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anth2000
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:37 pm    Post subject:

Needs to work on more than just shooting, folks.
Anyone can work on shooting.

He needs to work on the second hand he was born with that hasn’t figured out how to use yet.

Needs to work with Phil Handy or someone on increasing his very low basketball IQ also. He’s a little slow brained out there.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:39 pm    Post subject:

For me, money paid an athlete is a large part of the expectations. Any laker making less than $5 million, I really don't bag on, and this has been my view pretty much since the 1990's. Even guys like Fisher, Luke, Sasha, etc., a more modern example were AC or Kuzma. When you are getting paid $2 million or so a year, give or take, I'm pretty much happy with what we get, unless its some real bone-head mistake. So guys like Howard, Melo, Bazemore I really didn't worry at all about what we got from them, and two of the three I think actually played pretty well for what we paid them.

When guys are hurt, I largely give them a pass too. Dunn didn't play all year and we gave him that two year $5 million a year deal. Yeah that sucked, if he was 100% healthy, it might have made a 5-7 game difference in wins. Ad too, had another bad year with injuries - if he had been healthy, that alone, we are a playoff team. If nothing else, a healthy Dunn and Davis next year likely makes us a middle of the pack playoff team.

Westbrook made it, because despite playing like 78 games and not bad stats numbers, he way underperformed for a guy making north of $40 million a year. You put his playing stats on THT, and for that $9-10 million a year, I'd say he played pretty well. But no way on God's green earth did he play like a $40 million dollar player and his contract is pretty much toxic.

THT started hurt, but it just seemed like his whole offseason, he didn't try putting the basketball in the hoop, didn't develop any new skills, regressed as a player. He was virtually outplayed by the 4-15 players on the roster, all pretty much on minimum salary. He had as bad of a year on a new big contract any Laker has had maybe since Andrew Bynum or Vlade the Impaler. As a guard, I'd say his play was as bad as the worst years of Derek Fisher bad.

I think THT was so bad last year, the Lakers would probably have to attach a first round pick to get anybody to take him. He was so bad, I expect he will have to remain on the team this year. He should be staying after home games and helping pick up the trash or clear the parking lot, then we would be getting at least something for our money.
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anth2000
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:48 pm    Post subject:

waterman40 wrote:
For me, money paid an athlete is a large part of the expectations. Any laker making less than $5 million, I really don't bag on, and this has been my view pretty much since the 1990's. Even guys like Fisher, Luke, Sasha, etc., a more modern example were AC or Kuzma. When you are getting paid $2 million or so a year, give or take, I'm pretty much happy with what we get, unless its some real bone-head mistake. So guys like Howard, Melo, Bazemore I really didn't worry at all about what we got from them, and two of the three I think actually played pretty well for what we paid them.

When guys are hurt, I largely give them a pass too. Dunn didn't play all year and we gave him that two year $5 million a year deal. Yeah that sucked, if he was 100% healthy, it might have made a 5-7 game difference in wins. Ad too, had another bad year with injuries - if he had been healthy, that alone, we are a playoff team. If nothing else, a healthy Dunn and Davis next year likely makes us a middle of the pack playoff team.

Westbrook made it, because despite playing like 78 games and not bad stats numbers, he way underperformed for a guy making north of $40 million a year. You put his playing stats on THT, and for that $9-10 million a year, I'd say he played pretty well. But no way on God's green earth did he play like a $40 million dollar player and his contract is pretty much toxic.

THT started hurt, but it just seemed like his whole offseason, he didn't try putting the basketball in the hoop, didn't develop any new skills, regressed as a player. He was virtually outplayed by the 4-15 players on the roster, all pretty much on minimum salary. He had as bad of a year on a new big contract any Laker has had maybe since Andrew Bynum or Vlade the Impaler. As a guard, I'd say his play was as bad as the worst years of Derek Fisher bad.

I think THT was so bad last year, the Lakers would probably have to attach a first round pick to get anybody to take him. He was so bad, I expect he will have to remain on the team this year. He should be staying after home games and helping pick up the trash or clear the parking lot, then we would be getting at least something for our money.


Agree totally.
He was terrible 99.9% of the game.
He had that meaningless 40 point game and some here were taking about him like he’s a star. Those guys are obviously shortsighted and/or blind.
If he stays, he needs to spend a lot of time in the gym, starting last week.
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Laker_Jocker
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:28 pm    Post subject:

i know some would argue it wasn’t a binary choice but clearly a choice was made to invest in THT who had not shown his value over Caruso who HAD showed his value. That’s in direct conflict with logic considering the team was supposedly a championship contender…. (By the same token, would Lowry instead of WB for essentially the same assets saved this season and Frank’s job?)

Lakers have time and time again purchased talent at the expense of potential, why not with this guy? 40 point scrub game aside…what exactly is he good at?

My biggest gripe is no more half measures as represented in keeping THT……GSW, Nets, PHilly, Clips and even Phoenix is spending to have a chance…... Choice right now is mortgage the future to try and win now or just admit/commit to gutting the roster and starting over in 23-24.
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dabask11
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:38 am    Post subject:

That's why I'm not a believer THT will develop here.

If the lakers understood what THT needs to do in order to succeed with this team then they would have chosen Caruso over him.

Caruso already did all the things THT needs to develop for this team. It should have been an easy choice.

The lakers couldn't identify the 3-point shooting provided by Caruso. Do you expect me to have faith they'll turn THT into something he's never shown in his collegiate/professional career?

Look at BI and Zo after they left the lakers. Do you think the lakers will find a fred vinson to help with THT's shot? LOL, especially with this FO.
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ThePageDude
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:39 am    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
Needs to work on more than just shooting, folks.
Anyone can work on shooting.

He needs to work on the second hand he was born with that hasn’t figured out how to use yet.

Needs to work with Phil Handy or someone on increasing his very low basketball IQ also. He’s a little slow brained out there.


Of course. The point is after working on all his deficiencies he needs to show at least one this next season, be it shooting or midrange or handles, hopefully all -but all is unrealistic.
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Laker4lifer4real
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:51 am    Post subject:

https://apple.news/A0cmlKxItR9SyQQ-UrMUKBg
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:58 pm    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
Needs to work on more than just shooting, folks.
Anyone can work on shooting.

He needs to work on the second hand he was born with that hasn’t figured out how to use yet.

Needs to work with Phil Handy or someone on increasing his very low basketball IQ also. He’s a little slow brained out there.

And most importantly, his hair.
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epic_
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 9:48 pm    Post subject:

Year 4 at age 22 gotta be the year he breaks out right?

I always forget he's so young.
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cthroatgtr
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 3:11 pm    Post subject:

This is again about fit. He is best with the ball in his hands, which means he isn't going to play well with Lebron or Westbrook. Some of this is easy not sure why the team struggles so much to understand the basics of fit. If you don't trade for Russ, THT runs the second unit in a similar capacity.
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Laker4lifer4real
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 6:40 pm    Post subject:

Agree totally.
He was terrible 99.9% of the game.
He had that meaningless 40 point game and some here were taking about him like he’s a star. Those guys are obviously shortsighted and/or blind.
If he stays, he needs to spend a lot of time in the gym, starting last week.[/quote]

THT double digit point totals last season
17,28,25,12,12,10,11,19,13,14,10,19,21,13,11,20,14,17,16,18,15,20,12,11
40,15,10

27 out of his 60 games. The rest yeah, inconsistent. But to say he did nothing 99.9% of the game is such a weak analysis. That is a 16.5 ppg average in those 27 double digit game at 21. Easy to imagine he will improve.....and get more consistent.
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 6:47 pm    Post subject:

cthroatgtr wrote:
This is again about fit. He is best with the ball in his hands, which means he isn't going to play well with Lebron or Westbrook. Some of this is easy not sure why the team struggles so much to understand the basics of fit. If you don't trade for Russ, THT runs the second unit in a similar capacity.


That was meant for Nunn to do. But Nunn never played.
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Lakesh0wtime
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 9:19 pm    Post subject:

Laker4lifer4real wrote:
Agree totally.
He was terrible 99.9% of the game.
He had that meaningless 40 point game and some here were taking about him like he’s a star. Those guys are obviously shortsighted and/or blind.
If he stays, he needs to spend a lot of time in the gym, starting last week.


THT double digit point totals last season
17,28,25,12,12,10,11,19,13,14,10,19,21,13,11,20,14,17,16,18,15,20,12,11
40,15,10

27 out of his 60 games. The rest yeah, inconsistent. But to say he did nothing 99.9% of the game is such a weak analysis. That is a 16.5 ppg average in those 27 double digit game at 21. Easy to imagine he will improve.....and get more consistent.[/quote]

I think with a more consistent role and no Russ he’ll find consistency. He has a lot of work to do this summer though.

This year has to be the one he makes the leap.

We have limited options to better. Him improving would be a plus.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 6:10 am    Post subject:

Laker4lifer4real wrote:
Agree totally.
He was terrible 99.9% of the game.
He had that meaningless 40 point game and some here were taking about him like he’s a star. Those guys are obviously shortsighted and/or blind.
If he stays, he needs to spend a lot of time in the gym, starting last week.


THT double digit point totals last season
17,28,25,12,12,10,11,19,13,14,10,19,21,13,11,20,14,17,16,18,15,20,12,11
40,15,10

27 out of his 60 games. The rest yeah, inconsistent. But to say he did nothing 99.9% of the game is such a weak analysis. That is a 16.5 ppg average in those 27 double digit game at 21. Easy to imagine he will improve.....and get more consistent.[/quote]

Posting his double digit point games is also weak analysis though. How many turnovers did he have in those games? Whats his shooting %? Is it even league average? What about his defense?

The vast majority of nba players do not improve, especially in so many areas. THT improving would mean he might be league average next year in a few skills and he is so far behind the curve in almost every nba skill needed for a guard.
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 1:19 pm    Post subject:

Only way he makes the leap is if he has a coaching staff that empowers him. Kenny or Ham would be nice. Can't give up on a 21 year old, but I can't see him and Russ co-existing.
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Dennis100mtrash
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 7:57 am    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Only way he makes the leap is if he has a coaching staff that empowers him. Kenny or Ham would be nice. Can't give up on a 21 year old, but I can't see him and Russ co-existing.


We screwed if Russ is on the team next year
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Hanging from Rafters
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 9:52 am    Post subject:

I want to get rid of THT with Nunn and Westbrook plus 2027 and 29 FRPs in a three team deal with Charlotte and Indiana for Myles Turner, Kelly Oubre, Malcom Brogdon, and Terry Rozier. WB goes to Charlotte, Heild and Haywood swap teams and they each get one of our FRPs. THT and Nunn to the Pacers I guess but we’ll let them decide. Not particularly high on Rozier but we’re limited on the moves and over all I think we contend with those changes.

All that being said…THT imo will be a good player in the league. Remember how most gave up on Kuzma? trashed Ball?, teased Ingram as 1 for x-man? rejoiced with DLo trade? dismissed Clarkston due to defensive struggles? felt like we didn’t lose much recinding Randle? dumped Zubac? disregarded Thomas Bryant? threw away Hart in overpay for AD? (If we regarded him more imo could have not included in deal).

The point is…we can pick ‘em, we just don’t have the patience to let them develop and usually get rid of them and let some other team enjoy the gems we find. We find them, see their potential in the first year, suffer through their development as we sour on them the second year, and then get impatient and get rid of them to let some other team reap the benefits of our discovery and development sacrifice.

THT’s story with the Lakers will most likely be similar to the others. I expect him to prove his worth and develop into a useful player after he is gone.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 10:23 am    Post subject:

Hanging from Rafters wrote:
I want to get rid of THT with Nunn and Westbrook plus 2027 and 29 FRPs in a three team deal with Charlotte and Indiana for Myles Turner, Kelly Oubre, Malcom Brogdon, and Terry Rozier. WB goes to Charlotte, Heild and Haywood swap teams and they each get one of our FRPs. Not particularly high on Rozier but we’re limited on the moves and over all I think we contend with those changes.

All that being said…THT imo will be a good player in the league. Remember how most gave up on Kuzma? trashed Ball?, teased Ingram as 1 for x-man? rejoiced with DLo trade? dismissed Clarkston due to defensive struggles? felt like we didn’t lose much recinding Randle? dumped Zubac? disregarded Thomas Bryant? threw away Hart in overpay for AD? (If we regarded him more imo could have not included in deal).

The point is…we can pick ‘em, we just don’t have the patience to let them develop and usually get rid of them and let some other team enjoy the gems we find. We find them, see their potential in the first year, suffer through their development as we sour on them the second year, and then get impatient and get rid of them to let some other team reap the benefits of our discovery and development sacrifice.

THT’s story with the Lakers will most likely be similar to the others. I expect him to prove his worth and develop into a useful player after he is gone.


The one constant through all those decisions was the win now strategy with a Big 2 or Big3 running the team. There is no room for young player growth with a ball dominant leader who has no interest in developing young players.

Lakers chose the very path that ran those players off and playing the style they currently do.

IMO a big part of THTs issues this year was trying to be too much like Westbrook and to some extent James. He was too often out of control trying to emulate a style he is not ready for.

Have to wonder how he would do without WB whispering in his ear and was being developed in a more “share the ball” culture. A style that allows the game to come in the flow of a game.

I expected more development from THT by this point. To take on a bigger role and be more efficient. So far he has not. But neither has the team overall, not efficient or consistent was the theme this past season. Why should THT be any different.
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phantasyman
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 8:04 pm    Post subject:

THT gonna be an all star this season
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epic_
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 8:21 pm    Post subject:

phantasyman wrote:
THT gonna be an all star this season


I'd settle for 78 games played.
And 3rd in MIP voting.
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 8:36 pm    Post subject:

this bum better bring something next year. defense, rebounding, steals and staying active and Healthy on the floor. for what we paid him, he better not get fat over the summer and not train
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 4:09 am    Post subject:

cycl0nus wrote:
this bum better bring something next year. defense, rebounding, steals and staying active and Healthy on the floor. for what we paid him, he better not get fat over the summer and not train


We all expected that last season, with the contract. That's the main reason they missed the playoffs, IMO.
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 4:48 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
cycl0nus wrote:
this bum better bring something next year. defense, rebounding, steals and staying active and Healthy on the floor. for what we paid him, he better not get fat over the summer and not train


We all expected that last season, with the contract. That's the main reason they missed the playoffs, IMO.


Main reason? Not even close.

AD/LBJ injuries.

Russ trade.

Losing KCP.

Losing Kuz.

Losing AC.

Vogel struggling to coach a non-defensive personnel team.

Too many non-contributors on the bench.

Major blows.

THT? Would have been nice if he played better but not even in the top 7 reasons IMO that the Lakers played terribly last year.
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LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 5:32 am    Post subject:

Look at these playoffs, if you're not some crazy presence in the paint (Timelord), you better be able to space the floor for your stars.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 5:33 am    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
Look at these playoffs, if you're not some crazy presence in the paint (Timelord), you better be able to space the floor for your stars.


What really hurt THT's development was having to play alongside Russ. Absolutely the worst pairing you can imagine with those two as they can't space the floor.
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LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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