LG Myths busted so far . . .
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Dr. Laker
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:37 pm    Post subject: LG Myths busted so far . . .

1 - Rob Pelinka ignored the team's cap experts and messed up the AD trade when he should've made NO wait until July 30.

Clearly, he knew what he was doing as he freed up the necessary cap space for a max slot by June 30. Moreover, as the KL thing dragged on, it was clear that NO and ATL were willing to wait as long as the Lakers needed.

2 - But he gave up young assets in Mo Wagner, Isaac Bonga & Jermerrio Jones needlessly.

As the saying goes, those guys were all a year away from being a year away. Meanwhile, their roster spots have been filled by Troy Daniels, Quinn Cook and (possibly) Iggy - guys who can contribute NOW!

3 - He tossed Zubac away for nothing.

Zubac's roster spot is now occupied by DeMarcus Cousins. Hurt and rusty, DMC put up 16/8 with a TS of 56% and a PER of 21.4 and a DBPM of 3.4. In a similar sample size and minutes with the Clips, Zu put up 9/8 with a TS of 57%, PER of 18.9 and DBPM of 1.5. One legged DMC is better - at half the cost.

4 - "The Young Core!"

DLO - All Star . . . who the Nets were willing to let walk for nothing and will likely be dealt by the team that just got him.

Randle - cannot find a team to make a long term commitment to him.

[I will punt on BI/Zo/Hart until they have a chance to prove themselves]

5 - Jerry West/Ballmer are the ultimate closers

Yes, they got Kawhi . . . but couldn't sign him outright. They basically let him go find someone to play with him (and got rejected by Durant & Butler) before sending FOUR UNPROTECTED #1s, other picks, an All-Rookie PG and a solid player for fresh-off-of-two-shoulder-surgeries-Paul George.

6 - No one will come to the Lakers for crumbs.

DMC, Bradley, Daniels all came on discount deals.

7 - Jeanie won't spend money on analytics or state of the art training staff/scouting.

Since 2018: Kristen Andrews, Philip Chang, Nina Hsieh, Diana Ma, Mike Mancias, Nick Mazzella, Randy Mims, Gunnar Peterson, Marshall Rader, Stacey Robinson, Sam Usher, Adi Vase, Ron Weathers, Jordan Wilkes, Josh Wright, Moses Zapata and others have all been brought in to work in those areas.

8 - GMs and Agents hate Pelinka and won't deal with him.

AD trade, Mo/Bonga trade, Bradley/Boogie signings all prove that is false.

The naysayers are out like jackals . . . but there's a LOT more "right" with the Lakers now than there were 3 years ago.
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Last edited by Dr. Laker on Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:43 pm    Post subject: Re: LG Myths busted so far . . .

Dr. Laker wrote:
1 - Rob Pelinka ignored the team's cap experts and messed up the AD trade when he should've made NO wait until July 30.

Clearly, he knew what he was doing as he freed up the necessary cap space for a max slot by June 30. Moreover, as the KL thing dragged on, it was clear that NO and ATL were willing to wait as long as the Lakers needed.

2 - But he gave up young assets in Mo Wagner, Isaac Bonga & Jermerrio Jones needlessly.

As the saying goes, those guys were all a year away from being a year away. Meanwhile, their roster spots have been filled by Troy Daniels, Quinn Cook and (possibly) Iggy - guys who can contribute NOW!

3 - He tossed Zubac away for nothing.

Zubac's roster spot is now occupied by DeMarcus Cousins. Hurt and rusty, DMC put up 16/8 with a TS of 56% and a PER of 21.4 and a DBPM of 3.4. In a similar sample size and minutes with the Clips, Zu put up 9/8 with a TS of 57%, PER of 18.9 and DBPM of 1.5. One legged DMC is better - at half the cost.

4 - "The Young Core!"

DLO - All Star . . . who the Nets were willing to let walk for nothing and will likely be dealt by the team that just got him.

Randle - cannot find a team to make a long term commitment to him.

[I will punt on BI/Zo/Hart until they have a chance to prove themselves]

5 - Jerry West/Ballmer are the ultimate closers

Yes, they got Kawhi . . . but couldn't sign him outright. They basically let him go find someone to play with him (and got rejected by Durant & Butler) before sending FOUR UNPROTECTED #1s, other picks, an All-Rookie PG and a solid player for fresh-off-of-two-shoulder-surgeries-Paul George.

6 - No one will come to the Lakers for crumbs.

DMC, Bradley, Daniels all came on discount deals.

7 - Jeanie won't spend money on analytics or state of the art training staff/scouting.

Since 2018: Kristen Andrews, Philip Chang, Nina Hsieh, Diana Ma, Mike Mancias, Nick Mazzella, Randy Mims, Gunnar Peterson, Marshall Rader, Stacey Robinson, Sam Usher, Adi Vase, Ron Weathers, Jordan Wilkes, Josh Wright, Moses Zapata and others have all been brought in to work in those areas.

The naysayers are out like jackals . . . but there's a LOT more "right" with the Lakers now than there were 3 years ago.


I think you bring up some good points, but #5 screams viewing that through P&G glasses Give credit where it's due. Hell, it appears both LBJ and AD did as well. I have sincere doubts all that gets done by the Clippers if West is not there.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:47 pm    Post subject:

2 doctors walk into a thread...
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:48 pm    Post subject:

It's great to read some positive posts on LG. Lately, it seems like everyone just wants to (bleep) and complain about something or another. This team is set up to be in the best position to win in the post Kobe era

Thanks for posting, let's sit back and enjoy the lakeshow
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:48 pm    Post subject:

#7 - Training staff is a work in progress right now. Lakers hired Dr. Seto as the Director of Sports Performance. However, they still might need someone to fill in the role that Marco Nunez, head trainer (let go) had last year. Nina's the assistant trainer, though we'll see if they decide to promote her or keep her at her present position.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: LG Myths busted so far . . .

DrDent wrote:
I think you bring up some good points, but #5 screams viewing that through P&G glasses Give credit where it's due. Hell, it appears both LBJ and AD did as well. I have sincere doubts all that gets done by the Clippers if West is not there.


The Clips started the summer with cap space to acquire 2 max players outright. They did get the 2 max players, but basically sent out everything of value to do it. Yes, the same case can be made for the Lakers and AD - which is the point! Ballmer/West didn't work any special magic, they bent over and took it in the shorts. It was certainly the right call, but as was said about Pelinka, anyone in that position would have done it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:34 am    Post subject:

Forgot about #8 - just added it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: LG Myths busted so far . . .

Dr. Laker wrote:
DrDent wrote:
I think you bring up some good points, but #5 screams viewing that through P&G glasses Give credit where it's due. Hell, it appears both LBJ and AD did as well. I have sincere doubts all that gets done by the Clippers if West is not there.


The Clips started the summer with cap space to acquire 2 max players outright. They did get the 2 max players, but basically sent out everything of value to do it. Yes, the same case can be made for the Lakers and AD - which is the point! Ballmer/West didn't work any special magic, they bent over and took it in the shorts. It was certainly the right call, but as was said about Pelinka, anyone in that position would have done it.


Does Lawrence Frank ever get any credit, since he runs the show over there? West is a consultant.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:45 am    Post subject:

My only gripe with Pelinka right now is giving Rondo a roster spot and overpaying for KCP. Given the circumstances KL put on the franchise, for the most part he didn't blink and had contingency signings queued up and ready to execute.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: LG Myths busted so far . . .

Dr. Laker wrote:
DrDent wrote:
I think you bring up some good points, but #5 screams viewing that through P&G glasses Give credit where it's due. Hell, it appears both LBJ and AD did as well. I have sincere doubts all that gets done by the Clippers if West is not there.


The Clips started the summer with cap space to acquire 2 max players outright. They did get the 2 max players, but basically sent out everything of value to do it. Yes, the same case can be made for the Lakers and AD - which is the point! Ballmer/West didn't work any special magic, they bent over and took it in the shorts. It was certainly the right call, but as was said about Pelinka, anyone in that position would have done it.


No they didn't. They would have had to trade Gallo to have room for 2 max, and they did exactly that.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject:

i dislike this type of 'analysis', mainly because it's all hindsight. take the zubac deal, was that a good deal at the time or did it make any sense? if you had the foresight to say that boogie was going to take his spot, then good on you, but i'll call BS on it.

that was an awful decision at the time, don't play it off as anything other than that.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:58 am    Post subject:

HOF Rookie wrote:
i dislike this type of 'analysis', mainly because it's all hindsight. take the zubac deal, was that a good deal at the time or did it make any sense? if you had the foresight to say that boogie was going to take his spot, then good on you, but i'll call BS on it.

that was an awful decision at the time, don't play it off as anything other than that.


agree on Zubac deal. not sure why they did the trade especially his cap hold is way too low. he wouldnt have taken up anything from signing others.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:59 am    Post subject:

Although the true pessimists on LG can be difficult to read, it doesn’t mean the true optimists are correct either.

Not everything is rainbows and sunshine. Everything in moderation.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:01 am    Post subject:

from what i understand, every trade and signing until this year was all on magic. he wanted to trade zubac for muscala, he wanted lance, beasley, etc.

so, i'll judge Rob this summer forward. so far, he's doing a great job!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: LG Myths busted so far . . .

Dr. Laker wrote:

4 - "The Young Core!"

DLO - All Star . . . who the Nets were willing to let walk for nothing and will likely be dealt by the team that just got him.

Randle - cannot find a team to make a long term commitment to him.

[I will punt on BI/Zo/Hart until they have a chance to prove themselves]


Nets only let Dlo walk to get two top-15 players in the NBA. He still got a MAX deal. There were multiple teams angling to give him close to the max.

Randle just got a 3 year contract @ $20m+ a year. There max he could have gotten was 4 years.

Zubac just got 4 years/$28m


Remove the P&G shades.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: LG Myths busted so far . . .

Dr. Laker wrote:

The naysayers are out like jackals . . . but there's a LOT more "right" with the Lakers now than there were 3 years ago.

Agreed and good post/thread!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: LG Myths busted so far . . .

LakerMindLA wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:

4 - "The Young Core!"

DLO - All Star . . . who the Nets were willing to let walk for nothing and will likely be dealt by the team that just got him.

Randle - cannot find a team to make a long term commitment to him.

[I will punt on BI/Zo/Hart until they have a chance to prove themselves]


Nets only let Dlo walk to get two top-15 players in the NBA. He still got a MAX deal. There were multiple teams angling to give him close to the max.

Randle just got a 3 year contract @ $20m+ a year. There max he could have gotten was 4 years.

Zubac just got 4 years/$28m


Remove the P&G shades.


Larry Nance Jr $45m/4yr
Thomas Bryant $25m/3yr

On the flip side, they too expensive for us
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:30 am    Post subject:

most annoying thing last year were people foaming at the mouth over Randle and Dlo

If DLo is a stud, the nets don't let a 23 yo star walk out of the building. They did for a better point guard with zero questions asked. GSW will trade him next year, too. He's an inefficient chucker who can't get to the line or defend.

Randle is a stat padder on a crappy team, he'll do the same on the Knicks.

Both these guys will make a ton of money next year, so no longer can people point to "they're so inexpensive."

Nance and Clarkson. Won't even get into that, mediocrity, that' all.

So the new foaming of the mouth will be over Hart, Ingram and Ball. Ball can defend and pass and rebound, he just can't shoot, make layups or make FTs. Sounds like a future HOFer.

Ingram has talent, but last year he proved he can't play without the ball. He needs to pound the ball to create his own looks. He also can't shoot or make FTs consistently. He'll also be overpaid in 12 months.

Hart is a fungible 3 and D player who couldn't 3 or D last year.

All 3 of these guys were constantly hurt, Ingram and Ball for 2 years now.

So I laugh when I see how people say the Lakers gave up on a dynasty.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: LG Myths busted so far . . .

LakerMindLA wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:

4 - "The Young Core!"

DLO - All Star . . . who the Nets were willing to let walk for nothing and will likely be dealt by the team that just got him.

Randle - cannot find a team to make a long term commitment to him.

[I will punt on BI/Zo/Hart until they have a chance to prove themselves]


Nets only let Dlo walk to get two top-15 players in the NBA. He still got a MAX deal. There were multiple teams angling to give him close to the max.

Randle just got a 3 year contract @ $20m+ a year. There max he could have gotten was 4 years.

Zubac just got 4 years/$28m


Remove the P&G shades.


DLO was let go so the Nets could pay 4-years-older Kyrie Irving $60 million dollars more.

Randle went to the only team that would pay him. His hometown Mavs had the money and the open position, but they paid alleged-rapist-who-hasn't-played-in-a-year-and-a-half Porzingis and dumped on JR, who is now on his 3rd team in 3 seasons.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: LG Myths busted so far . . .

Dr. Laker wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:

4 - "The Young Core!"

DLO - All Star . . . who the Nets were willing to let walk for nothing and will likely be dealt by the team that just got him.

Randle - cannot find a team to make a long term commitment to him.

[I will punt on BI/Zo/Hart until they have a chance to prove themselves]


Nets only let Dlo walk to get two top-15 players in the NBA. He still got a MAX deal. There were multiple teams angling to give him close to the max.

Randle just got a 3 year contract @ $20m+ a year. There max he could have gotten was 4 years.

Zubac just got 4 years/$28m


Remove the P&G shades.


DLO was let go so the Nets could pay 4-years-older Kyrie Irving $60 million dollars more.

Randle went to the only team that would pay him. His hometown Mavs had the money and the open position, but they paid alleged-rapist-who-hasn't-played-in-a-year-and-a-half Porzingis and dumped on JR, who is now on his 3rd team in 3 seasons.


Thank God those salaries are on someone else's books and not ours.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: LG Myths busted so far . . .

LakerMindLA wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:

4 - "The Young Core!"

DLO - All Star . . . who the Nets were willing to let walk for nothing and will likely be dealt by the team that just got him.

Randle - cannot find a team to make a long term commitment to him.

[I will punt on BI/Zo/Hart until they have a chance to prove themselves]


Nets only let Dlo walk to get two top-15 players in the NBA. He still got a MAX deal. There were multiple teams angling to give him close to the max.

Randle just got a 3 year contract @ $20m+ a year. There max he could have gotten was 4 years.

Zubac just got 4 years/$28m


Remove the P&G shades.

What do you think we moved him for?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: LG Myths busted so far . . .

Dr. Laker wrote:
1 - Rob Pelinka ignored the team's cap experts and messed up the AD trade when he should've made NO wait until July 30.

Clearly, he knew what he was doing as he freed up the necessary cap space for a max slot by June 30. Moreover, as the KL thing dragged on, it was clear that NO and ATL were willing to wait as long as the Lakers needed.

2 - But he gave up young assets in Mo Wagner, Isaac Bonga & Jermerrio Jones needlessly.

As the saying goes, those guys were all a year away from being a year away. Meanwhile, their roster spots have been filled by Troy Daniels, Quinn Cook and (possibly) Iggy - guys who can contribute NOW!

3 - He tossed Zubac away for nothing.

Zubac's roster spot is now occupied by DeMarcus Cousins. Hurt and rusty, DMC put up 16/8 with a TS of 56% and a PER of 21.4 and a DBPM of 3.4. In a similar sample size and minutes with the Clips, Zu put up 9/8 with a TS of 57%, PER of 18.9 and DBPM of 1.5. One legged DMC is better - at half the cost.

4 - "The Young Core!"

DLO - All Star . . . who the Nets were willing to let walk for nothing and will likely be dealt by the team that just got him.

Randle - cannot find a team to make a long term commitment to him.

[I will punt on BI/Zo/Hart until they have a chance to prove themselves]

5 - Jerry West/Ballmer are the ultimate closers

Yes, they got Kawhi . . . but couldn't sign him outright. They basically let him go find someone to play with him (and got rejected by Durant & Butler) before sending FOUR UNPROTECTED #1s, other picks, an All-Rookie PG and a solid player for fresh-off-of-two-shoulder-surgeries-Paul George.

6 - No one will come to the Lakers for crumbs.

DMC, Bradley, Daniels all came on discount deals.

7 - Jeanie won't spend money on analytics or state of the art training staff/scouting.

Since 2018: Kristen Andrews, Philip Chang, Nina Hsieh, Diana Ma, Mike Mancias, Nick Mazzella, Randy Mims, Gunnar Peterson, Marshall Rader, Stacey Robinson, Sam Usher, Adi Vase, Ron Weathers, Jordan Wilkes, Josh Wright, Moses Zapata and others have all been brought in to work in those areas.

8 - GMs and Agents hate Pelinka and won't deal with him.

AD trade, Mo/Bonga trade, Bradley/Boogie signings all prove that is false.

The naysayers are out like jackals . . . but there's a LOT more "right" with the Lakers now than there were 3 years ago.


I can appreciate the optimism (thanks for that by the way, too much complaining) but honestly:

1 - UNCLEAR - I maintained a spreadsheet thoroughout and based on history for other teams' history of getting superstars, could see the max path. It was an unsavory path, so the uncertainty about how (the order/timing) is understandable and probably why people pounced on it as a "rookie" mistake and maybe some of it was. Objectively, RP appears to have been averagely competent in this area nothing more. Arguing over what assets it took to get completed is moot since they all needed to go under a 3rd max star plan. (<-not saying I agree with that philosophy but it clearly was what the Lakers had decided with KL/Kyrie still in play at the time)

2 - MYTH BUSTED. See #1 - the path to 3 max HAD TO be the entire roster AND NONE of these players is irreplaceable. Hindsight shows them to have been upgraded.

3 - NOT BUSTED RP/Magic did toss away Zubac for nothing, including the extremely valuable bird rights with him. VLF is correct when saying the FO doesn't understand asset management to have flexibility in future moves. The Zubac move was short-sighted and most likely a byproduct of Magic (he as much as said so on ESPN) to cover earlier roster mistakes of no shooting. Muscala was clearly not going to be the difference at that point. I believe it did yield a TE but I hightly doubt 1.5M helps at all in 2019-2020. The patience with asset movement seems to be better post Magic, but that particular trade was an NBA2K move just for the sake of doing something. Comparing the player contributions irrelevant - this trade was unwise.

4 - MYTH BUSTED The young core, DLO, Randle. It comes down to the plague that haunts the league. Under the current structure, teams really have no hope of winning (consistantly) with only 1 superstar and developed youth - especially in the West. This is 100% a parity/league operation problem. If your team is in the West and you only have 1 superstar, there really is only one path - "super-teaming". So, although I hate that this is true, if you can pair 2-3 top 10 players, you are not doing your job unless you try - even if the cost is every "non-superstar" on your roster. Shouldn't fault the Clippers, Warriors, NJ nor Lakers GMs in that area - You should fault the league for not structuring the rules so it is not SO driven by the top 10-20 players teaming up on only 5-6 (major market) teams. You could also thank KG/LBJ for setting that precedent many years ago. It was laughable, but at one point just prior to the trade, the Heat had only 1 player under contract. It would be a much better product if teams were forced by the rules to manage all their contracts fairly based on ability/merit and prevented from having more than 1 maximum player. Maybe like a franchise tag or something....

5 - MYTH BUSTED See #4 above. They (and RP) did their job nothing more, nothing less. You gotta pair if you can based on the current structure. Unfortunately, in this unhealthy NBA structure, draft picks do not hold enough importance to prevent teams from mortgaging their future. On it's face, any trade consisting of 1 asset/contract for 7 assets/contracts should never happen. But, again unfortunately, this sort of gambling with contacts thing has been going on forever:
"... for draft considerations and the contracts of Keith Van Horn and Aaron McKie" https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2781927-ranking-the-worst-contracts-in-nba-free-agency-history#slide1[/i]

6 - MYTH BUSTED See #5 above. I think this is indeed a myth as players are people. It is possible they would or would not play for a particular team based on preference - especially when it comes to polarizing ones like BOS and LAL. What I always find comical is that fans who have no knowledge of the discussions, feel free to have an opinion on what should or should not have happened with THEIR money. Really easy to cast judgement outside of that knowledge and/or after the fact.

7 - NOT BUSTED To be fair Lakers appear to be very late adopters at best. Hard to defend them having a coherent plan in these areas based on facts watching the product over the last 7 years.

8 - NOT BUSTED RP has history with many teams and they probably don't particularly "like" him. I do agree that doesn't mean he cannot do his job competantly. Based on what has been reported to date and common sense, it is likely that he does still need to establish himself as an honest negotiator and improve relationships amongst his peers though. At the moment, I am sure that it is much easier for JW to negotiate than RP in general.

I am cautiously hopeful this all works out. AD stays and LBJ retires gracefully without the cupboard being bare. If the Lakers can get in the finals in the process, that would be icing on the cake!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject:

HOF Rookie wrote:
i dislike this type of 'analysis', mainly because it's all hindsight. take the zubac deal, was that a good deal at the time or did it make any sense? if you had the foresight to say that boogie was going to take his spot, then good on you, but i'll call BS on it.

that was an awful decision at the time, don't play it off as anything other than that.



Give the OP some credit. It's a different post, that's fun, and has some thought put into it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject:

I can't tell if this is a joke, or the poster actually believes these claims?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:10 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
2 doctors walk into a thread...


LOL! Let me help you finish it.

2 doctors walk into a thread...

But LG'ers didn't know what to do with a paradox.
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