NBA Season COVID-19 Thread (**No politics or racial/ethnic remarks or personal insults**)
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kwase
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:20 pm    Post subject:

I haven't been on this site for awhile, but I'd like to ask a favor for those worried about what's in the vaccine and refuse to take it. The food we eat in this country is loaded with hormones, steroids, pesticides and many other poisons. A potato should not be the size of a melon. Chicken legs should not be the size of turkey legs. A dozen eggs should not be the same color. There's no such thing as seedless fruit. America is #5 in cancer and #1 in obesity. Those of us up in age who remember how an apple pie tasted when we were kids should know that the food now tastes horrible. Can those of you who are obviously very careful about what you put in your body please start a petition and write your local congressperson to stop killing us and do a full scale investigation into the garbage that we are eating every day. As someone who travels abroad often I promise you that the food in this country is nothing short of disgusting. I see a lot of people out there who are against the vaccine because they believe it will do them harm, but I don't hear anybody taking a stand against the well known poison that's in our food, making us obese and sick, dependent on prescription medicine and sending us to an early grave.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:25 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
32 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
32 wrote:
Pfizer's CEO says he didn't want to cut in line and that's why he waited to get the vaccine. It had nothing to do with him not having faith in his company's vaccine. He was fully vaccinated in March of this year.


yes i remembered that and the media attention it garnered.

how noble of him.
he abstained from taking the life saving vaccine after it was tested in tens of thousands of people


Now that he took the vaccine everything is fine right? No more excuses to get the vaccine.


i presume so, as the Short Term problems of the mrna vaccines have been amazingly minimal.

lets hope it stays that way long term.
and that is coming from one lab rat to another lab rat!

actually i had my second dose of pfizer end of aug, 42 days after the 1st shot.
i got the vaccine mostly because i have elderly parents.
if not, i would have waited until the protein vaccine gets proven out early next year.

i willingly took the vaccine because of family, but it does not mean i am not pissed at the fda and big pharma for subjecting the world to unnecessary risks.
god forbid, let there be no long term problems.


Please stop. You made your point. Dying of COVID is the biggest ultimate risk. The vaccines are safe. Go worry about them in private. Mostly what you've done here is strongly and repeatedly express your opinion with no substantial links to back up your opinion. Unless you're an expert in the field, we don't need you to continue to act as if you are and muddy the waters for anyone who is considering taking the vaccine and could be dissuaded by your assertive opinion masquerading as fact. This is primarily the COVID thread as it relates to the NBA, so lets get back to that and move on. Thanks.


I think that once one loses a good friend to COVID because they trusted God more than the vaccine, their views on the vaccines will change. I know that the family of the man who passed away did and all are now vaccinated.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:37 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
I haven't been on this site for awhile, but I'd like to ask a favor for those worried about what's in the vaccine and refuse to take it. The food we eat in this country is loaded with hormones, steroids, pesticides and many other poisons. A potato should not be the size of a melon. Chicken legs should not be the size of turkey legs. A dozen eggs should not be the same color. There's no such thing as seedless fruit. America is #5 in cancer and #1 in obesity. Those of us up in age who remember how an apple pie tasted when we were kids should know that the food now tastes horrible. Can those of you who are obviously very careful about what you put in your body please start a petition and write your local congressperson to stop killing us and do a full scale investigation into the garbage that we are eating every day. As someone who travels abroad often I promise you that the food in this country is nothing short of disgusting. I see a lot of people out there who are against the vaccine because they believe it will do them harm, but I don't hear anybody taking a stand against the well known poison that's in our food, making us obese and sick, dependent on prescription medicine and sending us to an early grave.


i think it is hopeless here
i am not sure whether there are now better standards for organic foods.
if you want safe, you probably need to grow your own food/animals and raise your own fish in stainless tanks.

it was not funny when i found partially hydrogenated oils in every brand of ice cream that i checked.

i would like to know where you are talking about.
for seafood, i read that the mediterrean and the baltic are filthy.
farm raised fish are eating scary stuff.
even before covid, i stopped eating shrimp in restaurants because so much shrimp is now raised in india and vietnam - no thanks
i am not even going to comment on the ocean near china
not sure about south america, but you have australia left.
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hype
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:32 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
kwase wrote:
I haven't been on this site for awhile, but I'd like to ask a favor for those worried about what's in the vaccine and refuse to take it. The food we eat in this country is loaded with hormones, steroids, pesticides and many other poisons. A potato should not be the size of a melon. Chicken legs should not be the size of turkey legs. A dozen eggs should not be the same color. There's no such thing as seedless fruit. America is #5 in cancer and #1 in obesity. Those of us up in age who remember how an apple pie tasted when we were kids should know that the food now tastes horrible. Can those of you who are obviously very careful about what you put in your body please start a petition and write your local congressperson to stop killing us and do a full scale investigation into the garbage that we are eating every day. As someone who travels abroad often I promise you that the food in this country is nothing short of disgusting. I see a lot of people out there who are against the vaccine because they believe it will do them harm, but I don't hear anybody taking a stand against the well known poison that's in our food, making us obese and sick, dependent on prescription medicine and sending us to an early grave.


i think it is hopeless here
i am not sure whether there are now better standards for organic foods.
if you want safe, you probably need to grow your own food/animals and raise your own fish in stainless tanks.

it was not funny when i found partially hydrogenated oils in every brand of ice cream that i checked.

i would like to know where you are talking about.
for seafood, i read that the mediterrean and the baltic are filthy.
farm raised fish are eating scary stuff.
even before covid, i stopped eating shrimp in restaurants because so much shrimp is now raised in india and vietnam - no thanks
i am not even going to comment on the ocean near china
not sure about south america, but you have australia left.


tbh the whole "organic" sticker on food has become nothing more then a gimmick to trick people into thinking it's more "healthy" when it's hardly even the truth much of the time sadly.

I agree with everything you said though, it's nothing but facts.. A few years ago I started making some significant changes in my diet and it's amazing how the few smallish health problems I had are gone. Anytime I attempt to eat lowgrade fast food now it makes me sick to my stomach.

I def. need to grow more of my own veggies and fruit along with buying meat from locals since I live in a good area to do so. I'm far from having a perfect diet and can still see massive positive changes. I was out of shape for probably 2 years before I made these changes and it was the only time in my life I was and no way in hell will I go back to that.

It's sad how most people say it's "too difficult" or "too expensive" to eat healthy. That's nothing but a horrible convenient excuse that is not true at all. It's not even that cheap to eat at fast food places anymore.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:13 pm    Post subject:

hype wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
kwase wrote:
I haven't been on this site for awhile, but I'd like to ask a favor for those worried about what's in the vaccine and refuse to take it. The food we eat in this country is loaded with hormones, steroids, pesticides and many other poisons. A potato should not be the size of a melon. Chicken legs should not be the size of turkey legs. A dozen eggs should not be the same color. There's no such thing as seedless fruit. America is #5 in cancer and #1 in obesity. Those of us up in age who remember how an apple pie tasted when we were kids should know that the food now tastes horrible. Can those of you who are obviously very careful about what you put in your body please start a petition and write your local congressperson to stop killing us and do a full scale investigation into the garbage that we are eating every day. As someone who travels abroad often I promise you that the food in this country is nothing short of disgusting. I see a lot of people out there who are against the vaccine because they believe it will do them harm, but I don't hear anybody taking a stand against the well known poison that's in our food, making us obese and sick, dependent on prescription medicine and sending us to an early grave.


i think it is hopeless here
i am not sure whether there are now better standards for organic foods.
if you want safe, you probably need to grow your own food/animals and raise your own fish in stainless tanks.

it was not funny when i found partially hydrogenated oils in every brand of ice cream that i checked.

i would like to know where you are talking about.
for seafood, i read that the mediterrean and the baltic are filthy.
farm raised fish are eating scary stuff.
even before covid, i stopped eating shrimp in restaurants because so much shrimp is now raised in india and vietnam - no thanks
i am not even going to comment on the ocean near china
not sure about south america, but you have australia left.


tbh the whole "organic" sticker on food has become nothing more then a gimmick to trick people into thinking it's more "healthy" when it's hardly even the truth much of the time sadly.

I agree with everything you said though, it's nothing but facts.. A few years ago I started making some significant changes in my diet and it's amazing how the few smallish health problems I had are gone. Anytime I attempt to eat lowgrade fast food now it makes me sick to my stomach.

I def. need to grow more of my own veggies and fruit along with buying meat from locals since I live in a good area to do so. I'm far from having a perfect diet and can still see massive positive changes. I was out of shape for probably 2 years before I made these changes and it was the only time in my life I was and no way in hell will I go back to that.

It's sad how most people say it's "too difficult" or "too expensive" to eat healthy. That's nothing but a horrible convenient excuse that is not true at all. It's not even that cheap to eat at fast food places anymore.


this is what i do:
1. never buy grounded meat from stores other than stores that grind it in front of me
2. never buy shrimp unless it is wild caught and never buy shrimp from restaurants
3. never buy seafood imported from asia
4. grass fed beef
5. hormone free chicken though not sure how safe chicken is
6. wild caught rock fish or frozen alaskan cod
7. never fresh water fish like tilapia
8. have a few fruit trees
9. actually wash fruits in soap even before covid for pesticides etc

unfortunately no good sources for vege
if i had more time, i would grow it

i did eat sometimes at in-n-out before covid, but now never
i never did eat at mcdonald much, but the mcdonald pink slime made me stop going all together
not sure if this is true that pink slime beef is back at mcdonald -
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:04 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
hype wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
kwase wrote:
I haven't been on this site for awhile, but I'd like to ask a favor for those worried about what's in the vaccine and refuse to take it. The food we eat in this country is loaded with hormones, steroids, pesticides and many other poisons. A potato should not be the size of a melon. Chicken legs should not be the size of turkey legs. A dozen eggs should not be the same color. There's no such thing as seedless fruit. America is #5 in cancer and #1 in obesity. Those of us up in age who remember how an apple pie tasted when we were kids should know that the food now tastes horrible. Can those of you who are obviously very careful about what you put in your body please start a petition and write your local congressperson to stop killing us and do a full scale investigation into the garbage that we are eating every day. As someone who travels abroad often I promise you that the food in this country is nothing short of disgusting. I see a lot of people out there who are against the vaccine because they believe it will do them harm, but I don't hear anybody taking a stand against the well known poison that's in our food, making us obese and sick, dependent on prescription medicine and sending us to an early grave.


i think it is hopeless here
i am not sure whether there are now better standards for organic foods.
if you want safe, you probably need to grow your own food/animals and raise your own fish in stainless tanks.

it was not funny when i found partially hydrogenated oils in every brand of ice cream that i checked.

i would like to know where you are talking about.
for seafood, i read that the mediterrean and the baltic are filthy.
farm raised fish are eating scary stuff.
even before covid, i stopped eating shrimp in restaurants because so much shrimp is now raised in india and vietnam - no thanks
i am not even going to comment on the ocean near china
not sure about south america, but you have australia left.


tbh the whole "organic" sticker on food has become nothing more then a gimmick to trick people into thinking it's more "healthy" when it's hardly even the truth much of the time sadly.

I agree with everything you said though, it's nothing but facts.. A few years ago I started making some significant changes in my diet and it's amazing how the few smallish health problems I had are gone. Anytime I attempt to eat lowgrade fast food now it makes me sick to my stomach.

I def. need to grow more of my own veggies and fruit along with buying meat from locals since I live in a good area to do so. I'm far from having a perfect diet and can still see massive positive changes. I was out of shape for probably 2 years before I made these changes and it was the only time in my life I was and no way in hell will I go back to that.

It's sad how most people say it's "too difficult" or "too expensive" to eat healthy. That's nothing but a horrible convenient excuse that is not true at all. It's not even that cheap to eat at fast food places anymore.


this is what i do:
1. never buy grounded meat from stores other than stores that grind it in front of me
2. never buy shrimp unless it is wild caught and never buy shrimp from restaurants
3. never buy seafood imported from asia
4. grass fed beef
5. hormone free chicken though not sure how safe chicken is
6. wild caught rock fish or frozen alaskan cod
7. never fresh water fish like tilapia
8. have a few fruit trees
9. actually wash fruits in soap even before covid for pesticides etc

unfortunately no good sources for vege
if i had more time, i would grow it

i did eat sometimes at in-n-out before covid, but now never
i never did eat at mcdonald much, but the mcdonald pink slime made me stop going all together
not sure if this is true that pink slime beef is back at mcdonald -


Jaysis f'en C this sounds miserable.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:35 am    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:


Please stop. You made your point. Dying of COVID is the biggest ultimate risk. The vaccines are safe. Go worry about them in private. Mostly what you've done here is strongly and repeatedly express your opinion with no substantial links to back up your opinion. Unless you're an expert in the field, we don't need you to continue to act as if you are and muddy the waters for anyone who is considering taking the vaccine and could be dissuaded by your assertive opinion masquerading as fact. This is primarily the COVID thread as it relates to the NBA, so lets get back to that and move on. Thanks.


short term effects of these covid vaccines have been very very minimal.

while i only develop PPE, many of my friends run clinical trials for a living.
this is one of many website for finding clinical trials: https://www.clinicaltrialsandme.com/resources/how-long-do-clinical-trials-take/

as stated for just the phase 3 duration of trials: "The length of study for phase 3 clinical trials is usually 1 to 4 years. This phase involves 300 to 3,000 patients, with tests designed to determine the drug's longer-term effects."

any idiot can see the numbers are much larger and duration is much shorter.
i see no need to say any more.


What part of "stop" from a moderator didn't you understand? Take a break.
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GameCock-MD
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:51 am    Post subject:

The Vaccine has now been given to BILLIONS of people.


Anyone who needs more proof it's safe is just hoping they were right and looking for some reason other people are wrong.


Any NBA player who refuses to get vaccinated should attempt to get another job with the skills they have making the same amount of money.


The NBA is a BUSINESS. They have a right to protect their business and their employees.
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kwase
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:08 am    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
kwase wrote:
I haven't been on this site for awhile, but I'd like to ask a favor for those worried about what's in the vaccine and refuse to take it. The food we eat in this country is loaded with hormones, steroids, pesticides and many other poisons. A potato should not be the size of a melon. Chicken legs should not be the size of turkey legs. A dozen eggs should not be the same color. There's no such thing as seedless fruit. America is #5 in cancer and #1 in obesity. Those of us up in age who remember how an apple pie tasted when we were kids should know that the food now tastes horrible. Can those of you who are obviously very careful about what you put in your body please start a petition and write your local congressperson to stop killing us and do a full scale investigation into the garbage that we are eating every day. As someone who travels abroad often I promise you that the food in this country is nothing short of disgusting. I see a lot of people out there who are against the vaccine because they believe it will do them harm, but I don't hear anybody taking a stand against the well known poison that's in our food, making us obese and sick, dependent on prescription medicine and sending us to an early grave.


i think it is hopeless here
i am not sure whether there are now better standards for organic foods.
if you want safe, you probably need to grow your own food/animals and raise your own fish in stainless tanks.

it was not funny when i found partially hydrogenated oils in every brand of ice cream that i checked.

i would like to know where you are talking about.
for seafood, i read that the mediterrean and the baltic are filthy.
farm raised fish are eating scary stuff.
even before covid, i stopped eating shrimp in restaurants because so much shrimp is now raised in india and vietnam - no thanks
i am not even going to comment on the ocean near china
not sure about south america, but you have australia left.



The freshest and best food I've experienced was in Thailand and the Caribbean. The fruit, chicken and seafood in the Caribbean is amazing. The Thai people are very particular about food being fresh. They will stay up all night to prepare what they will sell the next day and everything is from local farms. I always get sick when returning from those places and eating the food from here for the first week or so. I'm planning to retire in Thailand and I'm pretty sure it will add a few extra years to my life just on the food alone compared to what I'd be eating here. There's a reason Asian people are known for having amazing skin and a youthful appearance. It's also very warm there, which causes your skin to remove toxins through sweat.


My main reason for writing that post was I saw a guy give an interview on YouTube telling people not to trust the vaccine while he was smoking a cigarette. If you're a health nut, vegan and exercise daily I can see why you'd be concerned about what's in your body. But if you drink, smoke, eat fast food and don't workout then I don't get what you're worried about because those things will kill you a lot quicker than a vaccine.
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gng930
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:09 am    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:


i dont trust the fda or the public health people or big pharma
i think big pharma forced their experimental technologies for the vaccine when there were more well proven options with long term effects pretty well understood.

...

short term effects of these covid vaccines have been very very minimal.

while i only develop PPE, many of my friends run clinical trials for a living.
this is one of many website for finding clinical trials: https://www.clinicaltrialsandme.com/resources/how-long-do-clinical-trials-take/

as stated for just the phase 3 duration of trials: "The length of study for phase 3 clinical trials is usually 1 to 4 years. This phase involves 300 to 3,000 patients, with tests designed to determine the drug's longer-term effects."

any idiot can see the numbers are much larger and duration is much shorter.
i see no need to say any more.


From what I understand mRNA vaccines can be produced much more quickly and that was the driving force for the decision to incorporate into the COVID vaccine and also for its research funding as a whole for well over a decade

Obviously there's no long-term safety data yet on the COVID vaccine but mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans for longer:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)31665-3/fulltext

It was only a phase I trial and probably never went past that because there simply isn't huge demand for another rabies vaccine.

Based on your other practices and arguments, you obviously play things safe and require a high burden of proof to support your decisions (probably appropriate for someone who develops PPE). I think the danger is when that turns into paranoia. Your accusation towards the Pfizer CEO pretty much says it all. Many could argue the CEO would be maligned for cutting the line and it was a PR move. Neither could ever be fully substantiated; the difference is that one of those does not contribute to disinformation that puts public health at risk. You painted it as a refusal when it wasn't even suggested that way in your very own link and when presented with evidence to the contrary, you followed-up with a claim (he was waiting to see how others reacted to the vaccine) that really can't be disproven. That in a nutshell has been the flow of many anti-vax arguments.

You could spin it as that we are taking part in the largest clinical trial in history for a vaccine. I could counterargue that we would otherwise be part of the largest observational study in history on the virulence and long-term effects of COVID. Although there are still unknowns about both, I think there is more overwhelmingly dangerous evidence for one over the other so far. I could state that by contributing to the withholding of treatment what you are doing is a larger-scale version of the Tuskegee experiment. See how it easy it is to invoke a completely baseless and sensationalist spin?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:35 pm    Post subject:

And this is why we don't tolerate anti-vaxx gaslighting bull-(bleep) on this site.

NYT: U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Surpasses 700,000 Despite Wide Availability of Vaccines

Quote:
The United States surpassed 700,000 deaths from the coronavirus on Friday, a milestone that few experts had anticipated months ago when vaccines became widely available to the American public.

An overwhelming majority of Americans who have died in recent months, a period in which the country has offered broad access to shots, were unvaccinated. The United States has had one of the highest recent death rates of any country with an ample supply of vaccines.

The new and alarming surge of deaths this summer means that the coronavirus pandemic has become the deadliest in American history, overtaking the toll from the influenza pandemic of 1918 and 1919, which killed about 675,000 people.

“This Delta wave just rips through the unvaccinated,” said Howard Markel, a medical historian at the University of Michigan. The deaths that have followed the wide availability of vaccines, he added, are “absolutely needless.”


Quote:
The recent virus deaths are distinct from those in previous chapters of the pandemic, an analysis by The New York Times shows. People who died in the last three and a half months were concentrated in the South, a region that has lagged in vaccinations; many of the deaths were reported in Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana and Arkansas. And those who died were younger: In August, every age group under 55 had its highest death toll of the pandemic.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:32 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

I think that once one loses a good friend to COVID because they trusted God more than the vaccine, their views on the vaccines will change.


I never thought I'd say this to you but you are markedly underestimating the capacity for human stupidity/denial. I have experienced this firsthand.
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lar9149
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:52 pm    Post subject:

gng930 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:


i dont trust the fda or the public health people or big pharma
i think big pharma forced their experimental technologies for the vaccine when there were more well proven options with long term effects pretty well understood.

...

short term effects of these covid vaccines have been very very minimal.

while i only develop PPE, many of my friends run clinical trials for a living.
this is one of many website for finding clinical trials: https://www.clinicaltrialsandme.com/resources/how-long-do-clinical-trials-take/

as stated for just the phase 3 duration of trials: "The length of study for phase 3 clinical trials is usually 1 to 4 years. This phase involves 300 to 3,000 patients, with tests designed to determine the drug's longer-term effects."

any idiot can see the numbers are much larger and duration is much shorter.
i see no need to say any more.


From what I understand mRNA vaccines can be produced much more quickly and that was the driving force for the decision to incorporate into the COVID vaccine and also for its research funding as a whole for well over a decade

Obviously there's no long-term safety data yet on the COVID vaccine but mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans for longer:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)31665-3/fulltext

It was only a phase I trial and probably never went past that because there simply isn't huge demand for another rabies vaccine.

Based on your other practices and arguments, you obviously play things safe and require a high burden of proof to support your decisions (probably appropriate for someone who develops PPE). I think the danger is when that turns into paranoia. Your accusation towards the Pfizer CEO pretty much says it all. Many could argue the CEO would be maligned for cutting the line and it was a PR move. Neither could ever be fully substantiated; the difference is that one of those does not contribute to disinformation that puts public health at risk. You painted it as a refusal when it wasn't even suggested that way in your very own link and when presented with evidence to the contrary, you followed-up with a claim (he was waiting to see how others reacted to the vaccine) that really can't be disproven. That in a nutshell has been the flow of many anti-vax arguments.

You could spin it as that we are taking part in the largest clinical trial in history for a vaccine. I could counterargue that we would otherwise be part of the largest observational study in history on the virulence and long-term effects of COVID. Although there are still unknowns about both, I think there is more overwhelmingly dangerous evidence for one over the other so far. I could state that by contributing to the withholding of treatment what you are doing is a larger-scale version of the Tuskegee experiment. See how it easy it is to invoke a completely baseless and sensationalist spin?


You are right there is no long-term safety data on COVID vaccines. Vaccines however have been in existence over 100 years since the small pox vaccine around 1907. And by the time a child is 5 years old they already receive a lot of vaccines and we as children had the same vaccines.

With all these millions upon millions vaccines used, scientists have not seen long-term effects that would concern safety. But how does that apply to the COVID vaccine?

Vaccine overall designs are similar..you take the virus as a whole, weaken or inactivate it, or just take a part of the virus and inject it into a person so they receive immunity without actually getting the virus. Therefore, if designs are similar, you can apply the logic that vaccines don't have direct long-term effects to the COVID vaccines. Thus, the FDA doesn't find out necessary to wait a long period for approve the COVID vaccine for emergency use.

It is true that the FDA generally is more strict on trials and, thus, some use that as a reason that this vaccine is an "experimental" because it was approved faster than other vaccines..but you have to understand the FDA has sort an "OCD" like behavior to approvals and is likely "overstrict." When compared to the EUA (which approves medications for Europe), medications in general are much more costly and take much longer to get approvals in the USA. In cases where a medication is similar to previous ones, less data in the EUA is required (like in the case of the COVID vaccine) and this would be a more logical approach. The "OCD" behavior of the FDA is likely due to when the FDA approved Vioxx (a medications used for back pain and stomaches) tthat killed about 1/25,000 people and the medication was pulled off the market. Since than, it has the FDA has been much more strict.

For instance, in the last decade you know how many dry eye medications for prescription were approved for the FDA? 2, restasis and Xiidra. This is because the FDA requires any dry eye medication to improve both the patients symptoms and dry eyes test, which is very very difficult. And that is just for dry eyes.

The FDA uses an approach where every drug/device has to be tested like its "the first time" even when similar drugs/device been used with a lots and lots of data has (there are exceptions). Overall, this vaccine isn't experimental in any way given the FDA's overstrictness. It is truly based on science and nothing more.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:26 pm    Post subject:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32332692/golden-state-warriors-forward-andrew-wiggins-received-covid-19-vaccine-eligible-play

I'm guessing leaving generational wealth on the table was too much and he gave in.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:35 pm    Post subject:

lar9149 wrote:
gng930 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:


i dont trust the fda or the public health people or big pharma
i think big pharma forced their experimental technologies for the vaccine when there were more well proven options with long term effects pretty well understood.

...

short term effects of these covid vaccines have been very very minimal.

while i only develop PPE, many of my friends run clinical trials for a living.
this is one of many website for finding clinical trials: https://www.clinicaltrialsandme.com/resources/how-long-do-clinical-trials-take/

as stated for just the phase 3 duration of trials: "The length of study for phase 3 clinical trials is usually 1 to 4 years. This phase involves 300 to 3,000 patients, with tests designed to determine the drug's longer-term effects."

any idiot can see the numbers are much larger and duration is much shorter.
i see no need to say any more.


From what I understand mRNA vaccines can be produced much more quickly and that was the driving force for the decision to incorporate into the COVID vaccine and also for its research funding as a whole for well over a decade

Obviously there's no long-term safety data yet on the COVID vaccine but mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans for longer:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)31665-3/fulltext

It was only a phase I trial and probably never went past that because there simply isn't huge demand for another rabies vaccine.

Based on your other practices and arguments, you obviously play things safe and require a high burden of proof to support your decisions (probably appropriate for someone who develops PPE). I think the danger is when that turns into paranoia. Your accusation towards the Pfizer CEO pretty much says it all. Many could argue the CEO would be maligned for cutting the line and it was a PR move. Neither could ever be fully substantiated; the difference is that one of those does not contribute to disinformation that puts public health at risk. You painted it as a refusal when it wasn't even suggested that way in your very own link and when presented with evidence to the contrary, you followed-up with a claim (he was waiting to see how others reacted to the vaccine) that really can't be disproven. That in a nutshell has been the flow of many anti-vax arguments.

You could spin it as that we are taking part in the largest clinical trial in history for a vaccine. I could counterargue that we would otherwise be part of the largest observational study in history on the virulence and long-term effects of COVID. Although there are still unknowns about both, I think there is more overwhelmingly dangerous evidence for one over the other so far. I could state that by contributing to the withholding of treatment what you are doing is a larger-scale version of the Tuskegee experiment. See how it easy it is to invoke a completely baseless and sensationalist spin?


You are right there is no long-term safety data on COVID vaccines. Vaccines however have been in existence over 100 years since the small pox vaccine around 1907. And by the time a child is 5 years old they already receive a lot of vaccines and we as children had the same vaccines.

With all these millions upon millions vaccines used, scientists have not seen long-term effects that would concern safety. But how does that apply to the COVID vaccine?

Vaccine overall designs are similar..you take the virus as a whole, weaken or inactivate it, or just take a part of the virus and inject it into a person so they receive immunity without actually getting the virus. Therefore, if designs are similar, you can apply the logic that vaccines don't have direct long-term effects to the COVID vaccines. Thus, the FDA doesn't find out necessary to wait a long period for approve the COVID vaccine for emergency use.

It is true that the FDA generally is more strict on trials and, thus, some use that as a reason that this vaccine is an "experimental" because it was approved faster than other vaccines..but you have to understand the FDA has sort an "OCD" like behavior to approvals and is likely "overstrict." When compared to the EUA (which approves medications for Europe), medications in general are much more costly and take much longer to get approvals in the USA. In cases where a medication is similar to previous ones, less data in the EUA is required (like in the case of the COVID vaccine) and this would be a more logical approach. The "OCD" behavior of the FDA is likely due to when the FDA approved Vioxx (a medications used for back pain and stomaches) tthat killed about 1/25,000 people and the medication was pulled off the market. Since than, it has the FDA has been much more strict.

For instance, in the last decade you know how many dry eye medications for prescription were approved for the FDA? 2, restasis and Xiidra. This is because the FDA requires any dry eye medication to improve both the patients symptoms and dry eyes test, which is very very difficult. And that is just for dry eyes.

The FDA uses an approach where every drug/device has to be tested like its "the first time" even when similar drugs/device been used with a lots and lots of data has (there are exceptions). Overall, this vaccine isn't experimental in any way given the FDA's overstrictness. It is truly based on science and nothing more.


Were you under the impression I was against vaccines in any manner? Other than those who advocate coercion, you probably won't find a bigger proponent.

Your point is mostly correct but it doesn't necessarily assuage the fears that this in fact the first mRNA vaccine given on such a large scale. We can easily brush people off as being paranoid and baseless but in the end you need to understand (and not necessarily agree with) their stance to have a chance at convincing them. For something as complex as mRNA vaccines versus more traditional vaccines, it is easy for some of those that are less familiar with the biological sciences to default to fear and paranoia.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:38 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32332692/golden-state-warriors-forward-andrew-wiggins-received-covid-19-vaccine-eligible-play

I'm guessing leaving generational wealth on the table was too much and he gave in.


What would his religious exemption be?

This man has a child out of wedlock.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:54 am    Post subject:

Former NBA player Lazar Hayward, 34, is arrested after 'faking negative COVID-19 test' to avoid quarantine in Hawaii​

Quote:
Hayward, who once played for the Minnesota Timberwolves, was charged with unsworn falsification, the station reported

Hawaii law states that fully vaccinated passengers entering the islands from the United States may bypass quarantine after uploading vaccination records into the state's system.

If passengers are unvaccinated, they must show a negative test taken within 72 hours of arrival. Hawaii requires a 10-day traveler quarantine for travelers without a negative test or proof of vaccination.

Hayward, who once played for the Minnesota Timberwolves, was charged with unsworn falsification, the station reported.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10057307/Former-NBA-player-Lazar-Hayward-34-arrested-Hawaii-faking-negative-COVID-19-test.html

Hawaii does not play when it comes to its COVID requirements. Their Safe Travels program has been catching these fakers left and right. Some people never learn! I am really disgusted at how indifferent the citizens of this country are to the danger and suffering of others.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:02 pm    Post subject:

gng930 wrote:
Your point is mostly correct but it doesn't necessarily assuage the fears that this in fact the first mRNA vaccine given on such a large scale. We can easily brush people off as being paranoid and baseless but in the end you need to understand (and not necessarily agree with) their stance to have a chance at convincing them. For something as complex as mRNA vaccines versus more traditional vaccines, it is easy for some of those that are less familiar with the biological sciences to default to fear and paranoia.


I've been staying out of this, but I'll make two quick comments:

1. At this point, yelling at people and shaming them does not accomplish much. For many of them, it just makes them dig in deeper. I know a few people who switched their positions. Every one of them got there on their own, or else was forced to take the vaccine to keep their jobs.

2. There is nothing we can do about the people who are dug in. What we can do is protect ourselves. Think of this as leading by example. A couple of the people I mentioned were persuaded to get vaccinated by hearing other people in the group talking about getting vaccinated and taking precautions.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:10 pm    Post subject:

Black20Ice wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32332692/golden-state-warriors-forward-andrew-wiggins-received-covid-19-vaccine-eligible-play

I'm guessing leaving generational wealth on the table was too much and he gave in.


What would his religious exemption be?

This man has a child out of wedlock.


Wiggins was the most hyped #1 pick since LeBron. I was so mad when we ended up with Randle. Instead, one ended up as a bust and an anti-vaxxer and the other one ended up as a top 20 player.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:11 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Black20Ice wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32332692/golden-state-warriors-forward-andrew-wiggins-received-covid-19-vaccine-eligible-play

I'm guessing leaving generational wealth on the table was too much and he gave in.


What would his religious exemption be?

This man has a child out of wedlock.


Wiggins was the most hyped #1 pick since LeBron. I was so mad when we ended up with Randle. Instead, one ended up as a bust and an anti-vaxxer and the other one ended up as a top 20 player.


All the headlines are like “NBA stars Kyrie Irving, Bradley Beal, and Andrew Wiggins…” and I’m just like “One of these things is not like the other.”
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:17 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
kwase wrote:
I haven't been on this site for awhile, but I'd like to ask a favor for those worried about what's in the vaccine and refuse to take it. The food we eat in this country is loaded with hormones, steroids, pesticides and many other poisons. A potato should not be the size of a melon. Chicken legs should not be the size of turkey legs. A dozen eggs should not be the same color. There's no such thing as seedless fruit. America is #5 in cancer and #1 in obesity. Those of us up in age who remember how an apple pie tasted when we were kids should know that the food now tastes horrible. Can those of you who are obviously very careful about what you put in your body please start a petition and write your local congressperson to stop killing us and do a full scale investigation into the garbage that we are eating every day. As someone who travels abroad often I promise you that the food in this country is nothing short of disgusting. I see a lot of people out there who are against the vaccine because they believe it will do them harm, but I don't hear anybody taking a stand against the well known poison that's in our food, making us obese and sick, dependent on prescription medicine and sending us to an early grave.


i think it is hopeless here
i am not sure whether there are now better standards for organic foods.
if you want safe, you probably need to grow your own food/animals and raise your own fish in stainless tanks.

it was not funny when i found partially hydrogenated oils in every brand of ice cream that i checked.

i would like to know where you are talking about.
for seafood, i read that the mediterrean and the baltic are filthy.
farm raised fish are eating scary stuff.
even before covid, i stopped eating shrimp in restaurants because so much shrimp is now raised in india and vietnam - no thanks
i am not even going to comment on the ocean near china
not sure about south america, but you have australia left.



The freshest and best food I've experienced was in Thailand and the Caribbean. The fruit, chicken and seafood in the Caribbean is amazing. The Thai people are very particular about food being fresh. They will stay up all night to prepare what they will sell the next day and everything is from local farms. I always get sick when returning from those places and eating the food from here for the first week or so. I'm planning to retire in Thailand and I'm pretty sure it will add a few extra years to my life just on the food alone compared to what I'd be eating here. There's a reason Asian people are known for having amazing skin and a youthful appearance. It's also very warm there, which causes your skin to remove toxins through sweat.


My main reason for writing that post was I saw a guy give an interview on YouTube telling people not to trust the vaccine while he was smoking a cigarette. If you're a health nut, vegan and exercise daily I can see why you'd be concerned about what's in your body. But if you drink, smoke, eat fast food and don't workout then I don't get what you're worried about because those things will kill you a lot quicker than a vaccine.


This reminds me of this guy who i see going for a walk around my house....I see him often and he seems to practice good exercise habits....then as I approach him I see him puffing a cigarette...one step forward two steps back I guess.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:49 am    Post subject:

https://abc7.com/health/la-city-council-approves-covid-vaccine-mandate-for-indoor-spaces/11089189/

LA full indoor mandate. guess that means 2 less games for Kyrie and zero games for Kyrie in the Finals if the Nets play the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:52 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
https://abc7.com/health/la-city-council-approves-covid-vaccine-mandate-for-indoor-spaces/11089189/

LA full indoor mandate. guess that means 2 less games for Kyrie and zero games for Kyrie in the Finals if the Nets play the Lakers.


Lol.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:58 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
And this is why we don't tolerate anti-vaxx gaslighting bull-(bleep) on this site.

NYT: U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Surpasses 700,000 Despite Wide Availability of Vaccines

Quote:
The United States surpassed 700,000 deaths from the coronavirus on Friday, a milestone that few experts had anticipated months ago when vaccines became widely available to the American public.

An overwhelming majority of Americans who have died in recent months, a period in which the country has offered broad access to shots, were unvaccinated. The United States has had one of the highest recent death rates of any country with an ample supply of vaccines.

The new and alarming surge of deaths this summer means that the coronavirus pandemic has become the deadliest in American history, overtaking the toll from the influenza pandemic of 1918 and 1919, which killed about 675,000 people.

“This Delta wave just rips through the unvaccinated,” said Howard Markel, a medical historian at the University of Michigan. The deaths that have followed the wide availability of vaccines, he added, are “absolutely needless.”


Quote:
The recent virus deaths are distinct from those in previous chapters of the pandemic, an analysis by The New York Times shows. People who died in the last three and a half months were concentrated in the South, a region that has lagged in vaccinations; many of the deaths were reported in Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana and Arkansas. And those who died were younger: In August, every age group under 55 had its highest death toll of the pandemic.


I mean even the most genuine sincere question about vaccines and treatment is translated as "anti-vaxx gaslighting" on this site. Nothing wrong with struggling through making these decisions. At least we have the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:15 am    Post subject:

fansincemagic wrote:


I mean even the most genuine sincere question about vaccines and treatment is translated as "anti-vaxx gaslighting" on this site.


No, they're not, and they are few and far between.
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