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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:18 pm    Post subject:

Yep, Raiders were just gonna run the ball and let the game end....Staley outsmarted himself and turned an improbable Chargers playoff appearance into nothing.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:21 pm    Post subject:

NFL says thank you Mr.Staley.

Now they don’t have to deal with questions and review of the “OT format”. Scratch it of the list. NFL thanks you for your service Chargers. 😂
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:25 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
why would you give them a TO to rest for that play.....they were going to run it, just stop the run on 3rd down and the clock will run out


Yep they weren't going to give up the ball and lose the game....they were just gonna run the ball and run out the clock....but that timeout gave them an opportunity to go for the W without a penalty. Just terrible decision making by coach Staley in front of a national TV audience.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:30 pm    Post subject:

I actually have less of a problem with the timeout than the decision to go for it from their own 18 in the 3rd quarter., but, to be clear, I would not have called timeout either. Still, they were going to run the ball one way or the other. The play clock was down to, what, 4 seconds, so it's not like they stopped the clock early. They knew they were running the ball out of the timeout and they still couldn't stop it. They were going to run it if there had been no timeout, and who's to say they would have stopped it then? The Raiders and Chargers both would have had to make a decision had the running play been stopped short, leading to a 4th down and relatively short. Do the Chargers call their final timeout, forcing the Raiders hand? If so, do the Raiders opt for a 55-ish yard FG, knowing that a miss gives the ball to the Chargers in excellent field position which could mean you now put a loss into play? Do the Raiders just punt and essentially give in to the tie?

Let's say that the Chargers had never called the timeout. OK, it's 3rd and 4 from the 39 and they are going to run it. Let's say they get 2 yards and it's 4th and 2. OK, if you're the Chargers, do you call a timeout then? If so, and you're the Raiders, do you go for a 55-yarder to win the game, or risk missing and then the Chargers could get into FG position and knock you out of the playoffs completely? Or if you're the Chargers, do you just let the clock run, which could let the Raiders go for the 55-yarder on the final play without too much risk? Ultimately, I think you just let the clock keep running before calling the 3rd down timeout, because there's always a chance the Raiders just decide "screw it, the FG is too risky, we'll just let this thing run out and we're in the playoffs."

What a game, though. The final 15 minutes were absolutely riveting television. Crazy comeback by the Chargers, several 4th down conversions, bad officiating overturned on replay, a possible tie playing out, it just had it all.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:39 pm    Post subject:

Steelers playoff scenario was pretty improbable considering they relied on the lowly Jags to beat a Colts team that was destined for the playoffs...
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:52 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Steelers playoff scenario was pretty improbable considering they relied on the lowly Jags to beat a Colts team that was destined for the playoffs...


Imagine getting a win from the Jaguars and all you have to do is dodge a tie and you're in the playoffs. One previous game in the NFL had ended in a tie this year, out of 271 games. One out of 271. And here the final game somehow goes to OT, even though it was a 12-point lead in the 4th quarter. Then it goes to 15. Then the Chargers go for 2 after a TD cuts the lead to 9; a missed conversion there ends a chance at a tie, and they get it. They convert what seems like 5 4th downs on the final drive. They are still something like 35-40 yards away with only about 17 seconds left. Guy makes a catch at the sideline at the 12 which gets (correctly) overturned on replay. Chargers get the TD on the final play. Raiders have to settle for a FG in OT when a TD would have ended the game. Chargers have to settle for a FG to tie it. As that clock was ticking down, I can't even imagine what the Steelers were thinking. If Jacobs hadn't gotten loose for that long run to get them near midfield in the first place, they probably just settle for the tie. They were still settling on the final series of downs, really.

It really was riveting to watch it all unfold.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:26 am    Post subject:

Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman are out in Minnesota, and Matt Nagy and Ryan Pace are both out in Chicago. Both organizations are cleaning house. But Miami firing Brian Flores is a real shocker, as they were at the bottom of the NFL barrel 3 years ago and finished with back-to-back 9-8 seasons, including beating the Patriots both times this year. Flores is 4-2 against Belichick over 3 years. The fact that Joe Judge still has a job and Flores does not is quite telling.

Good 'ole boy network, indeed.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:37 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
why would you give them a TO to rest for that play.....they were going to run it, just stop the run on 3rd down and the clock will run out


Yep they weren't going to give up the ball and lose the game....they were just gonna run the ball and run out the clock....but that timeout gave them an opportunity to go for the W without a penalty. Just terrible decision making by coach Staley in front of a national TV audience.

Sorry but this is a bad take.

The Raiders lined up in Shotgun on 3rd and 4, and were absolutely not going to simply take a knee and run out the clock -- they had a legit play called. The Chargers called TO w/ 4 seconds on the play clock and 38 seconds on the game clock, meaning that stopping the clock at that point meant nothing. Staley likely took the TO because he didn't like the defensive alignment vs. what the Raiders showed immediately prior to the TO -- timeouts like this happens multiple times, in every game, every week.

Moreover, even out of the timeout the Raiders called a simple run off tackle which indicates that it likely didn't change much about their thinking. The problem was that the Chargers couldn't stop the Raiders from getting 10 yards on that play, not that they called the TO.

If the Raiders were lined up in victory formation prior to the TO, and then switched to an actual play call after, then you'd have a point. But that wasn't the case at all.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:45 am    Post subject:

AY2043 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
why would you give them a TO to rest for that play.....they were going to run it, just stop the run on 3rd down and the clock will run out


Yep they weren't going to give up the ball and lose the game....they were just gonna run the ball and run out the clock....but that timeout gave them an opportunity to go for the W without a penalty. Just terrible decision making by coach Staley in front of a national TV audience.

Sorry but this is a bad take.

The Raiders lined up in Shotgun on 3rd and 4, and were absolutely not going to simply take a knee and run out the clock -- they had a legit play called. The Chargers called TO w/ 4 seconds on the play clock and 38 seconds on the game clock, meaning that stopping the clock at that point meant nothing. Staley likely took the TO because he didn't like the defensive alignment vs. what the Raiders showed immediately prior to the TO -- timeouts like this happens multiple times, in every game, every week.

Moreover, even out of the timeout the Raiders called a simple run off tackle which indicates that it likely didn't change much about their thinking. The problem was that the Chargers couldn't stop the Raiders from getting 10 yards on that play, not that they called the TO.

If the Raiders were lined up in victory formation prior to the TO, and then switched to an actual play call after, then you'd have a point. But that wasn't the case at all.


I still wouldn't have taken the timeout because I think keeping the clock moving in that situation forces the Raiders to think faster, and Bisaccia and Carr both admitted after the game that they were absolutely thinking about just taking the tie, and their play-calling showed that they didn't exactly have a sense of urgency about throwing the ball to get into better FG range. Still, you're right in that they couldn't stop the run anyway, and if Staley had just let the clock run and if they had picked up the first down on the ground, there really wouldn't have been much harm in trying a walkoff 50+ yard FG.

But I still think you just keep the clock moving there, don't let them get organized. I realize that the Chargers themselves were trying to get organized, but when you can't stop the run anyway, I think they would have been better off just letting the clock run and hoping that the thing runs out if you get a 3rd down stop. All in all though, that wasn't the death knell for them losing the game. That all said, Staley's recklessness in going for 4th downs all year had a huge part in their 9-8 record despite having a franchise QB. As did his defense which got repeatedly gouged all year, especially against the run, and which could not get off the field on 3rd down (literally the worst in the league at that).


Last edited by ChickenStu on Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:47 am    Post subject:

AY2043 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
why would you give them a TO to rest for that play.....they were going to run it, just stop the run on 3rd down and the clock will run out


Yep they weren't going to give up the ball and lose the game....they were just gonna run the ball and run out the clock....but that timeout gave them an opportunity to go for the W without a penalty. Just terrible decision making by coach Staley in front of a national TV audience.

Sorry but this is a bad take.

The Raiders lined up in Shotgun on 3rd and 4, and were absolutely not going to simply take a knee and run out the clock -- they had a legit play called. The Chargers called TO w/ 4 seconds on the play clock and 38 seconds on the game clock, meaning that stopping the clock at that point meant nothing. Staley likely took the TO because he didn't like the defensive alignment vs. what the Raiders showed immediately prior to the TO -- timeouts like this happens multiple times, in every game, every week.

Moreover, even out of the timeout the Raiders called a simple run off tackle which indicates that it likely didn't change much about their thinking. The problem was that the Chargers couldn't stop the Raiders from getting 10 yards on that play, not that they called the TO.

If the Raiders were lined up in victory formation prior to the TO, and then switched to an actual play call after, then you'd have a point. But that wasn't the case at all.

I agree, I cant blame the Chargers thinking right here. I think they wanted nothing more than to end the game in a tie at this point but the Raiders were showing they werent going to just die down on that third down. They drained as much time as they could to put their best package in to defend that 3rd down which unfortunately didnt work.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:49 am    Post subject:

AY2043 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
why would you give them a TO to rest for that play.....they were going to run it, just stop the run on 3rd down and the clock will run out


Yep they weren't going to give up the ball and lose the game....they were just gonna run the ball and run out the clock....but that timeout gave them an opportunity to go for the W without a penalty. Just terrible decision making by coach Staley in front of a national TV audience.

Sorry but this is a bad take.

The Raiders lined up in Shotgun on 3rd and 4, and were absolutely not going to simply take a knee and run out the clock -- they had a legit play called. The Chargers called TO w/ 4 seconds on the play clock and 38 seconds on the game clock, meaning that stopping the clock at that point meant nothing. Staley likely took the TO because he didn't like the defensive alignment vs. what the Raiders showed immediately prior to the TO -- timeouts like this happens multiple times, in every game, every week.

Moreover, even out of the timeout the Raiders called a simple run off tackle which indicates that it likely didn't change much about their thinking. The problem was that the Chargers couldn't stop the Raiders from getting 10 yards on that play, not that they called the TO.

If the Raiders were lined up in victory formation prior to the TO, and then switched to an actual play call after, then you'd have a point. But that wasn't the case at all.


The problem with calling a timeout was it let the Raiders regroup. Derek Carr explained it allowed them to explore other play options which they didn't have when they had a running clock. The Raiders were not going to give up the ball to the Chargers and lose possession and potentially the game. That is why calling the timeout was a terrible call. It gave them more options other than running out the clock and settling for a potential tie.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:55 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
AY2043 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
why would you give them a TO to rest for that play.....they were going to run it, just stop the run on 3rd down and the clock will run out


Yep they weren't going to give up the ball and lose the game....they were just gonna run the ball and run out the clock....but that timeout gave them an opportunity to go for the W without a penalty. Just terrible decision making by coach Staley in front of a national TV audience.

Sorry but this is a bad take.

The Raiders lined up in Shotgun on 3rd and 4, and were absolutely not going to simply take a knee and run out the clock -- they had a legit play called. The Chargers called TO w/ 4 seconds on the play clock and 38 seconds on the game clock, meaning that stopping the clock at that point meant nothing. Staley likely took the TO because he didn't like the defensive alignment vs. what the Raiders showed immediately prior to the TO -- timeouts like this happens multiple times, in every game, every week.

Moreover, even out of the timeout the Raiders called a simple run off tackle which indicates that it likely didn't change much about their thinking. The problem was that the Chargers couldn't stop the Raiders from getting 10 yards on that play, not that they called the TO.

If the Raiders were lined up in victory formation prior to the TO, and then switched to an actual play call after, then you'd have a point. But that wasn't the case at all.


The problem with calling a timeout was it let the Raiders regroup. Also it stopped the clock when the Raiders were simply going to run out the clock via running the ball. They were not going to give up the ball to the Chargers and lose possession and potentially the game. That is why calling the timeout was a terrible call. It gave them more options other than running out the clock and settling for a potential tie.

But they still called a running play out of the timeout. And given the play clock is 40 seconds and the timeout was taken w/ 38 on the game clock, stopping the clock doesn't mean much.

I guess maybe I could see the argument of letting the Raiders re-group. But, if you watch Staley's post-game presser, he basically says he called the TO because they knew a run play was coming and wanted to get the right personnel on the field. The sub they actually ended up making was subbing in Linval Joseph (300 lb DT) for Kenneth Murray (a 1st round bust linebacker who has been terrible all year), which makes total sense. Again, I think the problem was that the Chargers run defense is just (bleep) terrible and couldn't stop Jacobs from getting 10 yards even though they knew a run was coming.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:58 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
AY2043 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
why would you give them a TO to rest for that play.....they were going to run it, just stop the run on 3rd down and the clock will run out


Yep they weren't going to give up the ball and lose the game....they were just gonna run the ball and run out the clock....but that timeout gave them an opportunity to go for the W without a penalty. Just terrible decision making by coach Staley in front of a national TV audience.

Sorry but this is a bad take.

The Raiders lined up in Shotgun on 3rd and 4, and were absolutely not going to simply take a knee and run out the clock -- they had a legit play called. The Chargers called TO w/ 4 seconds on the play clock and 38 seconds on the game clock, meaning that stopping the clock at that point meant nothing. Staley likely took the TO because he didn't like the defensive alignment vs. what the Raiders showed immediately prior to the TO -- timeouts like this happens multiple times, in every game, every week.

Moreover, even out of the timeout the Raiders called a simple run off tackle which indicates that it likely didn't change much about their thinking. The problem was that the Chargers couldn't stop the Raiders from getting 10 yards on that play, not that they called the TO.

If the Raiders were lined up in victory formation prior to the TO, and then switched to an actual play call after, then you'd have a point. But that wasn't the case at all.


I still wouldn't have taken the timeout because I think keeping the clock moving in that situation forces the Raiders to think faster, and Bisaccia and Carr both admitted after the game that they were absolutely thinking about just taking the tie, and their play-calling showed that they didn't exactly have a sense of urgency about throwing the ball to get into better FG range. Still, you're right in that they couldn't stop the run anyway, and if Staley had just let the clock run and if they had picked up the first down on the ground, there really wouldn't have been much harm in trying a walkoff 50+ yard FG.

But I still think you just keep the clock moving there, don't let them get organized. I realize that the Chargers themselves were trying to get organized, but when you can't stop the run anyway, I think they would have been better off just letting the clock run and hoping that the thing runs out if you get a 3rd down stop. All in all though, that wasn't the death knell for them losing the game. That all said, Staley's recklessness in going for 4th downs all year had a huge part in their 9-8 record despite having a franchise QB. As did his defense which got repeatedly gouged all year, especially against the run, and which could not get off the field on 3rd down (literally the worst in the league at that).

Staley's getting (bleep) for the TO (un-rightfully so imo, given my post above), but the real egregious decision was the 4th and 1 at the 18. Not only was it crazy to go for that given the situation, but it was absolutely insane not to at least put it in Herbert's hands if you're going to go for it. They just got blown up twice in a row running the same play on 3rd and 4th down.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:01 am    Post subject:

^
Why would you think they were going to pass? They had telegraphed that they were just running, running, running in the final couple of minutes. That right there shows a flawed process. Yes, Murray has been a bust. (They traded up for him, too!) And yes, the Raiders called a vanilla run play out of the timeout anyway. But I do think that the Raiders had the tie in their minds and that the timeout gave them a minute to reset, to really consider their options, to ponder exactly what they were going to do depending on the yardage gained on the next play. Again, look, if Staley lets the clock run and if the Raiders get the 1st down anyway, I'm sure the Raiders would have attempted a walkoff FG try, since gaining 5 yards would mean a 51-yard attempt at worst. But I do think that the timeout let the Raiders assess their options, and given their admittance after the game that the tie was absolutely in their minds, I think the timeout was ultimately detrimental to the Chargers' cause.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:04 am    Post subject:

What the Raiders accomplished is almost unprecedented. After all they went through and still make the playoffs make a season to be proud of, and it's still not over. IMO it would be a shame not to make Rich Bisaccia permanent head coach.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:16 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
What the Raiders accomplished is almost unprecedented. After all they went through and still make the playoffs make a season to be proud of, and it's still not over. IMO it would be a shame not to make Rich Bisaccia permanent head coach.


He's done a nice job of leading them into the playoffs, but I'm sure that the Raiders will aim higher once the season is over. If they win a playoff game, though, maybe he'll get stronger consideration. But I absolutely think they are goiing to be in the market to make a splashy hire.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:55 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Steelers playoff scenario was pretty improbable considering they relied on the lowly Jags to beat a Colts team that was destined for the playoffs...


Jags head coach Bevell and Mike Tomlin were on the Minnesota coaching staff together in 06. Bevell said your welcome and congratulations to his old colleague……
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:03 pm    Post subject:

Regardless how one interprets the timeout and other decisions, it was a fantastic game at the end of the season. Overall, it has been a dreadful season, IMO. Refereeing has been terrible, about three quarters of the teams are awful, etc.

Herbert will have one incredible career. His poise under pressure was something, though the Raider defense running out of gas made a lot of those 4th down completions possible. Still, he looks like he's been playing for a decade. And Carr looked great, too.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:03 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
Regardless how one interprets the timeout and other decisions, it was a fantastic game at the end of the season. Overall, it has been a dreadful season, IMO. Refereeing has been terrible, about three quarters of the teams are awful, etc.

Herbert will have one incredible career. His poise under pressure was something, though the Raider defense running out of gas made a lot of those 4th down completions possible. Still, he looks like he's been playing for a decade. And Carr looked great, too.


The refereeing, oy vey. Even last night, it was almost as if the Clete Blakeman crew had Raiders money line.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:04 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
jodeke wrote:
What the Raiders accomplished is almost unprecedented. After all they went through and still make the playoffs make a season to be proud of, and it's still not over. IMO it would be a shame not to make Rich Bisaccia permanent head coach.


He's done a nice job of leading them into the playoffs, but I'm sure that the Raiders will aim higher once the season is over. If they win a playoff game, though, maybe he'll get stronger consideration. But I absolutely think they are goiing to be in the market to make a splashy hire.

Allow me to rephrase, It would a shame not to at least consider giving Bisaccla the head coach job. He has the locker room.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:20 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
AY2043 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
why would you give them a TO to rest for that play.....they were going to run it, just stop the run on 3rd down and the clock will run out


Yep they weren't going to give up the ball and lose the game....they were just gonna run the ball and run out the clock....but that timeout gave them an opportunity to go for the W without a penalty. Just terrible decision making by coach Staley in front of a national TV audience.

Sorry but this is a bad take.

The Raiders lined up in Shotgun on 3rd and 4, and were absolutely not going to simply take a knee and run out the clock -- they had a legit play called. The Chargers called TO w/ 4 seconds on the play clock and 38 seconds on the game clock, meaning that stopping the clock at that point meant nothing. Staley likely took the TO because he didn't like the defensive alignment vs. what the Raiders showed immediately prior to the TO -- timeouts like this happens multiple times, in every game, every week.

Moreover, even out of the timeout the Raiders called a simple run off tackle which indicates that it likely didn't change much about their thinking. The problem was that the Chargers couldn't stop the Raiders from getting 10 yards on that play, not that they called the TO.

If the Raiders were lined up in victory formation prior to the TO, and then switched to an actual play call after, then you'd have a point. But that wasn't the case at all.

I agree, I cant blame the Chargers thinking right here. I think they wanted nothing more than to end the game in a tie at this point but the Raiders were showing they werent going to just die down on that third down. They drained as much time as they could to put their best package in to defend that 3rd down which unfortunately didnt work.


The Chargers kept going for the end zone when they had the ball in OT so I can’t fault the Raiders for going for the win. And by winning the Raiders get a 5th seed instead of a 7th seed, and avoid the Chiefs, who embarrassed them twice during the season.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:26 pm    Post subject:

^
The Raiders just ran the ball on their final drive, so I absolutely believe they would have been content with the tie and weren't going to push the envelope with pass plays to try to get into easy FG range. But they were running it pretty well and got near FG range and the opportunity to kick presented itself, so they took it. Once that opportunity presented itself, it was definitely worth going for the FG, even if it had been a 52-54 yard FG, let's say. You have a much better chance of winning in Cincinnati than you do in KC.

That said, the Raiders will be working on a short week (they have to play on Saturday) and after having played 70 minutes of football last night. But maybe the Bengals will be nervous, as this iteration of Bengals aren't familiar with playoff football. (Neither are the Raiders, actually, as even Carr was injured the last time they made the playoffs.)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:30 pm    Post subject:

My view on the awards this year:

MVP
Rodgers will win
Brady should win

Offensive POY
Kupp will and should win

Defensive POY
TJ Watt will win
Aaron Donald should win

Offensive ROY
Chase will and should win

Defensive ROY
Parsons will and should win

Comeback POY
Torn on this one. I'd vote Burrow but think it's a coin flip between he and Dak.

Coach Of The Year
Vrabel will and should win.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:19 pm    Post subject:

As a Bills fan, I would have much preferred the socal, warm weather Chargers dealing with the Buffalo tundra over the Pats and I would much rather face the inept coach Vs. the genius coach.
Bills by 6.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:27 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
My view on the awards this year:

Comeback POY
Torn on this one. I'd vote Burrow but think it's a coin flip between he and Dak.


I wonder what's the definition of "comeback"?

Is it:

1) Coming off of an injury?
2) Coming off of missing most of a season?
3) Coming off of a bad year (after you've had a good one previously)

I ask because Burrow played 10 games last year and had a very good rookie season. He only missed 6 games.

Also, can rookies be comeback player of the year after their rookie season? If so, what would they be "coming back" from? In essence, Burrow would be coming back from his great college season at LSU?
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