DENNIS SCHRÖDER - Toronto (2yr, $26M)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 189, 190, 191 ... 282, 283, 284  Next
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:41 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Am I missing something?

I've heard "hard cap" brought up in this thread a million times in regards to a sign and trade.

Can't all parties agree to a sign and trade and then push it through officially after making all their other free agent moves?

I guess that leaves the door open for someone backing out. But if we're calling sign and trades "rare". Backing out of deals is rare x1000.


I think this is the reason why it's tough.

Quote:
Any team that acquires a player via sign-and-trade can’t be above the tax apron (a mark about $6MM over the tax line) when the deal is completed — or at any time for the rest of that league year.

_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
srekal2
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 542

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:44 am    Post subject:

KCP and a first is what I was thinking.

RashardA wrote:
srekal2 wrote:
RashardA wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Dennis wants 100M, but Lonzo is a better 3pt shooter and passer I prefer to go after Lonzo Ball.


How do you propose the Lakers sign Lonzo Ball with no cap space?




Sign and trade


Who would the Pels want off this roster? If you say Dennis, how do we know he wants to go to New Orleans?

Secondly, why would the Pels look to help the Lakers improve when they own multiple picks from the Lakers?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:44 am    Post subject:

In 2020-21, the luxury tax line was $132.6m. The apron would be at $138.9.

If you extended everyone, signed everyone on the vet's min deals and used the full mini MLE, there's a chance we are above the apron by the time we try to execute the double S&T.

I'm just not sure the Pels want to pay Dennis $20m/year with Bledsoe there, and why wouldn't they just keep Lonzo? Also BI/Zion do a lot of the ballhandling, leaving Dennis to do what exactly? I don't see it at all. I think he will shoot for a big city market (LA, Chicago, NY). I don't see him as a New Orleans type.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
kikanga
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29150
Location: La La Land

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:56 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
In 2020-21, the luxury tax line was $132.6m. The apron would be at $138.9.

If you extended everyone, signed everyone on the vet's min deals and used the full mini MLE, there's a chance we are above the apron by the time we try to execute the double S&T.


Probably depends on if Trez opts in or not and how crazy the THT bidding war gets.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
BILBJH
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5104

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:19 am    Post subject:

Schroder liked playing in OKC, so I'm not sure the big market theory is true.

https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2020/11/15/dennis-schroder-appears-to-have-rejected-trade-to-lakers-last-season/

I wouldn't get excited about any trade with New Orleans unless you started to hear some concrete rumors from major reporters but I don't think the idea is out of the question.

Unless Lonzo has some reported structural problem I wouldn't worry about his injuries. LaVar was unhappy about Lonzo playing as a 3 and D guy instead of point guard and running the offense so when the season went south maybe they were just being cautious.

I remember when people were saying that Ingram was a huge risk because of his blood clot issue and were pushing to keep Kuzma instead.

I also remember the some of the same people ignoring AD's tendency to being injury prone.

Bottom line, people tend to exaggerate or downplay a player's health depending on whether they like them or what their own preferences are.

If they like a player... it's oh well, he's a top player so it doesn't matter about the risk.

If they don't like a player or prefer someone instead... it's OMG he never stays on the floor.

I'd sign Zo over Schroder just to maximize our chances of getting Lamelo let alone I think he has way more ceiling. His health worries me way less than AD's potential Achilles issues.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
vasashi17+
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5610

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:13 am    Post subject:

Adding more complications to any possible Schroder S&t:

Quote:
Coon: The rules formerly known as BYC now apply under just one circumstance -- during sign-and-trade transactions (see question number 92). If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing1, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.


120% of Schro’s deal last year is 19.2m

That will be the most he can count as for us in outgoing salary. So without aggregation (sending him out by himself), at most he can bring back a 24m salaried player.

4yrs 76.8m...take it or leave it!

Cause if wants more than that, he is only going to count as 16m in outgoing salary no matter how much we sign him up for as part of a S&t deal.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersfever714
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 11594

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:18 am    Post subject:

Lakers shouldn't have said publicly they were "frustrated" with DS. That was really stupid because it lowers DS's value. And you don't want to devalue something you still own. Unless they do want to lower DS's value so they could re-sign him for less but that would be dumb to pair him alongside Lebron again after seeing what happened in the playoffs. I hope we could get like maybe a Lavine back for DS. I really don't want to see DS in Lakers uniform next season.
_________________
LeGoat! LeMazing! LeGend!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:30 am    Post subject:

Quote:
If they don't like a player or prefer someone instead... it's OMG he never stays on the floor.

I'd sign Zo over Schroder just to maximize our chances of getting Lamelo let alone I think he has way more ceiling. His health worries me way less than AD's potential Achilles issues.


But Zo is literally injured at the end of every season. That's a tough one especially if we are trying to play 100+ games in a playoff run. It's really something to be considered.

LaMelo? He's going to be a Hornet for a long time, like probably 7 more years?
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:53 am    Post subject:

And you can check my posts in the past. I was a Zo fan.

But we cannot rely on a guy who barely plays 50 games a year, when we already have injury concerns with AD/LBJ.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
quartzcharm
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 30 Mar 2016
Posts: 551

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:23 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
And you can check my posts in the past. I was a Zo fan.

But we cannot rely on a guy who barely plays 50 games a year, when we already have injury concerns with AD/LBJ.


I don't really have concerns with LBJ injury-wise. AD yes - please wrap him up in bubble wrap over the summer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
kikanga
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29150
Location: La La Land

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:33 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
And you can check my posts in the past. I was a Zo fan.

But we cannot rely on a guy who barely plays 50 games a year, when we already have injury concerns with AD/LBJ.


I don't want Zo either.

But I don't agree with your argument for why.

Just cause, if LBJ and AD aren't healthy. It doesn't matter who we have at PG.
Neither Zo or DS is getting us out of the 1st round if our big 2 aren't healthy.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LGFan
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Jun 2021
Posts: 1860

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:45 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
And you can check my posts in the past. I was a Zo fan.

But we cannot rely on a guy who barely plays 50 games a year, when we already have injury concerns with AD/LBJ.


I don't want Zo either.

But I don't agree with your argument for why.

Just cause, if LBJ and AD aren't healthy. It doesn't matter who we have at PG.
Neither Zo or DS is getting us out of the 1st round if our big 2 aren't healthy.



100% accurate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:47 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
And you can check my posts in the past. I was a Zo fan.

But we cannot rely on a guy who barely plays 50 games a year, when we already have injury concerns with AD/LBJ.


I don't want Zo either.

But I don't agree with your argument for why.

Just cause, if LBJ and AD aren't healthy. It doesn't matter who we have at PG.
Neither Zo or DS is getting us out of the 1st round if our big 2 aren't healthy.


Wait, so you don't even want to try to have a 3rd piece be someone who is historically durable? Why wouldn't you want that? That's one of the arguments against Porky for example, and also the fact I don't think he's in a closing lineup either.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
BILBJH
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5104

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:39 pm    Post subject:

The only reason I'd advocate for players who are injury prone, old, or potential busts is because I don't we can acquire a player who fits the historically durable, in their prime, skilled shooter who can create their own offense while not being a complete defensive liability.

Again there is a case for Schroder being better than the alternatives but I think there are six out of seven seasons of evidence why he wouldn't be as well as the Covid and Instagram fiascos which are recent history.

I fully admit Schoder could be the lesser of evils but I'd rather go a different route if possible.

Schroder is the typical safe low ceiling/high floor player that would normally work if LBJ was younger.

Personally, I'd rather take a chance on some of these riskier but higher ceiling players.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:56 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
And you can check my posts in the past. I was a Zo fan.

But we cannot rely on a guy who barely plays 50 games a year, when we already have injury concerns with AD/LBJ.


I don't want Zo either.

But I don't agree with your argument for why.

Just cause, if LBJ and AD aren't healthy. It doesn't matter who we have at PG.
Neither Zo or DS is getting us out of the 1st round if our big 2 aren't healthy.


Yes, if LBJ and AD aren't healthy for the playoffs, the supporting cast doesn't matter much. But when Lebron and Davis went down in the regular season, we needed Schroder. So what would have happened if Schroder missed 20 games? If the top three players on your team are all injury prone, you're just asking for trouble.
_________________
Internet Argument Resolved
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
oaktown_dimond
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 1357

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:13 pm    Post subject:

my take is lonzo is taller (which i think was our secret weapon with KCP and Danny in the back court last year), zo has much better court vision, better defense, better 3 ball.. and most importantly doesn't think he's on the level of LBJ and AD. chances are he will do what he is told... kind of like in a kuzma kinda way.

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
And you can check my posts in the past. I was a Zo fan.

But we cannot rely on a guy who barely plays 50 games a year, when we already have injury concerns with AD/LBJ.


I don't want Zo either.

But I don't agree with your argument for why.

Just cause, if LBJ and AD aren't healthy. It doesn't matter who we have at PG.
Neither Zo or DS is getting us out of the 1st round if our big 2 aren't healthy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58318

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:25 pm    Post subject:

If the Suns win the West.
It would show that we had the firepower with a healthy AD and a not 100 percent Bron to beat them. Were up 2-1.

Hope we get some health and peak play at the right time for AD and Bron next year.

I think who plays the PG spot to them just needs to be a good defender with some size to switch and can shoot 3s well (not Dennis imo).

Even if we bring Dennis back, I hope it’s not as starter. He really isn’t a good fit chemistry wise with AD, let alone AD and Bron.

Would he want to return as a bench player? IDK. Think he’s gone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
epic_
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:41 pm    Post subject:

DS would be a good 6th man
_________________
💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Laker's Fan
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12809

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:05 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
Adding more complications to any possible Schroder S&t:

Quote:
Coon: The rules formerly known as BYC now apply under just one circumstance -- during sign-and-trade transactions (see question number 92). If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing1, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.


120% of Schro’s deal last year is 19.2m

That will be the most he can count as for us in outgoing salary. So without aggregation (sending him out by himself), at most he can bring back a 24m salaried player.

4yrs 76.8m...take it or leave it!

Cause if wants more than that, he is only going to count as 16m in outgoing salary no matter how much we sign him up for as part of a S&t deal.


This is interesting Vasashi . Still, I don't think you have to worry about someone offering Dennis more than $19.2m .

He's a below average 3point shooter, below average decision maker with the ball, he's undersized, and he has had his share of issues communicating. He's honestly just not that good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
kikanga
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29150
Location: La La Land

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:12 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
And you can check my posts in the past. I was a Zo fan.

But we cannot rely on a guy who barely plays 50 games a year, when we already have injury concerns with AD/LBJ.


I don't want Zo either.

But I don't agree with your argument for why.

Just cause, if LBJ and AD aren't healthy. It doesn't matter who we have at PG.
Neither Zo or DS is getting us out of the 1st round if our big 2 aren't healthy.


Yes, if LBJ and AD aren't healthy for the playoffs, the supporting cast doesn't matter much. But when Lebron and Davis went down in the regular season, we needed Schroder. So what would have happened if Schroder missed 20 games? If the top three players on your team are all injury prone, you're just asking for trouble.


We probably make it in the playoffs still via the play-in. Or we get a higher draft pick. Don't care much about the difference between 1st round out and not making playoffs. Both are failures IMO.

It's pretty binary. Either we win a chip or we don't. Degrees of failure aren't important.

In fact you could argue it's better to completely tank the season if LBJ and AD go down and we have our pick. Maybe we don't have AD right now if we didn't get that 4th pick.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
kikanga
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29150
Location: La La Land

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:21 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
And you can check my posts in the past. I was a Zo fan.

But we cannot rely on a guy who barely plays 50 games a year, when we already have injury concerns with AD/LBJ.


I don't want Zo either.

But I don't agree with your argument for why.

Just cause, if LBJ and AD aren't healthy. It doesn't matter who we have at PG.
Neither Zo or DS is getting us out of the 1st round if our big 2 aren't healthy.


Wait, so you don't even want to try to have a 3rd piece be someone who is historically durable? Why wouldn't you want that? That's one of the arguments against Porky for example, and also the fact I don't think he's in a closing lineup either.


Sure durability for our 3rd piece matters if LBJ and AD are healthy. If LBJ and AD aren't healthy. Whether our 3rd best player plays or not is insignificant.

I care about the pieces fitting optimally with our roster healthy more than anything else. Conley, Westbrook, and CP3 have injury concerns as well. But I'd swap DS for any of them in a heart beat and just hope we stay healthy.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ahaider
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 3501

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:45 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
If the Suns win the West.
It would show that we had the firepower with a healthy AD and a not 100 percent Bron to beat them. Were up 2-1.

Hope we get some health and peak play at the right time for AD and Bron next year.

I think who plays the PG spot to them just needs to be a good defender with some size to switch and can shoot 3s well (not Dennis imo).

Even if we bring Dennis back, I hope it’s not as starter. He really isn’t a good fit chemistry wise with AD, let alone AD and Bron.

Would he want to return as a bench player? IDK. Think he’s gone.


Hopefully in S&T if he is gone. Think that’s best for both parties.
_________________
Author of James Harden and the Strip Club


"The key to good decision making is not knowledge. It is understanding. We are swimming in the former. We are desperately lacking in the latter." - Malcom Gladwell
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
vasashi17+
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5610

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:02 pm    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
Adding more complications to any possible Schroder S&t:

Quote:
Coon: The rules formerly known as BYC now apply under just one circumstance -- during sign-and-trade transactions (see question number 92). If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing1, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.


120% of Schro’s deal last year is 19.2m

That will be the most he can count as for us in outgoing salary. So without aggregation (sending him out by himself), at most he can bring back a 24m salaried player.

4yrs 76.8m...take it or leave it!

Cause if wants more than that, he is only going to count as 16m in outgoing salary no matter how much we sign him up for as part of a S&t deal.


This is interesting Vasashi . Still, I don't think you have to worry about someone offering Dennis more than $19.2m .

He's a below average 3point shooter, below average decision maker with the ball, he's undersized, and he has had his share of issues communicating. He's honestly just not that good.


Yeah, I just want to clarify that I don’t believe Dennis the talent is a keeper...however Dennis the asset needs to be kept and flipped as a S&t or kept and dealt later at the trade deadline. Seeing how lack of chemistry was one of the talking points this season, I wound prefer the former rather than the latter.

Since Schro will be BYC as a S&t’d player, the most he can bring back by himself (@19m per) is a 24m player, which is well under a max type salaried player. For example if the Wiz blow it up and send Beal out, I feel Russ is a realistic get for us. But dude is valued at 44m and that means we need a minimum of about 35m to send out. So if you account for Schro @ 19m, we still need about 16m in outgoing salary to bring in Russ. Kuz, Marc and a partially guaranteed McKinnie @ about 700k can get us there.

Now a S&t gets him less overall (can’t be longer than 4 years in length vs 5 for full bird exception, 5% annual escalators vs 8%) plus a team trading for him this offseason will be hard capped vs if they wait till the trade deadline to trade for him, they can still operate as a soft capped team.

So let’s say we actually give him his bag and price him at his demand of 4yrs 100m, then all we need to aggregate to his 25m per deal is about 4m to bring in a guy like Russ (and his 44m salary) at the trade deadline. So in this example, that 4m can be made up with a vet min deals and a fully guaranteed McKinnie.

So pros for an immediate S&t this summer is to get Bron/AD that 3rd from the jump of the season. Cons is Schro counts as less in aggregation due to being BYC and we need to attach more assets to make the money work.

Pros to wait to deal Schro closer to the trade deadline is that we don’t have to attach as much to a Schro led package. Cons is that Bron/AD don’t get to have the necessary “help” till half way thru the season.

Hope that clears up my position on this topic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
kikanga
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29150
Location: La La Land

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:13 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
I think who plays the PG spot to them just needs to be a good defender with some size to switch and can shoot 3s well (not Dennis imo).

Even if we bring Dennis back, I hope it’s not as starter. He really isn’t a good fit chemistry wise with AD, let alone AD and Bron.


People (myself included) have been saying this since the news of him demanding to start (beginning of season) broke.

I kept holding out hope. But he didn't really have chemistry with any of the starters outside Drummond.

If we bring everyone back. He and Drummond off the bench could be a huge + for us. But I wouldn't advise bigger roles than that for either player. Against some opposing team matchups they can excel. And in those cases we can always close halfs with them.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:33 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Those arguing for Dennis the asset.

Question.

Do we all agree that the Lakers will not bringing back Dennis, THT, Caruso and Drummond. Some of these guys will be gone.


I think Drummond will be gone because we don't have his bird rights and can't pay him more than the mini-mle.

I see no reason why all the other three can't/won't be back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 189, 190, 191 ... 282, 283, 284  Next
Page 190 of 284
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB