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wolfpaclaker
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 Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Those arguing for Dennis the asset.
Question.
Do we all agree that the Lakers will not bringing back Dennis, THT, Caruso and Drummond. Some of these guys will be gone. |
I think Drummond will be gone because we don't have his bird rights and can't pay him more than the mini-mle.
I see no reason why all the other three can't/won't be back. |
Money. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:10 am Post subject: |
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Still have 6 weeks to FA.
Crazy but I think most of FA is done these days in the days leading to FA.
In a month, probably we already either negotiated a deal with him, or he’s being let go.
I am most interested in this off-season the smaller moves and getting blue collar guys that shoot well vs players that create their own shot.
I really want us to focus on skills that compliment AD/Bron vs shot creating.
AD is the key to this whole thing. When AD is AD, we are unbeatable IMO. For AD to be AD, we need a guard like Rondo who is a set up man vs Dennis. I like THT to take over as that second perimeter shot creating role. And unlike Dennis, THT will be cool with a bench role.
The premium skill I would be focusing on this summer is floor spacing around AD and Bron. For us it’s tricky though. We have coach Vogel who needs defenders. So floor spacers who can defend.
I just see nothing positive in awarding this guy for having a crap attitude towards this team this season. Keeping an asset? Imo, that’s only an argument if you are also keeping THT, Caruso. If it’s Caruso, THT and Drummond vs Dennis and one of the former 3, you’re losing assets no mater what. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Those arguing for Dennis the asset.
Question.
Do we all agree that the Lakers will not bringing back Dennis, THT, Caruso and Drummond. Some of these guys will be gone. |
I think Drummond will be gone because we don't have his bird rights and can't pay him more than the mini-mle.
I see no reason why all the other three can't/won't be back. |
Money. |
Yes, you've said that about 10 times.  I'm saying I don't share your assumption that the Lakers won't spend the money. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Wolf, you're looking at it in a vacuum.
There's absolutely a scenario where I see them bringing back Dennis/AC/THT. That doesn't mean all 3 will retire as Lakers. Luxury bills and such are apportioned after the season, not during the season, so I'm sure if cost is the issue, Lakers will take actions to reduce it accordingly.
Drummond, I'm not so sure he is a wise use of the mini MLE.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Yes, if LBJ and AD aren't healthy for the playoffs, the supporting cast doesn't matter much. But when Lebron and Davis went down in the regular season, we needed Schroder. So what would have happened if Schroder missed 20 games? If the top three players on your team are all injury prone, you're just asking for trouble. |
We probably make it in the playoffs still via the play-in. Or we get a higher draft pick. Don't care much about the difference between 1st round out and not making playoffs. Both are failures IMO.
It's pretty binary. Either we win a chip or we don't. Degrees of failure aren't important.
In fact you could argue it's better to completely tank the season if LBJ and AD go down and we have our pick. Maybe we don't have AD right now if we didn't get that 4th pick. |
Not really. In hindsight, we know that Lebron and Davis didn't manage to get healthy and then hold up for the playoffs. But if we didn't make the playoffs, we wouldn't know that. There's an alternative history where Lebron and Davis hold up, and we make a run in the playoffs. That's what we were shooting for.
As for the binary stuff, I don't buy it. Over the years, I've seen lots of people claim that it's championship or nothing for the Lakers. Yeah, right. If we had missed the playoffs, the torches and pitchforks would be out. I would have thought that a few years of missing the playoffs would have gotten this nonsense out of people's heads, but I still hear it.
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RI Laker
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| DS/AC/THT will all come back (unless part of a trade). I really think that DS was starting to gel with AD (AD has spoken favorably about their connection). If you look at the end of the year and playoffs, they were both feeding off each other and usually both had big games together (not a coincidence). |
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PenG_
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| I liked what Pete had to say in the recent pod. You can't be that short, have a low release, and take forever to shoot the damn ball. Playoff basketball will exploit those things. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Yes, if LBJ and AD aren't healthy for the playoffs, the supporting cast doesn't matter much. But when Lebron and Davis went down in the regular season, we needed Schroder. So what would have happened if Schroder missed 20 games? If the top three players on your team are all injury prone, you're just asking for trouble. |
We probably make it in the playoffs still via the play-in. Or we get a higher draft pick. Don't care much about the difference between 1st round out and not making playoffs. Both are failures IMO.
It's pretty binary. Either we win a chip or we don't. Degrees of failure aren't important.
In fact you could argue it's better to completely tank the season if LBJ and AD go down and we have our pick. Maybe we don't have AD right now if we didn't get that 4th pick. |
Not really. In hindsight, we know that Lebron and Davis didn't manage to get healthy and then hold up for the playoffs. But if we didn't make the playoffs, we wouldn't know that. There's an alternative history where Lebron and Davis hold up, and we make a run in the playoffs. That's what we were shooting for.
As for the binary stuff, I don't buy it. Over the years, I've seen lots of people claim that it's championship or nothing for the Lakers. Yeah, right. If we had missed the playoffs, the torches and pitchforks would be out. I would have thought that a few years of missing the playoffs would have gotten this nonsense out of people's heads, but I still hear it. |
The torches and pitchforks are out now. It's fine if you personally take pride in a 1st round out. But I don't think that matches what our franchise wants or what the majority of fans want.
Maybe we don't have AD right now if we didn't get that #4 pick that year by missing the playoffs.
I agree we were hoping LBJ and AD would hold up.
But winning every series on the way to a chip with no homecourt advantage and a team that had their starting SF/PF/C playing less than 50 minutes together all season was always a long shot. LBJ said ahead of time his ankle wasn't gonna be 100% for this run. And Brooklyn's big 3 hands down had too much talent for us to match . So if people were hoping DS was gonna carry the extra load (from a hurt Bron and a team with little chemistry) on the way to a chip, they were detached from reality.
This isn't me speaking in hindsight. I, and many others, said this ahead of time.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Yes, if LBJ and AD aren't healthy for the playoffs, the supporting cast doesn't matter much. But when Lebron and Davis went down in the regular season, we needed Schroder. So what would have happened if Schroder missed 20 games? If the top three players on your team are all injury prone, you're just asking for trouble. |
We probably make it in the playoffs still via the play-in. Or we get a higher draft pick. Don't care much about the difference between 1st round out and not making playoffs. Both are failures IMO.
It's pretty binary. Either we win a chip or we don't. Degrees of failure aren't important.
In fact you could argue it's better to completely tank the season if LBJ and AD go down and we have our pick. Maybe we don't have AD right now if we didn't get that 4th pick. |
Not really. In hindsight, we know that Lebron and Davis didn't manage to get healthy and then hold up for the playoffs. But if we didn't make the playoffs, we wouldn't know that. There's an alternative history where Lebron and Davis hold up, and we make a run in the playoffs. That's what we were shooting for.
As for the binary stuff, I don't buy it. Over the years, I've seen lots of people claim that it's championship or nothing for the Lakers. Yeah, right. If we had missed the playoffs, the torches and pitchforks would be out. I would have thought that a few years of missing the playoffs would have gotten this nonsense out of people's heads, but I still hear it. |
The torches and pitchforks are out now. It's fine if you personally take pride in a 1st round out. But I don't think that matches what our franchise wants or what the majority of fans want.
Maybe we don't have AD right now if we didn't get that #4 pick that year by missing the playoffs.
I agree we were hoping LBJ and AD would hold up.
But winning every series on the way to a chip with no homecourt advantage and a team that had their starting SF/PF/C playing less than 50 minutes together all season was always a long shot. LBJ said ahead of time his ankle wasn't gonna be 100% for this run. And Brooklyn's big 3 hands down had too much talent for us to match . So if people were hoping DS was gonna carry the extra load (from a hurt Bron and a team with little chemistry) on the way to a chip, they were detached from reality.
This isn't me speaking in hindsight. I, and many others, said this ahead of time. |
I think many Lakers fan will say ring or nothing, but people are much happier if we get to the finals and lose than if we get booted in the first round.
The first instance suggests a greater potential for the following season than the second instance.
Basically, Lakers fans want the sense that the team is always a contender, rather than it has to build to become a contender.
This is not a patient fan base. |
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Chick's Magic Johnson
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Those arguing for Dennis the asset.
Question.
Do we all agree that the Lakers will not bringing back Dennis, THT, Caruso and Drummond. Some of these guys will be gone. |
I think Drummond will be gone because we don't have his bird rights and can't pay him more than the mini-mle.
I see no reason why all the other three can't/won't be back. |
Money. |
That "spend smartly" quote has me a bit worried. But, really, money should not be the reason we let any of those players go if they're willing to re-sign. Like, if Caruso gets a 4/75 offer ... I could see us letting him go and doing so probably makes sense. But, if he's in a normal price range (and THT and DS), the only reason we should let any of them go is if we've acquired another player.
The one thing I find curious is how we play the Klutch/THT issue. We need to keep Rich Paul happy ... and we want to keep THT. But, realistically, isn't the best move for THT's career to go somewhere he can get serious minutes? He got 20 MPG last year. If we get him to 26-28 this year, how does that fit in with DS, KCP and AC if we keep all three? |
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cal1piggy
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Yes, if LBJ and AD aren't healthy for the playoffs, the supporting cast doesn't matter much. But when Lebron and Davis went down in the regular season, we needed Schroder. So what would have happened if Schroder missed 20 games? If the top three players on your team are all injury prone, you're just asking for trouble. |
We probably make it in the playoffs still via the play-in. Or we get a higher draft pick. Don't care much about the difference between 1st round out and not making playoffs. Both are failures IMO.
It's pretty binary. Either we win a chip or we don't. Degrees of failure aren't important.
In fact you could argue it's better to completely tank the season if LBJ and AD go down and we have our pick. Maybe we don't have AD right now if we didn't get that 4th pick. |
Not really. In hindsight, we know that Lebron and Davis didn't manage to get healthy and then hold up for the playoffs. But if we didn't make the playoffs, we wouldn't know that. There's an alternative history where Lebron and Davis hold up, and we make a run in the playoffs. That's what we were shooting for.
As for the binary stuff, I don't buy it. Over the years, I've seen lots of people claim that it's championship or nothing for the Lakers. Yeah, right. If we had missed the playoffs, the torches and pitchforks would be out. I would have thought that a few years of missing the playoffs would have gotten this nonsense out of people's heads, but I still hear it. |
The torches and pitchforks are out now. It's fine if you personally take pride in a 1st round out. But I don't think that matches what our franchise wants or what the majority of fans want.
Maybe we don't have AD right now if we didn't get that #4 pick that year by missing the playoffs.
I agree we were hoping LBJ and AD would hold up.
But winning every series on the way to a chip with no homecourt advantage and a team that had their starting SF/PF/C playing less than 50 minutes together all season was always a long shot. LBJ said ahead of time his ankle wasn't gonna be 100% for this run. And Brooklyn's big 3 hands down had too much talent for us to match . So if people were hoping DS was gonna carry the extra load (from a hurt Bron and a team with little chemistry) on the way to a chip, they were detached from reality.
This isn't me speaking in hindsight. I, and many others, said this ahead of time. |
I think many Lakers fan will say ring or nothing, but people are much happier if we get to the finals and lose than if we get booted in the first round.
The first instance suggests a greater potential for the following season than the second instance.
Basically, Lakers fans want the sense that the team is always a contender, rather than it has to build to become a contender.
This is not a patient fan base. |
playoffs success is irrelevant if no ring, at least to me. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | The torches and pitchforks are out now. It's fine if you personally take pride in a 1st round out. But I don't think that matches what our franchise wants or what the majority of fans want. |
"Want" is not the issue. Every team wants to win a title. I just think that those of you who claim that making the playoffs is irrelevant without a title are kidding yourselves. I would have thought that a few years of missing the playoffs would have broken you of this delusion, but apparently not. But hey, we average 2.5 titles per decade, right? I guess you're dissatisfied only 75% of the time.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | | playoffs success is irrelevant if no ring, at least to me. |
A ring is all that matters to me. That's why I'm a Lakers fan and not a Clippers fan.
That's also why I would love to have DS back. Just at a price and in a role that that helps us win a chip. Either directly or indirectly (as a trade asset).
Only player I've ever loved arguably more than the team is Kobe. But considering he played 2 decades exclusively for us. Kobe and the Lakers franchise were practically synonymous.
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RI Laker
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I do not believe in the spend wisely philosophy. Our window is closing faster than Rosie O'Donnell eating a cheeseburger. We need to go all in NOW because before you know it, we could be bottom feeders again. We realistically have one more year of playing for a championship (2 at most). If we don't win a championship, our season is a failure. We need to pass the leprechauns. |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | I do not believe in the spend wisely philosophy. Our window is closing faster than Rosie O'Donnell eating a cheeseburger. We need to go all in NOW because before you know it, we could be bottom feeders again. We realistically have one more year of playing for a championship (2 at most). If we don't win a championship, our season is a failure. We need to pass the leprechauns. |
Count the 1947 Championship! We have 18 rings! (updated) |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | | activeverb wrote: |
I think many Lakers fan will say ring or nothing, but people are much happier if we get to the finals and lose than if we get booted in the first round.
The first instance suggests a greater potential for the following season than the second instance.
Basically, Lakers fans want the sense that the team is always a contender, rather than it has to build to become a contender.
This is not a patient fan base. |
playoffs success is irrelevant if no ring, at least to me. |
To each their own. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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I will say this, I much rather have a long offseason for AD and Bron, and no ring than a long playoffs run and no ring, shorter offseason. The wear and tear will be all but gone season start. It will be all about maintaining their health and peaking at the right time, something we failed to do this season.
I do agree Dennis helped the team assure a 7th seed when AD and Bron were out. Playoff continuity is good for the franchise. |
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GOODRICH25
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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When was the last time a team which had a ball dominant, shoot first, not great defense 6th man type of guard, won a title?
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| GOODRICH25 wrote: | | When was the last time a team which had a ball dominant, shoot first, not great defense 6th man type of guard, won a title? |
First person who came to mind for me was JR Smith on the Cavs last ring team a few years ago.
Oh, and for what it's worth, Dennis Schroeder generally got good reviews on his defense this year, and he even got several votes for the all defensive team. |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | GOODRICH25 wrote: | | When was the last time a team which had a ball dominant, shoot first, not great defense 6th man type of guard, won a title? |
First person who came to mind for me was JR Smith on the Cavs last ring team a few years ago.
Oh, and for what it's worth, Dennis Schroeder generally got good reviews on his defense this year, and he even got several votes for the all defensive team. |
Shhhhh |
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epic_
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | GOODRICH25 wrote: | | When was the last time a team which had a ball dominant, shoot first, not great defense 6th man type of guard, won a title? |
First person who came to mind for me was JR Smith on the Cavs last ring team a few years ago.
Oh, and for what it's worth, Dennis Schroeder generally got good reviews on his defense this year, and he even got several votes for the all defensive team. |
Shhhhh |
Eddie House?
Vinnie Johnson?
Doesn't seem too often.
Maybe Jordan Clarkson this year.
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Japago
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Do you guys believe that some guys just play well in the postseason and some don't?
Ben Simmons is an example of a guy that just doesn't. Khris Middleton is an example of a guy that does.
Dennis Schroder just seems to struggle in the postseason. That has been in the back of my mind with him since he got to the Lakers, mostly influenced by remembering his performance in the bubble. I don't know what happened in 2017(he had insanely good numbers), but he usually seems to struggle.
My point is, maybe we should be accounting for guys struggling in the postseason when we consider who we should want on the team. Postseason success is the goal at the end of the day. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Japago wrote: | Do you guys believe that some guys just play well in the postseason and some don't?
Ben Simmons is an example of a guy that just doesn't. Khris Middleton is an example of a guy that does.
Dennis Schroder just seems to struggle in the postseason. That has been in the back of my mind with him since he got to the Lakers, mostly influenced by remembering his performance in the bubble. I don't know what happened in 2017(he had insanely good numbers), but he usually seems to struggle.
My point is, maybe we should be accounting for guys struggling in the postseason when we consider who we should want on the team. Postseason success is the goal at the end of the day. |
I don't think either Simmon's or Schroder's performance in the playoffs overall is really that much different than their performance in the regular season. It may just seem that way because Simmons just had a bad game and Schroder had a bad series.
To your main point: I don't think it's all that easy to clearly determine who is a good or bad playoff performer until they are pretty far along in their careers and have a substantial track record.
In 2017, Schroder was coming off a 25-2-8 playoff performance so if you put up this post then you might be saying he is the type of excellent playoff performer we need. Ditto if you had written this last year you might point to Middleton's poor playoff shooting. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Japago wrote: | Do you guys believe that some guys just play well in the postseason and some don't?
Ben Simmons is an example of a guy that just doesn't. Khris Middleton is an example of a guy that does.
Dennis Schroder just seems to struggle in the postseason. That has been in the back of my mind with him since he got to the Lakers, mostly influenced by remembering his performance in the bubble. I don't know what happened in 2017(he had insanely good numbers), but he usually seems to struggle.
My point is, maybe we should be accounting for guys struggling in the postseason when we consider who we should want on the team. Postseason success is the goal at the end of the day. |
I don't think either Simmon's or Schroder's performance in the playoffs overall is really that much different than their performance in the regular season. It may just seem that way because Simmons just had a bad game and Schroder had a bad series.
To your main point: I don't think it's all that easy to clearly determine who is a good or bad playoff performer until they are pretty far along in their careers and have a substantial track record.
In 2017, Schroder was coming off a 25-2-8 playoff performance so if you put up this post then you might be saying he is the type of excellent playoff performer we need. Ditto if you had written this last year you might point to Middleton's poor playoff shooting. |
Schroeder had a bad game. Simmons had a bad series.
Games 1-3 of the Phoenix series 19/2/3 1.7 stls a game
Game 4 and Game 5 4/4/2 0 stls a game
Series on the line Game 5 20/3/3
So Schroeder had 4 out of 6 games that were good in our series. But his 1 underwhelming game and 1 horrible game gets used against him like he was that way THE ENTIRE SERIES, and his gutsy performance in Game 6 gets all but forgotten because people already made up their minds.
Simmons entire SERIES was like what Schroeder did in Games 4 and 5. Philly WISHES that Simmons gave them what Schroeder gave us in Games 1,2,3 and 6. Because had he, Philly would have won the series.
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cal1piggy
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | activeverb wrote: |
I think many Lakers fan will say ring or nothing, but people are much happier if we get to the finals and lose than if we get booted in the first round.
The first instance suggests a greater potential for the following season than the second instance.
Basically, Lakers fans want the sense that the team is always a contender, rather than it has to build to become a contender.
This is not a patient fan base. |
playoffs success is irrelevant if no ring, at least to me. |
To each their own. |
perhaps someone does a poll |
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