Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 4752 Location: Next door to 24
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:31 pm Post subject:
The title is classic DB. Perfect.
Dennis was offered a 1 year deal exceeding the full MLE before we signed Nunn. We tried to "keep some future value" in him. He turned us down. Btw we would not have used the mMle if he accepted to Nunn is his direct replacement. Once Nunn was signed a S&T became exceeding hard to pull off.
Dennis was offered a 1 year deal exceeding the full MLE before we signed Nunn. We tried to "keep some future value" in him. He turned us down. Btw we would not have used the mMle if he accepted to Nunn is his direct replacement. Once Nunn was signed a S&T became exceeding hard to pull off.
My point is that we traded Green and a 1st and at the end of the day it resulted in nothing back. It’s not even about Dennis for me but just wish we could have gotten something for that. I was wrong about Dennis but that doesn’t negate the fact that we couldn’t get anything in return.
I'm sure Rob tried to include DS in trades for WB and possible other trades we don't know about, but trading DS was lower priority than getting someone to replace him and suitable role players.
Rather let him walk than compound it by making a bad trade. Dennis didn't help Rob help him either. Is what it is.
My point is that we traded Green and a 1st and at the end of the day it resulted in nothing back. It’s not even about Dennis for me but just wish we could have gotten something for that. I was wrong about Dennis but that doesn’t negate the fact that we couldn’t get anything in return.
You are right. We should have got something for him. We blew an opportunity to at least get a trade exception (and stay even with the Nets who got a nice one). This should have been the minimum we got back and unfortunately, it may come to bite us down the road.
Stop trolling...the masses can’t understan the critique.
We traded for Schro as if to rush into a deal before the bidding war began. We just witnessed the bidding war and yikes. Strike 1.
Offered dude a 4yr/84m extension cause it seemed like our FO actually valued him as a key cog for the future rather than an a walking FA that could potentially be lost as an asset. Strike 2.
We then were rumored to have zero dialogue with Schro, confirming we were comfortable in letting an asset go for nothing. They doubled down on that confirmation by doing the same with AC.
Kuz/Kcp/Trez was a 36m cap hit on our books. The FO decided, why not fork over 8m more in salary (and associated taxes) to go get Russ...a third star! They didn’t mind paying the star tax, cause stars make a profit. If it sincerely were about #18, then AC would be on the books and a Schro TPE would be too. But it’s not...it’s about profiting off star power and mounting their star sized egos in hopes of driving home a title. Remember, a TPE is tax free if not used...but the pressure would be intense for them to use it during a title run. But if it weren’t on the books to begin with, the tax man can’t come get you when you decide to cash in on the TPE.
Folks believe that’s just certain fans picking on the FO every chance they get...nah, we just pointing out the inconvenient truth. Try to controll your feelings. And if you can’t, that’s tuff 💯 _________________ Not familiar with the salary cap/CBA rules & how it impacts our Lakers?
#GetFamiliar by CLICKING HERE!
The FO wanted to rebuild the team completely. Around AD-Bron.
I am not sure exactly why they decided to go for a full revamping of the roster around AD-Bron, but when they did, sign and trades of our FAs made even less sense because you were not looking to add salary.
IF the justification is that they feel the new guys they brought in were better. I don’t think it’s easy to pull off sign and trades. Look around the league, how many sign and trades happen these days?
Will miss Caruso. However 37M is a lot for him. Happy for him. I don’t think he’s worth that money, even as a HUGE Caruso fan. See is as when State gave Fisher 36M when he was like a 3M a year starter.
Joined: 19 Nov 2007 Posts: 4377 Location: Lake Nacimiento
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:51 pm Post subject:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
The FO wanted to rebuild the team completely. Around AD-Bron.
I am not sure exactly why they decided to go for a full revamping of the roster around AD-Bron, but when they did, sign and trades of our FAs made even less sense because you were not looking to add salary.
IF the justification is that they feel the new guys they brought in were better. I don’t think it’s easy to pull off sign and trades. Look around the league, how many sign and trades happen these days?
Will miss Caruso. However 37M is a lot for him. Happy for him. I don’t think he’s worth that money, even as a HUGE Caruso fan. See is as when State gave Fisher 36M when he was like a 3M a year starter.
Pretty much, I love Caruso but understand 100% letting him go at that price.. He's not worth that money and amount of years imo.
Then they got Dennis's replacement for dirt cheap and are already way over the cap so why would they s&t him just to do it? I have no doubt Rob did plenty of poking around to get an exception and a pick but obviously nothing came to fruition whether it was no team wanted to do it or Dennis wanted no part of helping the Lakers. I highly doubt Rob just said nahhh we wont do it because fans would expect us to use the TPE so let's just ignore Dennis and move on.. There is no way I believe that was how things went down. It's too bad we couldn't get something back but i'd say he did just fine in free agency to cover most holes on the roster with a few spots left to get a bit better depth by the Playoffs.
All I know is for the 3rd straight year now we are a top Contender and have very likely more depth then the previous two years.
People are harping on the small negatives so much it's kind of ridiculous at this point. There's not a single GM in the League that's batting anywhere remotely close to perfect, that's the game when you're a GM and the rest of the leagues GM's all have the same exact goal as you do. I do know Rob has never showed panic even when his top plan's don't work out. I get still being a bit hesitant about him but he's done a pretty damn good job overall and it's been nice to be a Lakers fan again expecting greatness instead of "hoping for growth" to possibly be a good team soon.
Pointing out these nit picks at every possible turn is just kind of petty at this point. We got it and understand fully but let's move on now and enjoy being once again a top contender to win it all.
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8351 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:32 pm Post subject:
Although Rob has done a pretty good job the last couple years as GM, the narrative that he and the rest of the FO has managed assets badly is true. In fact, it goes back way before Rob even became Kobe's agent.
In the late 90s, we traded Nick Van Exel for the NBA equivalent of used toilet paper. I know he was seen as a malcontent at the time, but he had several more very good years left.
Around the same time we traded Eddie Jones, another good player, for Glen Rice and J.R. Reid. Reid did nothing, and Rice was on the downside of his career and didn't fit into the triangle offense. Rice was then traded for Horace Grant, who gave us one good year, then left as a FA.
During the threepeat years we did a bad job of drafting, passing up good players like Andrei Kirilenko, Michael Redd, Carlos Boozer and Ginobili. Drafting just one of those guys could've changed history for the better.
I'm not saying we need to strike it rich on every single asset, but we need to do a much better job of managing them, especially as the inevitable post-LeBron rebuild nears.
Although Rob has done a pretty good job the last couple years as GM, the narrative that he and the rest of the FO has managed assets badly is true. In fact, it goes back way before Rob even became Kobe's agent.
In the late 90s, we traded Nick Van Exel for the NBA equivalent of used toilet paper. I know he was seen as a malcontent at the time, but he had several more very good years left.
Around the same time we traded Eddie Jones, another good player, for Glen Rice and J.R. Reid. Reid did nothing, and Rice was on the downside of his career and didn't fit into the triangle offense. Rice was then traded for Horace Grant, who gave us one good year, then left as a FA.
During the threepeat years we did a bad job of drafting, passing up good players like Andrei Kirilenko, Michael Redd, Carlos Boozer and Ginobili. Drafting just one of those guys could've changed history for the better.
I'm not saying we need to strike it rich on every single asset, but we need to do a much better job of managing them, especially as the inevitable post-LeBron rebuild nears.
I wonder how much Dr. Buss influenced some of those decisions. Other comments give the impression that Buss would spend big on the stars but not the role players or the staff.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35854 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:08 pm Post subject:
bluehill wrote:
slavavov wrote:
Although Rob has done a pretty good job the last couple years as GM, the narrative that he and the rest of the FO has managed assets badly is true. In fact, it goes back way before Rob even became Kobe's agent.
In the late 90s, we traded Nick Van Exel for the NBA equivalent of used toilet paper. I know he was seen as a malcontent at the time, but he had several more very good years left.
Around the same time we traded Eddie Jones, another good player, for Glen Rice and J.R. Reid. Reid did nothing, and Rice was on the downside of his career and didn't fit into the triangle offense. Rice was then traded for Horace Grant, who gave us one good year, then left as a FA.
During the threepeat years we did a bad job of drafting, passing up good players like Andrei Kirilenko, Michael Redd, Carlos Boozer and Ginobili. Drafting just one of those guys could've changed history for the better.
I'm not saying we need to strike it rich on every single asset, but we need to do a much better job of managing them, especially as the inevitable post-LeBron rebuild nears.
I wonder how much Dr. Buss influenced some of those decisions. Other comments give the impression that Buss would spend big on the stars but not the role players or the staff.
Mitch was a mediocre GM who got lucky when Chris Wallace offered to trade him Pau for garbage. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
For me the primary concern was always making sure to benefit from the asset. Rob did a masterful job getting quality talent on mostly min deals, and getting Nunn at the price he did.
But we did let the salary of what was once Green/1st go for nothing. Now if we have to make a trade in the future it’s tough bc THT is basically the only non star/MMLE deal we can package. Dennis is gone and like I’ve said I’m 100% ok with that (especially since I’m really starting to love WB’s potential on this team). But it puts immense pressure on this team to basically lose two cap assets (the 15m salary that was Danny/Dennis and the 1st round pick).
Your not preserving anything when you sign a player to a deal that you can’t trade.
That was the position you vehemently argued against for months and months. So let’s make sure we provide the proper context here.
When you trade a first round pick, along with $15mil in salary for a player, and ultimately receive nothing in return, you cripple your team's ability to keep the engine's parts (anyone other than LeBron's & AD) as fine tuned as possible.
Rob did compensate this off season, and did a great job, but possible deals like being able to add both Westbrook and Hield might have been doable if you had Schroder's sign & trade salary to work with.
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8351 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:25 pm Post subject:
bluehill wrote:
slavavov wrote:
Although Rob has done a pretty good job the last couple years as GM, the narrative that he and the rest of the FO has managed assets badly is true. In fact, it goes back way before Rob even became Kobe's agent.
In the late 90s, we traded Nick Van Exel for the NBA equivalent of used toilet paper. I know he was seen as a malcontent at the time, but he had several more very good years left.
Around the same time we traded Eddie Jones, another good player, for Glen Rice and J.R. Reid. Reid did nothing, and Rice was on the downside of his career and didn't fit into the triangle offense. Rice was then traded for Horace Grant, who gave us one good year, then left as a FA.
During the threepeat years we did a bad job of drafting, passing up good players like Andrei Kirilenko, Michael Redd, Carlos Boozer and Ginobili. Drafting just one of those guys could've changed history for the better.
I'm not saying we need to strike it rich on every single asset, but we need to do a much better job of managing them, especially as the inevitable post-LeBron rebuild nears.
I wonder how much Dr. Buss influenced some of those decisions. Other comments give the impression that Buss would spend big on the stars but not the role players or the staff.
From what I've read that was his MO, although maybe it was because he was preparing for the day when he wasn't around and his kids would inherit the team, and he wanted to lower the estate taxes that would have to be paid.
Mitch was a mediocre GM who got lucky when Chris Wallace offered to trade him Pau for garbage.
He stockpiled assets and only really made one bad trade (the Kwame for Caron move) which was a calculated risk. He doled out some questionable contracts tending to overpay but in general he was a quality GM whose biggest weakness was that he was overcautious.
Saying he lucked into the Gasol trade is unfair to him though. He had multiple other moves in recent years that he passed that people were very angry at him for not making. Jason Kidd comes to mind. Deals that would have sent out Bynum and Odom in some of them and as we saw in retrospect they were for players who were on their last legs. If he makes any of those moves the Lakers don't get another title in the Kobe era.
It also glosses over the fact that he brought in Howard for Bynum when Howard was the best center in the league and Bynum's career was all but over (only nobody else it). He made a move for Chris Paul that would have happened alongside that which not only would have acquired Chris Paul in his prime, but would have saved them money while unloading Odom right before his career derailed and Pau as his career started to go downhill. It was such a good deal that David Stern tarnished his legacy to prevent and never gave a good explanation for why.
I think the way his tenure as a Laker ended will hurt him. He'll be remembered for the Mozgov and Deng contracts that the Lakers rolled the dice with after years of careful building because they were up against a win now deadline. But it doesn't change the fact that he rebuilt a team from championship favorites to only Kobe, Slava, and Walton remaining.... Back to another title with little in the way of assets in a three year span.
Mitch was a mediocre GM who got lucky when Chris Wallace offered to trade him Pau for garbage.
He stockpiled assets and only really made one bad trade (the Kwame for Caron move) which was a calculated risk. He doled out some questionable contracts tending to overpay but in general he was a quality GM whose biggest weakness was that he was overcautious.
Saying he lucked into the Gasol trade is unfair to him though. He had multiple other moves in recent years that he passed that people were very angry at him for not making. Jason Kidd comes to mind. Deals that would have sent out Bynum and Odom in some of them and as we saw in retrospect they were for players who were on their last legs. If he makes any of those moves the Lakers don't get another title in the Kobe era.
It also glosses over the fact that he brought in Howard for Bynum when Howard was the best center in the league and Bynum's career was all but over (only nobody else it). He made a move for Chris Paul that would have happened alongside that which not only would have acquired Chris Paul in his prime, but would have saved them money while unloading Odom right before his career derailed and Pau as his career started to go downhill. It was such a good deal that David Stern tarnished his legacy to prevent and never gave a good explanation for why.
I think the way his tenure as a Laker ended will hurt him. He'll be remembered for the Mozgov and Deng contracts that the Lakers rolled the dice with after years of careful building because they were up against a win now deadline. But it doesn't change the fact that he rebuilt a team from championship favorites to only Kobe, Slava, and Walton remaining.... Back to another title with little in the way of assets in a three year span.
Mitch was a great GM. Only a few understood the financial constraints under which he had to operate.
The Caron for Kwame trade was a genius move and was done strictly to acquire Kwame's contract as a trade asset for a future deal. The Pau Gasol trade was 3 years in the making, with the Lakers feeling out the Grizzlies and having the exact pieces that Memphis wanted (big expiring deal in Kwame, two future FRP & the Laker's best youngsters in Marc Gasol & JCritt) when Memphis was ready to pull the trigger.
The Lakers burned a lot of picks because Buss didn't want to pay unproven kids the 1st round guaranteed money, and they blew some draft picks doing favors for agents and coaches.
My only two complaints about Mitch's tenure are:
1) Ignoring Ron Harper's scouting report and drafting Brian Cook over Leandro Barbosa,
2) MozDeng. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Last edited by Dr. Laker on Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:40 am; edited 2 times in total
As expected, he's turned into another KCP. He'll be lucky if he ever makes more than $10M/yr again. _________________ Playoffs is good enough. - Jeanie Buss 2024
Although Rob has done a pretty good job the last couple years as GM, the narrative that he and the rest of the FO has managed assets badly is true. In fact, it goes back way before Rob even became Kobe's agent.
In the late 90s, we traded Nick Van Exel for the NBA equivalent of used toilet paper. I know he was seen as a malcontent at the time, but he had several more very good years left.
Around the same time we traded Eddie Jones, another good player, for Glen Rice and J.R. Reid. Reid did nothing, and Rice was on the downside of his career and didn't fit into the triangle offense. Rice was then traded for Horace Grant, who gave us one good year, then left as a FA.
During the threepeat years we did a bad job of drafting, passing up good players like Andrei Kirilenko, Michael Redd, Carlos Boozer and Ginobili. Drafting just one of those guys could've changed history for the better.
I'm not saying we need to strike it rich on every single asset, but we need to do a much better job of managing them, especially as the inevitable post-LeBron rebuild nears.
I disagree with the drafting comment. Basically, you are just chastizing the Lakers for not grabbing all the unexpected, second-round sleepers that everyone missed. By that standard, everyone sucks at drafting. If you get a second-round sleeper like that once a decade, you're doing great. Overall, our drafting has been solid.
Sure, the Van Exel and Glen Rice trades were debatable.
But we're also made some great trades -- Gasol, Ariza, Horry, Odom, Kobe.
I have no issues with our asset management overall.
Although Rob has done a pretty good job the last couple years as GM, the narrative that he and the rest of the FO has managed assets badly is true. In fact, it goes back way before Rob even became Kobe's agent.
In the late 90s, we traded Nick Van Exel for the NBA equivalent of used toilet paper. I know he was seen as a malcontent at the time, but he had several more very good years left.
Around the same time we traded Eddie Jones, another good player, for Glen Rice and J.R. Reid. Reid did nothing, and Rice was on the downside of his career and didn't fit into the triangle offense. Rice was then traded for Horace Grant, who gave us one good year, then left as a FA.
During the threepeat years we did a bad job of drafting, passing up good players like Andrei Kirilenko, Michael Redd, Carlos Boozer and Ginobili. Drafting just one of those guys could've changed history for the better.
I'm not saying we need to strike it rich on every single asset, but we need to do a much better job of managing them, especially as the inevitable post-LeBron rebuild nears.
I wonder how much Dr. Buss influenced some of those decisions. Other comments give the impression that Buss would spend big on the stars but not the role players or the staff.
Mitch was a mediocre GM who got lucky when Chris Wallace offered to trade him Pau for garbage.
I thought Mitch was a good GM overall.
I rate a GM by the totality of the moves the FO made during his tenure.
I think it's pointless to try to decide how much credit specific individuals get for each decision.
If you do that and start cherry picking (the good moves were "luck" and don't count), you're just defining things to create the outcome you want to get.
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8351 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:57 pm Post subject:
activeverb wrote:
slavavov wrote:
Although Rob has done a pretty good job the last couple years as GM, the narrative that he and the rest of the FO has managed assets badly is true. In fact, it goes back way before Rob even became Kobe's agent.
In the late 90s, we traded Nick Van Exel for the NBA equivalent of used toilet paper. I know he was seen as a malcontent at the time, but he had several more very good years left.
Around the same time we traded Eddie Jones, another good player, for Glen Rice and J.R. Reid. Reid did nothing, and Rice was on the downside of his career and didn't fit into the triangle offense. Rice was then traded for Horace Grant, who gave us one good year, then left as a FA.
During the threepeat years we did a bad job of drafting, passing up good players like Andrei Kirilenko, Michael Redd, Carlos Boozer and Ginobili. Drafting just one of those guys could've changed history for the better.
I'm not saying we need to strike it rich on every single asset, but we need to do a much better job of managing them, especially as the inevitable post-LeBron rebuild nears.
I disagree with the drafting comment. Basically, you are just chastizing the Lakers for not grabbing all the unexpected, second-round sleepers that everyone missed. By that standard, everyone sucks at drafting. If you get a second-round sleeper like that once a decade, you're doing great. Overall, our drafting has been solid.
Sure, the Van Exel and Glen Rice trades were debatable.
But we're also made some great trades -- Gasol, Ariza, Horry, Odom, Kobe.
I have no issues with our asset management overall.
I'm not saying the Lakers should've drafted all the guys I mentioned. Just draft one of them and it would've changed the whole complexion of 2002-04 when the Shaq/Kobe teams were in decline, as well as after that.
Everyone thinks if Shaq and Kobe stuck around they would've won several more titles. I say no because by 2004 we had no depth or serviceable young players left. Drafting a Kirilenko, Redd, Boozer or Ginobili (just one of them) would've allowed Shaq and Kobe to continue to win championships if they got their stuff together, or for us to rebuild faster otherwise.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67712 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:11 pm Post subject:
Ron's playing close to the vest, like a riverboat gambler. He went all in, going for the gold. He's building a champions ship roster. It's championship or bust. The players he signed have a let's go all out attitude. Some fans think they're old. They're gonna prove to the basketball world, they're not. I can dig it.
This is the season we go by the Leprechauns. Whether or not any want to admit it Bron's window is closing. LET'S DO IT!! _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Mitch was a mediocre GM who got lucky when Chris Wallace offered to trade him Pau for garbage.
The Pau trade actually a really good deal for the Grizz. They ended up with a star in Marc, the cap room was used to trade for Zach Randolph and they had a run of playoffs appearances starting in 2010 with at least 7 players on the team whose roots came from the Gasol deal. They made it to the conference finals and with Pau they never got past the 1st round.
Mitch was a mediocre GM who got lucky when Chris Wallace offered to trade him Pau for garbage.
The Pau trade actually a really good deal for the Grizz. They ended up with a star in Marc, the cap room was used to trade for Zach Randolph and they had a run of playoffs appearances starting in 2010 with at least 7 players on the team whose roots came from the Gasol deal. They made it to the conference finals and with Pau they never got past the 1st round.
Bingo. Trading Pau turned around their fortunes.
Marc Gasol in Memphis was:
DPOY
1st Team ALL-NBA
2nd Team ALL-NBA
3X All Star
They just couldn't get past the Spurs or the Warriors. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Joined: 18 May 2001 Posts: 1548 Location: Venice, California
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:32 am Post subject:
I love how the Celtics press is spinning the lowball hire as brilliant. If I was A remaining allstar on the squad I would call my agent about leaving. I’ve been a blind supporter of moves the Lakers have made in the past I guess. I got on the Alonzo train, heck I even looked forward to Cedric Ceballos. I don’t think I would entertain a troubled player that froze in the playoffs. Unless I was going to trash my whole roster and fire sale a total rebuild.
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