Welcome DENNIS SCHRÖDER (Acquired for Danny Green and the 28th Pick)
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:56 am    Post subject:

SIXTH MAN OF THE YEAR

2015 — Lou Williams | $5,450,000
2016 — Jamal Crawford | $5,675,000
2017 — Eric Gordon | $12,385,364
2018 — Lou Williams | $7,000,000
2019 — Lou Williams | $8,000,000
2020 — Montrezl Harrell | $6,000,000
2021 — Jordan Clarkson | $11,500,000
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:58 am    Post subject:

How does one value a sixth man ((runner up)) at $16-18 million? That’s more than twice market value!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:59 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
SIXTH MAN OF THE YEAR

2015 — Lou Williams | $5,450,000
2016 — Jamal Crawford | $5,675,000
2017 — Eric Gordon | $12,385,364
2018 — Lou Williams | $7,000,000
2019 — Lou Williams | $8,000,000
2020 — Montrezl Harrell | $6,000,000
2021 — Jordan Clarkson | $11,500,000


Yeah I pointed this out awhile ago.

I think in the history of the award the only man who ever got paid more than what Schroder wants was Harden... and I think we can all agree that Schroder is no Harden. Harden was shooting about 20% better than Schroder when he was a sixth man.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:59 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
How does one value a sixth man ((runner up)) at $16-18 million? That’s more than twice market value!


haha exactly. I mean i want to get paid million per day. but its not happening.
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Reds622
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:57 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
SIXTH MAN OF THE YEAR

2015 — Lou Williams | $5,450,000
2016 — Jamal Crawford | $5,675,000
2017 — Eric Gordon | $12,385,364
2018 — Lou Williams | $7,000,000
2019 — Lou Williams | $8,000,000
2020 — Montrezl Harrell | $6,000,000
2021 — Jordan Clarkson | $11,500,000


You mean some posters on here are just throwing out arbitrary numbers... just because... and pawning them off as reasonable?

Is that really happening?

Can't be..
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:48 am    Post subject:

instead of "welcome" in the subject, it should be "go away"
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lakersfever714
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:04 am    Post subject:

Awesome signing. Thanks Rob. Executive of the decade!

DS should learn from KCP. KCP turned down 5-yr/$80M from the Pistons years ago and look at how much he's been making since.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:33 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
At least Yinoma keeps lowering the number so that's a good sign. If you take 21 million and start going to 17 to 18... my mind starts thinking it's a viable possibility.


I'm not sure that's feasible. If we drop from our prior offer, it just makes the situation with Schroder worse. It's justified, but we'd need to be prepared for the ego issues with Schroder and (especially) his agent.


My point was that if one of his most ardent defenders is seeing the reality of the situation... which is that all social media... Twitter, Reddit, LG hate Schroder right now... it puts pressure on the front office not to make an unpopular choice which they would get blamed for if the team crashes and burn next season. LBJ and AD will never be scapegoated so that leaves Schroder as the lightning rod for criticism next year.

Denver will be stronger with Murray and improving MPJ... GSW will be stronger with the return of Klay and Wiseman... Phoenix and Utah will be more playoff hardened no matter what happens this season... And that's not even talking about how dangerous Brooklyn looks or if Kawhi and company get their ish together.

Our likelihood of failure is very high no matter what we do... but if we just stand pat and roll with Schroder... I'm guessing people will come for Rob's head next season.

Again... we should try some sort of Hail Mary trade or signing... at least something good might come of it... and if it doesn't... well, we were going to be in rebuild anyway over the next few years.


Again, objectively, I always valued him at 16-18m.

Lakers were the ones that pinned his value at 21m/year. AH has a great point but that's why it will be an interesting negotiation. I'd say however, Dennis does have the overall leverage advantage over the Lakers.


You have said you valued him at that price all along... but at the same time you've justified the overpay in the context of a difficult situation.

That's where we differ.

You might well be right... I can acknowledge that... Maybe we can move him at a higher price... I just don't agree that we can.

You've always mentioned the possibility of the salary cap inflation possibly diluting the negative effects of a Schroder overpay... and I can understand that as well.

I just think even 18 is an overpay though at that point I can at least imagine some hope of him being moveable... you think he might be moveable at 21.

I was simply pointing out that you weren't mentioning 21 as a number in your more recent posts so to me that was a good sign.

I honestly don't care about Schroder's mental state as some other poster mentioned... I don't get how more toxic he can get than he was this year.

If he f*cks off to Europe nothing would make me happier at this point.

I'd be happy to roll with THT and AC... I know you think THT isn't ready but West let Kobe make his mistakes and we only need THT to replace Schroder not Kobe.


Yup. My point was that even if my FMV was 16-18m, the Lakers (not me) would not dither over a few million difference. They did not and offered him a 21m/year extension, which he foolishly rejected.

Now, is that same 21m offer on the table? Hope not, as they have valid grounds to negotiate downwards. But Rob has put himself and the Lakers in a pickle and I think they will bite whatever the bullet is to retain him, and then deal accordingly down the road.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:34 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
How does one value a sixth man ((runner up)) at $16-18 million? That’s more than twice market value!


Because this year he was played as a starting guard. That's probably average to what a starting NBA point guard gets. But then you have to factor in our precarious asset deprived, capped out situation and it's inbuilt, the excess.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:54 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
How does one value a sixth man ((runner up)) at $16-18 million? That’s more than twice market value!


Because this year he was played as a starting guard. That's probably average to what a starting NBA point guard gets. But then you have to factor in our precarious asset deprived, capped out situation and it's inbuilt, the excess.


And he was already making $15.5M before his big season in OKC.
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:02 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
How does one value a sixth man ((runner up)) at $16-18 million? That’s more than twice market value!


Because this year he was played as a starting guard. That's probably average to what a starting NBA point guard gets. But then you have to factor in our precarious asset deprived, capped out situation and it's inbuilt, the excess.


Smush Parker was our starting point guard. It doesn’t mean he was worth $16-18 million.

Dennis Schroder is a backup because he is wildly inconsistent. 20 points one night, struggle to scratch the next. When he isn’t scoring, what does he do to help the team? He doesn’t create for others. He doesn’t defend. He doesn’t even shoot 3’s. He’s a bad fit with Vogel. He’s a bad fit with Lebron. So why do we need him?
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:15 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
How does one value a sixth man ((runner up)) at $16-18 million? That’s more than twice market value!


Because this year he was played as a starting guard. That's probably average to what a starting NBA point guard gets. But then you have to factor in our precarious asset deprived, capped out situation and it's inbuilt, the excess.


Smush Parker was our starting point guard. It doesn’t mean he was worth $16-18 million.

Dennis Schroder is a backup because he is wildly inconsistent. 20 points one night, struggle to scratch the next. When he isn’t scoring, what does he do to help the team? He doesn’t create for others. He doesn’t defend. He doesn’t even shoot 3’s. He’s a bad fit with Vogel. He’s a bad fit with Lebron. So why do we need him?


If you think he’s bad I’d suggest you look at the rest of our roster during these playoffs too. But for me it’s mostly capturing an asset that we can keep or trade. We cannot get nothing for him.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:25 pm    Post subject:

If Schröder doesn’t budge on lowering his asking price and no viable sign and trade scenarios arise, then the FO should be prepared to let him walk. Yes we can lose him for nothing if the alternative is to turn him into an immovable asset, who is a poor fit to boot. You extend him on a reasonable deal, you sign and trade him or you let him walk.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:29 pm    Post subject:

Danny Green had 8 assists in game 2 win today

Dennis?

Never had more than 4 assists and in the last 3 games (all losses) had a combined 7 assists.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:58 pm    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
Awesome signing. Thanks Rob. Executive of the decade!

DS should learn from KCP. KCP turned down 5-yr/$80M from the Pistons years ago and look at how much he's been making since.


If we were able to trade for a player like Terry Rozier or Eric Bledsoe, it would be a lot like the KCP situation (Detroit traded for Avery Bradley). It remains to be seen if Rob has a good backup plan though.

Quote:
Danny Green had 8 assists in game 2 win today

Dennis? Never had more than 4 assists and in the last 3 games (all losses) had a combined 7 assists.


Yup, definitely lost that trade. Green is a guy who buys in and readily sacrifices for the team.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:02 pm    Post subject:

Danny Green had four points in 30 minutes in game 1. I still think it was a good trade considering how poorly Danny played in the playoffs last year.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:07 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Danny Green had 8 assists in game 2 win today

Dennis?

Never had more than 4 assists and in the last 3 games (all losses) had a combined 7 assists.


Fun exercise. Say that Green was on the Lakers and we get booted like we did round 1. Same issues with AD and LBJ not 100%. Green isn’t a difference maker without AD. In reality without AD, Green doesn’t move the needle at all (and he benefits from Embiid/Ben/Tobias too).

Do we just let him go for nothing? Try to sign him as an asset to move in the future?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:14 pm    Post subject:

Yawn. Swap ds and dg and we wouldn’t have made playoffs. Imagine a dg led team while bron and ad were out.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:26 pm    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
SIXTH MAN OF THE YEAR

2015 — Lou Williams | $5,450,000
2016 — Jamal Crawford | $5,675,000
2017 — Eric Gordon | $12,385,364
2018 — Lou Williams | $7,000,000
2019 — Lou Williams | $8,000,000
2020 — Montrezl Harrell | $6,000,000
2021 — Jordan Clarkson | $11,500,000


Yeah I pointed this out awhile ago.

I think in the history of the award the only man who ever got paid more than what Schroder wants was Harden... and I think we can all agree that Schroder is no Harden. Harden was shooting about 20% better than Schroder when he was a sixth man.


This is kind of a chicken and an egg thing.

Most guys who do well in 6th man voting tend to stay as 6th men and there's a ceiling on their perceived value.

But there have certainly been guys who did well in 6th man voting, made the jump to starter, and commanded salaries of $20 million or more. Fred Van Vleet and Paul Millsap are two names that come to mind. I suspect there are others, but it's a little hard to remember who finished in the top 5 or whatever in 6th man voting over the years.

I don't think Schroder is worth what he's asking, but I doubt the average salary of 6th man runner ups will have any bearing on what he makes. If teams perceive him as a starter-quality point guard, the 6th man thing is irrelevant. His value will be judged against other starting point guards and market forces.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:32 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Danny Green had 8 assists in game 2 win today

Dennis?

Never had more than 4 assists and in the last 3 games (all losses) had a combined 7 assists.


Green understand the nuance of those angles on both ends. He knew how to position himself and knew the off ball movement, he bring intangibles that makes him a winning type of player . He was under appreciated here because his shooting was off throughout the year including the playoff but he’s one of those player that can defend and provide space for more room for Lebron to operate and AD to finish.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:54 pm    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Danny Green had 8 assists in game 2 win today

Dennis?

Never had more than 4 assists and in the last 3 games (all losses) had a combined 7 assists.


Green understand the nuance of those angles on both ends. He knew how to position himself and knew the off ball movement, he bring intangibles that makes him a winning type of player . He was under appreciated here because his shooting was off throughout the year including the playoff but he’s one of those player that can defend and provide space for more room for Lebron to operate and AD to finish.


You're wasting your time posting something like this. The DS lovers don't understand the game in this way.

They admire the streak in Schroders haircut.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:00 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
How does one value a sixth man ((runner up)) at $16-18 million? That’s more than twice market value!


Because this year he was played as a starting guard. That's probably average to what a starting NBA point guard gets. But then you have to factor in our precarious asset deprived, capped out situation and it's inbuilt, the excess.


so we are paying him because he is a starting guard?

Cant Shoot the 3
Cant setup his teammates

with this logic we should have paid ronny price as well cause he was starting PG for laekers
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:03 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Danny Green had four points in 30 minutes in game 1. I still think it was a good trade considering how poorly Danny played in the playoffs last year.


I still think that if Green makes that three to win the Lakers the chip, he would still be on the team.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:06 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
How does one value a sixth man ((runner up)) at $16-18 million? That’s more than twice market value!


Because this year he was played as a starting guard. That's probably average to what a starting NBA point guard gets. But then you have to factor in our precarious asset deprived, capped out situation and it's inbuilt, the excess.


Smush Parker was our starting point guard. It doesn’t mean he was worth $16-18 million.

Dennis Schroder is a backup because he is wildly inconsistent. 20 points one night, struggle to scratch the next. When he isn’t scoring, what does he do to help the team? He doesn’t create for others. He doesn’t defend. He doesn’t even shoot 3’s. He’s a bad fit with Vogel. He’s a bad fit with Lebron. So why do we need him?


DS doesn't really fit well here, but he's probably one of the 30 best point guards in the NBA. So I would say he is just barely a NBA starter level point guard.

In a vacuum, I'd say his value is probably about $13 to $15 million a year. Obviously, salaries aren't determined in a vacuum.

It will be interesting to see how GM's around the league perceive his value. There are several available point guard free agents I'd rather have than him. But it only takes one GM to fall in love with him, and become afraid of losing him, for him to get paid.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:16 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
How does one value a sixth man ((runner up)) at $16-18 million? That’s more than twice market value!


Because this year he was played as a starting guard. That's probably average to what a starting NBA point guard gets. But then you have to factor in our precarious asset deprived, capped out situation and it's inbuilt, the excess.


And he was already making $15.5M before his big season in OKC.


Yeah, he had a good year as the starting point guard for the Hawks and they signed him to a 4-year, $60 million dollar deal or something. The next year he averaged 19 points per game as their starting point guard.

He got traded to Oklahoma city, and because Westbrook was there he became the backup.

I'm not sure why some people here have it stuck in their mind that he is fated to forever be a backup, or that he performs better as a backup. That's more a consequence of the makeup of a particular team then anything about him.

Obviously, like most players, he would prefer to start than be a sixth man.
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