MARC GASOL Thread - Collecting DNP’s
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Lonzo-Lite
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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 9:54 pm    Post subject:

Jokic: 2 of his 5 worst shooting games were against the Lakers

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Feb. 21 vs Hawks - 5/15 FG (33.3%)

Feb. 4 vs Lakers - 6/16 FG (37.5%)

Apr. 1 vs Clippers - 6/16 FG (37.5%)

Apr. 11 vs Celtics - 6/15 FG (40%)

Tonight vs Lakers - 12/28 FG (42.8%)


Yes, Marc Gasol.
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 9:57 pm    Post subject:

He pretty much outplayed Jokic for the 17 minutes he was out there. Awesome Marc.
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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 10:03 pm    Post subject:

lakez34 wrote:
Kblo247! wrote:
lakez34 wrote:
He may have played himself into shape this season, and he definitely stepped up after Drummond was signed but he really is exactly what we need to space the floor and just make smart basketball plays. Hopefully Vogel finally sees the light and plays him more and at the right times.


He played himself into shape every season of his career even overseas, expecting that to not happen was silly.


Yeah that's a fair point and likely because I didn't watch his teams closely in prior years. Regardless he's playing solid basketball and Vogel needs to find him minutes when matchups make sense. He should take Drummonds minutes when he's struggling (which he was in the game vs Nuggets tonight) instead of being relegated to spot minutes.


Memphis let him and Zach play their way into shape in camp because of the grit and grind style. He also did it in Toronto. During last season he was one of the best defensive centers in the game and made their team flow, but he got hurt by the bubble stop because it was a reset and had no time to play his way back.

The fact is the starting 5 with Marc had one of the best offensive ratings in basketball with AD, Bron, KCP, and Dennis. He has had better defensive numbers than Javale or Dwight this year and last year. He just doesn’t shoot a lot. That’s part on Marc and part on frank too. He literally averaged 2.6 shot attempts a night in December and January.

Look at the raptors right now. They got guys whose box score talks louder than Marc. Drummond and Trez boxscore talks louder than him too, but Marcs win column and actual impact will be greater than theirs. Marc is essentially Rondo or Horry right now. The regular season leaves him nothing to prove. The stat sheet leaves him nothing to prove. He’s been an all star, won medals, is a champion, been dpoy, been all nba, got the max before ... he’s just about winning and playing the right way.

Kuzma was the messenger because he has a lot of that Rick Fox, I don’t give a what people say about me, I’m go speak my mind
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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 10:23 pm    Post subject:

His quick rebound outlet passes are a thing of beauty
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:41 am    Post subject:

It is sad when your third best playmaker is a center.
Gasol has that capability from center.
Problem is Vogel is a good defensive coach but a poor offensive coach.
His system of relying on Lebron is broken.
If Rondo was here it would have helped.
Just have to do best as can with personnel.
But next draft draft a PG for backup.
Even third string a playmaker will fill an essential hole as Lebron slows down.
It doesn't help that Pelinka is a first time GM.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:46 am    Post subject:

Amazing game by Gasol tonight...I've been his worst critic but man did he shut me up...No way we win this game without him. There still maybe be match ups that are not favorable to him but at least give him a shot now. What I'm not understanding is why Vogel doesn't play him with Trezz on the second unit. Gasol outside and Trez inside...instead Vogel plays Kieff who has been pathetic in the last month. Sometimes Vogel can be his own worst enemy. Kief should now be out of the rotation. There are too many guys playing. Need to have a solid and steady rotation going into the play-offs.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:51 am    Post subject:

laker50 wrote:
It is sad when your third best playmaker is a center.
Gasol has that capability from center.
Problem is Vogel is a good defensive coach but a poor offensive coach.
His system of relying on Lebron is broken.
If Rondo was here it would have helped.
Just have to do best as can with personnel.
But next draft draft a PG for backup.
Even third string a playmaker will fill an essential hole as Lebron slows down.
It doesn't help that Pelinka is a first time GM.


Vogel is great at managing personalities and installing a defense

But he has some glaring flaws as you point out. He struggles with obvious rotation stuff and is not an offensive coach at all, we have a ton of great scorers yet struggle to score for long stretches. Rob should have addressed that by bringing in a top flight offensive assistant.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:55 am    Post subject:

BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
laker50 wrote:
It is sad when your third best playmaker is a center.
Gasol has that capability from center.
Problem is Vogel is a good defensive coach but a poor offensive coach.
His system of relying on Lebron is broken.
If Rondo was here it would have helped.
Just have to do best as can with personnel.
But next draft draft a PG for backup.
Even third string a playmaker will fill an essential hole as Lebron slows down.
It doesn't help that Pelinka is a first time GM.


Vogel is great at managing personalities and installing a defense

But he has some glaring flaws as you point out. He struggles with obvious rotation stuff and is not an offensive coach at all, we have a ton of great scorers yet struggle to score for long stretches. Rob should have addressed that by bringing in a top flight offensive assistant.


That was supposed to have been Jason Kidd.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:09 am    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
Amazing game by Gasol tonight...I've been his worst critic but man did he shut me up...No way we win this game without him. There still maybe be match ups that are not favorable to him but at least give him a shot now. What I'm not understanding is why Vogel doesn't play him with Trezz on the second unit. Gasol outside and Trez inside...instead Vogel plays Kieff who has been pathetic in the last month. Sometimes Vogel can be his own worst enemy. Kief should now be out of the rotation. There are too many guys playing. Need to have a solid and steady rotation going into the play-offs.


Yet here we are
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 7:57 am    Post subject:

leking006 wrote:
Treble Clef wrote:
leking006 wrote:
Treble Clef wrote:
Gasol played well tonight and was a big reason they won.

Also, Gasol has been bad most of the season and giving him playing time is not their key to winning games.


https://www.nba.com/stats/player/201188/advanced/

How can you say his bad with this advance stats? Maybe you are not watching most of the games.

+5 Net Rating
39.3% on 3s
1.2 bpg ( leading the team)

And he is the 2nd best playmaker on the team. The offense is more fluid with him on the court. Give me some facts that he is bad all season long?

I don't know why people here saying he's bad all season long when Lakers has a winning record whenever he played.


He’s a role player. He isn’t a good starting player anymore. Whether he plays or not doesn’t make a significant difference on wins and losses. I feel like people are forgetting that the benching was very recent and he had been playing in most of their losses this season.


Says who? you? give me facts Give me his record when he's playing. Look if he has more loss than wins


The narrative that Gasol was playing "mostly in losses" is bizarre and patently false. This is simple stuff to look up really:
Dec 22 - Feb 28 : 24-11 (69%) - 9 of these games are without AD
Mar 28 - Apr 6 : 4-2 (67%) - all without AD

Overall through these games he was a net-positive. (I looked this up a few days back).

Meanwhile team-record since Gasol went to the bench: 5-9 (36%)
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:18 am    Post subject:

His level of play has gone up since recovering from COVID.
He's now up to 40%+ from 3.
We got him for a reason. He has the size and smarts to defend and bang with opposing big men. But can spread the floor on offense for AD and Bron. He's an ideal fit when our team is healthy.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:09 am    Post subject:

remember the starting lineup at the beginning of the season?
Marc+DS+LBJ+AD+KCP they had the best net rating, and it was not a fluke.

the thing with AD2 is that he doesn't really get up to challenge shots like Dwight, and he also stays in the lane and makes AD easier to be doubled, and on top of that, he is having issues catching the ball.
i wouldn't use 1-2 games to define AD2 as he was great against the nets, but Marc is very much needed with no DS and LBJ not 100%
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:33 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
About two months ago, there were people hoping that Gasol would just go ahead and retire. After all of these years, it still amazes me to see the shifting tides on LG.


I’m as guilty as anyone about Marc those couple months ago:

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?p=8673457&highlight=#8673457

But I do love eating crow!!! I’ll eat crow anytime if it means I’m wrong about a Laker!

The simple truth is: Marc Gasol motivated after Drummond signing >>>> Marc Gasol 2 months ago
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:34 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
About two months ago, there were people hoping that Gasol would just go ahead and retire. After all of these years, it still amazes me to see the shifting tides on LG.


I’m as guilty as anyone about Marc those couple months ago:

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?p=8673457&highlight=#8673457

But I do love eating crow!!! I’ll eat crow anytime if it means I’m wrong about a Laker!

The simple truth is: Marc Gasol motivated after Drummond signing >>>> Marc Gasol 2 months ago


I'm with you....big Gasol critic but he's stepping up. He was not playing this way earlier. Was is the AD2 signing? IDK...but he's playing well and needs to play more if he plays like this...just like Kief...he's been horrible and needs to sit. Give Gasol those minutes.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:47 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
About two months ago, there were people hoping that Gasol would just go ahead and retire. After all of these years, it still amazes me to see the shifting tides on LG.


I’m as guilty as anyone about Marc those couple months ago:

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?p=8673457&highlight=#8673457

But I do love eating crow!!! I’ll eat crow anytime if it means I’m wrong about a Laker!

The simple truth is: Marc Gasol motivated after Drummond signing >>>> Marc Gasol 2 months ago


Yep, I'll admit when I am dead wrong. This is such a time.

He'll get big minutes again on Thursday against Boogie, ID' have to imagine. Itd' be good to see Trez at PF at the same time, but...Vogel
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:55 pm    Post subject:

Gasol > Drum, Trez
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:01 pm    Post subject:

Drummond had a team worst -11, while Gasol had a team high +17 last night.

I don’t know what it is about Laker coaches not playing the Gasol bros, but damn, you would expect coaches trying to appease the title winning Spaniards.

I suspect (and hope) that it’s part strategy, in that we wanted to break out Marc in the postseason as he recovered from COVID and any lingering issues till then. Also, I can see is using that same strategy in Wes while McLemore finds his rhythm with the team as a late add.

Either way, I was shocked at how both those players nose dived earlier in the season, but kept on holding on to the thought that they would turn up in the playoffs a la Rondo.

BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
laker50 wrote:
It is sad when your third best playmaker is a center.
Gasol has that capability from center.
Problem is Vogel is a good defensive coach but a poor offensive coach.
His system of relying on Lebron is broken.
If Rondo was here it would have helped.
Just have to do best as can with personnel.
But next draft draft a PG for backup.
Even third string a playmaker will fill an essential hole as Lebron slows down.
It doesn't help that Pelinka is a first time GM.


Vogel is great at managing personalities and installing a defense

But he has some glaring flaws as you point out. He struggles with obvious rotation stuff and is not an offensive coach at all, we have a ton of great scorers yet struggle to score for long stretches. Rob should have addressed that by bringing in a top flight offensive assistant.


Totally agree! FO needs to be more robust and had it been, I’m sure we would have had our 3rd max guy right now and a different coaching configuration...possibly Lue/Thibs.

Quote:
The Athletic: The reports of Lue wanting to add his former colleague in Boston, Tom Thibodeau, to his coaching staff are also true. LeBron, through intermediaries, has let it be known that Thibodeau would be a huge asset to have on the bench. LeBron’s close associates were gauging Thibodeau’s interest in becoming a top assistant two weeks ago. It would be similar to the role Mike Brown and Ron Adams serve under Steve Kerr in Golden State.


I recall Cranjis was all over a potential Lue hiring in terms of how significant it would be for our offensive schemes. Adding Vogel or Thibs as our DC at that point would have been ideal.

Anyways, I still hope our bball ops can grow a little more so that it’s not just Rob & the Rambii (w/ the occasional assist from klutch konsulting).
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:09 pm    Post subject:

So what happened to the incessant chirping regarding how awful Marc is? Buehler? Buehler?
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:31 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
So what happened to the incessant chirping regarding how awful Marc is? Buehler? Buehler?


People don't understand one or more of:
* matchups
* injuries
* normal ups and downs
* creds
* lineups/fit
* context
* scheme
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:39 pm    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
So what happened to the incessant chirping regarding how awful Marc is? Buehler? Buehler?


People don't understand one or more of:
* matchups
* injuries
* normal ups and downs
* creds
* lineups/fit
* context
* scheme


To be fair, he wasn’t playing well to begin the year. The way I look at it:

1) He was as effective on rim protection as Harrell is.
2) He started to surge right before he got COVID
3) He struggled getting back from COVID
4) The Drummond news lit a fire under him and he is now who we thought he was, the 2nd most high IQ basketball player on the team behind Lebron.

We are going to need Gasol, but I think even he would tell you he wasn’t good enough at the beginning of the year up until that solid stretch before getting COVID.

Even Jokic said last night people forget how good Gasol is defensively. It’s there now...
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:45 pm    Post subject:

Hope Playoff Gasol mimic playoff Rondo, IQ in a slowed down games
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:57 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
So what happened to the incessant chirping regarding how awful Marc is? Buehler? Buehler?


People don't understand one or more of:
* matchups
* injuries
* normal ups and downs
* creds
* lineups/fit
* context
* scheme


To be fair, he wasn’t playing well to begin the year. The way I look at it:

1) He was as effective on rim protection as Harrell is.
2) He started to surge right before he got COVID
3) He struggled getting back from COVID
4) The Drummond news lit a fire under him and he is now who we thought he was, the 2nd most high IQ basketball player on the team behind Lebron.

We are going to need Gasol, but I think even he would tell you he wasn’t good enough at the beginning of the year up until that solid stretch before getting COVID.

Even Jokic said last night people forget how good Gasol is defensively. It’s there now...


It depends on what your expectations were. I expected 20 minutes of "hold the fort" basketball and that's exactly what he provided i.e. he was a net plus through the first 30+ games. The rest of the minutes were supposed to be provided by the other 5's i.e. Trezz - you be the judge how that has gone.
I really don't understand where/why people had different expectations - he's a 36 yo who was headed for retirement, we were fortunate we convinced him to play another year or two, you can see for yourself how playmaking stretch 5's are so rare and valuable.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:00 pm    Post subject:

I thought he struggled in rim protection but that was my only beef.

He has been much better in that area for a while now.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:14 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
I thought he struggled in rim protection but that was my only beef.

He has been much better in that area for a while now.


That's correct in one way, but not entirely correct. By that I mean Vogel's defensive scheme was different with Gasol - the design was to NOT meet the attack at the rim (since Gasol is NOT McGee/Howard - he doesn't shot-block and does not erase defensive mistakes). What Gasol can do instead is to play superior positional/team defense so the attacker does not get to the basket as often as they would against average inferior defense.
Now, you may think this is all hooey, but then just take a look at the percentage of time the offense was successful in getting a basket - which is really what matters. (This is what defensive metrics are based on that ranked the Lakers #1). And those say that the Lakers starting lineup (with Gasol) was high up there in defense - it allowed fewer points overall than most (if not all) other lineups. And I'm talking about the first 30 games, not just the recent ones. And I agree with you, Gasol has been even better in the recent games - call it health, familiarity, motivation, or whatever.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:34 pm    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
I thought he struggled in rim protection but that was my only beef.

He has been much better in that area for a while now.


That's correct in one way, but not entirely correct. By that I mean Vogel's defensive scheme was different with Gasol - the design was to NOT meet the attack at the rim (since Gasol is NOT McGee/Howard - he doesn't shot-block and does not erase defensive mistakes). What Gasol can do instead is to play superior positional/team defense so the attacker does not get to the basket as often as they would against average inferior defense.
Now, you may think this is all hooey, but then just take a look at the percentage of time the offense was successful in getting a basket - which is really what matters. (This is what defensive metrics are based on that ranked the Lakers #1). And those say that the Lakers starting lineup (with Gasol) was high up there in defense - it allowed fewer points overall than most (if not all) other lineups. And I'm talking about the first 30 games, not just the recent ones. And I agree with you, Gasol has been even better in the recent games - call it health, familiarity, motivation, or whatever.


I realize what the numbers said, but just watching the games there is a noticeable difference in Marc’s defensive game since that stretch right before he got COVID.

Analytics is fine, but just combining it with the game tape...Marc is a lot better imo. It’s not easy to score on him like it was. Before he would have to rely on quick hands at the last minute to strip the player going up but now he’s able to challenge more than just a prayer that he strips the ball.

And of course from an offensive perspective, he got off to a bad start from 3, but ever since around that @Minnesota game, he’s been knocking them down pretty good.
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