DWade, after he sells his stake of the Jazz _________________ “You have to dance beautifully in the box that you are comfortable dancing in.” - Kobe Bryant
I've always loved having someone with the initials K.B. being our starting SG.
It's the case for me this year as well. _________________ 💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!!
Tough to say, I think it will be determined by who is the best defensively in Vogel eyes, and then who is most reliable in a halfcourt spot up for 3 role.
I mean Melo is a hell of a shooter from what I have seen. People may not like his isolation tactics (but he will not be getting too many of those here) but his jumper is a beauty and he can get going. Same with Monk, to a different degree. Monk has a lot of prime JR Smith (NY-CLE version) in him. He can get going from outside and just be lethal.
On paper, AD-Bron-Westbrook + Melo-Monk, make it crazy lethal on offense.
However then there is the aspect that based on last year eye test and some advanced stats, Monk and Melo leave a lot to be desired on defense. If they do not play defense at a high level, Vogel will not start them.
That is one of my concerns with the roster, we got a lot of scoring weapons, but also guys that tend to be a 1-way players. I wonder how much of that Vogel can alter. We saw with Kuz, he went from a liability on D, to one of the more solid defenders on the team, and in the end, I actually end up trusting his defense to be way more consistent than his offense. Crazy. Maybe we can get that out of Monk, as well, but since Monk is a more natural outside shooter, less of a pain to develop than Kuz.
A lot of things will play out in the season. I really have no clue about the others. I think Baze has some 2-way ability. The rest of the guys, I have not seen them as defensive players in the league. So onus is on this coaching staff to find the right mix and come into training camp with that defensive mindset.
Monk is intriguing if he can prove he can be focused. Inconsistent performances has been his main criticism. He defends at a high level, hits his 3s and proves to be a solid finisher on breaks… could earn the spot.
Both Ellington and THT have specific and important skills. Just see them both as bench or role players. THT has the “ potential” to be a solid starter. Not sure with this starting lineup though.
Going to a fun battle to see who earns the mpg at a lot of spots this year.
Ellington being the best shooter should start out to create spacing and make the defenses honest with guarding the Big 3.
Bazemore could be the closer.
Monk with the fire power off the bench.
THT doesn’t make any sense to start with LBJ and Russ. He’s a slasher, but he doesn’t space the floor and he also needs the ball in his hands. His defense is suspect too. LBJ and Russ need spot up shooters to create spacing more than they need another ball handler. _________________ Tacos
Last edited by Lonzo-Lite on Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:28 am Post subject:
Lonzo-Lite wrote:
Ellington being the best shooter should start out to make the defenses honest with guarding the Big 3.
Bazemore could be the closer.
Monk with the fire power off the bench.
THT doesn’t make any sense to start with LBJ and Russ. He doesn’t space the floor and he also needs the ball in his hands. LBJ and Russ need spot up shooters to create spacing more than they need another ball handler.
He has the best indicators for shooting potential, and limiting his 3-point shots to just catch and shoot, helps develop percentages.
He doesn't need the ball in his hands. He didn't have that in Iowa St. He didn't have that as a rookie. Could legit just play him like a 3/D player with transition ability. He's also about on par with Bazemore as an off-ball defender, maybe better. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
THT doesn’t make any sense to start with LBJ and Russ. He doesn’t space the floor and he also needs the ball in his hands. LBJ and Russ need spot up shooters to create spacing more than they need another ball handler.
He has the best indicators for shooting potential, and limiting his 3-point shots to just catch and shoot, helps develop percentages.
He doesn't need the ball in his hands. He didn't have that in Iowa St. He didn't have that as a rookie. Could legit just play him like a 3/D player with transition ability. He's also about on par with Bazemore as an off-ball defender, maybe better.
Potential is something else, LBJ and Russ need something now, they don’t need someone that could potentially be.
THT hasn’t shown he could be a good consistent jump shooter, or catch and shoot player, especially not a high volume shooter compared to Ellington or even Monk.
What he’s shown so far is that he’s good with the ball in his hands at slashing and semi-facilitating. The starters need spacing and THT doesn’t give that to them right now. _________________ Tacos
Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 4108 Location: Space City
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:43 am Post subject:
THT. Think his 3pt percentage will go up enough and there’s his ability to get to the rim, passing and defense that will make him deadly to play with the starters.
Him and Baze should start at the 2 and 3, respectively. Obviously that switches LBJ and AD to PF and C. It’s our most complete 5 man and the rest of guard heavy roster slots in better. _________________ Darvin
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:44 am Post subject:
Lonzo-Lite wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Lonzo-Lite wrote:
THT doesn’t make any sense to start with LBJ and Russ. He doesn’t space the floor and he also needs the ball in his hands. LBJ and Russ need spot up shooters to create spacing more than they need another ball handler.
He has the best indicators for shooting potential, and limiting his 3-point shots to just catch and shoot, helps develop percentages.
He doesn't need the ball in his hands. He didn't have that in Iowa St. He didn't have that as a rookie. Could legit just play him like a 3/D player with transition ability. He's also about on par with Bazemore as an off-ball defender, maybe better.
Potential is something else, LBJ and Russ need something now, they don’t need someone that could potentially be.
THT hasn’t shown he could be a good consistent catch and shoot in high volume.
What he’s shown so far is that he’s good with the ball in his hands at slashing and semi-facilitating. The starters need spacing and THT doesn’t give that to them right now.
I'm willing to bet that THT is probably a 36%+ catch and shoot 3pt shooter, and to me, that's more than enough and isn't what he could "potentially be."
What I really hate about everyone defaulting to "the Lakers need spacing" is, it doesn't take into account that LAL is building a transition team first. That's why THT got the money. That's why Westbrook got traded for. Transition/rim pressure first. Shooting second.
Personally, I don't want to rely on an outlier year for Bazemore when he was playing for a new contract and is still an average career 3-point shooter, and actually got a ton of catch-and-shoot 3s, unlike THT. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:45 am Post subject:
hydrohead wrote:
THT. Think his 3pt percentage will go up enough and there’s his ability to get to the rim, passing and defense that will make him deadly to play with the starters.
Him and Baze should start at the 2 and 3, respectively. Obviously that switches LBJ and AD to PF and C. It’s our most complete 5 man and the rest of guard heavy roster slots in better.
That's better. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
THT. Think his 3pt percentage will go up enough and there’s his ability to get to the rim, passing and defense that will make him deadly to play with the starters.
Keyword in that sentence is “THINK”.
THT is not proven yet.
If we had a young team with Lonzo, Kuzma, Ingram, then I would love love love THT to start next to them and continue developing and afford to make lots of mistakes.
But LBJ and Russ need proven players to produce now, and produce consistently next to them. THT is not yet that type of player especially not a consistent volume catch and shoot player the starters need.
Don’t see the coaching staff letting a 20 year old player who really hasn’t proven much to start over the other more experienced guys mentioned above. _________________ Tacos
Last edited by Lonzo-Lite on Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:05 am Post subject:
hydrohead wrote:
THT. Think his 3pt percentage will go up enough and there’s his ability to get to the rim, passing and defense that will make him deadly to play with the starters.
Him and Baze should start at the 2 and 3, respectively. Obviously that switches LBJ and AD to PF and C. It’s our most complete 5 man and the rest of guard heavy roster slots in better.
Teams would pack the paint and dare the offense to shoot the jumper. Maybe the other options wouldn’t be better overall but those are the choices Vogel will have. Given the choice of playing the best defensive team or a team that can score 120, I think we know what he will choose. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
My guess is Baze will start in October, he's the one who provides best defense while still decent at offense. THT is more likely to close games, though, as long as he can improve his defense.
Still, I think it will change a lot as the season progress. _________________ ....
THT doesn’t make any sense to start with LBJ and Russ. He doesn’t space the floor and he also needs the ball in his hands. LBJ and Russ need spot up shooters to create spacing more than they need another ball handler.
He has the best indicators for shooting potential, and limiting his 3-point shots to just catch and shoot, helps develop percentages.
He doesn't need the ball in his hands. He didn't have that in Iowa St. He didn't have that as a rookie. Could legit just play him like a 3/D player with transition ability. He's also about on par with Bazemore as an off-ball defender, maybe better.
Potential is something else, LBJ and Russ need something now, they don’t need someone that could potentially be.
THT hasn’t shown he could be a good consistent catch and shoot in high volume.
What he’s shown so far is that he’s good with the ball in his hands at slashing and semi-facilitating. The starters need spacing and THT doesn’t give that to them right now.
I'm willing to bet that THT is probably a 36%+ catch and shoot 3pt shooter, and to me, that's more than enough and isn't what he could "potentially be."
What I really hate about everyone defaulting to "the Lakers need spacing" is, it doesn't take into account that LAL is building a transition team first. That's why THT got the money. That's why Westbrook got traded for. Transition/rim pressure first. Shooting second.
Personally, I don't want to rely on an outlier year for Bazemore when he was playing for a new contract and is still an average career 3-point shooter, and actually got a ton of catch-and-shoot 3s, unlike THT.
Mike:
Really curious - How do you see this working (transition team first) if the opponent is determined to limit such opportunities and also elects to the pack the paint when Lakers are in half court offense? I think that is where the spacing concern arises from. _________________ "One thing I admire about Kuzma is his unwavering confidence. He truly has no idea that he’s not as good as he thinks." - Killer_Z
I tend to lean towards Ellington because of the difficulty of the shots he makes and his ability to move without the ball. I know he’s not a good defender but he makes the divulged shots the Nets big 3 would make. He’s not a guy you can leave the big 3 for. As a matter of fact he will drain those shots with defenders on him.
the only other guy on this list I can think of that can hit these difficult shots is Monk _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:02 am Post subject:
Car54 wrote:
I tend to lean towards Ellington because of the difficulty of the shots he makes and his ability to move without the ball. I know he’s not a good defender but he makes the divulged shots the Nets big 3 would make. He’s not a guy you can leave the big 3 for. As a matter of fact he will drain those shots with defenders on him.
the only other guy on this list I can think of that can hit these difficult shots is Monk
That's the problem. A team would want to force a defensive switch onto him. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
I tend to lean towards Ellington because of the difficulty of the shots he makes and his ability to move without the ball. I know he’s not a good defender but he makes the divulged shots the Nets big 3 would make. He’s not a guy you can leave the big 3 for. As a matter of fact he will drain those shots with defenders on him.
the only other guy on this list I can think of that can hit these difficult shots is Monk
Russ and Ellington as starting backcourt is a liability on defense, at least against other starting lineups. _________________ ....
THT doesn’t make any sense to start with LBJ and Russ. He doesn’t space the floor and he also needs the ball in his hands. LBJ and Russ need spot up shooters to create spacing more than they need another ball handler.
He has the best indicators for shooting potential, and limiting his 3-point shots to just catch and shoot, helps develop percentages.
He doesn't need the ball in his hands. He didn't have that in Iowa St. He didn't have that as a rookie. Could legit just play him like a 3/D player with transition ability. He's also about on par with Bazemore as an off-ball defender, maybe better.
Potential is something else, LBJ and Russ need something now, they don’t need someone that could potentially be.
THT hasn’t shown he could be a good consistent catch and shoot in high volume.
What he’s shown so far is that he’s good with the ball in his hands at slashing and semi-facilitating. The starters need spacing and THT doesn’t give that to them right now.
I'm willing to bet that THT is probably a 36%+ catch and shoot 3pt shooter, and to me, that's more than enough and isn't what he could "potentially be."
What I really hate about everyone defaulting to "the Lakers need spacing" is, it doesn't take into account that LAL is building a transition team first. That's why THT got the money. That's why Westbrook got traded for. Transition/rim pressure first. Shooting second.
Personally, I don't want to rely on an outlier year for Bazemore when he was playing for a new contract and is still an average career 3-point shooter, and actually got a ton of catch-and-shoot 3s, unlike THT.
THT was less than 30% on C&S last year and Bazemore was 43%. Whether you inject outliers, potential, or trajectory into it the smart money is still on Bazemore to do better. I agree that THT adds a wider skill set but that might be redundant with the other starters. He probably would have more of an impact initiating off the bench which minimizes the subpar shooting he has shown thus far. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)
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