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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:42 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Cunningham would look very interesting in a pro motion offense. He's less heliocentric than ball pounders like Harden and Luka and has demonstrated a willingness and talent for off-ball movement that his offensively challenged teammates struggle to leverage.


I like him more than Luka.

I'm surprised how advanced he is defensively. It's like having the best of Luka/Lonzo
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject:

Ron Harper Jr.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdSi916BspI
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:15 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Cunningham would look very interesting in a pro motion offense. He's less heliocentric than ball pounders like Harden and Luka and has demonstrated a willingness and talent for off-ball movement that his offensively challenged teammates struggle to leverage.


I like him more than Luka.

I'm surprised how advanced he is defensively. It's like having the best of Luka/Lonzo

I'm not there yet, but Cade looks eerily like the Platonic ideal of a DT superstar. It's like he was made in a lab or NBA 2K or something.

Watching Schmitz's video on CC made me think of LaMelo's iso scoring struggles in the ABL. Cade's first step is a bit more sudden and he's more flexible in the upper body so he can get low for leverage and then use his strength and stride length to effort his way to the rim (as do Luka, RJ Barrett, etc.) But Cunningham also has a clear plan every time he attacks with moves he's clearly been drilled on - those shoulder shimmy, hang dribble, jab step, step back iso combos (and he'll need to continue to develop more counters in the pros, of course) - whereas Melo would (bleep) around without a plan against switches like he was in his backyard against his brothers.

So while I'm worried about LaMelo's first step burst and upper body stiffness being long-term impediments to iso scoring (he doesn't have Cade's frame, but I think he'll get strong enough to eventually bully defenders to the rim), but I'm curious to see what player development on his footwork and replicable iso combos with intent could do to unlock some additional scoring upside against switches.

Anyway, give me more 6'8 initiators! All the 6'8 initiators!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:15 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Ron Harper Jr.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdSi916BspI

Damn, I'm old.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:26 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Anyway, give me more 6'8 initiators! All the 6'8 initiators!


I wish Cade exhibited more shake. I'm surprised that his handle is on the higher end of an advanced wing, rather than the ability to outright juke a guy on handle alone.

He welcomes the contact, plays 2-ways, and knows what to do off the ball, on top of his skill set. The reference to Luka was about what he does best on the offensive end. The reference to Lonzo was the big boy pants defense with rim protection and knowing what to do off ball, along with a high floor of defensive intensity and awareness.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:39 pm    Post subject:

Later in the draft.

https://twitter.com/CanyonDriver/status/1337585244828930049
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:58 pm    Post subject:

Luka Garza went 13/14 FG, 6/7 from deep for Iowa. 6’11 and 260 pound Center that can stretch the floor.

Seems to be ranked as an early 2nd rounder so far. I’ve been watching him too and really like his game. I think he would be the ideal long term center if we can get him. He will also be a 4 year college pro so he will seem to be the most NBA ready as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6fGIOmxQU_4
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:10 pm    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
Luka Garza went 13/14 FG, 6/7 from deep for Iowa. 6’11 and 260 pound Center that can stretch the floor.

Seems to be ranked as an early 2nd rounder so far. I’ve been watching him too and really like his game. I think he would be the ideal long term center if we can get him. He will also be a 4 year college pro so he will seem to be the most NBA ready as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6fGIOmxQU_4


Been watching him since last year. The big numbers don't change the draft position that much.

My biggest concern is him needing all that USG to be effective. 37 is a ton.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:47 pm    Post subject:

Also, Paige Bueckers got game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7khUQg-tZM
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:24 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Luka Garza went 13/14 FG, 6/7 from deep for Iowa. 6’11 and 260 pound Center that can stretch the floor.

Seems to be ranked as an early 2nd rounder so far. I’ve been watching him too and really like his game. I think he would be the ideal long term center if we can get him. He will also be a 4 year college pro so he will seem to be the most NBA ready as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6fGIOmxQU_4


Been watching him since last year. The big numbers don't change the draft position that much.

My biggest concern is him needing all that USG to be effective. 37 is a ton.


Do you think that kinda system is the only way for him to succeed? Or could he be used like Marc Gasol will be used this season?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:51 pm    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Luka Garza went 13/14 FG, 6/7 from deep for Iowa. 6’11 and 260 pound Center that can stretch the floor.

Seems to be ranked as an early 2nd rounder so far. I’ve been watching him too and really like his game. I think he would be the ideal long term center if we can get him. He will also be a 4 year college pro so he will seem to be the most NBA ready as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6fGIOmxQU_4


Been watching him since last year. The big numbers don't change the draft position that much.

My biggest concern is him needing all that USG to be effective. 37 is a ton.


Do you think that kinda system is the only way for him to succeed? Or could he be used like Marc Gasol will be used this season?


Unless he shows something different in work outs, I'm not as clear as to not only to optimize him, but also, if optimizing him optimizes the team overall.

He looks like a great back up 5, possible borderline starting 5, especially if that pick and pop 3 pointer drops in easily like that. SSS % but great start. I haven't watched enough to pay attention to drop coverage, switch coverage, defensive presence. If we see bigs playing more at the elbows and exhibiting guard skills (PJ Washington got to flash some), I'd be MUCH more optimistic about his NBA success. But from the jump, unless a 4/5 shows off those guard skills, I'm going to swing much more heavily to wings and guards that have the requisite size/athletic attributes but have the skills and a baseline IQ to back it up.

He's flat out overpowering dudes. Once that hits NBA level, that ability is almost null, so the question is, how is he going to compensate?

Hence the emphasis on the guard skills, even out of bigs.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:13 am    Post subject:

2019 looks like a better PG draft than 2020 so far with Suggs and Springer looking better in combo roles, though Jared Butler's creeping up towards the late lotto on my early 2020 list. It's why I would still have Ball and Hayes pretty high up if the two classes were merged.

Not seeing as many QB1s as I thought might be in this class before the season but there's a number of potential QB2/3 guys and we still haven't seen Jalen Green or Kuminga yet (or Dashien Nix as a dark horse).

Cade and Mobley are an easy top two with Cade looking to be in the Luka/Zion tier and Mobley looking like the best college big man prospect since KAT. Keon Johnson, Suggs, Jalen Johnson, and Moody are in the next tier for me.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:15 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
2019 looks like a better PG draft than 2020 so far with Suggs and Springer looking better in combo roles, though Jared Butler's creeping up towards the late lotto on my early 2020 list. It's why I would still have Ball and Hayes pretty high up if the two classes were merged.

Not seeing as many QB1s as I thought might be in this class before the season but there's a number of potential QB2/3 guys and we still haven't seen Jalen Green or Kuminga yet (or Dashien Nix as a dark horse).

Cade and Mobley are an easy top two with Cade looking to be in the Luka/Zion tier and Mobley looking like the best college big man prospect since KAT. Keon Johnson, Suggs, Jalen Johnson, and Moody are in the next tier for me.


I think of the 2019 draft as a higher end of mid tier PG types, but I definitely think Cade stands alone there. Haven't watched Springer yet, and to me, Suggs is the best type of tertiary wing ever. I'm not convinced of his ball handling just yet.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:41 pm    Post subject:

Quade Green

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY2E6krCeTE
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:46 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
2019 looks like a better PG draft than 2020 so far with Suggs and Springer looking better in combo roles, though Jared Butler's creeping up towards the late lotto on my early 2020 list. It's why I would still have Ball and Hayes pretty high up if the two classes were merged.

Not seeing as many QB1s as I thought might be in this class before the season but there's a number of potential QB2/3 guys and we still haven't seen Jalen Green or Kuminga yet (or Dashien Nix as a dark horse).

Cade and Mobley are an easy top two with Cade looking to be in the Luka/Zion tier and Mobley looking like the best college big man prospect since KAT. Keon Johnson, Suggs, Jalen Johnson, and Moody are in the next tier for me.


I think of the 2019 draft as a higher end of mid tier PG types, but I definitely think Cade stands alone there. Haven't watched Springer yet, and to me, Suggs is the best type of tertiary wing ever. I'm not convinced of his ball handling just yet.

Looking forward to your thoughts on Springer if any network besides SECN would actually air UT's games.

Cunningham is on a different tier than most prospects regardless of position. I guess I was more bullish on Ball and Hayes' ceilings than most.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:09 pm    Post subject:

Archetypes: De'Aaron Fox has been a better player than Lonzo to date, no question, but he's going to need a sizable developmental leap to justify his max contract and even then his ceiling may not be QB1 on a WCF caliber team. As a GM I would've been fired for drafting Lonzo over Fox, but I like Lonzo's fit a lot better with Luka while Sacramento is locked in with Fox as their primary initiator for 3-4 more seasons.

There's a positional/skill versatility floor I probably value too much in PG prospects - can this guy mesh with a true ball dominant star if he fails to become one himself? - but a guy like Fox can lock small market teams into 7th seed mediocrity for years.

Anyway, Morant already seems to be on a better trajectory than Fox. Now the Grizzlies ceiling becomes how good Ja's jumper can get.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:17 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Archetypes: De'Aaron Fox has been a better player than Lonzo to date, no question, but he's going to need a sizable developmental leap to justify his max contract and even then his ceiling may not be QB1 on a WCF caliber team. As a GM I would've been fired for drafting Lonzo over Fox, but I like Lonzo's fit a lot better with Luka while Sacramento is locked in with Fox as their primary initiator for 3-4 more seasons.

There's a positional/skill versatility floor I probably value too much in PG prospects - can this guy mesh with a true ball dominant star if he fails to become one himself? - but a guy like Fox can lock small market teams into 7th seed mediocrity for years.

Anyway, Morant already seems to be on a better trajectory than Fox. Now the Grizzlies ceiling becomes how good Ja's jumper can get.


My general feeling is All-Star equals max contract. I think Fox is awfully close, it's just that the PG position is so stacked in the NBA.

I try not to think about the 2017 draft too much because I had Tatum 3rd and of course Fultz has some health issue.

The differentiator for me, is Fox's 42% FTr. I'm pretty sure that's elite for a PG with a substantial increase from his rookie year. Ja isn't that far behind, but I still question his landings on dunk attempts. I'd give the edge to Fox because I trust him as a more consistent perimeter shooter, more likely to draw fouls, doesn't seem as likely to get hurt. But, we're now in this odd world of, unless athletic PGs shoot 30', their upsides are capped, and the only guys that break that, are the jumbo initiators.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:50 pm    Post subject:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=CFTZUnAIe3M&feature=emb_logo

Thoughts on Sandro? 6’11 240 guy with some point forward skills it looks like. Could he play Center?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:45 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=CFTZUnAIe3M&feature=emb_logo

Thoughts on Sandro? 6’11 240 guy with some point forward skills it looks like. Could he play Center?


I think I posted a similar link earlier.

He's the guy Isaiah Hartenstein was supposed to be. I wouldn't play him at 5 though, unless he gets stronger. Great flashes, not the most consistent yet.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:28 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Archetypes: De'Aaron Fox has been a better player than Lonzo to date, no question, but he's going to need a sizable developmental leap to justify his max contract and even then his ceiling may not be QB1 on a WCF caliber team. As a GM I would've been fired for drafting Lonzo over Fox, but I like Lonzo's fit a lot better with Luka while Sacramento is locked in with Fox as their primary initiator for 3-4 more seasons.

There's a positional/skill versatility floor I probably value too much in PG prospects - can this guy mesh with a true ball dominant star if he fails to become one himself? - but a guy like Fox can lock small market teams into 7th seed mediocrity for years.

Anyway, Morant already seems to be on a better trajectory than Fox. Now the Grizzlies ceiling becomes how good Ja's jumper can get.


My general feeling is All-Star equals max contract. I think Fox is awfully close, it's just that the PG position is so stacked in the NBA.

I try not to think about the 2017 draft too much because I had Tatum 3rd and of course Fultz has some health issue.

The differentiator for me, is Fox's 42% FTr. I'm pretty sure that's elite for a PG with a substantial increase from his rookie year. Ja isn't that far behind, but I still question his landings on dunk attempts. I'd give the edge to Fox because I trust him as a more consistent perimeter shooter, more likely to draw fouls, doesn't seem as likely to get hurt. But, we're now in this odd world of, unless athletic PGs shoot 30', their upsides are capped, and the only guys that break that, are the jumbo initiators.

The high FTr is in part because his 3PAr is so low. He's a really mediocre to poor shooter outside of the paint, he's a good drive & dish guy who isn't advanced at setting up defenses whereas Morant is more Wall-like as a distributor. I also don't buy the defense, though he's certainly better than Morant.

You need your primary initiator to be just good enough on AtB threes to make defenses think twice about going under, and I don't know that Fox or Morant get there as deep shooters.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:35 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Ron Harper Jr.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdSi916BspI

Damn, I'm old.

To prove how old I am, Harper's kid has a lot of BC era Jared Dudley to his game. Skeptical he keeps the 3P% up, but would be interested in him in the late 1st if he's around or over 40% from deep on the season given the volume.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:39 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Ron Harper Jr.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdSi916BspI

Damn, I'm old.

To prove how old I am, Harper's kid has a lot of BC era Jared Dudley to his game. Skeptical he keeps the 3P% up, but would be interested in him in the late 1st if he's around or over 40% from deep on the season given the volume.


I only remember Dudley as a post player in BC?

I'm super impressed at his spot up shooting tbh, and retweeted some helpful stats to help gauge effectiveness.

BPM off the chart rn, but the thing I like about his game is how incredibly low that TO rate is compared to his assist rate. It's absurd.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:17 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Ron Harper Jr.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdSi916BspI

Damn, I'm old.

To prove how old I am, Harper's kid has a lot of BC era Jared Dudley to his game. Skeptical he keeps the 3P% up, but would be interested in him in the late 1st if he's around or over 40% from deep on the season given the volume.


I only remember Dudley as a post player in BC?

I'm super impressed at his spot up shooting tbh, and retweeted some helpful stats to help gauge effectiveness.

BPM off the chart rn, but the thing I like about his game is how incredibly low that TO rate is compared to his assist rate. It's absurd.

Dudz was a career .365 3pt shooter albeit on low-ish volume (~ 3PA/40) and I remember he liked to attack closeouts and use a variety of spin moves to get free in the lane. He was pretty damn dynamic in college.

Harper does seem like a better passer by age than Dudley. I'm going to have to watch a few Rutgers games this year.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:19 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Ron Harper Jr.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdSi916BspI

Damn, I'm old.

To prove how old I am, Harper's kid has a lot of BC era Jared Dudley to his game. Skeptical he keeps the 3P% up, but would be interested in him in the late 1st if he's around or over 40% from deep on the season given the volume.


I only remember Dudley as a post player in BC?

I'm super impressed at his spot up shooting tbh, and retweeted some helpful stats to help gauge effectiveness.

BPM off the chart rn, but the thing I like about his game is how incredibly low that TO rate is compared to his assist rate. It's absurd.

Dudz was a career .365 3pt shooter albeit on low-ish volume (~ 3PA/40) and I remember he liked to attack closeouts and use a variety of spin moves to get free in the lane. He was pretty damn dynamic in college.

Harper does seem like a better passer by age than Dudley. I'm going to have to watch a few Rutgers games this year.


Eating zone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdSi916BspI
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:24 am    Post subject:

Kuminga being good would give the draft class a nice boost. Jalen Johnson's college career is likely done, Scottie Barnes' jumper is scary bad, BJ Boston can't get uncorked, Keon Johnson is awesome defense with only flashes on offense (same for Garuba), and I'm wary Jalen Green won't pass or defend.
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