Can the Lakers compete with BKN in the Finals?
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TheBlackMamba
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:43 pm    Post subject:

They have GOAT potential offensively as a team. The sheer gravity of their three stars, two who are easily among the most skilled scorer/playmaker types of all time, will be incredible. Then you throw in support players like Joe Harris and Landry Shamet...sheesh.

BUT...there are some cons that could make this move's hype greater than the actual results.

1) Chemistry - on and off court. Three ball-dominant stars, one who was used to being arguably the most ball-dominant player of all time. It's not going to be automatic, as far as all three clicking and getting on the same page, especially with injuries, COVID, and the Kyrie of it all. Honestly, I could see it taking them a full season to figure it out. And speaking of Kyrie, do we even know if he wants to play basketball anymore? When you're asking questions like that, nothing is a guarantee.

2) Defense - I know Harden is better than he's been characterized as (when he actually cares), but I just don't see many plus defenders up and down their roster. Kyrie, Harden, and Harris could be a turnstile on the perimeter. And no, Deandre Jordan is far from what he was as an anchor, and he wasn't that great a defender in his prime to begin with. Couple that with offensive-minded coaches, I'm not sure I see an easy path to them becoming a good defensive team.

3) Coaching - I think Nash has a great basketball mind, but with this being his first coaching gig altogether, he's going to be outclassed by the seasoned pros on the other contenders. That goes doubly in the playoffs. On top of it all, he's gonna have to manage one of the greatest collection of egos any NBA team has ever had, with rumors already that Kyrie didn't approve the hire. I don't envy his job...

Given that the last three things are probably the most important to winning a title, I'm inclined to even say they won't make it out of the East this year. If anything, they're far from the favorite they're going to be painted as.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:45 pm    Post subject:

League is (bleep) (bleep). In no way did we need another 3 superstar team. Lakers in 5
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:45 pm    Post subject:

You got the question backwards. Lakers in 3
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:53 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
I'm confident we can handle them. I actually like the fact that Harden is on a team now that will most likely block the Celtics from getting to the Finals for the next couple years. (bleep) Boston.


I thought I was the only one thinking like this. We must be from the same era.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:58 pm    Post subject:

Kyrie probably won't make it to the end healthy. We are also assuming KD is also healthy come the playoffs, which isn't a given. That Achilles can tighten up on him, just ask Wes. Harden is a wildcard, but who knows. Let's also not forget chemistry with this team. Remember James, Wade & Bosh took some time to gel as well. They gutted the team to get to three superstars. Lakers have 2, depth and a defense.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:58 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
mckinnie back to cavs for mcgee _ i dream


A big like McGee won't be a factor at all in a potential matchup. Their best shot of them beating us or any elite team is KD or Jeff Green at Center.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:03 pm    Post subject:

eureca wrote:
Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
We don't have anyone to guard big wings. Got lit up by Pandemic P and Gary Trent Jr. KD and Harden is gonna be a problem.


Hmmm we literally just saw Anthony Davis guard Harden pretty well. And we still have a guy name Lebron James.

People underestimate how versatile both of them are defensively. Nets are obviously a problem, but lets not forget they have to guard Lebron/AD as well. Not to mention Dennis/Trez.

That wasn't Harden out there, that was Rick Ross. I don't trust Trezz in the playoffs. I think he was a bad signing.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:16 pm    Post subject:

Jarrett Allen was scary. If people remember Lebron had a hard time bullying him in games against Brooklyn. Losing Jarrett means Brooklyn's interior defense just got a lot worse.

Lavert was a big scorer for Brooklyn without needing the ball. Really nice complementary piece for them.

Harden and Kyrie do not defend.

AD can take KD, so we'll just need our guard combo to pester Harden and Kyrie.

Spencer is out for the year.

I'm confident Brooklyn won't win this year. I think Brooklyn's next move might be to move Kyrie for complementary pieces but which team would want him? KD and Harden by themselves could lead Brooklyn to a championship but I don't see KD, Harden, Kyrie, with little interior defense and little defense in general beating either the Lakers OR the Clippers
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm    Post subject:

If Nets play D they will be tough to beat, and should be favored.

But they lost defensive assets-players, and lets see how 3 stars defend together , 2 of them not known for D, and KD is coming off an injury so I do not think he is going all out on D.
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drae
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:21 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
If Nets play D they will be tough to beat, and should be favored.

But they lost defensive assets-players, and lets see how 3 stars defend together , 2 of them not known for D, and KD is coming off an injury so I do not think he is going all out on D.


Not only did they just shred their interior D, and Allen bullies Lebron in the post so he's a beast, Lavert is averaging 18.5 points a game and just came off a 40 point game against Memphis. He is the sort of piece you put beside two stars because he doesn't demand the ball but can score a LOT.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:33 pm    Post subject: implosion, thy name is Nets

The last time I saw a move to build a team with this strange combination of offensive potential and combustible stew of volatile and passive-aggressive personalities, it was created as the '68- '69 Lakers.

Kyrie ~ Baylor, the mercurial yet breaking down club leader who lives on the drive to the rim.

Durant ~ West, the reluctant guy in the middle of two warring factions, always deferring to Baylor, yet now capable of doing everything better, and eventually forced to lead against type.

Harden ~ Chamberlain, the egomaniac scorer who divided the clubhouse to isolate Baylor. and deny the smaller man's favorite driving and shooting areas.

This could take some time to play well.

Eventually it did work out well for the Lakers, once they hired an old sage (Sharman) to coach. Bill won Chamberlain's respect from his description of what made Bill Russell achieve greater championship success with lesser tools than the giant himself. Still, it took Baylor's retirement years later for Wilt to truly mimic Russell's path: focus on defense and rebounding at the cost of giving up scoring. It took four season to jell.

I can't even imagine the Brooklyn experiment lasting four seasons. Someone there will crack, someone will go down with injury and someone will force an exit.

Good news for Laker fans.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:44 pm    Post subject:

FiveThirtyEight 2020-21 NBA Predictions

Chance of winning finals:

Lakers 22%
Nets 16%

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-nba-predictions/
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:48 pm    Post subject:

Lakers have the defenders to match up well against them and Harden isnt going to suddenly know how to play team ball after playing his entire career as a black hole.
BUT I really hate how the Rockets didnt try to weaken the Nets further. Like how the hell do you giftwrap a player like Harden and let them also keep Joe Harris? Even if they didnt want Joe Harris still insist on getting him and flip him for someone else.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject:

cannga11 wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
I'm confident we can handle them. I actually like the fact that Harden is on a team now that will most likely block the Celtics from getting to the Finals for the next couple years. (bleep) Boston.


I thought I was the only one thinking like this. We must be from the same era.


Based on ur sig, we are.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:54 pm    Post subject:

I wonder who of the people who said we should trade everything to get AD... are now saying that Brooklyn is too thin.

I don't have time to look at everyone's history... but if people thought we should give up most of our depth for AD... then they should agree that Brooklyn made the right move to trade for Harden.

I think it all depends on whether Kyrie is mentally healthy. If he's having a bipolar episode, then Brooklyn won't win with two players. If Kyrie is okay then I think Brooklyn is the favorite, although nothing can go wrong for them healthwise.

Personally I think they gave up too much, but maybe they know Kyrie can't be relied upon this season.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:59 pm    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
I wonder who of the people who said we should trade everything to get AD... are now saying that Brooklyn is too thin.

I don't have time to look at everyone's history... but if people thought we should give up most of our depth for AD... then they should agree that Brooklyn made the right move to trade for Harden.

I think it all depends on whether Kyrie is mentally healthy. If he's having a bipolar episode, then Brooklyn won't win with two players. If Kyrie is okay then I think Brooklyn is the favorite, although nothing can go wrong for them healthwise.

Personally I think they gave up too much, but maybe they know Kyrie can't be relied upon this season.


Monumentally different scenarios.. Not really even comparable.

Considering the Nets absolutely robbed Houston it was a no brainer though for sure to give it a test because the potential is there just a ton of barriers as well.
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drae
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:00 pm    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
I wonder who of the people who said we should trade everything to get AD... are now saying that Brooklyn is too thin.

I don't have time to look at everyone's history... but if people thought we should give up most of our depth for AD... then they should agree that Brooklyn made the right move to trade for Harden.

I think it all depends on whether Kyrie is mentally healthy. If he's having a bipolar episode, then Brooklyn won't win with two players. If Kyrie is okay then I think Brooklyn is the favorite, although nothing can go wrong for them healthwise.

Personally I think they gave up too much, but maybe they know Kyrie can't be relied upon this season.


If you look at my history I said I wouldn't trade more than 2 youngsters for AD, but the astounding chemistry between AD and Lebron and the seemless fit between those 2, combined with the re-emergence of Rondo and the emergence of Caruso and Dwight having a complete 180 degree attitude shift made me look silly.

I'll take looking silly though if it means winning a championship.

I think this fit won't work for Brooklyn and they'll need to flip Kyrie. I guess there could be a whole set of circumstances go their way that might lead them to a championship also, but I feel the Nets at the moment are a powder keg

EDIT: Brooklyn not Boston
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:07 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
I wonder who of the people who said we should trade everything to get AD... are now saying that Brooklyn is too thin.

I don't have time to look at everyone's history... but if people thought we should give up most of our depth for AD... then they should agree that Brooklyn made the right move to trade for Harden.

I think it all depends on whether Kyrie is mentally healthy. If he's having a bipolar episode, then Brooklyn won't win with two players. If Kyrie is okay then I think Brooklyn is the favorite, although nothing can go wrong for them healthwise.

Personally I think they gave up too much, but maybe they know Kyrie can't be relied upon this season.


If you look at my history I said I wouldn't trade more than 2 youngsters for AD, but the astounding chemistry between AD and Lebron and the seemless fit between those 2, combined with the re-emergence of Rondo and the emergence of Caruso and Dwight having a complete 180 degree attitude shift made me look silly.

I'll take looking silly though if it means winning a championship.

I think this fit won't work for Brooklyn and they'll need to flip Kyrie. I guess there could be a whole set of circumstances go their way that might lead them to a championship also, but I feel the Nets at the moment are a powder keg

EDIT: Brooklyn not Boston


We lucked out last season. I still give 90% of the team's success to LBJ... AD is like a super version of Pau.

It's impossible to argue that we gave up too much because we won a championship. But had we not won, I think you'd see more self reflection by everyone.

I'd have done that trade for LBJ or Shaq in his prime... maybe a handful of others... but not for AD.

Maybe when LBJ goes downhill, AD will surprise me and become a dominant alpha player. I think more likely we become a better version of the old Pelicans... unless Rob can rob some teams along the way.

As LBJ goes... so goes the team... I just hope he has few more good years left so Rob has time to retool.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:18 pm    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
drae wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
I wonder who of the people who said we should trade everything to get AD... are now saying that Brooklyn is too thin.

I don't have time to look at everyone's history... but if people thought we should give up most of our depth for AD... then they should agree that Brooklyn made the right move to trade for Harden.

I think it all depends on whether Kyrie is mentally healthy. If he's having a bipolar episode, then Brooklyn won't win with two players. If Kyrie is okay then I think Brooklyn is the favorite, although nothing can go wrong for them healthwise.

Personally I think they gave up too much, but maybe they know Kyrie can't be relied upon this season.


If you look at my history I said I wouldn't trade more than 2 youngsters for AD, but the astounding chemistry between AD and Lebron and the seemless fit between those 2, combined with the re-emergence of Rondo and the emergence of Caruso and Dwight having a complete 180 degree attitude shift made me look silly.

I'll take looking silly though if it means winning a championship.

I think this fit won't work for Brooklyn and they'll need to flip Kyrie. I guess there could be a whole set of circumstances go their way that might lead them to a championship also, but I feel the Nets at the moment are a powder keg

EDIT: Brooklyn not Boston


We lucked out last season. I still give 90% of the team's success to LBJ... AD is like a super version of Pau.

It's impossible to argue that we gave up too much because we won a championship. But had we not won, I think you'd see more self reflection by everyone.

I'd have done that trade for LBJ or Shaq in his prime... maybe a handful of others... but not for AD.

Maybe when LBJ goes downhill, AD will surprise me and become a dominant alpha player. I think more likely we become a better version of the old Pelicans... unless Rob can rob some teams along the way.

As LBJ goes... so goes the team... I just hope he has few more good years left so Rob has time to retool.

You are saying BI+ball +hart +3 first round picks can get us prime lebron or prime shaq?
We didn’t give up too much for AD.
Lakers picks are mostly worthless since AD is signed long term, chances of them being lottery are slim to none
BI developed into an all star, sure. Who says he could do the same with the lakers?
Ball is mediocre at best
Hart is journeyman level at best

Is BI ever going to be as good as AD? I highly doubt that

No we didn’t luck out. We were the best team because of lebron just like bucks with giannis, clippers with kawhi
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:36 pm    Post subject:

Lakers would sweep.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:47 pm    Post subject:

They need to sort out their drama, first. Both Harden and Irving skipped games on their teams this season. When have you ever seen NBA players missing games to party, and during a pandemic?

Imagine a teammate of Kobe doing this. He would murder him.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:53 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
drae wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
I wonder who of the people who said we should trade everything to get AD... are now saying that Brooklyn is too thin.

I don't have time to look at everyone's history... but if people thought we should give up most of our depth for AD... then they should agree that Brooklyn made the right move to trade for Harden.

I think it all depends on whether Kyrie is mentally healthy. If he's having a bipolar episode, then Brooklyn won't win with two players. If Kyrie is okay then I think Brooklyn is the favorite, although nothing can go wrong for them healthwise.

Personally I think they gave up too much, but maybe they know Kyrie can't be relied upon this season.


If you look at my history I said I wouldn't trade more than 2 youngsters for AD, but the astounding chemistry between AD and Lebron and the seemless fit between those 2, combined with the re-emergence of Rondo and the emergence of Caruso and Dwight having a complete 180 degree attitude shift made me look silly.

I'll take looking silly though if it means winning a championship.

I think this fit won't work for Brooklyn and they'll need to flip Kyrie. I guess there could be a whole set of circumstances go their way that might lead them to a championship also, but I feel the Nets at the moment are a powder keg

EDIT: Brooklyn not Boston


We lucked out last season. I still give 90% of the team's success to LBJ... AD is like a super version of Pau.

It's impossible to argue that we gave up too much because we won a championship. But had we not won, I think you'd see more self reflection by everyone.

I'd have done that trade for LBJ or Shaq in his prime... maybe a handful of others... but not for AD.

Maybe when LBJ goes downhill, AD will surprise me and become a dominant alpha player. I think more likely we become a better version of the old Pelicans... unless Rob can rob some teams along the way.

As LBJ goes... so goes the team... I just hope he has few more good years left so Rob has time to retool.

You are saying BI+ball +hart +3 first round picks can get us prime lebron or prime shaq?
We didn’t give up too much for AD.
Lakers picks are mostly worthless since AD is signed long term, chances of them being lottery are slim to none
BI developed into an all star, sure. Who says he could do the same with the lakers?
Ball is mediocre at best
Hart is journeyman level at best

Is BI ever going to be as good as AD? I highly doubt that

No we didn’t luck out. We were the best team because of lebron just like bucks with giannis, clippers with kawhi


AD is great but we overpaid... remember we've lost Randle, DLo, Clarkson, LNJ, BI, Zo, Josh, Thomas Bryant, Svi, #4, 3 future #1... Mo, Bonga, Zubac... It's the cumulative loss that bothers me because AD hasn't proven he can win without LBJ.

BI so far has the same problem that AD has... he puts up good numbers... but hasn't shown the ability to lead his team to wins as the alpha. IF he starts doing that... then the trade really looks like it was too much.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:57 pm    Post subject:

Nets do have a GS ish starting five:

Flat earth
Pregame meals
Joe Harris
Snake (not mamba kind, two tongue one)
DeAndre

Our 1-11 is better overall and our D should be better too
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:07 pm    Post subject:

ADs best teammate in the playoffs has been Jrue Holiday.

Please tell me how many Lebron teams won a ring with Jrue level 2nd best player, let alone made the NBA Finals.

Even though Lebron is a better player than AD, and a better leader or #1 option without question because of his elite all time great caliber IQ-court vision-passing skills, I think you would not see any one do better than what AD with considering the talent he played with.

He had Cousins for half a season, and a high IQ Rondo, plus Holiday, and no Cousins in the playoffs, and they went to NBA SFs. Lebron missed the playoffs the next year, without AD.

Giannis, even, has played with better talent, with guys like Brogdon, and now Holiday, but he has also has had an all-star level wing like Middleton.

Then there is simply this. ADs biggest value is not his scoring ability alone (Which I agree will likely not be a distant #1 option on a ring level team, best was like we saw last season where he is 1A and 1B co #1s). It is his ability to defend every position on the floor at an elite level. At least Giannis can not defend 5s at an elite level. AD was on 1s through 5s in the playoffs. It was ridiculous. He defended Jokic. Murray. Butler. Harden. Dame. Literally the best player at each position 1-5 in the playoffs he faced, AD defended in some games. I have never seen a defender do that in this league. I have seen guys do it from 1-3. 1-4. But not 1-5 like AD has. He is simply dominant on D when he is fully engaged.
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:16 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
ADs best teammate in the playoffs has been Jrue Holiday.

Please tell me how many Lebron teams won a ring with Jrue level 2nd best player, let alone made the NBA Finals.

Even though Lebron is a better player than AD, and a better leader or #1 option without question because of his elite all time great caliber IQ-court vision-passing skills, I think you would not see any one do better than what AD with considering the talent he played with.

He had Cousins for half a season, and a high IQ Rondo, plus Holiday, and no Cousins in the playoffs, and they went to NBA SFs. Lebron missed the playoffs the next year, without AD.

Giannis, even, has played with better talent, with guys like Brogdon, and now Holiday, but he has also has had an all-star level wing like Middleton.

Then there is simply this. ADs biggest value is not his scoring ability alone (Which I agree will likely not be a distant #1 option on a ring level team, best was like we saw last season where he is 1A and 1B co #1s). It is his ability to defend every position on the floor at an elite level. At least Giannis can not defend 5s at an elite level. AD was on 1s through 5s in the playoffs. It was ridiculous. He defended Jokic. Murray. Butler. Harden. Dame. Literally the best player at each position 1-5 in the playoffs he faced, AD defended in some games. I have never seen a defender do that in this league. I have seen guys do it from 1-3. 1-4. But not 1-5 like AD has. He is simply dominant on D when he is fully engaged.


Is AD physically gifted enough to be that alpha player? Yes

I just haven't seen him do it.

LBJ may not have won a chip... but he dragged terrible teams to the finals every year.

If LBJ went down, I think we'd be a .500 team.

If AD went down, I think we'd still make the playoffs... even in the brutal west.

I hope AD proves me wrong... but he's an incredibly gifted player who doesn't will teams to victory. At least so far.
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