Can the Lakers compete with BKN in the Finals?
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vcdplaya3002
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:23 pm    Post subject:

KingKobe20 wrote:
MJST wrote:

I can rant about D'Antoni about a lot of things. But he wasn't responsible for Dwight deciding he didn't want to be a pick and roll center anymore despite having Nash as his point guard and D'Antoni as his coach. Dwight was. When Nash as a teammate has had it with you.. it speaks volumes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2TBz2phCgY

Had Dwight accepted that role and let Pau handle the post ups and pick and pops it would have flowed a lot better.


That 2013 team had soo much potential. Too many injuries and Dwight thinking he was more like Hakeem than Kareem.
A lot of us complain whenever KCP or AC goes off for 25-30 and we lose being a wasted effort imagine what a waste it was to see a 35 year old Kobe tomahawk dunking , dropping 50 with ease still

This Brooklyn squad is foreal obviously and you got an Harden playing the Nash role, Deandre playing Amare, Blake playing Boris Diaw, KD as Shawn Marion , and Kyrie as Kobe Bryant lol

Will see if there defense will be better than those Suns of 2006 who just couldn’t get over the hump


The Nets defense will be bad in the playoffs. It doesn’t take a crystal ball to figure that out. It might not matter because talent wise nobody can really match up and exploit them enough in the east to make a difference. Maybe Philly or Milwaukee but that’s a big if.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:24 pm    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
kwase wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
kwase wrote:
Halflife wrote:
If we had prime Kobe Shaq teams would anybody think we could be beat? I heard someone say shaq wouldn’t be dominant in this era. IMO that team would eviscerate this league. Imho of course



Wait, who's saying Shaq wouldn't dominate in today's game?!?! Look folks, this is not a "get off my lawn" statement, but any player that dominated in the 80's and 90's would dominate even more today. However, and listen carefully millennials...there are players today that put up big numbers that would not be able to deal the physical and mental toughness of the league 30 years ago. The league is soft now. Please go back and look at those Bulls-Pistons series from the late 80's. Watch the entire games and ask yourself if these dudes today could take that type of punishment. Back then when you came into the league you were going to be tested to see if you would fight back, and if you didn't you were going to get bullied the rest of your career. There are many superstars today that haven't even broken a nail in a game. We need to stop that "Oh the players today are bigger, stronger and more skilled". No, they're not. And that's not just for the NBA...all pro sports have turned into cupcake leagues that don't stress fundamentals.


I was just watching Chris Broussard say that the NBA should shorten the season because 82 games is too hard on the players bodies. Really?!?! Back in the day guys used to play 4 games in 5 nights, travel on a bus, sleep in dinky motels with tiny beds, wear converse All-Stars with no cushioning whatsoever, drink beer after the game and Wilt even smoked cigarettes....but you're gonna tell me with personal chefs, chartered jets, personal trainers, 5-star hotels, state of the art equipment and all the supplements they have now that it's somehow more difficult??? Hogwash, these dudes are soft. I can count on one hand how many players of today could have played back then and been just as successful....with fingers to spare.


*Dear diary



I don't do passive-aggressiveness. Is there something I wrote that you don't agree with?


All of it. You're getting defensive because a minority of fans question how Shaq's game would translate across eras. Your response should be about Shaq, not some reflexive lecture about how the current league is "soft". It's just such a tired narrative...




My response should be whatever I feel it should be, and you're free to disagree. I swear this country is turning into North Korea, where everybody thinks we should all have the same views.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:26 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
kwase wrote:
Wait, who's saying Shaq wouldn't dominate in today's game?!?! Look folks, this is not a "get off my lawn" statement, but any player that dominated in the 80's and 90's would dominate even more today. However, and listen carefully millennials...there are players today that put up big numbers that would not be able to deal the physical and mental toughness of the league 30 years ago.


Good heavens. I realize that a lot of people put on rose-colored glasses when they remember prior eras, but come on. It sounds like you've watched too many replays of classic playoff series from the '80s, and now that is the way you remember that era. I remember a league that played indifferent defense. The typical player was not physically or mentally tough compared to modern players. The three point shot was a novelty that almost no one could make with any consistency.

So along came the Pistons. They got physical and intimidating, and no one could deal with it. They weren't the norm. They were something new. Then Riley went to the Knicks and started doing something similar. Then we got copycats. It just about killed the game. The league tried shortening the three point line, but it didn't help much, and they moved it back after a year or two. By the time we got to the strike season in 1999, the league average was 91.6 ppg with a pace factor of 88.9. It was a crap product that involved a lot of isos trying to exploit the old illegal defense rule. In the NBA Finals in 1999 between the Knicks and Spurs, no team scored 100 points. The Spurs scored 90 points once. The Spurs beat the Knicks in Game 5 to win the series. The score was 78-77.

So the league changed the game to save it. They changed the old illegal defense rule to the defensive three second rule (which some people call "legalizing zone defense," but that isn't really accurate). They changed the hand checking rules and other rule interpretations. The game started to change in significant ways, starting with the D'Antoni/Nash Suns. But the changes weren't that swift at first, because a lot of coaches, GMs, and players were still stuck in the '90s mindset. By the time Kobe won his last title in 2010, average scoring was up to 100.4 ppg with a pace factor of 92.7. In the last season before the pandemic, it was 111.2 ppg with a pace factor of 100.

The point of this is that the Daly/Riley era was not some sort of golden age of mentally and physically tough players. It was an age of coaches sucking the life out of the game with negative tactics. Yes, a lot of the players from back then wouldn't be able to cut it in the modern game, just for the simple reason that they couldn't make a three point shot. They couldn't guard opposing players by acting like offensive linemen. If they took a cheap shot, they'd get a flagrant foul and probably ejected. Today, they would actually need to . . . play basketball.




I don't think the league changing the game saved it. Look at the ratings.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:42 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
kwase wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
kwase wrote:
Halflife wrote:
If we had prime Kobe Shaq teams would anybody think we could be beat? I heard someone say shaq wouldn’t be dominant in this era. IMO that team would eviscerate this league. Imho of course



Wait, who's saying Shaq wouldn't dominate in today's game?!?! Look folks, this is not a "get off my lawn" statement, but any player that dominated in the 80's and 90's would dominate even more today. However, and listen carefully millennials...there are players today that put up big numbers that would not be able to deal the physical and mental toughness of the league 30 years ago. The league is soft now. Please go back and look at those Bulls-Pistons series from the late 80's. Watch the entire games and ask yourself if these dudes today could take that type of punishment. Back then when you came into the league you were going to be tested to see if you would fight back, and if you didn't you were going to get bullied the rest of your career. There are many superstars today that haven't even broken a nail in a game. We need to stop that "Oh the players today are bigger, stronger and more skilled". No, they're not. And that's not just for the NBA...all pro sports have turned into cupcake leagues that don't stress fundamentals.


I was just watching Chris Broussard say that the NBA should shorten the season because 82 games is too hard on the players bodies. Really?!?! Back in the day guys used to play 4 games in 5 nights, travel on a bus, sleep in dinky motels with tiny beds, wear converse All-Stars with no cushioning whatsoever, drink beer after the game and Wilt even smoked cigarettes....but you're gonna tell me with personal chefs, chartered jets, personal trainers, 5-star hotels, state of the art equipment and all the supplements they have now that it's somehow more difficult??? Hogwash, these dudes are soft. I can count on one hand how many players of today could have played back then and been just as successful....with fingers to spare.


*Dear diary



I don't do passive-aggressiveness. Is there something I wrote that you don't agree with?


All of it. You're getting defensive because a minority of fans question how Shaq's game would translate across eras. Your response should be about Shaq, not some reflexive lecture about how the current league is "soft". It's just such a tired narrative...




My response should be whatever I feel it should be, and you're free to disagree. I swear this country is turning into North Korea, where everybody thinks we should all have the same views.


It must suck to be this insecure about the greatness of older players. If the greatness is that evident, why spend so much energy trying to denigrate the current generation as soft? There's a more relevant argument, but apparently it's somewhere in North Korea.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:12 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
I don't think the league changing the game saved it. Look at the ratings.


Look at league revenues, player salaries, and franchise values. TV ratings are a misleading measure, because they are affected by a lot of other factors that are not necessarily linked to the popularity of the product.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:36 pm    Post subject:

Weirdly..I’m not worried about who we play in the finals. If we make it there that means our team is healthy and we were able to build some continuity offensively.

I’m worried about not making the finals. Depending on our seeding..our first two rounds are gonna be tough due to Lebron and AD coming back so late into the season.

I rather not play the Suns or clippers in the first round.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:55 pm    Post subject:

Lakesh0wtime wrote:
Weirdly..I’m not worried about who we play in the finals. If we make it there that means our team is healthy and we were able to build some continuity offensively.

I’m worried about not making the finals. Depending on our seeding..our first two rounds are gonna be tough due to Lebron and AD coming back so late into the season.

I rather not play the Suns or clippers in the first round.


I agree. I think both teams need to worry about making the finals first. Both teams aren’t healthy and taking the teams as they are right now the finals will be tough for both. I’m just not sure which team faces a tougher task.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:57 pm    Post subject:

Snipes wrote:
Lakesh0wtime wrote:
Weirdly..I’m not worried about who we play in the finals. If we make it there that means our team is healthy and we were able to build some continuity offensively.

I’m worried about not making the finals. Depending on our seeding..our first two rounds are gonna be tough due to Lebron and AD coming back so late into the season.

I rather not play the Suns or clippers in the first round.


I agree. I think both teams need to worry about making the finals first. Both teams aren’t healthy and taking the teams as they are right now the finals will be tough for both. I’m just not sure which team faces a tougher task.


Surprisingly I'm actually not concerned about the Suns in round 1. It's only the Clippers in that initial round that worries me.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:16 pm    Post subject:

KingKobe20 wrote:
That 2013 team had soo much potential. Too many injuries and Dwight thinking he was more like Hakeem than Kareem.

Jim Buss choosing MDA over Phil Jackson. It drove me mad.
MDA for a team with 2 all star bigs? All to make a 38 year old Nash happy?
Both bigs made an all star team after leaving MDA. Pau twice in Chicago. And Dwight once in Houston. So they weren't washed. Despite underachieving that year under MDA.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:30 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
KingKobe20 wrote:
That 2013 team had soo much potential. Too many injuries and Dwight thinking he was more like Hakeem than Kareem.

Jim Buss choosing MDA over Phil Jackson. It drove me mad.
MDA for a team with 2 all star bigs? All to make a 38 year old Nash happy?
Both bigs made an all star team after leaving MDA. Pau twice in Chicago. And Dwight once in Houston. So they weren't washed. Despite underachieving that year under MDA.


To this day I wonder what could've been if we just went with Phil. All signs were pointing to him deciding to come back.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:23 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
kwase wrote:
Wait, who's saying Shaq wouldn't dominate in today's game?!?! Look folks, this is not a "get off my lawn" statement, but any player that dominated in the 80's and 90's would dominate even more today. However, and listen carefully millennials...there are players today that put up big numbers that would not be able to deal the physical and mental toughness of the league 30 years ago.


Good heavens. I realize that a lot of people put on rose-colored glasses when they remember prior eras, but come on. It sounds like you've watched too many replays of classic playoff series from the '80s, and now that is the way you remember that era. I remember a league that played indifferent defense. The typical player was not physically or mentally tough compared to modern players. The three point shot was a novelty that almost no one could make with any consistency.

So along came the Pistons. They got physical and intimidating, and no one could deal with it. They weren't the norm. They were something new. Then Riley went to the Knicks and started doing something similar. Then we got copycats. It just about killed the game. The league tried shortening the three point line, but it didn't help much, and they moved it back after a year or two. By the time we got to the strike season in 1999, the league average was 91.6 ppg with a pace factor of 88.9. It was a crap product that involved a lot of isos trying to exploit the old illegal defense rule. In the NBA Finals in 1999 between the Knicks and Spurs, no team scored 100 points. The Spurs scored 90 points once. The Spurs beat the Knicks in Game 5 to win the series. The score was 78-77.

So the league changed the game to save it. They changed the old illegal defense rule to the defensive three second rule (which some people call "legalizing zone defense," but that isn't really accurate). They changed the hand checking rules and other rule interpretations. The game started to change in significant ways, starting with the D'Antoni/Nash Suns. But the changes weren't that swift at first, because a lot of coaches, GMs, and players were still stuck in the '90s mindset. By the time Kobe won his last title in 2010, average scoring was up to 100.4 ppg with a pace factor of 92.7. In the last season before the pandemic, it was 111.2 ppg with a pace factor of 100.

The point of this is that the Daly/Riley era was not some sort of golden age of mentally and physically tough players. It was an age of coaches sucking the life out of the game with negative tactics. Yes, a lot of the players from back then wouldn't be able to cut it in the modern game, just for the simple reason that they couldn't make a three point shot. They couldn't guard opposing players by acting like offensive linemen. If they took a cheap shot, they'd get a flagrant foul and probably ejected. Today, they would actually need to . . . play basketball.


Very nice summary Aeneas - some of that I completely forgot, especially how the Knicks were...talk about grueling to watch.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:51 pm    Post subject:

I don't buy the "the players back then that couldn't make a three point shot wouldn't make it in todays NBA" mentality as the mid range shot is probably the most wide open shot in todays game because teams scheme to defend the perimeter or the paint and leave the md open.

Not to mention back then it was not considered a necessity like it is today, and players that didn't develop their games around a three point shot but were still deadly scorers and because of the way defense is played today (perimeter or paint) it would have left them wide open from mid.

Not to mention we have players that are still dominant and considered dominant despite still not having a jump shot to their name.

Also "guy could barely make a three" in that 90s era? Tell that to Reggie Miller, Glen Rice, Dennis Scott, Richmond, Dumars, Anderson, Nick the Quick, Barros, Curry, Price, Hardaway, Smitty and Starks and the list goes on.

Not to mention the multitude of players that could(and would) kill you from mid. Now the game did change when D'antoni's offense came around, but the NBA wasn't "nearly dead" because teams were 'stuck in the 90s mentality'. Let's not forget that the Lakers had the league it's most popular since the Bulls when they were rocking it from 99-00 to 03-04 when the band split up, winning 3 titles in that run with the TRIANGLE OFFENSE.

And it was this same "outdated 90s style" TRIANGLE OFFENSE that won us the titles in 2009 and 2010. This "Phoenix Suns style" offense never took off the way it did in the NBA till the Warriors started to use it to it's fullest capabilities. The Rockets started trying it but were considered novelty. D'Antoni tried it in New York and it didn't work. Which is why all those Lakers fans were screaming "GET RID OF D'ANTONI.. WE WANT PHIL!!" during our 2012 season, and why they thought hiring Byron Scott for "old school mentality" was an actual good thing.

It wasn't till the Warriors started wrecking other teams and winning titles with their style of basketball and what Curry was capable of that teams seemed to accept the direction basketball was going, and had the Lakers NOT fired D'Antoni they'd have already been 3 years ahead of it, but they took a backwards step hiring Scott, and then tried to rectify it with hiring Walton who was supposed to bring that 'warriors style' here.

So really, it wasn't till 2015 that style REALLY took off, because remember the knock on it was "you can't win Championships" with it, when the Warriors did in 2015, and Curry lit up the league with that unanimous MVP season, that's when teams started accepting that it had changed.


That's why I always said that Jerry Buss's last stroke of brilliance was that he saw where the league was headed and picked D'Antoni over Phil. But he will never get credit for it. If we had indeed stuck with D'Antoni and drafted Randle, D'Angelo Russell and Ingram, I can near guarantee you they'd have gotten a lot better development with that offense than whatever the heck Byron was 10 years behind on. Remember, back when we drafted Russell how sour people were cause we didn't get the "primary post up big man Jahlil Okafor."? Yeah a lot of NBA fans, and teams were stuck in the 90s mentality till Curry and the Warriors started busting their rears and winning titles.

But anyway back to the subject at hand.

Shaq would dominate in todays NBA
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:12 pm    Post subject:

Players back then didn't shoot the 3 like guys today because they didn't work on that shot. If they came up in this era they would. It's not as if they didn't work hard at their games...just not that aspect of it.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:51 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Players back then didn't shoot the 3 like guys today because they didn't work on that shot. If they came up in this era they would. It's not as if they didn't work hard at their games...just not that aspect of it.


Sure, tactics changed. But you're moving the goalpost. You are correct that players from prior eras would adapt to the modern game. They would benefit from modern training, diet, and medical procedures. Some would be just as successful in the modern era. Some wouldn't adapt as well. You never really know which players would adapt and which wouldn't. For example, some players would never be able to shoot threes effectively. We know this because it is true of some modern players.

But the premise of the OP is that players back in the old days were mentally and physically tough, and that all modern sports leagues are cupcake leagues. That's nonsense. I remember the typical game from the '80s (as opposed to the classic games that get replayed or put in DVD collections). The typical player was not physically or mentally tough. People used to joke about the indifferent defense. Superficially, the skill level was high because many of the players spent three or four years in college, but the tactics in the game had nowhere near the level of sophistication of the modern game. There was a lot of iso ball on offense, and a lot of quasi-zones on defense.

If you watched the Lakers play the Celtics in the playoffs, it was one thing. If you watched two average teams play on a random night in January, you would come away with a very different impression.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:39 am    Post subject:

I fully expect the Nets to be back in full strength for the playoffs, and the super friends will miraculously be without injury from then on. Let's just see if the lack of playtime together comes back to haunt them
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:13 pm    Post subject:

Watched most of the Nets Pacers game tonight. Pretty comical how good KD looks after the break. Currently at 40pts on 15-21 shooting.

The ceiling of that team is scary, but we gotta get there first.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:29 am    Post subject:

Quote:
The Nets say Kevin Durant, after hitting Indiana with a 42-point, 10-assist gem, will sit out tonight’s back-to-back against Portland for injury management on his left hamstring.

Kyrie Irving, out against Indiana with right groin soreness, is not listed on the injury report.


“Your turn. My turn.”
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:33 am    Post subject:

hm

Last edited by PenG_ on Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:23 am    Post subject:

Very curious to see those three on the court together when things get rough. Also, the reason why BKN continues to win games when each of them are in and out of the lineup is because all three of them can initiate scoring and get a bucket. Only LeBron can do that for us. Everyone else on our team are just finishers, and that includes AD.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:17 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
The Nets say Kevin Durant, after hitting Indiana with a 42-point, 10-assist gem, will sit out tonight’s back-to-back against Portland for injury management on his left hamstring.

Kyrie Irving, out against Indiana with right groin soreness, is not listed on the injury report.


“Your turn. My turn.”

That is called chemistry building for when it really counts.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:34 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
The Nets say Kevin Durant, after hitting Indiana with a 42-point, 10-assist gem, will sit out tonight’s back-to-back against Portland for injury management on his left hamstring.

Kyrie Irving, out against Indiana with right groin soreness, is not listed on the injury report.


“Your turn. My turn.”


He’s a cheat code, that size and jumper https://youtu.be/xaqW5hMaLbg
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:05 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
The Nets say Kevin Durant, after hitting Indiana with a 42-point, 10-assist gem, will sit out tonight’s back-to-back against Portland for injury management on his left hamstring.

Kyrie Irving, out against Indiana with right groin soreness, is not listed on the injury report.


“Your turn. My turn.”


He’s a cheat code, that size and jumper https://youtu.be/xaqW5hMaLbg


Kobe himself said KD was a 7 foot version of himself. He was obviously exaggerating to pay compliments but the total skill package combined with his size is unreal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcEC5dHKTl4

I keep citing this clip but there isn't a human being past or present with that size that could come close to this.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:10 pm    Post subject:

Lakers really exposed the Nets, looks like Bucks and Sixers already figired them out
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:15 pm    Post subject:

leking006 wrote:
Lakers really exposed the Nets, looks like Bucks and Sixers already figired them out


Those were both good games, easily winnable for the Nets. Can't really draw conclusions when they're without Harden.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:19 pm    Post subject:

Nets defense is like when Lakers has Harrell/Morris frontcourt, free lane to the basket.

Just imagine in a span of 4 minutes of Harrell/Morris can gave up a 10 point lead, what more the whole game like that for the Nets. Good thing the Nets has a superb offense. But if their shots aren't falling at high %, they automatically lose. I dont think Nets will win ny just offense in a series vs Bucks/Sixers. They will have a hard time against Heat and Knicks. I thin the only teams they can beat in the playoffs are Hawks, Celtics and Hornets.
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