He'll give you a 20/10 game every 15 games or so to tease you with possibility but otherwise, he's hot garbage.
If Kwame was as good as Drummond we wouldn't have lost to Phoenix and likely wouldn't have had to get rid of Marc Gasol when trading for Pau :3
The problem has not been Drummond. The problem has been Markieff, and him being in a lineup with Harrell.
Harrell worked with Kuzma, he would work well with Gasol. He does NOT work with Kieff.
If Vogel played Harrell with Gasol and the bench we'd have won more games and people wouldn't be looking at Drummond like he's the issue.
If you look at just their raw career stats they are actually very, very similar. Just look at their career FG%, both less than 60% albeit Drummond did actually hit 60% a couple seasons with the Pistons, but still, absolutely horrific #'s for a C.
If going just off the eye test, neither can catch a lob, neither are good defenders, both have hands of stone, neither can set a solid pick or finish around the rim. The only real stat that Drummond beats Kwame hands down is Blocks per game.
I don't think it matters what lineup Dre plays in, he's going to be the exact same player he has been his entire career, the same player we've been watching- Kwame 2.0. You keep bringing up Keif and Trez and although I do agree that pairing is not good, it has absolutely nothing to do with how bad Dre is as a player in general over his career. Trying to ignore how bad Dre is by deflecting the blame unto Keif and Trez is disingenuous at best. It's not their fault he can't hit a layup 1 foot away from the rim, it's not their fault he can't screen, it's not their fault he's constantly out of position trying to intercept passes at the top of the key so he can iso......
I wouldn't say he has hands of stone. He actually has pretty active hands for a center he does pretty well generating steals. With Kwame - he was in the system couldn't make catches. With Drummond - it's obvious - he doesn't anticipate half of these passes which makes sense because he's barely been on the team and is about to attend his 2nd practice ever today. _________________ Author of James Harden and the Strip Club
"The key to good decision making is not knowledge. It is understanding. We are swimming in the former. We are desperately lacking in the latter." - Malcom Gladwell
Drummond says Marc Gasol has been most helpful to him since he's come to the Lakers
Andre Drummond said that Marc Gasol has “probably been the biggest help” amongst teammates since Drummond got to the Lakers, despite Gasol’s playing time being impacted. Gasol’s knowlege has been “very beneficial” for Drummond.
https://twitter.com/LakersReporter/status/1390036783929303043 _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 1:34 pm Post subject:
lakerjoshua wrote:
MJST wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
I've said it once and I'll say it again.
Drummond is literally Kwame Brown 2.0
He'll give you a 20/10 game every 15 games or so to tease you with possibility but otherwise, he's hot garbage.
If Kwame was as good as Drummond we wouldn't have lost to Phoenix and likely wouldn't have had to get rid of Marc Gasol when trading for Pau :3
The problem has not been Drummond. The problem has been Markieff, and him being in a lineup with Harrell.
Harrell worked with Kuzma, he would work well with Gasol. He does NOT work with Kieff.
If Vogel played Harrell with Gasol and the bench we'd have won more games and people wouldn't be looking at Drummond like he's the issue.
If you look at just their raw career stats they are actually very, very similar. Just look at their career FG%, both less than 60% albeit Drummond did actually hit 60% a couple seasons with the Pistons, but still, absolutely horrific #'s for a C.
If going just off the eye test, neither can catch a lob, neither are good defenders, both have hands of stone, neither can set a solid pick or finish around the rim. The only real stat that Drummond beats Kwame hands down is Blocks per game.
I don't think it matters what lineup Dre plays in, he's going to be the exact same player he has been his entire career, the same player we've been watching- Kwame 2.0. You keep bringing up Keif and Trez and although I do agree that pairing is not good, it has absolutely nothing to do with how bad Dre is as a player in general over his career. Trying to ignore how bad Dre is by deflecting the blame unto Keif and Trez is disingenuous at best. It's not their fault he can't hit a layup 1 foot away from the rim, it's not their fault he can't screen, it's not their fault he's constantly out of position trying to intercept passes at the top of the key so he can iso......
Isn’t Drummond technically the greatest defensive rebounder of all time? Kwame did not seem like an elite rebounder. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
The Drummond and Kwame comparison is pretty laughable.
Kwame did one thing well really. He was a good defender. Not a good shot blocker but he was solid in the post and had quick (albeit tiny) hands and feet.
Drummond is a better scorer, rebounder, shot blocker, has a better motor. And comparing his hands to Kwame's hands is a silly comparison. Kwame had some of the worst hands for a big man ever. You'd hit him in the hands with passes and they'd bounce right off them.
To demonstrate how off that comparison is this was Kwame Brown's best season of his career (by far):
10.9 points (48.9% fg), 7.4 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks in 30.3 minutes. He would never in his career average more than 8.4 points, or more than 6.6 rebounds.
These are Andre Drummonds numbers in his short stint as a Laker:
Joined: 28 Nov 2007 Posts: 11277 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:32 pm Post subject:
J.C. Smith wrote:
The Drummond and Kwame comparison is pretty laughable.
Kwame did one thing well really. He was a good defender. Not a good shot blocker but he was solid in the post and had quick (albeit tiny) hands and feet.
Drummond is a better scorer, rebounder, shot blocker, has a better motor. And comparing his hands to Kwame's hands is a silly comparison. Kwame had some of the worst hands for a big man ever. You'd hit him in the hands with passes and they'd bounce right off them.
To demonstrate how off that comparison is this was Kwame Brown's best season of his career (by far):
10.9 points (48.9% fg), 7.4 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks in 30.3 minutes. He would never in his career average more than 8.4 points, or more than 6.6 rebounds.
These are Andre Drummonds numbers in his short stint as a Laker:
The bold highlights just how similar they actually are (as Lakers) considering Drummond has been a focal point of his teams offense most of his career whereas Kwame was not, imho.
Last edited by lakerjoshua on Wed May 05, 2021 2:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
The Drummond and Kwame comparison is pretty laughable.
Kwame did one thing well really. He was a good defender. Not a good shot blocker but he was solid in the post and had quick (albeit tiny) hands and feet.
Drummond is a better scorer, rebounder, shot blocker, has a better motor. And comparing his hands to Kwame's hands is a silly comparison. Kwame had some of the worst hands for a big man ever. You'd hit him in the hands with passes and they'd bounce right off them.
To demonstrate how off that comparison is this was Kwame Brown's best season of his career (by far):
10.9 points (48.9% fg), 7.4 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks in 30.3 minutes. He would never in his career average more than 8.4 points, or more than 6.6 rebounds.
These are Andre Drummonds numbers in his short stint as a Laker:
Joined: 04 May 2017 Posts: 3078 Location: The Left Coast
Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:38 pm Post subject:
governator wrote:
J.C. Smith wrote:
The Drummond and Kwame comparison is pretty laughable.
Kwame did one thing well really. He was a good defender. Not a good shot blocker but he was solid in the post and had quick (albeit tiny) hands and feet.
Drummond is a better scorer, rebounder, shot blocker, has a better motor. And comparing his hands to Kwame's hands is a silly comparison. Kwame had some of the worst hands for a big man ever. You'd hit him in the hands with passes and they'd bounce right off them.
To demonstrate how off that comparison is this was Kwame Brown's best season of his career (by far):
10.9 points (48.9% fg), 7.4 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks in 30.3 minutes. He would never in his career average more than 8.4 points, or more than 6.6 rebounds.
These are Andre Drummonds numbers in his short stint as a Laker:
So we been getting Drummond as advertised… looks bad cause AD and Bron
He'll look much better as AD continues to stay aggressive and once LeBron can play make for him. From a production and skills standpoint the Kwame comparison isn't fair, though he does have Kwame's hands and has difficulty catching some passes that would otherwise lead to easy baskets. _________________ “You can't be held captive by the fear of failure or the fear of what people may say.” - Kobe Bryant
Joined: 28 Nov 2007 Posts: 11277 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:46 pm Post subject:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
governator wrote:
J.C. Smith wrote:
The Drummond and Kwame comparison is pretty laughable.
Kwame did one thing well really. He was a good defender. Not a good shot blocker but he was solid in the post and had quick (albeit tiny) hands and feet.
Drummond is a better scorer, rebounder, shot blocker, has a better motor. And comparing his hands to Kwame's hands is a silly comparison. Kwame had some of the worst hands for a big man ever. You'd hit him in the hands with passes and they'd bounce right off them.
To demonstrate how off that comparison is this was Kwame Brown's best season of his career (by far):
10.9 points (48.9% fg), 7.4 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks in 30.3 minutes. He would never in his career average more than 8.4 points, or more than 6.6 rebounds.
These are Andre Drummonds numbers in his short stint as a Laker:
So we been getting Drummond as advertised… looks bad cause AD and Bron
He'll look much better as AD continues to stay aggressive and once LeBron can play make for him. From a production and skills standpoint the Kwame comparison isn't fair, though he does have Kwame's hands and has difficulty catching some passes that would otherwise lead to easy baskets.
Then why would LeBron ever even consider this?
Quote:
once LeBron can play make for him.
Look, I want Drummond to pan out as much as everyone else, but I'm trying to be realistic here based on what I'm seeing so far from him in game.
Joined: 04 May 2017 Posts: 3078 Location: The Left Coast
Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 3:01 pm Post subject:
lakerjoshua wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
governator wrote:
J.C. Smith wrote:
The Drummond and Kwame comparison is pretty laughable.
Kwame did one thing well really. He was a good defender. Not a good shot blocker but he was solid in the post and had quick (albeit tiny) hands and feet.
Drummond is a better scorer, rebounder, shot blocker, has a better motor. And comparing his hands to Kwame's hands is a silly comparison. Kwame had some of the worst hands for a big man ever. You'd hit him in the hands with passes and they'd bounce right off them.
To demonstrate how off that comparison is this was Kwame Brown's best season of his career (by far):
10.9 points (48.9% fg), 7.4 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks in 30.3 minutes. He would never in his career average more than 8.4 points, or more than 6.6 rebounds.
These are Andre Drummonds numbers in his short stint as a Laker:
So we been getting Drummond as advertised… looks bad cause AD and Bron
He'll look much better as AD continues to stay aggressive and once LeBron can play make for him. From a production and skills standpoint the Kwame comparison isn't fair, though he does have Kwame's hands and has difficulty catching some passes that would otherwise lead to easy baskets.
Then why would LeBron ever even consider this?
Quote:
once LeBron can play make for him.
Look, I want Drummond to pan out as much as everyone else, but I'm trying to be realistic here based on what I'm seeing so far from him in game.
The jury is still out. He has time to turn this around. He is still a good player, but just have to know his strengths and put him in a position to succeed. Can't force him to fill a role he isn't. He is unlike Howard, and so I think a lot of fans set themselves up for disappoint expecting that void to be filled. He can still make valuable contributions to the team in other ways. My early inclination has been he's an empty calorie stat filler. Hope I'm wrong and eat some crow. _________________ “You can't be held captive by the fear of failure or the fear of what people may say.” - Kobe Bryant
Joined: 28 Nov 2007 Posts: 11277 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 3:52 pm Post subject:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
governator wrote:
J.C. Smith wrote:
The Drummond and Kwame comparison is pretty laughable.
Kwame did one thing well really. He was a good defender. Not a good shot blocker but he was solid in the post and had quick (albeit tiny) hands and feet.
Drummond is a better scorer, rebounder, shot blocker, has a better motor. And comparing his hands to Kwame's hands is a silly comparison. Kwame had some of the worst hands for a big man ever. You'd hit him in the hands with passes and they'd bounce right off them.
To demonstrate how off that comparison is this was Kwame Brown's best season of his career (by far):
10.9 points (48.9% fg), 7.4 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks in 30.3 minutes. He would never in his career average more than 8.4 points, or more than 6.6 rebounds.
These are Andre Drummonds numbers in his short stint as a Laker:
So we been getting Drummond as advertised… looks bad cause AD and Bron
He'll look much better as AD continues to stay aggressive and once LeBron can play make for him. From a production and skills standpoint the Kwame comparison isn't fair, though he does have Kwame's hands and has difficulty catching some passes that would otherwise lead to easy baskets.
Then why would LeBron ever even consider this?
Quote:
once LeBron can play make for him.
Look, I want Drummond to pan out as much as everyone else, but I'm trying to be realistic here based on what I'm seeing so far from him in game.
The jury is still out. He has time to turn this around. He is still a good player, but just have to know his strengths and put him in a position to succeed. Can't force him to fill a role he isn't. He is unlike Howard, and so I think a lot of fans set themselves up for disappoint expecting that void to be filled. He can still make valuable contributions to the team in other ways. My early inclination has been he's an empty calorie stat filler. Hope I'm wrong and eat some crow.
And I'd be thrilled to share a plate of that crow with ya'.
Joined: 28 Nov 2007 Posts: 11277 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 3:55 pm Post subject:
CandyCanes wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
MJST wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
I've said it once and I'll say it again.
Drummond is literally Kwame Brown 2.0
He'll give you a 20/10 game every 15 games or so to tease you with possibility but otherwise, he's hot garbage.
If Kwame was as good as Drummond we wouldn't have lost to Phoenix and likely wouldn't have had to get rid of Marc Gasol when trading for Pau :3
The problem has not been Drummond. The problem has been Markieff, and him being in a lineup with Harrell.
Harrell worked with Kuzma, he would work well with Gasol. He does NOT work with Kieff.
If Vogel played Harrell with Gasol and the bench we'd have won more games and people wouldn't be looking at Drummond like he's the issue.
If you look at just their raw career stats they are actually very, very similar. Just look at their career FG%, both less than 60% albeit Drummond did actually hit 60% a couple seasons with the Pistons, but still, absolutely horrific #'s for a C.
If going just off the eye test, neither can catch a lob, neither are good defenders, both have hands of stone, neither can set a solid pick or finish around the rim. The only real stat that Drummond beats Kwame hands down is Blocks per game.
I don't think it matters what lineup Dre plays in, he's going to be the exact same player he has been his entire career, the same player we've been watching- Kwame 2.0. You keep bringing up Keif and Trez and although I do agree that pairing is not good, it has absolutely nothing to do with how bad Dre is as a player in general over his career. Trying to ignore how bad Dre is by deflecting the blame unto Keif and Trez is disingenuous at best. It's not their fault he can't hit a layup 1 foot away from the rim, it's not their fault he can't screen, it's not their fault he's constantly out of position trying to intercept passes at the top of the key so he can iso......
Isn’t Drummond technically the greatest defensive rebounder of all time? Kwame did not seem like an elite rebounder.
Draymond. Don't get your Bay Area privileges revoked, CC. Lol.
The bold highlights just how similar they actually are (as Lakers) considering Drummond has been a focal point of his teams offense most of his career whereas Kwame was not, imho.
If it were not for the fact that this was Kwame's best season of his career and comparing it to a short stint of Drummond on a stacked team where he is learning to fit in. Kwame's season was with the Wizards btw where he was a #1 pick and in his third season. His best year as a Laker or anywhere else after that season was was 8 and 6.
Now to illustrate that further Drummond's best year was: 17.6 points (53.3% fg), 15.2 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 1.9 steals, and 1.6 blocks... Which was last season. It wasn't an anomaly either the way that Kwame's was he averaged 17.3/15.6/1.7/1.7 and 15/16/1.5/1.6 in his previous two seasons and 17.5/13.5/1.6/1.2 in Cleveland this season.
It's just not a good comparison. Drummond is better in pretty much every aspect of the game except for probably as a post defender. He's also been more durable and stronger mentally. Drummond may not be an ideal fit but he's a good player.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:27 pm Post subject:
J.C. Smith wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
The bold highlights just how similar they actually are (as Lakers) considering Drummond has been a focal point of his teams offense most of his career whereas Kwame was not, imho.
If it were not for the fact that this was Kwame's best season of his career and comparing it to a short stint of Drummond on a stacked team where he is learning to fit in. Kwame's season was with the Wizards btw where he was a #1 pick and in his third season. His best year as a Laker or anywhere else after that season was was 8 and 6.
Now to illustrate that further Drummond's best year was: 17.6 points (53.3% fg), 15.2 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 1.9 steals, and 1.6 blocks... Which was last season. It wasn't an anomaly either the way that Kwame's was he averaged 17.3/15.6/1.7/1.7 and 15/16/1.5/1.6 in his previous two seasons and 17.5/13.5/1.6/1.2 in Cleveland this season.
It's just not a good comparison. Drummond is better in pretty much every aspect of the game except for probably as a post defender. He's also been more durable and stronger mentally. Drummond may not be an ideal fit but he's a good player.
How is someone who averages 17 and 15 not a top 20 player? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
It seems like there are some in this thread that are basically saying that Drummond is an upgraded kwame brown with better hands scoring rebounding and shot blocking. If so I’ll take it 👍
He can't have awhile to get used to his new team/role?
Comparing him to Kwame Brown?
A third of the board was willing to renounce everyone to pay him an extra few million to keep him...so we're all over the place. Time would be nice, but you're hearing a lot of panic since we don't have it. Looking forward to the playoffs even if we have to do the play in.
Vogel may be putting him in bad situations by overplaying him, etc., but he's shown in the past that he will quickly adapt in the playoffs (i.e. I could see him benching Drummond in certain matchups) too. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29282 Location: La La Land
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 6:47 pm Post subject:
He clogs the paint on offense. Sure, McGee and D12 couldn't space the floor either. But they had motors. They would screen, roll, rescreen, roll, fight for inside position on the glass on both sides of the floor, and play transition D. That's why McGee and D12 only played small spurts of time. Cause they played balls to the wall every second they were out there. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
He clogs the paint on offense. Sure, McGee and D12 couldn't space the floor either. But they had motors. They would screen, roll, rescreen, roll, fight for inside position on the glass on both sides of the floor, and play transition D. That's why McGee and D12 only played small spurts of time. Cause they played balls to the wall every second they were out there.
Cranjis McBasketball
@Tim_NBA
·
56m
Looking at which Bigs have dropped in impact the most from the regular season to the playoffs (using our LEBRON metric at
@The_BBall_Index
):
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29282 Location: La La Land
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:05 pm Post subject:
MJST wrote:
kikanga wrote:
He clogs the paint on offense. Sure, McGee and D12 couldn't space the floor either. But they had motors. They would screen, roll, rescreen, roll, fight for inside position on the glass on both sides of the floor, and play transition D. That's why McGee and D12 only played small spurts of time. Cause they played balls to the wall every second they were out there.
You don't think Drummond has a motor?
There's probably a better word to use than motor. Cause I get it takes energy to do what he does on the glass. Also he's good with his hands on defense.
But his lack of movement around the floor. It's not optimal. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
This dude actually said that he thinks that him and AD are starting to find that partnership, where... ? He’s been pitful with AD since Davis came back.
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