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lakerfanaticPT
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 5:55 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^Appreciate the clarity. I should have amplified the idea that I think Hyland/McBride may have the higher FTr next level because their best offensive aspect is the pull up jumper as a legitimate threat, especially with Hyland comfortably shooting from Curry distances off the dribble despite the slight frame (EXCELLENT energy transfer stuff from a shooting standpoint) and McBride

Cooper has a great way of drawing contact on the floor prior to the up. I had forgotten that was another big reason why I like him as well.

But yes, this conflicts with the idea of not drafting backup PGs (since they tend to be a dime a dozen) and extracting more value out of another position.

Springer is an obvious pick for me. Cooper, otoh, I'd want to make sure the development plan is in place, even if he's excessively ball dominant (33%+USG) and plays for Auburn, which absolutely has NBA level shot selection and usually has 1-2 big vertical threats and 1-2 3/D types to resemble NBA spacing.

Miles McBride seems like the "safest pick" here considering he's basically at an NBA level body, even if I think he's the best defender of the 3, but Sharife has elite abilities as a playmaker even if the ancillary stuff hasn't complemented him well yet, and Hyland is basically Jamal Crawford, just 25lbs lighter, all over again. That PUJ is no joke.


I agree with that order Mike. From the scouting videos, McBride seems like the best all around PG out of Hyland, Cooper, and even Mann (no defense).

But do we need a PG if Dennis remains??

We REALLY need an athletic 3 and D SF. Have for the past 2 seasons to help guard the PG's and Kawaii's of the league.

Trey Murphy out of Stanford looks nice but maybe we can trade back for him. Zaire Williams if he falls maybe??

The euro guys are interesting......especially Vrenz. But do we want to wait on his development??
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 3:30 pm    Post subject:

^I don't draft for need. GSW made this mistake last year and missed out on LaMelo. They're worse for it.

They legitimately drafted a guy 2 tiers worse in talent, to fit a positional need, when ALL teams need talent, anywhere.

Also, I'm guessing you meant Trey Murphy III out of UVA, but I have him 2nd round. Zaire, I don't expect to drop to LAL's pick.

Vrenz is more developed than other players in terms of individual skill.

Trey needs more development than Vrenz. Can't handle, can't 1 foot jump, can't initiate the offense. Vrenz can.

Quote:
Hyland, Cooper, and even Mann (no defense)


Hyland is the best defender. Mann is the best initiator. I'm just looking for BPA, not addressing team needs.
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 4:19 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^I don't draft for need. GSW made this mistake last year and missed out on LaMelo. They're worse for it.

They legitimately drafted a guy 2 tiers worse in talent, to fit a positional need, when ALL teams need talent, anywhere.

Also, I'm guessing you meant Trey Murphy III out of UVA, but I have him 2nd round. Zaire, I don't expect to drop to LAL's pick.

Vrenz is more developed than other players in terms of individual skill.

Trey needs more development than Vrenz. Can't handle, can't 1 foot jump, can't initiate the offense. Vrenz can.

Quote:
Hyland, Cooper, and even Mann (no defense)


Hyland is the best defender. Mann is the best initiator. I'm just looking for BPA, not addressing team needs.


Agree you should not draft for need. If BPA is a guard, they should take him and then trade KCP or Kuzma for a NEED.

Hyland seems to thin to be very good defensively to me....at least until he gains some weight/strength. He also is very tunnel visioned on scoring. Seems like a 2 guard mentality which is fine if you deem him the BPA. I would rather have McBride, as he seems to be a 2 way talent to me.
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 11:02 pm    Post subject:

^Can't really trade Klutch players on this team.

I get the concern about Hyland's physicality, but man the handle and range, actual shot form is effortless with that dude.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:58 pm    Post subject:

If you split the difference between Mann and Hyland would you get

Rokas Jokubaitis?

Run and Jump athlete: Hyland-Rokas-Mann
Body control: Mann=Rokas=Hyland
Passing: Mann=Rokas-Hyland
3pt: Mann=Rokas=Hyland
Defense: Hyland-Rokas-Mann based on above comments

Separation from defender: Mann=Rokas=Hyland
Mann = tight handles with body control and side step or step back
Hyland = quickness with shifty moves (i.e Jordan Clarkson)
Rokas = good quickness with stop and go and side step or step back
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:01 pm    Post subject:

Rokas is just Dragic to me, and not just because he's left handed.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:09 am    Post subject:

Definitely want Terry Taylor and EJ Onu on South Bay.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:02 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Rokas is just Dragic to me, and not just because he's left handed.


I'll take Just Dragic any day and every day.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:13 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^Yep, I'm right along with Henry/Duarte then Shannon Jr. Everything you said was accurate.

Henry is likely the better or best defender of the 3 on and off the ball. Just Duarte has the JuCo to Div I upbringing and improved a lot with ridiculous shooting % across the board. Even on twitter, it's Henry 1st, then Duarte/Shannon Jr. Just Shannon Jr. is the guy with the FTr because of that bursty straight line drive. Henry has the 58% to 62% finishing at the rim that I'm concerned about.

Duarte for me is the "standard late 1st round pick" for LAL, and it's been about guys more talented or less talented, but he's the bar. A ton of self creation, which I think goes away next level tbh. He's a rotation player at worst, and I don't see the outlier shooting holding at next level to make him a starter or better. He ain't Klay.

Vrenz is the guy I want.

Good to see you around.




I like Vrenz too Mike@lakersground!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:11 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Rokas is just Dragic to me, and not just because he's left handed.


I'll take Just Dragic any day and every day.


Rokas is more of a headfake, speed shift, straight line driver, but they look incredibly alike with their craft in attacking.

Dragic needed PG help in PHX before he got to where he is. Rokas doesn't have the strongest vert either.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:12 pm    Post subject:

LakersForever123 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^Yep, I'm right along with Henry/Duarte then Shannon Jr. Everything you said was accurate.

Henry is likely the better or best defender of the 3 on and off the ball. Just Duarte has the JuCo to Div I upbringing and improved a lot with ridiculous shooting % across the board. Even on twitter, it's Henry 1st, then Duarte/Shannon Jr. Just Shannon Jr. is the guy with the FTr because of that bursty straight line drive. Henry has the 58% to 62% finishing at the rim that I'm concerned about.

Duarte for me is the "standard late 1st round pick" for LAL, and it's been about guys more talented or less talented, but he's the bar. A ton of self creation, which I think goes away next level tbh. He's a rotation player at worst, and I don't see the outlier shooting holding at next level to make him a starter or better. He ain't Klay.

Vrenz is the guy I want.

Good to see you around.




I like Vrenz too Mike@lakersground!


Yeah, there's a ton of stuff to unravel skill wise, but I like his athleticism, a clue for PnR passing, ball handling at a wing spot, and shot variation, even if he isn't the most accurate shooter. I am concerned about the mechanics and wonder if he'll ever change it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:51 pm    Post subject:

Alperen Sengun - Domantas Sabonis; shows all the signs with dexterity with either hand. IQ follows with his poise and patience in the painted area. Just a matter of time before the ball handling further develops for him to be a transition pushing 4 and arguably a playmaking one, and shooting to line up after that. Just a bit undersized at 4 but makes sense skill-wise.

Roko Prkacin - As I've said before, the guy we wish Slava really was. More patience with passing ability, peculiar flick of the wrist on his shot, but a better overall shooter, slasher, and finisher. Wing skills in a 4 body is always a win.

Sharife Cooper - Wouldn't say he'd make a particularly great Laker because he can't shift defenses with his handle and opts for body position/strength at his PG size to create gaps. Also had an ideal situation to get tons of floor spacing with perimeter shooting bigs. But still, able to get to the rim at a high frequency with 47%+ of his shots at the rim, even if he converts at just a 52% rate. Jumper needs working, but the IQ is absolutely there, especially for timing of passes mid-drive for lob targets. A specialty.

Scottie Barnes - Dropped him a ton for his lack of shooting and verticality, but absolutely a strong wing defender with ball handling and passing skills. Just unsure the shooting will ever come.

Ziaire Williams - The smaller Brandon Ingram without the outlier length, reliant on his pull up jumper ability and great stocks% rate. There's more in him to be a potent offensive threat, but the results aren't there just yet.

Rokas Jokubaitis - High motor, Dragic, pick and roll feel. Heavy use of hesitation dribbles, headfakes, some shift in speed, but not direction. Mostly straight line after that. Underrated feel.

Vrenz Bleijenbergh - Wing in PF length with ball handling and shooting variation. Concerned he shoots like LaMelo so it's not so easy for his shooting to project upward with accuracy. Absolutely fluid, makes basic PnR reads and has even come off screens for shooting off motion. Defense is a bit of an issue, especially against NBA competition, but it's still rare to get that kind of offensive skill set with his athleticism/size combination.

Miles McBride - +3 wingspan. Heats up ball handlers 1v1 in a unique way. Caruso-like. Seems to be a staple out of WV. High motor PG with flashes of shot creating ability due to the pull up jumper. Not the best finisher at the rim at just 56%, but basically average elsewhere, 38%middy, 30% arc. 46% in C+S. Has a legitimate jump shot, and while power may get sapped near the top, compensates for it on pull back, which may hurt long range accuracy. Able to change direction 2x on PnR drives, a staple of drive effectiveness.

Bones Hyland - Tons of inner Chi. Arguably the best Iso ball handler of the players listed to get his own shot. Steph-like range, natural shot progression. Just lightweight, unsure of his ability to handle NBA contact even with that inner Chi. Won't be able to defend next level.

Jared Butler - Confusing prospect. Has advanced dribble, but doesn't create space. 3 level shooter with youth and stock%, but not that outlier passing ability or finishing ability to make him a lottery level PG. Jeff Teague vibes.

Davion Mitchell - Looks every bit the part, played natural PG next to Butler, but for whatever reason, doesn't get docked by age like Duarte does, even if Duarte is arguably the better shooter, wing defender, and has more size.


Chris Duarte
- Outlier shooter year, good NBA athlete with some pop after mid-run. Enough passing ability and defensive ability. If I wasn't unsure about shot translation to NBA level due to age, he would be lottery. If he were 20 or 21 with his skill level, people would arguably project Devin Booker.

Kessler Edwards - Kerry Kittles vibes but with actual strength. Doesn't pop verticallty unfortunately, but does seek out some contact in the paint and is comfortable being physical. Flat perimeter shooter, linked to his shot form. Ball goes outward more than generating lift upward from his legs. Straight line driver.

Aaron Henry - Like watching a Stacey Augmon incarnate. High level dexterity with either hand gives promise to improving ball handling, but even better, it applies directly to finishing at the rim for slightly easier finishes. Shoots lefty, but like a right handed player, without the extreme shoulder lean in.

Tre Mann - mixed feelings as a PG/SG because he's more of a smooth athlete than a burst one. Loves the mid drive, pull back to create separation. Can get crowded by traps and athletic defenders with is a bit of a flag. Negative wingspan as well.

Day'Ron Sharpe

Usman Garuba - Also another guy I wouldn't necessarily consider a Laker, but with unique defensive strengths in read and reaction time, awareness, strength, and lightfootedness, just peculiar way of being able to attack while playing defense. Flat shot to the 3pt line, limited skill, more of a put back guy, not a vertical threat.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:49 am    Post subject:

In Process:

Cade Cunningham - Jumbo initiator, best feel, improved shooter, underrated defender despite being energy efficient.
Evan Mobley - Underrated big that plays more like a wing, yet has the defensive ability to to quarterback an entire team. High post base.
Jalen Suggs - Did you know he was a quarterback? High motor, high floor, limited ball handling in PnR, but makes reads and a consistent pull up jumper behind the arc with the step back, not afraid of contact.
Jalen Green - Upside play here, just unique ability to finish with body control and dexterity near the hoop. Just enough of a pull up jumper threat. Really needs the strength and ball handling ability.
Moses Moody - Worst case 3 and D, best case, Khris Middleton. Deflection rate, some nose for the ball, ideal shooting form, even with the slight right side lean.

Josh Giddey - Jumbo initiator, break even or negative wingspan, just an outlier ball handler as a playmaker, great processor, takes all advantage reads. More of a perimeter set shooter, but comfortable developing a floater.
Scottie Barnes - Surprised I have him here, but PG for FSU, has the ball handling, wing defensive ability, and solid enough passing ability. Just can't shoot, lacks touch, not explosive near the rim. May be best as a 4. Not a gravity threat. Like, a poor man's Ben Simmons.
Alperen Sengun - The hope is he becomes Domantas Sabonis. Shows the processing, touch, flashes the ball handling and shooting. Sabonis did the same out of Gonzaga at age 19/20. Needs the outlier guard skill development + strength to really pan out here. Not afraid of contact.
Jalen Johnson - Concerns about him scoring in the halfcourt, limited sample size, love the transition ball handling ability, decision making, passing ability from inside out. Hitch in the jumpshot, advanced numbers reflect outlier abilities as a rebounder/steal%/blk% guy at 4/3.
Jaden Springer - Young, a wing in a guard body. 2-way player that relies on physicality more than craft, which may hamper him. Outlier strength for his age, great defensive abilities at POA down to playing physical in the paint. Jumpshot is a big question mark. Just not a natural stroke, shoulder heavy, doesn't generate lift fluidly.

Jonathan Kuminga - Athletic, physical. The tools are there, need to see the touch. Makes NBA caliber moves without the results. Also another 4/3 big wing type. Perhaps it's a matter of training/development by team, but not all teams have great training. Worth the risk here.
Keon Johnson - NBA caliber athlete, defensive player, but the athleticism doesn't turn into efficient results. Really only comfortable from 15' and sometimes the game looks a bit fast, still catching up to his athletic abilities and what he can do on the floor. Worst case, you've got a wing defender and a lot of athletic tools to work with. Not the most basketball literate.
Kai Jones - Like Kuminga, has the NBA moves as well, more height, all of the wing-like athleticism out of a 6'10" frame. Not as aggressive scorer as you'd like. Ideally, he'd play 3, motor concerns, ball handling concerns in playmaking situations here.
James Bouknight - NBA level athlete, limited ball handler, more likely a 3 and D guy that is a single position defender. Can be an explosive player towards the rim.
Franz Wagner - 3 and D, Processor, good decision maker, good athlete.

Roko Prkacin - As I've said before, the guy we wish Slava really was. More patience with passing ability, peculiar flick of the wrist on his shot, but a better overall shooter, slasher, and finisher. Wing skills in a 4 body is always a win.
Ziaire Williams - Defender, pull up jump shooter trying to get used to the pointing finger release point. Slightly smaller BI, much better ability to read defensively; deflections, passing angles, cut off angles, etc.
Rokas Jokubaitis - Screams Dragic. Hesitation dribble, headfakes, high motor on drives. Can't defend, but not really expected to. 3 level shooter, mostly a straight line driver out of PnR, but should be able to hit the brakes and develop a 2nd change of direction when snaking out of PnR.
Vrenz Bleijenburgh - Wing in PF length with ball handling and shooting variation. Concerned he shoots like LaMelo so it's not so easy for his shooting to project upward with accuracy. Absolutely fluid, makes basic PnR reads and has even come off screens for shooting off motion. Defense is a bit of an issue, especially against NBA competition, but it's still rare to get that kind of offensive skill set with his athleticism/size combination.
JT Thor - 3 and D PF out of Auburn that shows incredible touch. Long way to go in terms of strength, skill set on both ends. Has some ball-handling ability, not afraid to be aggressive. Tons to work with here, but this is a home run swing. Defends without fouling (big indicator) and can make himself effective there. Perhaps considered a bit soft, but that may be in line with the strength he needs to build, just to be an average rebounder, and powerful finisher.

Miles McBride - Combo guard, pull up jumper, can really heat up ball handlers and force turnovers. Gets caught off ball watching. Does the 2x direction out of PnR, certainly capable. Low TO rate.
Chris Duarte - 2 way wing with vertical pop. Outlier shooting year. Outlier age. Concerned that upside is limited due to age. More of a 3 and D player next level than a shot creator. Needs more craft as a ball handler with strength to create the space as a dynamic scorer.
Kessler Edwards - Another 2 way wing, prior position as a big. Energy generation issues from his base. Upper body strength, but not in the base. Flat shot from the energy generation. Straight line driver. Capable off ball. Lacks vertical pop.
Josh Christopher - Every bit the NBA athlete and shot creator, just opts for a lot of lower percentage shots with higher degree of difficulty. Has the stock percentage, but not the FTr considering his strength and ball handling ability.
Jared Butler - Like Josh Christopher, has shot creating ability/advanced ball handling, but not the craft to create easier shots. Played 2 next to Davion Mitchell so may have been hidden a bit on offense. Still has youth on his side along with the advanced defensive numbers.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:29 pm    Post subject:

Mike@lg,

Any thoughts on EJ Onu? 6’11 ctr, 7’6 ws, who can shoot 3 pointers and led the nation in blocked shots?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:22 pm    Post subject:

LakersForever123 wrote:
Mike@lg,

Any thoughts on EJ Onu? 6’11 ctr, 7’6 ws, who can shoot 3 pointers and led the nation in blocked shots?


2nd round pick to undrafted, but I'd definitely give him a shot at South Bay. The talent is tantalizing, but I'm not sure if he can read the floor on both ends.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:35 pm    Post subject:

thanks Mike!
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:28 pm    Post subject:

LakersForever123 wrote:
thanks Mike!



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:18 pm    Post subject:

delete

Last edited by Mark10 45 on Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:17 am; edited 24 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:43 am    Post subject:

Mike@lg. Any thoughts on Santi Aldama. His play reminds me a little bit of Pau Gasol/Toni kukoc. 2nd round steal?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:20 pm    Post subject:

LakersForever123 wrote:
Mike@lg. Any thoughts on Santi Aldama. His play reminds me a little bit of Pau Gasol/Toni kukoc. 2nd round steal?


I have question marks about him. He's a fluid player, but not enough athl to play one direction or strength to play the other direction.

I'd rather have other 2nd rounders in priority.

Here's one of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvyE-k3ixGA
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:04 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
LakersForever123 wrote:
Mike@lg. Any thoughts on Santi Aldama. His play reminds me a little bit of Pau Gasol/Toni kukoc. 2nd round steal?


I have question marks about him. He's a fluid player, but not enough athl to play one direction or strength to play the other direction.

I'd rather have other 2nd rounders in priority.

Here's one of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvyE-k3ixGA



Thanks Mike!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:55 am    Post subject:

^I wish he could decelerate better. Hoping that gets better with NBA training. Has more handles than he should, should never be a playmaker, and his deceleration improvement is critical to having a healthy bball career.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:54 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^I wish he could decelerate better. Hoping that gets better with NBA training. Has more handles than he should, should never be a playmaker, and his deceleration improvement is critical to having a healthy bball career.


Kid has some surprising shake. I really was t expecting that. What’s he like defensively?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:01 am    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^I wish he could decelerate better. Hoping that gets better with NBA training. Has more handles than he should, should never be a playmaker, and his deceleration improvement is critical to having a healthy bball career.


Kid has some surprising shake. I really was t expecting that. What’s he like defensively?


He has one direction. Because of his deceleration problems, he'll have issues vs guys that change direction on him. But late 2nd to UDFA? This is like a no brainer pick for me.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:13 pm    Post subject:

I had a chance to watch Scottie Barnes workout in person. Man, what a talent and competitor with the drive to be the best. He was was working out with some kid named Brown from Texas. Brown was also impressive and a freak of nature
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