In retrospect...was it worth it?
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LakerSD
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:34 am    Post subject:

Mamba Mentality wrote:
troy wrote:
Yes, it was worth it. And if not for Robert Pelinka's destruction of our Championship team, we'd likely be in position for a repeat.


That's not fair. Injuries to our two best players set us back. Season isn't over.


As much as the new supporting cast has underperformed imo, I don’t know how last year’s team even wins more than 3 out of 20 games without LBJ and AD.

There is no way they could do better than 3-17 imo. Just not enough scoring or talent. They would be a Rondo injury away (and we know how often he gets injured) from being a 1-19 disaster.

Pelinka had to make the moves. 2019-20 roster wasn’t sustainable...and remember it was plan B after the attempted Kawhi sabotage.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:34 am    Post subject:

The only thing that wasn't worth it was letting Randle walk out the door for nothing. That was stupid at the time and it's even more stupid now.

Zero reason why adding LeBron could not have been doing whilst keeping Julius as well.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:51 am    Post subject:

Any time your team wins a championship, it was worth it.

Yeah, there is a struggle afterwards during the rebuilding process, but no one can take away those championships that have been won. Plus, we finally have a chance to overtake the Celtics for total championships and that is worth an immense amount.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:52 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
So it’s a tough pill to swallow to say we should have gotten something for him when we tried and couldn’t, and to then also say Rondo was the right call but we got 0 for Randle while leaving out that there’s no Rondo without releasing Randle.


Fair enough I'll get you the sources on how Randle was treated compared to how other GM's treat their assets in another post.

As for Rondo, please explain how there's no Rondo without releasing Randle, I don't get it. Trading Randle into capspace+trade-exception would've kept the cap-space situation the same. Recall:
* the Lakers had $41 million of cap-space after renouncing Randle and before signing Rondo. This is July 2018. They gave 9 to Rondo thus leaving roughly 32-33 open for a max slot.
* the max slot was realistically not to be used until 2019 when Kwahi (and similar lucrative) free-agents were coming onto the market.

Even if Randle was traded for salary-filler/trade-ballast and/or expirings, there was a whole season available to dump these obtained assets to get back the max slot *if needed*. So Rondo was still obtainable in this scenario - albeit with a little bit of added risk/burden of dumping assets.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:54 am    Post subject:

Big Shot Bob wrote:
The only thing that wasn't worth it was letting Randle walk out the door for nothing. That was stupid at the time and it's even more stupid now.

Zero reason why adding LeBron could not have been doing whilst keeping Julius as well.

i think they were going for the 2 max slot. also Julius wasn't exactly on fire before this season. Knicks fans were making fun of him even at the beginning of this season.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:56 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
activeverb wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
activeverb wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
People keep mentioning how some teams have never won a title but we are the Lakers who average 2.5 titles per decade since 1980

So regressing to one title a decade isn't really a success by Lakers standards.

If we win this year... then one can make that claim it was unquestionably a good move. If we lose and regress back into the dark ages... we are now headed towards a one title per decade average which is below our Dr. Buss era standards.

But you keep telling yourselves how brilliant it was that we are now in a position where we need to sign Schroder for over 20 million plus because we've gotten rid of all our picks and young assets.

Denver has MPJ, Jokic, Murray, Aaron Gordon, Bol Bol as a young core.

We have THT... then AD, Kuzma and Schroder as a youngish core.

Giving up everything for one title is not living up to Lakers standards.



The NBA is a lot different than it was 20 or 40 years ago. If the only thing that will satisfy you is Showtime type success, you're just setting yourself up to be disappointed.

It's like a bulls fan saying a single ring today would disappoint them because they've averaged two rings a decade for the past three decades. The stat is true, but it's irrelevant to 2021.


That's fair but let's face the fact that people keep using a very fortunate win last season to justify a questionably aggressive strategy to satisfy LBJ.

If people said both ways were viable paths, I don't have a problem with it.

The way they say it was the only way is absolutely ludicrous in my opinion.


I see it in a more straightforward way.

We won a ring last year. Therefore, we know the strategy we actually took was successful.

We have no idea if an alternative strategy of keeping the existing players would have resulted in success or not.

So I will take the actual, proven success, over a guess of what might have happened with an alternative strategy.


But people are already declaring victory when we've averaged 2.5 titles per 10 years the past 40 years when we might end up winning one in ten if we don't win this season. No one knows what happens if LBJ doesn't tear his groin.

One in ten is not modern Lakers success... And most pundits thought we were not going to win last year but we got hot from three and signed two hall of fame players at minimum salaries.

It wasn't a well constructed plan... but people are trying to argue like it was.


As opposed to missing the playoffs 6 years straight with the YUTES (and one year of LBJ)?


We were headed for the playoffs before LBJ tore his groin. You yourself have said we must sign Schroder because we have no other choice. You can spin this all you want but it is not an ideal position to be in right now.


Lol. Bc I’m not tripping about “only” having AD/LBJ. I’m not concerned about rebuilding. We need to reload to keep it going and losing Dennis for nothing hurts us. What a disingenuous argument.


You think AD is worth more than the best of our youth... all of our cost controlled lesser players and draft picks. I disagree.

we gave up BI/Lonzo/Hart + 4th pick (garland maybe?) for AD, and that's not really steep.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:59 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Yeah I do. Because it literally led to a championship. All you have is speculation. Enjoy your alternative universe.


Why do I think the Dodgers have the best team in baseball?

Because they have the best position players and a deep starting rotation.

If they lose the title, and the Angels win, I won't think the Angels were wise to have no pitching and have a superior team to the Dodgers. I would say they got lucky and be happy for them.

Just because you won means nothing in terms of choosing the best team.

if the Angels win, that means their pitching is good enough or their offense is generational great. there is no luck in winning because you have to play multiple teams multiple games.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:59 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Lakerwayne wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Lakerwayne wrote:
BILBJH wrote:


We have THT... then AD, Kuzma and Schroder as a youngish core


I would add Caruso there.

To answer the question I would agree with other ppl here that it was worth it. Even if it was possible to keep that group together under the salary cap I don’t think they would have ever reached championship success. The team that won last year was constructed to fit together with players games complementing one another, so the team would add up to more than the sum of its parts. When it’s a bunch of draft picks and you were choosing bpa the players don’t always complement eachother as well and I think that would have been the case with the lakers had they kept all those guys.


It's not about keeping the entire group together. Obviously we'd could only afford half or less of the key players. It's about having maybe two young stars... some good cost controlled role players and all of our picks.

I can't believe people are so stubborn that they continue to deny we are in a tough place right now in terms of assets.


Ya I can see that. It seems like what you are saying is that maybe there was another way to win a championship and still also be in a better place right now in terms of assets and youth. I guess it’s possible. I’m not sure who you were referring to as people who are so stubborn to continue to deny we are in a tough place right now in terms of assets. Is that me? Not sure but here’s what I do think about the team in terms of assets, youth, and future prospects: Most teams that win championships are veteran teams going all in so this team is no exception. So ya there are no obvious young stars on this team or anything but there are some good younger players including tht kuz and Caruso that still have some room to grow (especially tht) and guys in their early primes like ad schroeder kcp and others so it’s not an “old” team especially as championship rosters go. I hope we keep those younger homegrown guys (kuz Caruso and tht) and some of the picks we still have. I don’t think the team is in a great spot assets wise but not horrible either. Maybe a bit tough but could be worse it’s ok. So I’ll take a team coming off a championship that’s still got a bit left in terms of assets over a what if scenario u know? With all that said ya it was sad to see some of those players go I think I knew Ingram and randle were gonna be this good and never wanted to lose them but ya it happens. Earlier this season before Drummond came along though I spent more time thinking about how role players the team let go like brook lopez and Ivica zubac could have been helpful but whatever Drummond and gasol are more than capable. This team is really good and just needs to put it together. And I don’t think the future of this team is necessarily bleak I think it’s a veteran championship team that still has some younger/early prime guys and some picks left so needs to manage what’s left properly and not squander (like sometimes happened in the past) if they want to continue to be a good team and/or compete for championships.


Thanks for the civil reply.

I think if LBJ quits when his time has come and doesn't try to linger on when he no longer has it... and we sign someone like Dame to pair with AD then that will correct a lot of problems quickly.

But if he stays too long after he declines it will be very difficult for awhile and be very reminiscent of a recent tough spell for the franchise.

I just felt keeping more assets would allow the team to have a smoother transition into the post LBJ era.


So correct me if I'm wrong, it seems you have some scenario in your mind where the Lakers get lebron, we also get AD, we don't give up all the assets we did to get AD. We still win a ring last year with AD and Lebron, however we also have these great assets to move forward with after LeBron retires and we immediately get another free agent superstar on top of all the assets we kept. Is that the scenario you're operating under?

Because, honestly, the more you post, it's not even clear to me what you were expecting the Lakers to do. It seems like you have this I want my cake and eat it too scenario

Now, if you're just saying it wasn't worth it to trade all the kids for AD, you'd give back last year's ring, and take a shot at more success over the long term with another strategy, that I get. I just don't get this idea that we keep all these assets and get AD too


If we win two years in a row... or somehow LBJ bounces back next season at close to MVP level and we win next year. I have to say I was wrong because although I don't like the method, I cannot argue with the result.

I feel like we were on a trajectory to compete for titles by keeping the young core AND adding two major stars (Which by all accounts was the plan) When LBJ came available, I was happy but then he took over and became LeGM when he tore his groin. He became frustrated with the situation much like he's becoming right now and dismantled the team to get AD right now. This is what he also did in Cleveland.

Now people often conflate LBJ's brilliance as a player with his brilliance as a GM. You can't argue that he's had success building championship teams as he's done it three times... but most of the time he builds something that suits his unique skill set that isn't really sustainable with him no longer part of the equation. This is fine when he's 25 years old and entering his prime... it isn't fine when he's 35 and can go downhill at any minute.

I wanted to wait and try to sign AD the following year. Yes, I agree that this could have gone sideways... and I get everyone's worry after what happened with Paul George. But I've always felt we lost PG because we preferred to kiss LBJ's ass instead of Paul's and that was the right decision. In a best case scenario we would have kept most of our assets and all of our draft picks and acquired AD the following year. In a worst case scenario, we could still sign the best elite available.

Now I get the part where AD is a unicorn and 90% of the elite players aren't as good as him... but I think most elite players PLUS the best of our young assets, all our minor cost controlled players, and draft picks are better than AD. Especially with his injury history which has unfortunately reared its ugly head this season. If he doesn't recover fully from this, then the trade becomes catastrophic for the near future.

So would I trade the championship to be in a young asset rich situation like Denver or New Orleans? For one title yes... for multiple titles no.
I'm not minimizing getting 17... but I truly thought we were on a path to 20 with all of our riches and two max cap spaces. Right now it looks like we are going to be stuck on 17 for awhile.

Though I didn't see us beating Denver last night, so you never know and miracles can happen.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:07 am    Post subject:

People know that the Lakers are all about the rings right? We will always make sacrifices to win it all. It is not enough to be competitive. We would have been a competitive team that would have won zilch in the post season. Ya'll know there are competitive nba franchises that have NEVER won - EVER.

Let that sink in....

Also, If you grew up in the 80's....

It was more than worth it because it shut up the city of Boston and Ainge and Lurch and Paul Pierce and all those other green wearing nasty ass m f's that seem to conspire against the purple n gold. And it shut them up forever!

They all can't say sht now...

Was it worth it...

Yeah man - it was worth it.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
In what universe can LBJ/BI/Jules/DLO/Zo all share the rock? These guys developed ans had more opportunities away from each other. I’d argue that even Jules/BI/DLO together could not develop the way they did when they were apart from each other.


They can't. This board is littered with pie in the sky scenarios or teams that look good by video game standards. Randle is having a great year, he's also extremely high usage. Now you're adding Lebron to that, the most high usage guy ever, and Ingram who needs the ball in his hands?

Sure this team in theory sounds great, too bad it wouldn't work and guys would get pissed off. Also, again, how are they going to pay Randle, BI, and Dlo? with Lebron?
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:24 am    Post subject:

This thread is also comical. No wonder other fans call us spoiled.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:36 am    Post subject:

lakers4life78 wrote:
This thread is also comical. No wonder other fans call us spoiled.


That's Lakersground right. We have that one poster who gets incensed if any other team makes a trade or signs a free agent, because he believes the Lakers should be able to get every one of them.

Now we have a poster who thinks that any players who put on a Lakers jersey should be able to replicate the Shaq-Kobe three peat and Showtimes five rings.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:41 am    Post subject:

lakers4life78 wrote:
This thread is also comical. No wonder other fans call us spoiled.

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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:54 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
lakers4life78 wrote:
This thread is also comical. No wonder other fans call us spoiled.


That's Lakersground right. We have that one poster who gets incensed if any other team makes a trade or signs a free agent, because he believes the Lakers should be able to get every one of them.

Now we have a poster who thinks that any players who put on a Lakers jersey should be able to replicate the Shaq-Kobe three peat and Showtimes five rings.


Well we did have three number 2 picks, a number 4 pick, a number 7 pick and several brilliant lower first rounds and second round picks along with two max cap spaces. Aiming for a dynasty shouldn't be viewed as a crime.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:59 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
activeverb wrote:
lakers4life78 wrote:
This thread is also comical. No wonder other fans call us spoiled.


That's Lakersground right. We have that one poster who gets incensed if any other team makes a trade or signs a free agent, because he believes the Lakers should be able to get every one of them.

Now we have a poster who thinks that any players who put on a Lakers jersey should be able to replicate the Shaq-Kobe three peat and Showtimes five rings.


Well we did have three number 2 picks, a number 4 pick, a number 7 pick and several brilliant lower first rounds and second round picks along with two max cap spaces. Aiming for a dynasty shouldn't be viewed as a crime.

how many chips did the OKC dynasty win? nobody could've drafted like Sam pristi.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:05 am    Post subject:

I hate winning a championship. I rather enjoy making the 1st round and maybe 2nd round.

SAYS NO KNOWLEDGEABLE LAKER FAN
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:20 am    Post subject:

AD23 wrote:
I hate winning a championship. I rather enjoy making the 1st round and maybe 2nd round.

SAYS NO KNOWLEDGEABLE LAKER FAN


EXACTLY!!

But, but, but, I would rather have Randle and Lonzo....lol
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:26 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
activeverb wrote:
lakers4life78 wrote:
This thread is also comical. No wonder other fans call us spoiled.


That's Lakersground right. We have that one poster who gets incensed if any other team makes a trade or signs a free agent, because he believes the Lakers should be able to get every one of them.

Now we have a poster who thinks that any players who put on a Lakers jersey should be able to replicate the Shaq-Kobe three peat and Showtimes five rings.


Well we did have three number 2 picks, a number 4 pick, a number 7 pick and several brilliant lower first rounds and second round picks along with two max cap spaces. Aiming for a dynasty shouldn't be viewed as a crime.


Didn't have max slots because of Mozdeng.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:38 am    Post subject:

Mamba Mentality wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
activeverb wrote:
lakers4life78 wrote:
This thread is also comical. No wonder other fans call us spoiled.


That's Lakersground right. We have that one poster who gets incensed if any other team makes a trade or signs a free agent, because he believes the Lakers should be able to get every one of them.

Now we have a poster who thinks that any players who put on a Lakers jersey should be able to replicate the Shaq-Kobe three peat and Showtimes five rings.


Well we did have three number 2 picks, a number 4 pick, a number 7 pick and several brilliant lower first rounds and second round picks along with two max cap spaces. Aiming for a dynasty shouldn't be viewed as a crime.


Didn't have max slots because of Mozdeng.


People tend to somehow forget that big stack of wasted money ($35M) lol
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:56 am    Post subject:

Was it worth it?
Yes

Would I rather stick with Julius, DeAngelo and BI, watching them growing and eventually becoming All Stars while having deeper and deeper playoff runs as lakers from the draft to maybe a shot to the finals?
Absolutely.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:08 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
activeverb wrote:
lakers4life78 wrote:
This thread is also comical. No wonder other fans call us spoiled.


That's Lakersground right. We have that one poster who gets incensed if any other team makes a trade or signs a free agent, because he believes the Lakers should be able to get every one of them.

Now we have a poster who thinks that any players who put on a Lakers jersey should be able to replicate the Shaq-Kobe three peat and Showtimes five rings.


Well we did have three number 2 picks, a number 4 pick, a number 7 pick and several brilliant lower first rounds and second round picks along with two max cap spaces. Aiming for a dynasty shouldn't be viewed as a crime.


In your case, frankly, I think you just have unreasonable expectations based on the standard of the Shaq-Kobe three-peat and the Kareem-Magic Showtime era.

You pretty much said that if the Lakers don't win 2.5 rings every 10 years you think something is wrong. I don't think that's a standard that will persist from this point forward. Those numbers were based partly on the luck of getting two goat level players at the same time and partly based on advantages the Lakers had in the marketplace which don't exist anymore.

It's extremely telling to me that we just won a ring with Lebron and AD and in your view Lebron and AD are below the level of what the Lakers deserve. With that view, to me, you are just sitting yourself up to be disappointed. But that's your business. Fantasize away if you choose
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:11 am    Post subject:

cencio_999 wrote:
Was it worth it?
Yes

Would I rather stick with Julius, DeAngelo and BI, watching them growing and eventually becoming All Stars while having deeper and deeper playoff runs as lakers from the draft to maybe a shot to the finals?
Absolutely.


Also consider, that, so far, those three guys have become one time all stars because they were allowed to be the top person on a bad team. I'm not sure if you keep them all on the Lakers how many of them ever become all stars.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:35 am    Post subject:

I think so. But another ring would upgrade the THINK SO to KNOW SO. Haters say it was Mickey Mouse, that's why you want one more to shut them up.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:38 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
cencio_999 wrote:
Was it worth it?
Yes

Would I rather stick with Julius, DeAngelo and BI, watching them growing and eventually becoming All Stars while having deeper and deeper playoff runs as lakers from the draft to maybe a shot to the finals?
Absolutely.


Also consider, that, so far, those three guys have become one time all stars because they were allowed to be the top person on a bad team. I'm not sure if you keep them all on the Lakers how many of them ever become all stars.


They would go through trials and tribulations. We would love them. They would be this generations Lake Show. Eventually, some stud like Shaq will need to come, and the pieces will start to get traded anyway. We just preemptively did it and got a chip out of it too.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:54 pm    Post subject:

I think Jules, BI, DLO became the players they became b/c they were allowed to be "the man" on the team and have high usage, etc. No way they develop the same way together as who would be subservient in these situations?
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