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C-BUS LAKERFAN
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:20 am    Post subject:

I've seen 2 UFO's. Both were cool experiences. No idea if they were alien or not. I've always kinda assumed they were US military. No idea why, just the feeling I got from seeing them.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:00 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Halflife wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Halflife wrote:
So out of the 144 sightings the government could only explain 1. Most knew the report would contain little info. However, them not ruling out alien life is a huge step.

We can no longer assume we are alone.


It's a huge leap of unsupportable logic to go from not ruling out the possibility of alien visitation to it must therefor exist.

They said they can’t rule it out.
Aliens are either way behind us or way ahead of us. The fact that we can’t do with our ships what they did with there’s probably means they are way ahead of us. It’s exciting.


Alien ships (UFOs) a probability. Alien life highly likely.


As a student, teacher and practitioner of organized religion from the Christian perspective, I do not find the idea of life outside of the planet earth incompatible with my beliefs. Once I accept that God created me, I can accept that God created things that are not me.

Where I have questions about UFOs:

1) if beings/civilizations are advanced to the point that they can generate or manipulate the incredible amount of energy necessary for interstellar travel, why wouldn't they just conquer/enslave/dominate humanity? (The Prime Directive is a Star Trek creation, but not a realistic goal). Whenever humans with superior technology have encountered those with lesser technology, they've immediately used technology to their political, economic & social advantage.

2) Unless humankind is some sort of lab experiment, why would beings with superior technology hide from us? There's more to be gained by cooperating with & cultivating us.

So that is why I am not completely sold that UFOs are alien to Earth, and more inclined to believe that they are secret (not always American) military technologies.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:46 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Halflife wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Halflife wrote:
So out of the 144 sightings the government could only explain 1. Most knew the report would contain little info. However, them not ruling out alien life is a huge step.

We can no longer assume we are alone.


It's a huge leap of unsupportable logic to go from not ruling out the possibility of alien visitation to it must therefor exist.

They said they can’t rule it out.
Aliens are either way behind us or way ahead of us. The fact that we can’t do with our ships what they did with there’s probably means they are way ahead of us. It’s exciting.


Alien ships (UFOs) a probability. Alien life highly likely.


As a student, teacher and practitioner of organized religion from the Christian perspective, I do not find the idea of life outside of the planet earth incompatible with my beliefs. Once I accept that God created me, I can accept that God created things that are not me.

Where I have questions about UFOs:

1) if beings/civilizations are advanced to the point that they can generate or manipulate the incredible amount of energy necessary for interstellar travel, why wouldn't they just conquer/enslave/dominate humanity? (The Prime Directive is a Star Trek creation, but not a realistic goal). Whenever humans with superior technology have encountered those with lesser technology, they've immediately used technology to their political, economic & social advantage.

2) Unless humankind is some sort of lab experiment, why would beings with superior technology hide from us? There's more to be gained by cooperating with & cultivating us.

So that is why I am not completely sold that UFOs are alien to Earth, and more inclined to believe that they are secret (not always American) military technologies.

Dont most religions say god created you in his image? IF these ships are occupied by aliens that would mean they are way more advanced than us. Which makes them superior.

Also good books (bibles etc) dont acknowledge the possibility of aliens/alternative worlds. However they do acknowledge the impossibility of an ark.

Do the books acknowledge the existence of dinosaurs? Age of the planet?

Aliens would suggest we arent even the first intelligent beings.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:34 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Halflife wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Halflife wrote:
So out of the 144 sightings the government could only explain 1. Most knew the report would contain little info. However, them not ruling out alien life is a huge step.

We can no longer assume we are alone.


It's a huge leap of unsupportable logic to go from not ruling out the possibility of alien visitation to it must therefor exist.

They said they can’t rule it out.
Aliens are either way behind us or way ahead of us. The fact that we can’t do with our ships what they did with there’s probably means they are way ahead of us. It’s exciting.


Alien ships (UFOs) a probability. Alien life highly likely.


As a student, teacher and practitioner of organized religion from the Christian perspective, I do not find the idea of life outside of the planet earth incompatible with my beliefs. Once I accept that God created me, I can accept that God created things that are not me.

Where I have questions about UFOs:

1) if beings/civilizations are advanced to the point that they can generate or manipulate the incredible amount of energy necessary for interstellar travel, why wouldn't they just conquer/enslave/dominate humanity? (The Prime Directive is a Star Trek creation, but not a realistic goal). Whenever humans with superior technology have encountered those with lesser technology, they've immediately used technology to their political, economic & social advantage.

Let's implant some what if's.

Evaluation. You're basing your suppositions on humans. What if some species have evolved to a point of not trying to dominate? What if there's been a Rodney King moment in time?


2) Unless humankind is some sort of lab experiment, why would beings with superior technology hide from us? There's more to be gained by cooperating with & cultivating us.

What if they don't think we're ready to join a peaceful existence. Don't think we're ready for cultivation. What if they think we're like our science fiction movies, afraid of the unknown, shoot first, ask questions later. What if they feel we're a danger to a settled, peaceful society, think we may upset the applecart.

So that is why I am not completely sold that UFOs are alien to Earth, and more inclined to believe that they are secret (not always American) military technologies.

Area 51

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Last edited by jodeke on Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:34 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Halflife wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Halflife wrote:
So out of the 144 sightings the government could only explain 1. Most knew the report would contain little info. However, them not ruling out alien life is a huge step.

We can no longer assume we are alone.


It's a huge leap of unsupportable logic to go from not ruling out the possibility of alien visitation to it must therefor exist.

They said they can’t rule it out.
Aliens are either way behind us or way ahead of us. The fact that we can’t do with our ships what they did with there’s probably means they are way ahead of us. It’s exciting.


Alien ships (UFOs) a probability. Alien life highly likely.


As a student, teacher and practitioner of organized religion from the Christian perspective, I do not find the idea of life outside of the planet earth incompatible with my beliefs. Once I accept that God created me, I can accept that God created things that are not me.

Where I have questions about UFOs:

1) if beings/civilizations are advanced to the point that they can generate or manipulate the incredible amount of energy necessary for interstellar travel, why wouldn't they just conquer/enslave/dominate humanity? (The Prime Directive is a Star Trek creation, but not a realistic goal). Whenever humans with superior technology have encountered those with lesser technology, they've immediately used technology to their political, economic & social advantage.

2) Unless humankind is some sort of lab experiment, why would beings with superior technology hide from us? There's more to be gained by cooperating with & cultivating us.

So that is why I am not completely sold that UFOs are alien to Earth, and more inclined to believe that they are secret (not always American) military technologies.


Dont most religions say god created you in his image? IF these ships are occupied by aliens that would mean they are way more advanced than us. Which makes them superior.

Also good books (bibles etc) dont acknowledge the possibility of aliens/alternative worlds. However they do acknowledge the impossibility of an ark.

Do the books acknowledge the existence of dinosaurs? Age of the planet?

Aliens would suggest we arent even the first intelligent beings.


"Dont most religions say god created you in his image?"

I don't know about 'most' religions, but in Christianity, "image" means in God's moral, spiritual & intellectual nature. God does not have a "physical" form for us to mirror.

"Also good books (bibles etc) dont acknowledge the possibility of aliens/alternative worlds."

That depends on the particular book that you read. The "ancient astronaut theorists" posit that there are dozens of references to aliens in the Bible. Hindu texts, the Quran, Mormon texts and other books might do so, as well.

The Urantia Book is ALL about alternative worlds.
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Last edited by Dr. Laker on Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:38 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:36 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Halflife wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Halflife wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Halflife wrote:
So out of the 144 sightings the government could only explain 1. Most knew the report would contain little info. However, them not ruling out alien life is a huge step.

We can no longer assume we are alone.


It's a huge leap of unsupportable logic to go from not ruling out the possibility of alien visitation to it must therefor exist.

They said they can’t rule it out.
Aliens are either way behind us or way ahead of us. The fact that we can’t do with our ships what they did with there’s probably means they are way ahead of us. It’s exciting.


Alien ships (UFOs) a probability. Alien life highly likely.


As a student, teacher and practitioner of organized religion from the Christian perspective, I do not find the idea of life outside of the planet earth incompatible with my beliefs. Once I accept that God created me, I can accept that God created things that are not me.

Where I have questions about UFOs:

1) if beings/civilizations are advanced to the point that they can generate or manipulate the incredible amount of energy necessary for interstellar travel, why wouldn't they just conquer/enslave/dominate humanity? (The Prime Directive is a Star Trek creation, but not a realistic goal). Whenever humans with superior technology have encountered those with lesser technology, they've immediately used technology to their political, economic & social advantage.

2) Unless humankind is some sort of lab experiment, why would beings with superior technology hide from us? There's more to be gained by cooperating with & cultivating us.

So that is why I am not completely sold that UFOs are alien to Earth, and more inclined to believe that they are secret (not always American) military technologies.


Dont most religions say god created you in his image? IF these ships are occupied by aliens that would mean they are way more advanced than us. Which makes them superior.

Also good books (bibles etc) dont acknowledge the possibility of aliens/alternative worlds. However they do acknowledge the impossibility of an ark.

Do the books acknowledge the existence of dinosaurs? Age of the planet?

Aliens would suggest we arent even the first intelligent beings.


"Dont most religions say god created you in his image?"

I don't know about 'most' religions, but in Christianity, "image" means in God's moral, spiritual & intellectual nature. God does not have a "physical" form for us to mirror.

"Also good books (bibles etc) dont acknowledge the possibility of aliens/alternative worlds."

That depends on the particular book that you read. The "ancient astronaut theorists" posit that there are dozens of references to aliens in the Bible. Hindu texts, the Quran, Mormon texts and other books might do so, as well.
The Urantia Book is ALL about alternative worlds.
interesting.i did not know. Do you believe in the ark as depicted? since we are talking "ships"
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:59 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
That's a false dichotomy --- er, trichotomy (and you can't say there are one of two possible conclusions and then give us three conclusions).


Lol, yes... three options. Name a fourth.thats not encompassed by the first 3?


Principally your third option is a pretty big swing & miss on what I assume you were trying to describe as an "other" category. (This is one of the problems with false dichotomies -- er, in your case, trichotomies -- that you have to succinctly lay out all the possibilities). I mainly have a problem with your use of "made up" and "tricked."

"Made up" doesn't begin to describe the multitude of effects going on here, and each & every instance potentially could have its own story of what happened.

"Tricked" I think also goes too far in the above regard. But in addition, you imply that they were misled into the wrong conclusion. That didn't happen -- the report never mentions alien craft, or anything like that. Some things they could categorize. Other things they couldn't. That's as far as their report went.

But if you think about it, that's ALWAYS going to happen. Evidence runs the gamut from totally clear and unambiguous to totally unclear and ambiguous. No matter how good our technology is, there will ALWAYS be things that we don't get a clear look at. That just means, "we can't tell what that is," not "that is some technology beyond our understanding."

When something is clear and unambiguous, it has always turned out to have a mundane explanation. When it's not, it probably still has a mundane explanation, but we can't discern it from what we have. You have to read between a lot of lines to think it's saying something else.

And in fact, the fact that the alien technology always seems to exist right at the edge of our ability to detect it -- so they stay in the "we can't tell what it is" zone -- despite our cameras and other technologies getting better all the time is itself evidence that this is a cultural and psychological phenomenon.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:03 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Halflife wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Halflife wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Halflife wrote:
So out of the 144 sightings the government could only explain 1. Most knew the report would contain little info. However, them not ruling out alien life is a huge step.

We can no longer assume we are alone.


It's a huge leap of unsupportable logic to go from not ruling out the possibility of alien visitation to it must therefor exist.

They said they can’t rule it out.
Aliens are either way behind us or way ahead of us. The fact that we can’t do with our ships what they did with there’s probably means they are way ahead of us. It’s exciting.


Alien ships (UFOs) a probability. Alien life highly likely.


As a student, teacher and practitioner of organized religion from the Christian perspective, I do not find the idea of life outside of the planet earth incompatible with my beliefs. Once I accept that God created me, I can accept that God created things that are not me.

Where I have questions about UFOs:

1) if beings/civilizations are advanced to the point that they can generate or manipulate the incredible amount of energy necessary for interstellar travel, why wouldn't they just conquer/enslave/dominate humanity? (The Prime Directive is a Star Trek creation, but not a realistic goal). Whenever humans with superior technology have encountered those with lesser technology, they've immediately used technology to their political, economic & social advantage.

2) Unless humankind is some sort of lab experiment, why would beings with superior technology hide from us? There's more to be gained by cooperating with & cultivating us.

So that is why I am not completely sold that UFOs are alien to Earth, and more inclined to believe that they are secret (not always American) military technologies.


Dont most religions say god created you in his image? IF these ships are occupied by aliens that would mean they are way more advanced than us. Which makes them superior.

Also good books (bibles etc) dont acknowledge the possibility of aliens/alternative worlds. However they do acknowledge the impossibility of an ark.

Do the books acknowledge the existence of dinosaurs? Age of the planet?

Aliens would suggest we arent even the first intelligent beings.


"Dont most religions say god created you in his image?"

I don't know about 'most' religions, but in Christianity, "image" means in God's moral, spiritual & intellectual nature. God does not have a "physical" form for us to mirror.

"Also good books (bibles etc) dont acknowledge the possibility of aliens/alternative worlds."

That depends on the particular book that you read. The "ancient astronaut theorists" posit that there are dozens of references to aliens in the Bible. Hindu texts, the Quran, Mormon texts and other books might do so, as well.
The Urantia Book is ALL about alternative worlds.
interesting.i did not know. Do you believe in the ark as depicted? since we are talking "ships"


The Bible is a book of faith, not history, initially written in the Bronze age, so concepts were expressed in terminology that people could understand 3,500 - 5,000 years ago. So, broadly, I believe that there was an extinction-level event that God provided a technology for humanity to use to overcome it. Whether it was a football-field sized wooden basket or an ancient computerized DNA collection kit, I don't know.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:34 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Halflife wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Halflife wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Halflife wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Halflife wrote:
So out of the 144 sightings the government could only explain 1. Most knew the report would contain little info. However, them not ruling out alien life is a huge step.

We can no longer assume we are alone.


It's a huge leap of unsupportable logic to go from not ruling out the possibility of alien visitation to it must therefor exist.

They said they can’t rule it out.
Aliens are either way behind us or way ahead of us. The fact that we can’t do with our ships what they did with there’s probably means they are way ahead of us. It’s exciting.


Alien ships (UFOs) a probability. Alien life highly likely.


As a student, teacher and practitioner of organized religion from the Christian perspective, I do not find the idea of life outside of the planet earth incompatible with my beliefs. Once I accept that God created me, I can accept that God created things that are not me.

Where I have questions about UFOs:

1) if beings/civilizations are advanced to the point that they can generate or manipulate the incredible amount of energy necessary for interstellar travel, why wouldn't they just conquer/enslave/dominate humanity? (The Prime Directive is a Star Trek creation, but not a realistic goal). Whenever humans with superior technology have encountered those with lesser technology, they've immediately used technology to their political, economic & social advantage.

2) Unless humankind is some sort of lab experiment, why would beings with superior technology hide from us? There's more to be gained by cooperating with & cultivating us.

So that is why I am not completely sold that UFOs are alien to Earth, and more inclined to believe that they are secret (not always American) military technologies.


Dont most religions say god created you in his image? IF these ships are occupied by aliens that would mean they are way more advanced than us. Which makes them superior.

Also good books (bibles etc) dont acknowledge the possibility of aliens/alternative worlds. However they do acknowledge the impossibility of an ark.

Do the books acknowledge the existence of dinosaurs? Age of the planet?

Aliens would suggest we arent even the first intelligent beings.


"Dont most religions say god created you in his image?"

I don't know about 'most' religions, but in Christianity, "image" means in God's moral, spiritual & intellectual nature. God does not have a "physical" form for us to mirror.

"Also good books (bibles etc) dont acknowledge the possibility of aliens/alternative worlds."

That depends on the particular book that you read. The "ancient astronaut theorists" posit that there are dozens of references to aliens in the Bible. Hindu texts, the Quran, Mormon texts and other books might do so, as well.
The Urantia Book is ALL about alternative worlds.
interesting.i did not know. Do you believe in the ark as depicted? since we are talking "ships"


The Bible is a book of faith, not history, initially written in the Bronze age, so concepts were expressed in terminology that people could understand 3,500 - 5,000 years ago. So, broadly, I believe that there was an extinction-level event that God provided a technology for humanity to use to overcome it. Whether it was a football-field sized wooden basket or an ancient computerized DNA collection kit, I don't know.

fortunately for believers and non believers. Know one knows. I personally find it more likely that aliens exist and that there never was a beginning. Space was just always here. I understand concept of big bang but for me some things just arent there to be figured out.

In regards to religions, who's right? bible? koran? Only one can be if god is considered a tangible thing. If hes not then religions are just for community and structure for those who need something. Is the old testament or new the ideology? Can someone follow only part of the book?

If we exist on this tiny dirt ball floating around in space, I personally find it crazy to think with as endless as space is, multi-universes and all that we are the only intelligent life.

I do think for a large population of religious believers that if we were to find superior creatures out there that they would have to rethink their faiths.

You are clearly more educated on the teachings and i understand finding purpose outside of the here and now is important and religions offer that. Discovering aliens turns us into just organisms that last for a blink of an eye on a dirty, dying floating rock. We are already that, aliens would just reinforce how small we are in the big picture.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:07 pm    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
That's a false dichotomy --- er, trichotomy (and you can't say there are one of two possible conclusions and then give us three conclusions).


Lol, yes... three options. Name a fourth.thats not encompassed by the first 3?


Principally your third option is a pretty big swing & miss on what I assume you were trying to describe as an "other" category. (This is one of the problems with false dichotomies -- er, in your case, trichotomies -- that you have to succinctly lay out all the possibilities). I mainly have a problem with your use of "made up" and "tricked."

"Made up" doesn't begin to describe the multitude of effects going on here, and each & every instance potentially could have its own story of what happened.

"Tricked" I think also goes too far in the above regard. But in addition, you imply that they were misled into the wrong conclusion. That didn't happen -- the report never mentions alien craft, or anything like that. Some things they could categorize. Other things they couldn't. That's as far as their report went.

But if you think about it, that's ALWAYS going to happen. Evidence runs the gamut from totally clear and unambiguous to totally unclear and ambiguous. No matter how good our technology is, there will ALWAYS be things that we don't get a clear look at. That just means, "we can't tell what that is," not "that is some technology beyond our understanding."

When something is clear and unambiguous, it has always turned out to have a mundane explanation. When it's not, it probably still has a mundane explanation, but we can't discern it from what we have. You have to read between a lot of lines to think it's saying something else.

And in fact, the fact that the alien technology always seems to exist right at the edge of our ability to detect it -- so they stay in the "we can't tell what it is" zone -- despite our cameras and other technologies getting better all the time is itself evidence that this is a cultural and psychological phenomenon.


Yea, what I meant by option 3 ("other") is that we're just wrong about we are seeing. Call it an illusion, people tampering with or failing to maintain tracking/recording devices (cameras, radar, etc.) leading to false readings or images, purposeful deception by an adversary, etc. However, each of these would seem less likely to me than the other two options based on the amount of objective evidence, eye witness evidence from credible sources unlikely to make up claims and the extensive efforts by the US, if not the world at large, at investigating these incidents to come up with some sort of explanation, incentivized, if not even biased toward, finding an explanation other than aliens or secret earthly technological advances.

That being said, I will add a 4th option (if not already encompassed by option 2) - the government is just lying to us about existing technology and doesn't want to admit what it has, but was forced to reveal its analysis by Biden and chose to lie.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:30 pm    Post subject:

It all comes down to Occam's Razor.

Of the 3 scenarios presented, the most likely is the one that is not exceptionally unlikely. And that is that something relatively unexceptional is occurring and we simply being being deceived by a combination of optical illusions and technical glitches.

As been said, the leap from, "we don't understand what we are seeing" to "there must be some fantastical explanation for it" is astronomical and therefore unreasonable.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:32 pm    Post subject:

The problem is that I don't think we have a true grasp on what is fantastical or exceptional.

2,000 years ago the concept of a cell phone, a car, a computer or an airplane would seem fantastical. However, that was just because our perception of science and reality was naive. In 1943, the idea of an atomic bomb was fantastical. 2 years later, it was reality and a paradigm shift that would change the world for the next 50 years.

When those things came into existence, they were no more fantastical than they were the day before or 2,000 years earlier. They were only fantastical to us, our limited imagination and our limited understanding of science.

I think its a foregone logical conclusion that there is life outside of our planet in the universe. It is also a foregone logical conclusion that there is technology out there already invented on this planet that the public is not aware of and would likely be shocked to know exists. The only questions, in respect to both, are (a) whether such "aliens" are capable of, and have traveled to, our planet and (b) just how advanced such technology is.

The fact that our government (making no mention of other governments and a lot of respectable scientists in the private sector) has researched these things and can't reasonably explain them away - including an explanation that it somehow could have errored in its perception or been, intentionally or inadvertently, tricked/misled - makes the other explanations of advanced or alien technology that much more possible.

Personally, I would agree that option C is the most likely option only because there is so much and so many scenarios option C encompasses. However, options A and B are legitimate options none-the-less.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:42 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
The problem is that I don't think we have a true grasp on what is fantastical or exceptional.

2,000 years ago the concept of a cell phone, a car, a computer or an airplane would seem fantastical. However, that was just because our perception of science and reality was naive. In 1943, the idea of an atomic bomb was fantastical. 2 years later, it was reality and a paradigm shift that would change the world for the next 50 years.

When those things came into existence, they were no more fantastical than they were the day before or 2,000 years earlier. They were only fantastical to us, our limited imagination and our limited understanding of science.

I think its a foregone logical conclusion that there is life outside of our planet in the universe. It is also a foregone logical conclusion that there is technology out there already invented on this planet that the public is not aware of and would likely be shocked to know exists. The only questions, in respect to both, are (a) whether such "aliens" are capable of, and have traveled to, our planet and (b) just how advanced such technology is.

The fact that our government (making no mention of other governments and a lot of respectable scientists in the private sector) has researched these things and can't reasonably explain them away - including an explanation that it somehow could have errored in its perception or been, intentionally or inadvertently, tricked/misled - makes the other explanations of advanced or alien technology that much more possible.

Personally, I would agree that option C is the most likely option only because there is so much and so many scenarios option C encompasses. However, options A and B are legitimate options none-the-less.


It still comes back to the Razor. It's not simply a question of what we may grasp as being fantastical. It is the accumulation of assumptions one has to make to conclude that there is some unknown technology that defies everything we know about physics and design in the possession of a unidentifiable organization and is somehow being kept as one of the greatest secrets ever.

And sure. It is certainly possible that there is advanced life somewhere out there in that expansive universe we are just beginning to be able to attempt to explore. But then to expand from that that they somehow, in all of that expanse, have ended up here and for some reason have decided to keep themselves intensely illusive while still being exposed to glimpses and once again we are in the realm of the Razor.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:43 pm    Post subject:

I’ve always wondered why ufo’s really became a thing after the advent of science fiction stories about them and why they all looked like the movie ones. At least the recent stuff moves a little from that.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:03 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
I’ve always wondered why ufo’s really became a thing after the advent of science fiction stories about them and why they all looked like the movie ones. At least the recent stuff moves a little from that.


There's that and then the lights in sky scenario, which always struck me as odd. If aliens had the technology to get here, but didn't want to be seen, why would they light up the sky? They certainly wouldn't need lights for navigation etc.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:13 pm    Post subject:

For me it’s about how vast it is out there. As random as we are even if it’s 1 in 10 trillion that would probably equate to multiple intelligent life forms.

The fact that a hippopotamus is closer to a whale than a cow makes anything possible.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:26 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
For me it’s about how vast it is out there. As random as we are even if it’s 1 in 10 trillion that would probably equate to multiple intelligent life forms.

The fact that a hippopotamus is closer to a whale than a cow makes anything possible.


I share the opinion that given the right raw materials and enough time, life is pretty much inevitable. But one mistake that many people make is assuming that evolution is teleological.....that it gets "more advanced" and that intelligence is an eventual result. More likely, while the universe is likely teeming with life, there's no reason to think it's teeming with intelligent life. Hell, here on Earth there were only single-celled organisms for a billion years or so. We could find that there's nothing but blue-green algae and slime molds out there.

And while people in this thread are also applying the law of large numbers (the universe is big enough that even an extremely unlikely probability is likely to have occurred) it doesn't really rescue the argument. Part of the reason why has to do with one of the other arguments made here recently -- essentially, "100 years ago we didn't understand X. Therefore it stands to reason that today we can't understand Y." Problem number 1 is that isn't an argument FOR the existence of Y. It's just re-framing pure speculation differently, and there's no reason to apply that line of thinking to anything we're seeing today. Second, we're not ignorant with regard to the way the universe works. We DO know stuff. The standard model of physics and quantum mechanics are phenomenally successful. We use them to predict the existence of new fundamental particles, we go look for them, and boom, we find them. We use it to predict the existence of gravity waives, we figure out how to look for them, and boom, we find them.

While there may be yet-undiscovered laws of physics, what we find tends to refine what we already understand -- not overthrow it. Relativity didn't overthrow Newtonian physics -- applies didn't start falling up. It merely refined it. At this point in the game, we know enough about how things work, and have validated our understanding through many verified predictions and empirical results, that we're not likely to overturn what we already understand very well. The atomic theory of matter won't be overturned. The germ theory of disease won't be overturned. QM won't be overturned. Relativity won't be overturned. And our understanding of the time & energy requirements for interstellar travel won't be overturned either. We know stuff.

On the other side of it, we have a phenomenon that can ENTIRELY be explained by the known parameters of culture and human psychology. In addition to that, it's a phenomenon that behaves exactly as it would if it WERE a cultural and psychological phenomenon. And what people are reporting is exactly what we would expect if there was nothing out there. If nothing was out there, there would STILL be stuff -- that would have a mundane explanation if we got a good look at it -- that we don't get a good look at, and therefore we can't tell what it is. It wouldn't be that the skies would be empty and we wouldn't have any fuzzy photos if nothing was out there. It'd be exactly what we're seeing if nothing was out there.

We have NO reason to reject the null hypothesis based on what we have. To the contrary, what we have only reinforces the null hypothesis. And the likelihood of the alternative hypothesis is vanishingly, vanishingly small. The odds of the alternate hypothesis aren't made any better by the size of the universe, or by the fact that we used to know less than what we know now.

And as I said, the rest fits neatly within the known parameters of human psychology. And humans are mostly really sloppy thinkers.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:36 am    Post subject:

Here's a pretty good podcast going over the report. It includes a SETI astronomer, a retired Air Force pilot, and a science writer.

LINK
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:58 am    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
Halflife wrote:
For me it’s about how vast it is out there. As random as we are even if it’s 1 in 10 trillion that would probably equate to multiple intelligent life forms.

The fact that a hippopotamus is closer to a whale than a cow makes anything possible.


I share the opinion that given the right raw materials and enough time, life is pretty much inevitable. But one mistake that many people make is assuming that evolution is teleological.....that it gets "more advanced" and that intelligence is an eventual result. More likely, while the universe is likely teeming with life, there's no reason to think it's teeming with intelligent life. Hell, here on Earth there were only single-celled organisms for a billion years or so. We could find that there's nothing but blue-green algae and slime molds out there.

And while people in this thread are also applying the law of large numbers (the universe is big enough that even an extremely unlikely probability is likely to have occurred) it doesn't really rescue the argument. Part of the reason why has to do with one of the other arguments made here recently -- essentially, "100 years ago we didn't understand X. Therefore it stands to reason that today we can't understand Y." Problem number 1 is that isn't an argument FOR the existence of Y. It's just re-framing pure speculation differently, and there's no reason to apply that line of thinking to anything we're seeing today. Second, we're not ignorant with regard to the way the universe works. We DO know stuff. The standard model of physics and quantum mechanics are phenomenally successful. We use them to predict the existence of new fundamental particles, we go look for them, and boom, we find them. We use it to predict the existence of gravity waives, we figure out how to look for them, and boom, we find them.

While there may be yet-undiscovered laws of physics, what we find tends to refine what we already understand -- not overthrow it. Relativity didn't overthrow Newtonian physics -- applies didn't start falling up. It merely refined it. At this point in the game, we know enough about how things work, and have validated our understanding through many verified predictions and empirical results, that we're not likely to overturn what we already understand very well. The atomic theory of matter won't be overturned. The germ theory of disease won't be overturned. QM won't be overturned. Relativity won't be overturned. And our understanding of the time & energy requirements for interstellar travel won't be overturned either. We know stuff.

On the other side of it, we have a phenomenon that can ENTIRELY be explained by the known parameters of culture and human psychology. In addition to that, it's a phenomenon that behaves exactly as it would if it WERE a cultural and psychological phenomenon. And what people are reporting is exactly what we would expect if there was nothing out there. If nothing was out there, there would STILL be stuff -- that would have a mundane explanation if we got a good look at it -- that we don't get a good look at, and therefore we can't tell what it is. It wouldn't be that the skies would be empty and we wouldn't have any fuzzy photos if nothing was out there. It'd be exactly what we're seeing if nothing was out there.

We have NO reason to reject the null hypothesis based on what we have. To the contrary, what we have only reinforces the null hypothesis. And the likelihood of the alternative hypothesis is vanishingly, vanishingly small. The odds of the alternate hypothesis aren't made any better by the size of the universe, or by the fact that we used to know less than what we know now.

And as I said, the rest fits neatly within the known parameters of human psychology. And humans are mostly really sloppy thinkers.


tldr
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
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Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:32 am    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
Halflife wrote:
For me it’s about how vast it is out there. As random as we are even if it’s 1 in 10 trillion that would probably equate to multiple intelligent life forms.

The fact that a hippopotamus is closer to a whale than a cow makes anything possible.


I share the opinion that given the right raw materials and enough time, life is pretty much inevitable. But one mistake that many people make is assuming that evolution is teleological.....that it gets "more advanced" and that intelligence is an eventual result. More likely, while the universe is likely teeming with life, there's no reason to think it's teeming with intelligent life. Hell, here on Earth there were only single-celled organisms for a billion years or so. We could find that there's nothing but blue-green algae and slime molds out there.

And while people in this thread are also applying the law of large numbers (the universe is big enough that even an extremely unlikely probability is likely to have occurred) it doesn't really rescue the argument. Part of the reason why has to do with one of the other arguments made here recently -- essentially, "100 years ago we didn't understand X. Therefore it stands to reason that today we can't understand Y." Problem number 1 is that isn't an argument FOR the existence of Y. It's just re-framing pure speculation differently, and there's no reason to apply that line of thinking to anything we're seeing today. Second, we're not ignorant with regard to the way the universe works. We DO know stuff. The standard model of physics and quantum mechanics are phenomenally successful. We use them to predict the existence of new fundamental particles, we go look for them, and boom, we find them. We use it to predict the existence of gravity waives, we figure out how to look for them, and boom, we find them.

While there may be yet-undiscovered laws of physics, what we find tends to refine what we already understand -- not overthrow it. Relativity didn't overthrow Newtonian physics -- applies didn't start falling up. It merely refined it. At this point in the game, we know enough about how things work, and have validated our understanding through many verified predictions and empirical results, that we're not likely to overturn what we already understand very well. The atomic theory of matter won't be overturned. The germ theory of disease won't be overturned. QM won't be overturned. Relativity won't be overturned. And our understanding of the time & energy requirements for interstellar travel won't be overturned either. We know stuff.

On the other side of it, we have a phenomenon that can ENTIRELY be explained by the known parameters of culture and human psychology. In addition to that, it's a phenomenon that behaves exactly as it would if it WERE a cultural and psychological phenomenon. And what people are reporting is exactly what we would expect if there was nothing out there. If nothing was out there, there would STILL be stuff -- that would have a mundane explanation if we got a good look at it -- that we don't get a good look at, and therefore we can't tell what it is. It wouldn't be that the skies would be empty and we wouldn't have any fuzzy photos if nothing was out there. It'd be exactly what we're seeing if nothing was out there.

We have NO reason to reject the null hypothesis based on what we have. To the contrary, what we have only reinforces the null hypothesis. And the likelihood of the alternative hypothesis is vanishingly, vanishingly small. The odds of the alternate hypothesis aren't made any better by the size of the universe, or by the fact that we used to know less than what we know now.

And as I said, the rest fits neatly within the known parameters of human psychology. And humans are mostly really sloppy thinkers.


Damn Larry wut da hell u talkin bout!?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:25 am    Post subject:

These are my favorite Tesla quotes.

"The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence"

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration"

and another for good measure.

"I do not think you can name many great inventions that have been made by married men"
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:42 am    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
Halflife wrote:
For me it’s about how vast it is out there. As random as we are even if it’s 1 in 10 trillion that would probably equate to multiple intelligent life forms.

The fact that a hippopotamus is closer to a whale than a cow makes anything possible.


I share the opinion that given the right raw materials and enough time, life is pretty much inevitable. But one mistake that many people make is assuming that evolution is teleological.....that it gets "more advanced" and that intelligence is an eventual result. More likely, while the universe is likely teeming with life, there's no reason to think it's teeming with intelligent life. Hell, here on Earth there were only single-celled organisms for a billion years or so. We could find that there's nothing but blue-green algae and slime molds out there.

And while people in this thread are also applying the law of large numbers (the universe is big enough that even an extremely unlikely probability is likely to have occurred) it doesn't really rescue the argument. Part of the reason why has to do with one of the other arguments made here recently -- essentially, "100 years ago we didn't understand X. Therefore it stands to reason that today we can't understand Y." Problem number 1 is that isn't an argument FOR the existence of Y. It's just re-framing pure speculation differently, and there's no reason to apply that line of thinking to anything we're seeing today. Second, we're not ignorant with regard to the way the universe works. We DO know stuff. The standard model of physics and quantum mechanics are phenomenally successful. We use them to predict the existence of new fundamental particles, we go look for them, and boom, we find them. We use it to predict the existence of gravity waives, we figure out how to look for them, and boom, we find them.

While there may be yet-undiscovered laws of physics, what we find tends to refine what we already understand -- not overthrow it. Relativity didn't overthrow Newtonian physics -- applies didn't start falling up. It merely refined it. At this point in the game, we know enough about how things work, and have validated our understanding through many verified predictions and empirical results, that we're not likely to overturn what we already understand very well. The atomic theory of matter won't be overturned. The germ theory of disease won't be overturned. QM won't be overturned. Relativity won't be overturned. And our understanding of the time & energy requirements for interstellar travel won't be overturned either. We know stuff.

On the other side of it, we have a phenomenon that can ENTIRELY be explained by the known parameters of culture and human psychology. In addition to that, it's a phenomenon that behaves exactly as it would if it WERE a cultural and psychological phenomenon. And what people are reporting is exactly what we would expect if there was nothing out there. If nothing was out there, there would STILL be stuff -- that would have a mundane explanation if we got a good look at it -- that we don't get a good look at, and therefore we can't tell what it is. It wouldn't be that the skies would be empty and we wouldn't have any fuzzy photos if nothing was out there. It'd be exactly what we're seeing if nothing was out there.

We have NO reason to reject the null hypothesis based on what we have. To the contrary, what we have only reinforces the null hypothesis. And the likelihood of the alternative hypothesis is vanishingly, vanishingly small. The odds of the alternate hypothesis aren't made any better by the size of the universe, or by the fact that we used to know less than what we know now.

And as I said, the rest fits neatly within the known parameters of human psychology. And humans are mostly really sloppy thinkers.

awesome read.

The great thing about science vs. religion is that scientific thinking adapts to changes and at any moment what we thought could ultimately be wrong. religion lays it out and never diverts with zero proof or explanation.

I'll always go back to time and space. Our species in the big picture havent been here that long. I am of the belief without anything more than what we have been taught about time and space that it is far more believable that there are other civilizations out there structured completely different than us but still intelligent than believing we are it.

I also believe because of how aggressive man has been exploring space that our vibrations, radio waves etc may have a farther reach than previously thought which could attract other life forms to us.


We see stars 4000 light years from earth. In the big picture that is nothing. That equates to being in the next room.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:07 pm    Post subject:

I think you should listen to this LINK
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:41 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
I think you should listen to this LINK

lol.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:54 pm    Post subject:

Just be truthful about the Pyramids (real date). The story of Sumeria and the Annunaki.

The more you know.
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