WARRIORS -at- LAKERS - 5/19 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 4:51 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB! Great game especially down the stretch. Huge on defense and huge Bron three at the last minute. So glad we got the win.

I agree that Vogel's decision making is puzzling. I'm going to go with the chess game analogy since we won. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, especially after last year's championship. He must know the score on each of his players. Maybe Davis couldn't take a full game down low at center. Maybe it's too much chemistry issues to play Gasol when you have already given Drum and Trez early minutes. Maybe we play Schro early in order to see if he's got it going with this matchup. Whatever. We won!
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 8:23 pm    Post subject:

Startrout wrote:
Sometimes I think Vogel holds out his best lineup in the first half on purpose. That way the other team can’t make adjustments at half time and they are unprepared for our finishing lineup to end games. It seems to work most of the time.
That might be true

If Vogel went with his closing lineup earlier, Kerr (being an excellent coach) would have a counter to use after halftime forcing Vogel to change again.

Strategy Employment!!
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: WARRIORS -at- LAKERS - 5/19 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings

DancingBarry wrote:
Davis -- -- He might have had one shot within 10 feet of the basket in the first half. He was stripped, so it may not have even counted as an attempt. The rest of it was completely perimeter oriented as he went 2-12 (0-3 from three) for 5 points. Just look at where he plays on the floor when Drummond is out there. It’s frustrating when people are saying he’s playing soft when it’s more of a schematic issue that is causing him to shoot too often from 18+ feet out. So, no coincidence that he’d drop 20 points in the second half once we freed him up to work a little closer in as the C and with much less traffic. Want him getting set up for lobs or by others for dunks? Want him grabbing big offensive boards? Want him working the post? Put him at the C or give him a floor spacing C to play with. Everything was much closer in or at the rim. Then once he got the ball to go through the hoop, he’d finally hit a three, too. The matchup with the Suns, we can try to soften up their middle a bit with Drummond. It will work better than with the Warriors since they aren’t a small ball team. But we need to understand, once it’s softened up, who are closers are. The Stats: He scored 25 points on 10-24 shooting (1-6 from three, 4-4 from the line) to go with 12 boards, 2 assists, 2 steals, 1 block, 3 turnovers and 4 fouls in 42 minutes. He was a +2.
On the Warriors' side, here are some comments:
"There might not be a better defender against Anthony Davis than Green. To be honest there, might not be a better defender period than Green, but he’s specifically gifted to stop Davis. He’s strong enough to not give up ground on post ups, and in actuality, anytime Davis touches it in the post against him is a win for the Warriors. It’s a guaranteed five seconds of trying and failing to back him in, then a contested fade away. Davis is at his most unguardable when he’s on the move, playing off his own screens.
But Green and the Warriors turn him into a straight isolation player and jump shooter, which is the one area of his game that isn’t up his usual all-NBA level.
And when Davis did get involved in the pick-and-roll, Green would morph into multiple bodies and stunt the ball handler before recovering in time to dig down for the pass."

"Davis’ statline doesn’t look bad, with 25 points on 10-of-24 shooting. But most of those came in the second half, after Green held him to just one made field goal in the first.
All that defense got into Davis’s head, as he got T’d up and ended nearly every possession yelling for a foul and chasing down the ref."
https://sfbayca.com/2021/05/19/careless-warriors-give-away-play-in-game-force-win-or-die-against-memphis/

Since opposing teams have noted how the Warriors' contained/limited AD's effectiveness, it will be interesting to see what Vogel does to address this and how other playoff team will utilize this strategy

The caveat is that the Suns' don't have a defender close to Green's skills (Jae Crowder is their top choice). Michael Porter/Joker would be Denver's options, Covington/Powell would be Trailblazers' options, Ibaka/Patterson would be Clippers' options, Cauley-Stein would be Mavs' options, etc.

Wouldn't it be WILD if the Warriors and Lakers met AGAIN in the Conference Finals!!! Can they realistically beat the Jazz (yes), Clippers (yes), and Mavs (Yes) - if they play at the level they played last night (the big question). With Kerr as the HC - they have some moxie from the person calling the shots!
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 9:58 pm    Post subject:

No offense but you’re crazy if you think Warriors can take down Utah and Clippers. I think they will struggle to take more than a game off the Jazz and don’t forget they need to get past Morant and the Grizz first.
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2021 1:49 am    Post subject:

dfchang813 wrote:
No offense but you’re crazy if you think Warriors can take down Utah and Clippers. I think they will struggle to take more than a game off the Jazz and don’t forget they need to get past Morant and the Grizz first.
They will not be favored

With Draymond playing the 5 for most of the game and definitely during crunch time, Gobert will be drawn away from the post. With Donavan Mitchell just coming off an injury, who will guard Curry with Draymond at the top of the key exposing Gobert on the perimeter

Same issue with the Clippers, who is going to guard Draymond and can PatBev guard Curry? Given the large amount of pressure for the Clippers to get pass the first round, how many minutes can Rondo play in playoff games?
Will Kwai and PG show up? Will they wear out Rondo?

Since it is very rare that the top two playoff teams are not favorites to win, its the Lakers and Clippers, somebody must know something - lol
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2021 3:41 am    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
Startrout wrote:
Sometimes I think Vogel holds out his best lineup in the first half on purpose. That way the other team can’t make adjustments at half time and they are unprepared for our finishing lineup to end games. It seems to work most of the time.
That might be true

If Vogel went with his closing lineup earlier, Kerr (being an excellent coach) would have a counter to use after halftime forcing Vogel to change again.

Strategy Employment!!


Well, wouldn't every coach, every organization every analyst have hours upon hours of footage from last year's playoffs run of Vogel's death lineup already? Why is it such a secret that the Lakers might play AD at the 5 with nearly the same personnel as last year viz. Lebron, AC, KCP?
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2021 9:02 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
Startrout wrote:
Sometimes I think Vogel holds out his best lineup in the first half on purpose. That way the other team can’t make adjustments at half time and they are unprepared for our finishing lineup to end games. It seems to work most of the time.
That might be true

If Vogel went with his closing lineup earlier, Kerr (being an excellent coach) would have a counter to use after halftime forcing Vogel to change again.

Strategy Employment!!
Well, wouldn't every coach, every organization every analyst have hours upon hours of footage from last year's playoffs run of Vogel's death lineup already? Why is it such a secret that the Lakers might play AD at the 5 with nearly the same personnel as last year viz. Lebron, AC, KCP?
Agree

However, every good coach has néw schemes and wrinkles to past plays, especially since there are new players on the roster and smart players (ala Rondo) know the past actions by heart

It will always be AD, LBJ and Caruso. Others on the court might be KCP, Matthews, TNT, Kuz, Gasol, Schroeder, Trez, etc depending on the opposing players on the court, who’s available, matchups and other factors
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2021 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: WARRIORS -at- LAKERS - 5/19 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
On the Warriors' side, here are some comments:
"There might not be a better defender against Anthony Davis than Green. To be honest there, might not be a better defender period than Green, but he’s specifically gifted to stop Davis. He’s strong enough to not give up ground on post ups, and in actuality, anytime Davis touches it in the post against him is a win for the Warriors. It’s a guaranteed five seconds of trying and failing to back him in, then a contested fade away. Davis is at his most unguardable when he’s on the move, playing off his own screens.
But Green and the Warriors turn him into a straight isolation player and jump shooter, which is the one area of his game that isn’t up his usual all-NBA level.
And when Davis did get involved in the pick-and-roll, Green would morph into multiple bodies and stunt the ball handler before recovering in time to dig down for the pass."

"Davis’ statline doesn’t look bad, with 25 points on 10-of-24 shooting. But most of those came in the second half, after Green held him to just one made field goal in the first.
All that defense got into Davis’s head, as he got T’d up and ended nearly every possession yelling for a foul and chasing down the ref."
https://sfbayca.com/2021/05/19/careless-warriors-give-away-play-in-game-force-win-or-die-against-memphis/

Since opposing teams have noted how the Warriors' contained/limited AD's effectiveness, it will be interesting to see what Vogel does to address this and how other playoff team will utilize this strategy

The caveat is that the Suns' don't have a defender close to Green's skills (Jae Crowder is their top choice). Michael Porter/Joker would be Denver's options, Covington/Powell would be Trailblazers' options, Ibaka/Patterson would be Clippers' options, Cauley-Stein would be Mavs' options, etc.

Wouldn't it be WILD if the Warriors and Lakers met AGAIN in the Conference Finals!!! Can they realistically beat the Jazz (yes), Clippers (yes), and Mavs (Yes) - if they play at the level they played last night (the big question). With Kerr as the HC - they have some moxie from the person calling the shots!


Green's a great defender, but if you just isolate the numbers from when AD played at the PF and AD played at the C in the last game, it tells the story. It wasn't that suddenly Green stopped defending as well in the second half. AD and his teammates just had a lot more room to work in. Teammates could set him up. He was even closer to the hoop for jumpers. At C he's consistently pushed out to 20- to 26-foot range to try to space the floor for LeBron and Schroder. It's a chain reaction that impacts everyone when the paint is packed, the gaps are plugged more consistently and the ball isn't penetrating the D consistently.
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
Startrout wrote:
Sometimes I think Vogel holds out his best lineup in the first half on purpose. That way the other team can’t make adjustments at half time and they are unprepared for our finishing lineup to end games. It seems to work most of the time.
That might be true

If Vogel went with his closing lineup earlier, Kerr (being an excellent coach) would have a counter to use after halftime forcing Vogel to change again.

Strategy Employment!!


Well, wouldn't every coach, every organization every analyst have hours upon hours of footage from last year's playoffs run of Vogel's death lineup already? Why is it such a secret that the Lakers might play AD at the 5 with nearly the same personnel as last year viz. Lebron, AC, KCP?


The other teams all know our closing lineups and have studied them, but I think it still very effective for the Lakers to bring in our best lineup/s at the end as opponents spend most of the game getting accustomed to our other lineups, then all of the sudden at the end of the game we are like a different team, faster, quicker, better rotations, better defense and offense. It just catches most teams off guard without time to fully adapt. It’s one thing to know something can happen, but another to actually face it at the most critical time of the game.
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2021 9:46 am    Post subject:

Startrout wrote:

<snip>

The other teams all know our closing lineups and have studied them, but I think it still very effective for the Lakers to bring in our best lineup/s at the end as opponents spend most of the game getting accustomed to our other lineups, then all of the sudden at the end of the game we are like a different team, faster, quicker, better rotations, better defense and offense. It just catches most teams off guard without time to fully adapt. It’s one thing to know something can happen, but another to actually face it at the most critical time of the game.


I fully agree. I guess I was nit-picking and you've nailed it: it's not to keep something super-secret still a secret, it's to use it to outscore the other team and by the time they are able to fully adjust, the game's over. (Plus save wear-and-tear on AD). Kinda like how a distance runner paces herself until the finishing sprint.
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2021 2:49 am    Post subject:

Startrout wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
Startrout wrote:
Sometimes I think Vogel holds out his best lineup in the first half on purpose. That way the other team can’t make adjustments at half time and they are unprepared for our finishing lineup to end games. It seems to work most of the time.
That might be true

If Vogel went with his closing lineup earlier, Kerr (being an excellent coach) would have a counter to use after halftime forcing Vogel to change again.

Strategy Employment!!
Well, wouldn't every coach, every organization every analyst have hours upon hours of footage from last year's playoffs run of Vogel's death lineup already? Why is it such a secret that the Lakers might play AD at the 5 with nearly the same personnel as last year viz. Lebron, AC, KCP?
The other teams all know our closing lineups and have studied them, but I think it still very effective for the Lakers to bring in our best lineup/s at the end as opponents spend most of the game getting accustomed to our other lineups, then all of the sudden at the end of the game we are like a different team, faster, quicker, better rotations, better defense and offense. It just catches most teams off guard without time to fully adapt. It’s one thing to know something can happen, but another to actually face it at the most critical time of the game.
That's what the guys said on the set

Wondering if Vogel can design offensive sets similar to when the Lakers were playing Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum together? AD2's low closing percentage at the rim, when plays are desgined for him, night be a deterrent. If AD2 is not getting rebounds (8-10+) and block shots (2+ per game), having Gasol play the 5 might be more effective since he doesn't get many rebounds/block shots but can spread the floor
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2021 8:52 am    Post subject:

In Caruso We Trust.
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