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yinoma2001
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 Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Which is why the championship was absolutely worth it. No guarantees a team wins one. I’m not sure about the Lakers future but neither are you. They could be poor or they could be lucky and grab 2-3 max FAs that work out. |
Considering that they have gotten two max FAs in 22 years, expecting differently for a management group that most in the NBA laugh at is very optimistic. We actually got one max FA in his prime 26 years ago, that is hardly a sustainable plan. |
Yet they got LBJ and traded for AD and won a ring. Maybe not replicable but we know that’s their plan.
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nevitt_smrek
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 9:54 am Post subject: |
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You know, they didnt make the playoffs in LBJ year 1. Guy's getting older, and team was in win now mode. Injuries were part of the risk. Most teams would be thrilled to get a title. The bar is just set to unreasonable levels.
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| Would the Celtics be in the finals if they made the Anthony Davis trade? |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| nevitt_smrek wrote: | | You know, they didnt make the playoffs in LBJ year 1. Guy's getting older, and team was in win now mode. Injuries were part of the risk. Most teams would be thrilled to get a title. The bar is just set to unreasonable levels. |
I don't know whether it's unreasonable or not, but it's a reality that the bar for the Lakers is higher than the bar for other teams. The Raptors are still basking in the afterglow of their title with Kawhi as a rental. The standard for the Lakers is higher.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Would the Celtics be in the finals if they made the Anthony Davis trade? |
It’s about the ring. So ask us that later. So far AD/Lakers 1, Celts 0. May change but too soon to ask. Go Warriors!
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| nevitt_smrek wrote: | | You know, they didnt make the playoffs in LBJ year 1. Guy's getting older, and team was in win now mode. Injuries were part of the risk. Most teams would be thrilled to get a title. The bar is just set to unreasonable levels. |
I was thrilled and I’d accept the one title if that’s what it is. I just hate seeing a team shoot itself in the foot by dumping all their depth and defense and cohesion for a chronic big numbers negative impact guy that literally no one else was or is trying to get on their team. I rolled with what they did last year because it was a proportional, rational move to get some more offense while keeping their deep versatile defense. Which is why that team held together without their big two during the season. And why they were taking it to Phoenix before AD went down (and lbj was hobbled).
I had no problem with them moving on from Schroder if he wasn’t the guy for them, and moves like Nunn and Monk looked like quality shots at getting that other guy who can initiate offense. But then…
Now the truth is they may never have gotten another title. And again, I could live with that watching our guys give it their best and seeing the last days of an all time great. I just hate the own goal.
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lakersboy
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Which is why the championship was absolutely worth it. No guarantees a team wins one. I’m not sure about the Lakers future but neither are you. They could be poor or they could be lucky and grab 2-3 max FAs that work out. |
Worth it to you and now the cupboard is bare. Not worth it to me because the cupboard could have been well stocked with hope that any one guy could have come in and been a long term difference maker, like AD was that 1 year.
As I previously said, you can count on 1 hand how many top tier free agents the Lakers have ever signed. We all sat around and waited for Jim to bring in promised free agents year after year, and eventually when it wasn’t believable, he was fired. I’m not falling for the “we’re going to sign 3 top guys.” They’ll be doing good if they get 1 who still has a bright future. Adding 3 top f/a’s hasn’t ever been done by the Lakers and as I think about it, I doubt anyone else has either. |
You assume the YUTES would have been a championship team. I don’t think they were. |
No I don't. I assume that them PLUS the 6 1st rd picks (2nd rd'ers) could have easily added up to something very special. Why is that hard to see? |
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epic_
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Which is why the championship was absolutely worth it. No guarantees a team wins one. I’m not sure about the Lakers future but neither are you. They could be poor or they could be lucky and grab 2-3 max FAs that work out. |
Worth it to you and now the cupboard is bare. Not worth it to me because the cupboard could have been well stocked with hope that any one guy could have come in and been a long term difference maker, like AD was that 1 year.
As I previously said, you can count on 1 hand how many top tier free agents the Lakers have ever signed. We all sat around and waited for Jim to bring in promised free agents year after year, and eventually when it wasn’t believable, he was fired. I’m not falling for the “we’re going to sign 3 top guys.” They’ll be doing good if they get 1 who still has a bright future. Adding 3 top f/a’s hasn’t ever been done by the Lakers and as I think about it, I doubt anyone else has either. |
You assume the YUTES would have been a championship team. I don’t think they were. |
No I don't. I assume that them PLUS the 6 1st rd picks (2nd rd'ers) could have easily added up to something very special. Why is that hard to see? |
What does special mean to you? Getting bounced in the playin, 1st or 2nd round?
Who wants "special" when you can get a ring?
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lakersboy
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Which is why the championship was absolutely worth it. No guarantees a team wins one. I’m not sure about the Lakers future but neither are you. They could be poor or they could be lucky and grab 2-3 max FAs that work out. |
Considering that they have gotten two max FAs in 22 years, expecting differently for a management group that most in the NBA laugh at is very optimistic. We actually got one max FA in his prime 26 years ago, that is hardly a sustainable plan. |
Not sustainable, nor believable. No team has ever added 3 top free agents. The Lakers have done it 3 times ever....Kupchak ('79, Shaq '96, and Lebron). Consider me a skeptic who doesn't believe they'll soon be adding e top free agents.
The Warriors have kept their championship window open by retaining Steph, Klay, Green, Looney, and then not giving away picks, that became Poole, Wiseman, Kuminga, and Moody.
Jerry West wisely threatened to quit when they discussed trading Klay. The 2 teams playing for a ring this year are there because they retained their talent and when it wasn't successful, they didn't complain that Steph was injury prone, or that Smart wasn't a winner. They stayed the course and kept adding pieces that fit. Now it's easy to project that they could possibly be winners beyond this year. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Which is why the championship was absolutely worth it. No guarantees a team wins one. I’m not sure about the Lakers future but neither are you. They could be poor or they could be lucky and grab 2-3 max FAs that work out. |
Worth it to you and now the cupboard is bare. Not worth it to me because the cupboard could have been well stocked with hope that any one guy could have come in and been a long term difference maker, like AD was that 1 year.
As I previously said, you can count on 1 hand how many top tier free agents the Lakers have ever signed. We all sat around and waited for Jim to bring in promised free agents year after year, and eventually when it wasn’t believable, he was fired. I’m not falling for the “we’re going to sign 3 top guys.” They’ll be doing good if they get 1 who still has a bright future. Adding 3 top f/a’s hasn’t ever been done by the Lakers and as I think about it, I doubt anyone else has either. |
You assume the YUTES would have been a championship team. I don’t think they were. |
No I don't. I assume that them PLUS the 6 1st rd picks (2nd rd'ers) could have easily added up to something very special. Why is that hard to see? |
Bc it’s based in utter speculation. Even the mighty OKC Thunder didn’t win a ring with KD/Russ/Harden/Ibaka. Would you take that or a ring? I have to go with the ring. We will have to rebuild and by that point we have our picks again and cap space anyways.
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lakersboy
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Which is why the championship was absolutely worth it. No guarantees a team wins one. I’m not sure about the Lakers future but neither are you. They could be poor or they could be lucky and grab 2-3 max FAs that work out. |
Considering that they have gotten two max FAs in 22 years, expecting differently for a management group that most in the NBA laugh at is very optimistic. We actually got one max FA in his prime 26 years ago, that is hardly a sustainable plan. |
Yet they got LBJ and traded for AD and won a ring. Maybe not replicable but we know that’s their plan. |
Traded away necessary future assets for AD. No, that's not a recipe for a repeat. They won't be able to do that type of trade again for years to come because picks are gone, and nobody values reasonably tradeable players under contract to the Lakers. |
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BILBJH
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Which is why the championship was absolutely worth it. No guarantees a team wins one. I’m not sure about the Lakers future but neither are you. They could be poor or they could be lucky and grab 2-3 max FAs that work out. |
Worth it to you and now the cupboard is bare. Not worth it to me because the cupboard could have been well stocked with hope that any one guy could have come in and been a long term difference maker, like AD was that 1 year.
As I previously said, you can count on 1 hand how many top tier free agents the Lakers have ever signed. We all sat around and waited for Jim to bring in promised free agents year after year, and eventually when it wasn’t believable, he was fired. I’m not falling for the “we’re going to sign 3 top guys.” They’ll be doing good if they get 1 who still has a bright future. Adding 3 top f/a’s hasn’t ever been done by the Lakers and as I think about it, I doubt anyone else has either. |
You assume the YUTES would have been a championship team. I don’t think they were. |
No I don't. I assume that them PLUS the 6 1st rd picks (2nd rd'ers) could have easily added up to something very special. Why is that hard to see? |
Yinoma intentionally frames it to imply that all of us who wanted to keep some of the young players think the young kids by themselves would have won a title.
No one including myself has ever made that claim.
All I've said is that with the best of the young core, all our picks which includes #4 that would have been Garland or Hunter... and TWO Max slots... we would have been competitive for a long time.
When BI, Lonzo, and LBJ played together at the same time before LBJ tore his groin... they won at a 67% rate right before that Christmas game.
When these kids were only 21 or 20 years old.
Obviously Lonzo has been riddled with injuries... but BI has done well, Josh Hart has done well, Garland has done well... and we would have had all of our picks.
LBJ just got impatient... and without anyone to check him... he had his mind set on getting AD... and any nuanced strategy went out the window.
I liked AD... no one who liked the kids didn't like AD... they just preferred to either spend less or take our chances and wait a year.
Imagine if Klutch used their influence to make AD wait. That would have been the genius move of an agency with vision. We would have AD and LBJ... whatever kids we could have afforded to pay... and all of our cost controlled assets still intact and our draft picks. Instead we announced our plans openly... giving us no leverage against New Orleans and completely demoralizing the young kids which lowered their value.
Sure we won the title... but it was at an enormous long term cost and it was an extremely unlikely one when looked at objectively.
It required a three month break so that the older LBJ and injury prone AD could rest. It required the signings of a still useful Rondo and Dwight who provided Hall of Fame veteran leadership and poise at minimum salary... and it required the complete implosion of the Clippers who have dominated us during the regular season for the last ten seasons.
Is it a deserved title with no asterisk? Absolutely... but it shouldn't be used as the metric for whether the trade was wise, because old and injury prone players don't usually get three months rest before each playoffs and one usually doesn't get two Hall of Fame talents who are still playing at a starter level for minimum salary. Both of these situations masked the deficiencies left behind by the trade... which was depth.
Then, we doubled down even further trading what was left of our depth for Russ.
So sure, if we get three months break before the playoffs and Kawhi and Klay don't play next year... and we sign two Hall of Fame talents at the minimum... I like our chances even for next year.
But since those things don't usually happen... I think we are in a poor position... and it didn't need to be this way if we didn't let amateurs run our front office.
No one has ever made the claim that the young kids could win by themselves.
All some of us have said is that we'd have more depth with young kids... draft picks... two max slots.
And the two teams in the finals this year... have adhered to that principle. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Which is why the championship was absolutely worth it. No guarantees a team wins one. I’m not sure about the Lakers future but neither are you. They could be poor or they could be lucky and grab 2-3 max FAs that work out. |
Considering that they have gotten two max FAs in 22 years, expecting differently for a management group that most in the NBA laugh at is very optimistic. We actually got one max FA in his prime 26 years ago, that is hardly a sustainable plan. |
Yet they got LBJ and traded for AD and won a ring. Maybe not replicable but we know that’s their plan. |
Traded away necessary future assets for AD. No, that's not a recipe for a repeat. They won't be able to do that type of trade again for years to come because picks are gone, and nobody values reasonably tradeable players under contract to the Lakers. |
Again. I’ll take the certainty of a guaranteed championship. Whether in 2023 and beyond when Lakers essentially can have 2 additional max slots and all their picks to rebuild is still undecided. Isn’t that what you want to watch another 6 years of draft lotteries? I don’t and I don’t think the Lakers do either. You’ve been a Lakers fan long enough to know that.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Which is why the championship was absolutely worth it. No guarantees a team wins one. I’m not sure about the Lakers future but neither are you. They could be poor or they could be lucky and grab 2-3 max FAs that work out. |
Worth it to you and now the cupboard is bare. Not worth it to me because the cupboard could have been well stocked with hope that any one guy could have come in and been a long term difference maker, like AD was that 1 year.
As I previously said, you can count on 1 hand how many top tier free agents the Lakers have ever signed. We all sat around and waited for Jim to bring in promised free agents year after year, and eventually when it wasn’t believable, he was fired. I’m not falling for the “we’re going to sign 3 top guys.” They’ll be doing good if they get 1 who still has a bright future. Adding 3 top f/a’s hasn’t ever been done by the Lakers and as I think about it, I doubt anyone else has either. |
You assume the YUTES would have been a championship team. I don’t think they were. |
No I don't. I assume that them PLUS the 6 1st rd picks (2nd rd'ers) could have easily added up to something very special. Why is that hard to see? |
Yinoma intentionally frames it to imply that all of us who wanted to keep some of the young players think the young kids by themselves would have won a title.
No one including myself has ever made that claim.
All I've said is that with the best of the young core, all our picks which includes #4 that would have been Garland or Hunter... and TWO Max slots... we would have been competitive for a long time.
When BI, Lonzo, and LBJ played together at the same time before LBJ tore his groin... they won at a 67% rate right before that Christmas game.
When these kids were only 21 or 20 years old.
Obviously Lonzo has been riddled with injuries... but BI has done well, Josh Hart has done well, Garland has done well... and we would have had all of our picks.
LBJ just got impatient... and without anyone to check him... he had his mind set on getting AD... and any nuanced strategy went out the window.
I liked AD... no one who liked the kids didn't like AD... they just preferred to either spend less or take our chances and wait a year.
Imagine if Klutch used their influence to make AD wait. That would have been the genius move of an agency with vision. We would have AD and LBJ... whatever kids we could have afforded to pay... and all of our cost controlled assets still intact and our draft picks. Instead we announced our plans openly... giving us no leverage against New Orleans and completely demoralizing the young kids which lowered their value.
Sure we won the title... but it was at an enormous long term cost and it was an extremely unlikely one when looked at objectively.
It required a three month break so that the older LBJ and injury prone AD could rest. It required the signings of a still useful Rondo and Dwight who provided Hall of Fame veteran leadership and poise at minimum salary... and it required the complete implosion of the Clippers who have dominated us during the regular season for the last ten seasons.
Is it a deserved title with no asterisk? Absolutely... but it shouldn't be used as the metric for whether the trade was wise, because old and injury prone players don't usually get three months rest before each playoffs and one usually doesn't get two Hall of Fame talents who are still playing at a starter level for minimum salary. Both of these situations masked the deficiencies left behind by the trade... which was depth.
Then, we doubled down even further trading what was left of our depth for Russ.
So sure, if we get three months break before the playoffs and Kawhi and Klay don't play next year... and we sign two Hall of Fame talents at the minimum... I like our chances even for next year.
But since those things don't usually happen... I think we are in a poor position... and it didn't need to be this way if we didn't let amateurs run our front office.
No one has ever made the claim that the young kids could win by themselves.
All some of us have said is that we'd have more depth with young kids... draft picks... two max slots.
And the two teams in the finals this year... have adhered to that principle. |
So Kawhi and PG would guarantee a ring with the YUTES? Have you watched Kawhi and the Clips?
What if another team swoops in and takes AD? Or he gets hurt? Must be nice to live in the theoretical all the time bc you can make up whatever facts you want.
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lakersboy
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| nevitt_smrek wrote: | | You know, they didnt make the playoffs in LBJ year 1. Guy's getting older, and team was in win now mode. Injuries were part of the risk. Most teams would be thrilled to get a title. The bar is just set to unreasonable levels. |
My bar is wanting to have a hope of winning each year. I don't want to look at an ancient roster and know that it's dependent on too many average at best players who can't significantly rebound, score, or defend.
My problem with the Lakers selling their souls to win what is likely 1 ring, means we'll never know how at least 6 young top players would have fit with the talent we were grooming. I don't enjoy watching predictable loosing and that's the expectation the team has now despite Lebron's positive outlook. Not only is AD injury prone, his game has regressed since the bubble and this season he couldn't be relied on to make an outside shot.
I'd gladly give back the ring to have the former players and those they would have drafted and would be able to get in the future.
Last edited by lakersboy on Mon May 30, 2022 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | nevitt_smrek wrote: | | You know, they didnt make the playoffs in LBJ year 1. Guy's getting older, and team was in win now mode. Injuries were part of the risk. Most teams would be thrilled to get a title. The bar is just set to unreasonable levels. |
My bar is wanting to have a hope of winning each year. I don't want to look at an ancient roster and know that it's dependent on too many average at best players who can't significantly rebound, score, or defend.
My problem with the Lakers selling their souls to win what is likely 1 ring, means we'll never know how at least 6 young top players would have fit with the talent we were grooming. I don't enjoy watching predictable loosing and that's the expectation the team has now despite Lebron's positive outlook. Not only is AD injury prone, his game has regressed since the bubble and this season he couldn't be relied on to make an outside shot.
I'd gladly give back the ring to have the former players and they would have drafted and would be able to get in the future. |
I think you and a vocal minority of Lakers fans would. I think the majority of the Lakers fanbase take that ring all day. But to each their own. It’s one thinking if we had nailed our #2 picks (only BI did IMO).
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BILBJH
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Which is why the championship was absolutely worth it. No guarantees a team wins one. I’m not sure about the Lakers future but neither are you. They could be poor or they could be lucky and grab 2-3 max FAs that work out. |
Worth it to you and now the cupboard is bare. Not worth it to me because the cupboard could have been well stocked with hope that any one guy could have come in and been a long term difference maker, like AD was that 1 year.
As I previously said, you can count on 1 hand how many top tier free agents the Lakers have ever signed. We all sat around and waited for Jim to bring in promised free agents year after year, and eventually when it wasn’t believable, he was fired. I’m not falling for the “we’re going to sign 3 top guys.” They’ll be doing good if they get 1 who still has a bright future. Adding 3 top f/a’s hasn’t ever been done by the Lakers and as I think about it, I doubt anyone else has either. |
You assume the YUTES would have been a championship team. I don’t think they were. |
No I don't. I assume that them PLUS the 6 1st rd picks (2nd rd'ers) could have easily added up to something very special. Why is that hard to see? |
Yinoma intentionally frames it to imply that all of us who wanted to keep some of the young players think the young kids by themselves would have won a title.
No one including myself has ever made that claim.
All I've said is that with the best of the young core, all our picks which includes #4 that would have been Garland or Hunter... and TWO Max slots... we would have been competitive for a long time.
When BI, Lonzo, and LBJ played together at the same time before LBJ tore his groin... they won at a 67% rate right before that Christmas game.
When these kids were only 21 or 20 years old.
Obviously Lonzo has been riddled with injuries... but BI has done well, Josh Hart has done well, Garland has done well... and we would have had all of our picks.
LBJ just got impatient... and without anyone to check him... he had his mind set on getting AD... and any nuanced strategy went out the window.
I liked AD... no one who liked the kids didn't like AD... they just preferred to either spend less or take our chances and wait a year.
Imagine if Klutch used their influence to make AD wait. That would have been the genius move of an agency with vision. We would have AD and LBJ... whatever kids we could have afforded to pay... and all of our cost controlled assets still intact and our draft picks. Instead we announced our plans openly... giving us no leverage against New Orleans and completely demoralizing the young kids which lowered their value.
Sure we won the title... but it was at an enormous long term cost and it was an extremely unlikely one when looked at objectively.
It required a three month break so that the older LBJ and injury prone AD could rest. It required the signings of a still useful Rondo and Dwight who provided Hall of Fame veteran leadership and poise at minimum salary... and it required the complete implosion of the Clippers who have dominated us during the regular season for the last ten seasons.
Is it a deserved title with no asterisk? Absolutely... but it shouldn't be used as the metric for whether the trade was wise, because old and injury prone players don't usually get three months rest before each playoffs and one usually doesn't get two Hall of Fame talents who are still playing at a starter level for minimum salary. Both of these situations masked the deficiencies left behind by the trade... which was depth.
Then, we doubled down even further trading what was left of our depth for Russ.
So sure, if we get three months break before the playoffs and Kawhi and Klay don't play next year... and we sign two Hall of Fame talents at the minimum... I like our chances even for next year.
But since those things don't usually happen... I think we are in a poor position... and it didn't need to be this way if we didn't let amateurs run our front office.
No one has ever made the claim that the young kids could win by themselves.
All some of us have said is that we'd have more depth with young kids... draft picks... two max slots.
And the two teams in the finals this year... have adhered to that principle. |
So Kawhi and PG would guarantee a ring with the YUTES? Have you watched Kawhi and the Clips?
What if another team swoops in and takes AD? Or he gets hurt? Must be nice to live in the theoretical all the time bc you can make up whatever facts you want. |
Make up facts?
I said a clever agency would have found a way to convince AD to wait.
I said we'd be better with more depth.
Both of these statements are true.
You on the other hand claimed we said the young kids would win a title by themselves.
That is an example of making up facts.
I've never said the young kids would win a title by themselves. Who has made that claim? No one sane has.
All I've said is that we should have tried to use Klutch's power to convince AD to wait.
You think it's a pipe dream pie in the sky notion... but yet they got Simmons to out wait Philly.
Klutch likely rushed the situation because LBJ thought his window was closing faster than it was.
If they had been patient... we'd all be toasting LBJ and Klutch.
But they weren't so here we are.
You can all keep blaming Rob but to me it seems pretty obvious that LBJ is the most powerful force in the organization. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 10:01 am Post subject: |
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So let me get this straight. Under your scenario AD just waits to leave (while teams would line up to trade for him). All the YUTES miraculously reach their full potential (never mind a lot of them had major injury issues). Rosy much?
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lakersboy
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Which is why the championship was absolutely worth it. No guarantees a team wins one. I’m not sure about the Lakers future but neither are you. They could be poor or they could be lucky and grab 2-3 max FAs that work out. |
Worth it to you and now the cupboard is bare. Not worth it to me because the cupboard could have been well stocked with hope that any one guy could have come in and been a long term difference maker, like AD was that 1 year.
As I previously said, you can count on 1 hand how many top tier free agents the Lakers have ever signed. We all sat around and waited for Jim to bring in promised free agents year after year, and eventually when it wasn’t believable, he was fired. I’m not falling for the “we’re going to sign 3 top guys.” They’ll be doing good if they get 1 who still has a bright future. Adding 3 top f/a’s hasn’t ever been done by the Lakers and as I think about it, I doubt anyone else has either. |
You assume the YUTES would have been a championship team. I don’t think they were. |
No I don't. I assume that them PLUS the 6 1st rd picks (2nd rd'ers) could have easily added up to something very special. Why is that hard to see? |
What does special mean to you? Getting bounced in the playin, 1st or 2nd round?
Who wants "special" when you can get a ring? |
Darius Garland is special and was rumored to be the likely pick if not traded: Yr 3- 21.7 pts, 8.6 asts, 46% shooting, would have prevented Schroeder and Westbrook trades and thus the current salary cap issues are clearly able to retain Caruso. If you don't think he's special, watch a Cav's game. Warriors have special players. Boston does too. I don't see them getting bounced now that they've allowed their core to mature. I'll take that any day over a team that begins a season looking like it can't win and follows that up by proving me right. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Rumored. No guarantee the Lakers would have picked someone else. Hawks picked Hunter and the Pels went with a trade to get Hayes/NAW. No guarantee he can develop like he did with other legit stars around him. He got to take a ton of shots and playmaking on the Cavs.
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5125
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | So let me get this straight. Under your scenario AD just waits to leave (while teams would line up to trade for him). All the YUTES miraculously reach their full potential (never mind a lot of them had major injury issues). Rosy much? |
Worse case scenario AD leaves and we sign someone else.
Some of you act like no one would want to come here... but someone would have.
Could have even been Jimmy Buckets if we made the effort.
No one has ever claimed we'd keep all the YUTES. We'd have to decide whether to pay Ingram... and then Lonzo the following year... but what we would have had was the chance to carefully decide who to pay and who to keep and maybe trade some for future draft picks as we could no longer afford to pay them.
Then we also would have had Garland under cost control... we'd have drafted a player like Bane with whom we had mutual interest...
No one knows what would have happened... and sure, you are correct that this is all theoretical and we could still f*ck things up
But by not trying to swing for the fences and do these blockbuster trades we could have gotten a lot more for our money.
We did everything that the current good teams didn't.
The Warriors kept their young assets... the Heat kept theirs... the Bucks
kept theirs... the Celtics kept theirs
Meanwhile the Nets and us look pretty crazy right now.
I'm not saying it's never wise to trade for superstars.
Maybe Dallas does something to help Luka.
Maybe the Heat does something to help Jimmy B.
But at least get to the point where you realize your young assets can only take you so far.
LBJ was winning before he decided to trade all the kids.
He just didn't have the vision to see it through. |
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epic_
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Which is why the championship was absolutely worth it. No guarantees a team wins one. I’m not sure about the Lakers future but neither are you. They could be poor or they could be lucky and grab 2-3 max FAs that work out. |
Worth it to you and now the cupboard is bare. Not worth it to me because the cupboard could have been well stocked with hope that any one guy could have come in and been a long term difference maker, like AD was that 1 year.
As I previously said, you can count on 1 hand how many top tier free agents the Lakers have ever signed. We all sat around and waited for Jim to bring in promised free agents year after year, and eventually when it wasn’t believable, he was fired. I’m not falling for the “we’re going to sign 3 top guys.” They’ll be doing good if they get 1 who still has a bright future. Adding 3 top f/a’s hasn’t ever been done by the Lakers and as I think about it, I doubt anyone else has either. |
You assume the YUTES would have been a championship team. I don’t think they were. |
No I don't. I assume that them PLUS the 6 1st rd picks (2nd rd'ers) could have easily added up to something very special. Why is that hard to see? |
What does special mean to you? Getting bounced in the playin, 1st or 2nd round?
Who wants "special" when you can get a ring? |
Darius Garland is special and was rumored to be the likely pick if not traded: Yr 3- 21.7 pts, 8.6 asts, 46% shooting, would have prevented Schroeder and Westbrook trades and thus the current salary cap issues are clearly able to retain Caruso. If you don't think he's special, watch a Cav's game. Warriors have special players. Boston does too. I don't see them getting bounced now that they've allowed their core to mature. I'll take that any day over a team that begins a season looking like it can't win and follows that up by proving me right. |
If you have the time, do you mind posting the theoretical lineup for this past year if we didn't make the AD trade?
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | So let me get this straight. Under your scenario AD just waits to leave (while teams would line up to trade for him). All the YUTES miraculously reach their full potential (never mind a lot of them had major injury issues). Rosy much? |
Worse case scenario AD leaves and we sign someone else.
Some of you act like no one would want to come here... but someone would have.
Could have even been Jimmy Buckets if we made the effort.
No one has ever claimed we'd keep all the YUTES. We'd have to decide whether to pay Ingram... and then Lonzo the following year... but what we would have had was the chance to carefully decide who to pay and who to keep and maybe trade some for future draft picks as we could no longer afford to pay them.
Then we also would have had Garland under cost control... we'd have drafted a player like Bane with whom we had mutual interest...
No one knows what would have happened... and sure, you are correct that this is all theoretical and we could still f*ck things up
But by not trying to swing for the fences and do these blockbuster trades we could have gotten a lot more for our money.
We did everything that the current good teams didn't.
The Warriors kept their young assets... the Heat kept theirs... the Bucks
kept theirs... the Celtics kept theirs
Meanwhile the Nets and us look pretty crazy right now.
I'm not saying it's never wise to trade for superstars.
Maybe Dallas does something to help Luka.
Maybe the Heat does something to help Jimmy B.
But at least get to the point where you realize your young assets can only take you so far.
LBJ was winning before he decided to trade all the kids.
He just didn't have the vision to see it through. |
He didn’t have the vision? Dude won a championship year 1 with AD. You can whine all you want but they achieved their goal of a championship.
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BILBJH
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5125
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | So let me get this straight. Under your scenario AD just waits to leave (while teams would line up to trade for him). All the YUTES miraculously reach their full potential (never mind a lot of them had major injury issues). Rosy much? |
Worse case scenario AD leaves and we sign someone else.
Some of you act like no one would want to come here... but someone would have.
Could have even been Jimmy Buckets if we made the effort.
No one has ever claimed we'd keep all the YUTES. We'd have to decide whether to pay Ingram... and then Lonzo the following year... but what we would have had was the chance to carefully decide who to pay and who to keep and maybe trade some for future draft picks as we could no longer afford to pay them.
Then we also would have had Garland under cost control... we'd have drafted a player like Bane with whom we had mutual interest...
No one knows what would have happened... and sure, you are correct that this is all theoretical and we could still f*ck things up
But by not trying to swing for the fences and do these blockbuster trades we could have gotten a lot more for our money.
We did everything that the current good teams didn't.
The Warriors kept their young assets... the Heat kept theirs... the Bucks
kept theirs... the Celtics kept theirs
Meanwhile the Nets and us look pretty crazy right now.
I'm not saying it's never wise to trade for superstars.
Maybe Dallas does something to help Luka.
Maybe the Heat does something to help Jimmy B.
But at least get to the point where you realize your young assets can only take you so far.
LBJ was winning before he decided to trade all the kids.
He just didn't have the vision to see it through. |
He didn’t have the vision? Dude won a championship year 1 with AD. You can whine all you want but they achieved their goal of a championship. |
LBJ got to the finals with Ilgauskas and Varejao
This is individual basketball skill on a supernatural level not visionary GM skills.
He could have just as easily won with the kids and another elite player
You guys conveniently believe simultaneously that no one would come... yet we'll get Hall of Fame quality ring chasers every year.
Someone would have come... and we'd be in a lot better position had we waited. |
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Which is why the championship was absolutely worth it. No guarantees a team wins one. I’m not sure about the Lakers future but neither are you. They could be poor or they could be lucky and grab 2-3 max FAs that work out. |
Considering that they have gotten two max FAs in 22 years, expecting differently for a management group that most in the NBA laugh at is very optimistic. We actually got one max FA in his prime 26 years ago, that is hardly a sustainable plan. |
Yet they got LBJ and traded for AD and won a ring. Maybe not replicable but we know that’s their plan. |
Traded away necessary future assets for AD. No, that's not a recipe for a repeat. They won't be able to do that type of trade again for years to come because picks are gone, and nobody values reasonably tradeable players under contract to the Lakers. |
Again. I’ll take the certainty of a guaranteed championship. Whether in 2023 and beyond when Lakers essentially can have 2 additional max slots and all their picks to rebuild is still undecided. Isn’t that what you want to watch another 6 years of draft lotteries? I don’t and I don’t think the Lakers do either. You’ve been a Lakers fan long enough to know that. |
By suggesting that I would have been watching draft lotteries is freezing players in time. Example, I really disliked Marcus Smart's game and was glad to get Julius. Smart couldn't consistently shoot or score. Fast forward 8 years later and he's not the same player. Nor is Brown, Tatum, or even Theiss. They've added strategic young guards, fwds, centers, and if I wasn't a lifetime Celtics hater, I'd be rooting for a team like that.
Thinking you'd have been watching 6 more draft lotteries is freezing each player in time as if they would never improve while players on all other teams do.
Last edited by lakersboy on Mon May 30, 2022 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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