"We Gave Away A Decade Worth of Talent for AD"
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Outspoken
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:20 am    Post subject: "We Gave Away A Decade Worth of Talent for AD"

(Edit) y'all are not answering the question, so let me put it 1st....

My questions are: are you comfortable with Lakers being under Klutch? How much faith do you have in Rob? Because he is allegedly controlled by Klutch and also, he said he consulted with Kobe a lot about moves and Kobe confirmed it in an interview. I don't know if Kobe would have agreed with dismantling a championship squad. Rob's the only GM in history that have done that after a teams 1st championship run.

I was having a conversation with Laker fans after the loss to the suns and that was said; "We Gave Away A Decade Worth of Talent For AD, who can't stay healthy" then they went into LeBron, and what we gave away for him.

All the talent (potential talent) we squandered - DLO, Zo, BI, Randle, Clarkson, Zubac, Hart + picks...

I know some of you don't agree with that because you are fine with winning 1 ring and felt it was worth it. But on the contrary, AD can't stay on the court; he is made out of glass; injury prone and he is our corner piece. He is not gonna get better from here on out. Injuries linger, he may be going down from here. LeBron, it seems like father time is catching up to him and he also quit on the team. These are the 2 we gotta deal with, AD for 5 years and Bron til 2023.

People don't even respect the ring we Got. Coincidentally, we didn't even get a parade for it. Dang!

Then rather than keeping the team that some of you are satisfied with in bringing us a ring, it was decimated and reconstructed to longer term contracts and now it's said we can't really do anything. We are content with trying everything we can to sign .... Dennis Schroder? Really?

Some of you are making excuses for this year's team, talking about the injuries, while ignoring that this team just wasn't that good and had a lot of holes that were masked. Then got exposed when the injury to AD and Bron happened. The chemistry was terrible, their toughness wasn't there, rim protecting wasn't there, and we lacked bball IQ. Vogel's head coaching was also exposed. He went from not playing Gasol, to starting Gasol. Starting Drummond to not playing Drummond. Not playing Harell, to playing Harrell 1 game. Not playing THT,to playing THT. He was just throwing things out there, with no real plan. He was just hoping he struct gold.


Last edited by Outspoken on Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:27 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:22 am    Post subject:

Yes I’m comfortable. And the ring was worth it for me. It’s incredible how people think winning a ring is, and overvaluing our good but not championship level great our YUTES were. And no, no one has a “decade long” championship window. Lakers play for rings, remember?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:24 am    Post subject:

Happy we did that and would do it all over again.
Any Laker fan with a brain would take the championship over a promising young core.
Period…
Exclamation point….
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:26 am    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
Happy we did that and would do it all over again.
Any Laker fan with a brain would take the championship over a promising young core.
Period…
Exclamation point….


Agreed.
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danzag
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:27 am    Post subject:

I would do it again.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:28 am    Post subject:

17th to tie the Celtics after 6 seasons of not even being close.
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roger_federer
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:28 am    Post subject:

we are winning nothing with DLO, Zo, BI, Randle, Clarkson, Zubac.

for god's sake ZO, BI, Hart couldn't even take the team to playoffs with ZION, Jrue and Steve Adams.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:31 am    Post subject:

It was worth it, would do it again.

After Kobe, LBJ, AD, and the team came together and won it all. This team wasn’t going to win last year with the “decade worth of talent”.


Last edited by XTC on Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:32 am    Post subject:

roger_federer wrote:
we are winning nothing with DLO, Zo, BI, Randle, Clarkson, Zubac.

for god's sake ZO, BI, Hart couldn't even take the team to playoffs with ZION, Jrue and Steve Adams.


That shouldn't be a knock on them. There are a number of reasons why they didn't make the playoffs. Zo, Ingram, and Hart were all solid. One of which became an all-star..
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:36 am    Post subject:

If you have an opportunity to acquire a sure fire hall of famer that's still young.. you have to pull the trigger. It's hard to give up too much for such a player.

Even though I personally would have rather waited for him to become a free agent, and keep the young talent.

We'd be sitting pretty right now if we waited. Though we wouldn't have the chip from last season.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:38 am    Post subject:

When I see post like this, I just scratch my head. As a Laker fan, the goal is to always win a title. The Lakers....won the title. Now, we are questioning, was it worth it?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:41 am    Post subject:

rings are the only thing that matters. 2nd is hope.

If suns lose in second round they have hope. However if they never win ring with booker then they accomplished zilch.

we fast tracked to a ring. Now we have an elite big who should be easy to build around.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:46 am    Post subject:

Same argument over and over. We won ONE chip.

I'll keep repeating my counter argument... We averaged 2.5 championships per decade for the last forty years.

Your argument for doing the trade was that we won ONE chip.

This is like the Yankees completely scrapping their farm system for ONE chip.

We are the Yankees of the NBA... ONE chip is nothing to a team that won 10 titles in forty years.

We are performing at 40% of our normal pace and you think this is a justification?

Even if we won this year... we'd only be at 80% of normal.

It was better to add a different elite to the best of the young players and keep #4 and the rest of the draft picks, than trade so much for AD and try for pipe dream Kawhi.

We aren't some desperate small market team that needs to give up everything for one shot at a title.

We are now forced into a position where we have to sign Dennis Schroder for 84 to 100 million dollars and you think it's worth because we're on a pace to win one title in ten years instead of our usual 2.5 titles in ten years.

I'm sorry but this is the Lakers not the Sacramento Kings.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:47 am    Post subject:

Quote:
I was having a conversation with Laker fans after the loss to the suns and that was said; "We Gave Away A Decade Worth of Talent For AD, who can't stay healthy"


Given your longstanding hate for AD, the “Lakers fans” you talked to are most likely you, yourself and you.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:50 am    Post subject:

I don’t regret it due to the ring. But it was always a risky move.

Relying on an aging James always had a “all in” short window feel to it. It worked.

Now it becomes a game of annual re- shuffling and hoping the team can capture lightning in a bottle just one more time before it all comes tumbling down.

I may be in the minority, but I just really don’t “like” this team. I appreciate #17 and occasional moments but overall I miss rooting for the players just as much as I root for the team.

I really dislike some of the players and personalities on this and last years teams. Maybe next year will be different.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:55 am    Post subject:

We knew AD is prone to injury the first day we traded him. If you didn't complain about the trade last year, you shouldn't complain about it this year.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:56 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Same argument over and over. We won ONE chip.

I'll keep repeating my counter argument... We averaged 2.5 championships per decade for the last forty years.

Your argument for doing the trade was that we won ONE chip.

<snip>
.


Your argument ignores the fact that the Lakers do not exist in a vacuum. The league has changed drastically since Showtime and even Kobe/Pau in restricting/constraining big-market teams (like the Lakers) from constructing rosters freely and worked actively for a) parity b) tilting the playing field to favor the small market teams. I'm talking purely at the CBA level.
And before you cite the Nets, they haven't won yet, let alone repeated.
The Warriors were the last "dynasty" and would not have existed under today's CBA if not for a 1-off CBA transition that allowed them to lockup Curry for cheap.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:02 am    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
If you have an opportunity to acquire a sure fire hall of famer that's still young.. you have to pull the trigger. It's hard to give up too much for such a player.

Even though I personally would have rather waited for him to become a free agent, and keep the young talent.

We'd be sitting pretty right now if we waited. Though we wouldn't have the chip from last season.


Don't forget there's a salary cap.

Ingram - $29,467,800
Lonzo - $27,509,455 (cap hold)
Hart - $10,473,477 (cap hold)
4th pick of draft - $7,775,400.

That's $75,000,000 dollars to have to pair with AD $35,361,360 and LBJ $41,180,544.

We COULDN'T keep all of those guys AND get AD/LBJ together.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:03 am    Post subject:

We traded lonzo/Bi//Hart /number 4 pick in a 3 person deep draft, 2 first round picks in 2022 and 2024/25 and 2 swaps for AD and ring 17 because we can look back now.
No regret and would do it again. Klutch wants to win just as much as the lakers at least while Lebron is here.

Others you’ve mentioned had nothing to do with AD. Just because they flourishing with another team doesn’t mean they will do the same here. On top of that, we can’t even afford all of them at their current contracts.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:04 am    Post subject:

Just ask yourself one thing if you are a Laker fan.

We all remember Kobe. I mean who could not. Loved him. Hated him at times. Frustrated at him. The joy of his heroics. Marvel. All of that. He is the legend.

Think about if we had not traded for AD, and mamba passes, if the Lakers could have won the title that year in dedication to him. The team was in a perfect position to make it about that, because they had traded for AD. Who then carried the team on his back. I mean, that is what Lakers legacy is all about. We are not the Thunder, Sixers. or even Spurs. We never ever have built from the draft alone. We have always built via trade, FA and draft.

I get it, some are still hurt we traded away so many young draft picks that had become beloved. But what the move accomplished last year was epic. It goes beyond just winning a title. The Lakers won 16 already before that. It was about Kobe. It was about becoming respectable again (dude we had become the laughing stock of the league and media).

Maybe most overlooked in it all. One day in the future. Perhaps a talent like Steph Curry, or another perennial MVP guy like Luka Doncic will be a FA. And we may have the capspace. He will look at how we delivered a ring with Lebron, as any way possible, once he committed to us. How many franchises do that - win every single time they have a HOF still at all-star superstar level, sign with them. That is what the Lakers do. Every single time.

FAs had become accustomed to revolt against the Lakers. The things have changed so much. You will see the benefits of all this, not only with the ring. But after Bron leaves, and the next big time FA is looking around. The respect we showed to Bron by selling all the assets and getting AD, a future FA will acknowledge that. The Lakers are a player in FAs all the time again now.

(bleep), I am just happy we did it in dedication to Kobe. That alone was enough. But if if was not, look at all the other factors. The moves goes way beyond just trading for AD. It changed the landscape of how the Lakers were viewed and where they were positioned. For sure, there will be another down time, especially when Bron hangs them up. But, the key will be this. I highly doubt anyone will believe that narrative that the Lakers can not get it done and that the FO is incompetent again. It is important, on that alone, they established a winning identity again.

I mean honest, sometimes I read this stuff and think. Am I missing something - did Ball and Ingram win 2 titles. Did DLO win a ring as the man. Did Randle win a ring. Like legit, nothing big happened on the other side. They are all really good players but the Lakers already knew that. But getting an AD and Lebron together is a rare rare opportunity in league history. You can not pass on that, IMO.


Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:05 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Same argument over and over. We won ONE chip.

I'll keep repeating my counter argument... We averaged 2.5 championships per decade for the last forty years.

Your argument for doing the trade was that we won ONE chip.

<snip>
.


Your argument ignores the fact that the Lakers do not exist in a vacuum. The league has changed drastically since Showtime and even Kobe/Pau in restricting/constraining big-market teams (like the Lakers) from constructing rosters freely and worked actively for a) parity b) tilting the playing field to favor the small market teams. I'm talking purely at the CBA level.
And before you cite the Nets, they haven't won yet, let alone repeated.
The Warriors were the last "dynasty" and would not have existed under today's CBA if not for a 1-off CBA transition that allowed them to lockup Curry for cheap.


You want to talk about unprecedented in the modern era?
We had a hopefully unique opportunity of six or seven horrible seasons combined with incredible lottery luck... including #4 who we never even got to choose. Who lands three #2 picks and a #7 ... makes incredible lower draft picks like Clarkson, Zubac, Thomas Bryant... and somehow parlays that into an extremely talented but injury prone superstar who we probably could have convinced to come the following year for free.

Is it possible AD walks... sure... but the worst that would have happened is we could have picked up another agent. Someone says that no one else wanted to come here... yet somehow we got two hall of fame players to come and play for minimum wages.

If you want to have your own opinion that one title is worth it... that is your right... but calling those of us who wanted to sign another elite or wait one year for AD stupid... is another thing.

Especially now that we are in a position where we are begging that piece of sh*t Schroder to stay.

I don't get how you all can't see that this is a terrible and avoidable position to be in right now.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:07 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Same argument over and over. We won ONE chip.

I'll keep repeating my counter argument... We averaged 2.5 championships per decade for the last forty years.

Your argument for doing the trade was that we won ONE chip.

This is like the Yankees completely scrapping their farm system for ONE chip.

We are the Yankees of the NBA... ONE chip is nothing to a team that won 10 titles in forty years.

We are performing at 40% of our normal pace and you think this is a justification?

Even if we won this year... we'd only be at 80% of normal.

It was better to add a different elite to the best of the young players and keep #4 and the rest of the draft picks, than trade so much for AD and try for pipe dream Kawhi.

We aren't some desperate small market team that needs to give up everything for one shot at a title.

We are now forced into a position where we have to sign Dennis Schroder for 84 to 100 million dollars and you think it's worth because we're on a pace to win one title in ten years instead of our usual 2.5 titles in ten years.

I'm sorry but this is the Lakers not the Sacramento Kings.

And everyone has told you 2.5 per decade is not happening with current Salary cap rules unless the super stars was drafted by us.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:08 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Same argument over and over. We won ONE chip.

I'll keep repeating my counter argument... We averaged 2.5 championships per decade for the last forty years.

Your argument for doing the trade was that we won ONE chip.

This is like the Yankees completely scrapping their farm system for ONE chip.

We are the Yankees of the NBA... ONE chip is nothing to a team that won 10 titles in forty years.

We are performing at 40% of our normal pace and you think this is a justification?

Even if we won this year... we'd only be at 80% of normal.

It was better to add a different elite to the best of the young players and keep #4 and the rest of the draft picks, than trade so much for AD and try for pipe dream Kawhi.

We aren't some desperate small market team that needs to give up everything for one shot at a title.

We are now forced into a position where we have to sign Dennis Schroder for 84 to 100 million dollars and you think it's worth because we're on a pace to win one title in ten years instead of our usual 2.5 titles in ten years.

I'm sorry but this is the Lakers not the Sacramento Kings.


Finally someone gets it. It's not solely was it worth it, it's putting us in a position to have sustainable success. Let's just say it was worth trading all our talent away and decimating our youthful talented team for Bron and AD; winning 1 ring. We squandered that championship team away. That's like spending 2 dollars on a quick pick lottery ticket, win, and then spend all the money you won. There was no plan, and still no plan for the foreseeable future, but atleast we won? We are acting like the Mavs after they won that 1 championship and not the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:08 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Same argument over and over. We won ONE chip.

I'll keep repeating my counter argument... We averaged 2.5 championships per decade for the last forty years.

Your argument for doing the trade was that we won ONE chip.

This is like the Yankees completely scrapping their farm system for ONE chip.

We are the Yankees of the NBA... ONE chip is nothing to a team that won 10 titles in forty years.

We are performing at 40% of our normal pace and you think this is a justification?

Even if we won this year... we'd only be at 80% of normal.

It was better to add a different elite to the best of the young players and keep #4 and the rest of the draft picks, than trade so much for AD and try for pipe dream Kawhi.

We aren't some desperate small market team that needs to give up everything for one shot at a title.

We are now forced into a position where we have to sign Dennis Schroder for 84 to 100 million dollars and you think it's worth because we're on a pace to win one title in ten years instead of our usual 2.5 titles in ten years.

I'm sorry but this is the Lakers not the Sacramento Kings.


I’ll take that one ring and rewind it back. Rob outsmarted himself with so called talent upgrade. It’s quite clear what kind of players we need to surround AD and Lebron. Lebron still elite and so does a healthy AD so we have at least a couple of years.

No way we gonna have that chance with those young guys . They are already at their 4th and 5th years and still can’t make the playoff.


Last edited by CRoost on Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:08 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Same argument over and over. We won ONE chip.

I'll keep repeating my counter argument... We averaged 2.5 championships per decade for the last forty years.

Your argument for doing the trade was that we won ONE chip.

This is like the Yankees completely scrapping their farm system for ONE chip.

We are the Yankees of the NBA... ONE chip is nothing to a team that won 10 titles in forty years.

We are performing at 40% of our normal pace and you think this is a justification?

Even if we won this year... we'd only be at 80% of normal.

It was better to add a different elite to the best of the young players and keep #4 and the rest of the draft picks, than trade so much for AD and try for pipe dream Kawhi.

We aren't some desperate small market team that needs to give up everything for one shot at a title.

We are now forced into a position where we have to sign Dennis Schroder for 84 to 100 million dollars and you think it's worth because we're on a pace to win one title in ten years instead of our usual 2.5 titles in ten years.

I'm sorry but this is the Lakers not the Sacramento Kings.


2.5 championships a decade. 2 years of AD and 1 championship, seems to me he has a chance to get 1 or 2 more in 8 seasons. Math is not your friend. You act like he has been here a decade or is declining. The guy is 28 years old.
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