Who do we keep? Who do we re-sign?
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waterman40
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:20 pm    Post subject: Who do we keep? Who do we re-sign?

Dennis Schroder: Miami and the Knicks might be suitors but I personally don't think he receives any offers above $20 million anywhere else. Bottom line, He is the best the Lakers can hope to get, even if they re-sign him to trade for a replacement. Prediction, we re-sign Dennis, even if just to trade him where he wants to go.

Wesley Matthews: Wants to play here, probably more valuable in a second stint, make take the Dudley role, if we don't resign JD. Prediction, we resign Wes.

Andre Drummond: No way anybody pays him $20 million again, but would he be happy playing for just a couple million? I'd like to keep him, but somebody is going to offer him $10-12 million per, and he likely takes it. Prediction, Andre moves on.

Ben McLemore: If we keep our draft pick, they are likely Ben's replacement. Prediction, don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

Marc Gasol: Says he wants back, which I think is a little surprising. Does he want his second year of $5 million or does he want to retire? Prediction, Marc is back next year.

Montrezl Harrell: Player option $9.49 million, he could also come back I understand at a new deal at $11 million. MH is an emotional guy, I think he walks, even if it is for less money. Prediction, MH takes his talents to some place like Atlanta or the Pelicans.

Jared Dudley: Prediction, if he doesn't retire wants his job back as the old man in the barber shop.

Morris the good twin: I still can't believe someone didn't offer him more money last season. He also seemed to take it kind of personal how other guys didn't measure up. As long as his doppelganger is footing the bill, he stays here. Prediction. Morris is back next year.

Alex Caruso and THT: now the hard part - Alex is unrestricted but wants to remain here. I've heard the market is $8-12 million a year, which I wouldn't touch with a ten foot cattle prod. I've also heard that if the offer is $6-8 million, Alex would give us the hometown discount. Prediction, if the money is right, we re-sign Alex.

BUT.....

THT: He is likely at least another year of seasoning away from being worth a starters level contract, great flashes, but man another Lakers guard and not a lot of outside shooting. Rumors persist he might get offered a poison pill MLE contract, where that third year could be up over $20 million - I have to self administer the heart defibrillator at work just thinking about that! I've also heard people say that if it comes down to giving one player the MLE, its THT who wins. It's also possible if you are looking at adding a star level guard in a trade, a res-signed THT, Dennis, and Kuzma or Montrel is our bait
. Prediction, THt gets his money, might be bait for Lavine, Beal, etc.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:02 am    Post subject:

Keep gasol, dudley, caruso and tht.

The rest can go
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:29 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
Keep gasol, dudley, caruso and tht.

The rest can go


This sums it up
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:47 am    Post subject:

Get rid of Schroder for sure and Trezz. Oh and Pure Trash Kuzma
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:07 am    Post subject:

I tried playing around the roster builder tool at tradenba, in which I could sign free agents to production based contracts, and I can’t find any way to keep Caruso since he costs $9 mil, which is the cost of like four free agent signings.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Who do we keep? Who do we re-sign?

Quote:
Prediction, THt gets his money, might be bait for Lavine, Beal, etc.


The Bulls and the Wizards would hang the phone up laughing hysterically at Rob.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:25 am    Post subject:

Schroder: I think you have to either sign him or sign and trade him. Unless he demands a max or something silly and its just too much you can't afford to lose the asset.

Wesley Matthews: I'm fine with finding an upgrade if you can for the minimum but I'm also fine with Wes coming back. He can defend. His shot has abandoned him but we're talking about a minimum contract player here, he's probably still a decent signing for the minimum.

Andre Drummond: I don't think he's a great fit. However I also think you need some type of a player in his role. If he comes back cheap then sure, why not? I'd prefer him over Trez.

Ben McLemore: Same as with Matthews, if he's willing to come for a minimum I don't mind him. He's not going to see a lot of time but he is a shooter with a quick trigger and may be the best you can get for a deep bench minimum.

Marc Gasol: Unless he retires or gets traded he'll be back. I don't have a problem with Gasol. He's not the player he once was but he is still a decent defender and can stretch the floor.

Montrezl Harrell: He's a goner. Either some team is going to give him a multi-year deal and he'll bail. He can opt in to his previous deal, or opt out and try to get a longer deal for a small raise. I don't mind giving him a contract and then moving him. But he has disappeared two seasons in a row now as the season wound down. I hope he signs a deal or extends though so the Lakers can use him as a trade asset. His scoring is going to be valuable in the right situation but it won't be here.

Jared Dudley: He isn't very useful on the court, but similar to other guys, as a deep bench guy he can come in and hit a three in the event of emergency. He'd mainly be for chemistry.

Morris: I think he'll be back. He wants to be here. And the Lakers do have his bird rights. If some other team offers him a multi-year deal it will probably be for the minimum, and the Lakers can offer him slightly more than that. I don't think he was great this year. But he can stretch the floor and cover multiple positions.

Alex Caruso: I think he wants to be here. But if another team offers him a big deal the Lakers may not match unless they can move some salary around. I hope he's back, but I do think of all the guys I'd like to see back, he's the most likely not to be.

THT: I can't see any scenario where he wouldn't be back other than the Lakers including him in a trade. Even if some team offered him the most they could I think the Lakers match it and then deal with it later.

KCP: The inconsistency on offense bothers me. But overall I'm fine with KCP. He plays hard defense. He gives effort. And he can (generally) shoot. If he has to be a casualty to make salaries meet to bring someone in, so be it, but I'd much rather move Kuzma.

Kuzma: I think Kuzma has made a lot of progress outside of scoring. He was an improved player, even if the stats may not jump out. That having been said, I just don't think he's ever going to live up to his contract on this team. On most nights he won't get the opportunities, and when there are injuries he's been pretty inconsistent in what he's given. I think there is a decent chance he gets moved.
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troy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:30 am    Post subject:

I love AC. Great defender, smart player. But he has not improved his shooting, outside or otherwise, and I'm sick and tired of this Lakers team not having shooters. I need players to ascend, not be steady, or even decline. His success is tied to Lebron, but Lebron is aging and we need players that can perform individually, not as a supplement. AC can go.

I hate Dennis Schroder. I don't like him as a player, or a person. You don't come to my Lakers and start demanding things, acting like you're the best thing around when you can't be relied upon to even get a Covid shot. Beyond my personal hatred of him, he's not a good player. He can't hit simple mid range shots, he can't finish with consistency, and he can't run the offense. More than everything else, he's not worth what he wants. Sign and trade, but otherwise, DS can go.

I like Andre Drummond. Why? Because we need someone to do the inside muscle work that we can't rely on the fragile Anthony Davis to do. I tend to go with what works, and what worked when we won it all was a huge, physical front court that could control the boards and intimidate defensively (Dwight/McGee). I come from the mindset that good defense can produce offense, so the priority should be on stopping shots. Drummond, if Vogel can commit to him as the starting center, would come around defensively and as a rebounder for the Lakers. And he'll pick up those opportunity points as well. Drummond is a must keep.

Montrez Harrell is a question mark. Personally, I like his style. I like his passion, his enthusiasm, his toughness. I like his ability to score midrange and low, two things we need because, again (just like with Drummond) we can't rely on Anthony Davis to do that sort of physical work inside, unless we really need it during the playoffs. What people don't understand is that to preserve Anthony Davis during the regular season, we NEED players like Drummond and Trez. Trez, to me, is a must keep, but I suspect he walks.

McClemore/Matthews we both need to keep because WE.NEED.SHOOTERS. Not sure why we over-think this game. Basketball is simple; you win by scoring more points than the other team, and you score points by making baskets. With so many teams in the NBA that shoot from the 3 so effectively, we need players to keep up. These two are our best 3 point shooters, so of course, we need to keep them.

I really like THT because he represents our future. Look, Lebron won't play forever, and we need that budding superstar to pair along side AD when Lebron is gone. THT has the ability to break down defenses, he has the ability to shoot the 3, and he is long and strong enough to play good defense. Moreso, he's young...and he's a healthy sort of young, someone we can depend on not to get injured so often. We need that one young Laker that can turn into something special a few years in, and that's THT. Is he raw? Yes. Is he learning? Hell yes. Absolutely must keep.

KCP? Honestly, Vogel should tell KCP to do one thing and focus in on it...play defense. What I realized this season is that KCP is a good to excellent defender, and we need that. His weakness is that he can't shoot consistently, so I'd tell him to develop a mid range game, don't rely so much on the 3 point line, and be the best defender he can be. Keep him with those criteria in place.

Dudley, Kieff and Gasol can go. I like Kieff, as long he remains cheap. Gasol doesn't fit this team's need as a defender and rebounder. Dudley should retire and move to the coaching staff.

Lastly, the one that needs to get on the first flight out of town as DS is Kuzma. I don't hate Kuzma. I've been very patient with him. But, I just don't think he'll get any better, nor do I think he works hard enough to get better. Yes, he improved some on the defensive side, but he strikes me as a player that wants out so that he can start on a team and be the top dog there. I know he signed that $40 million contract, but who wouldn't? And I also think he likes being in LA so that he can run around with models and actresses. Whatever. Package him and trade him to a team that he can start on and flourish. Good for him and the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:32 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
Keep gasol, dudley, caruso and tht.

The rest can go


Why keep Dudley? I don't understand what he offers our team.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:01 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
Keep gasol, dudley, caruso and tht.

The rest can go


Why keep Dudley? I don't understand what he offers our team.


I never liked him either, but he keeps the schröders of the world from ruining team chemistry. Championship teams need team chemistry
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:19 am    Post subject:

DS - don't have a choice. Pretty much have to sign or s&t at whatever number or the Lakers are screwed with cap flexibility. AC & THT - both have value but neither are irreplaceable. If I had to choose between the two, it would be THT but for no more than 6m/yr. If they both need to go, it might be wise to have a more seasoned traditional PG backing up DS anyway. Career 35% 3 point shooter Dragic would be dope if he will take what the Lakers can give.

KCP - At only 13m in comparison to other players and with his typical team contribution, I think you roll with that. Wes & BMac - if they will take vet min, absolutely run that back there were glimpses of really good play from both.

Duds/Kieff/McKinnie - at minimums and ok as being mostly out of the rotation, no brainer. However, all seem easily replaceable if not.... I'll also mention Kuz here as he is a sore spot with me. It's time for him to go. He does try, he's just way too inconsistent (and cocky) which puts more game-to-game burden on the stars - net negative to the team in my book.


That leaves the bigs:

Trez - the conundrum. Good player, bad fit with this team. I am not sure but I think if he opts out the Lakers get back the NTPMLE of 9.3m and if he doesn't then he can be traded. One or the other needs to happen. Whatever the case use the money/trade for help at guard and maybe take Kuz' money to get a tall stretch 4 to go with AD. Trez clogging the lane and AD shooting 3s sucks...

AD2 - fit and money are both bad on top of the fact he's never been on a successful team. Only scenario back would be for vet min and backup role but he won't want that. Getting Dwight back for this role should be a priority.

Gasol - fact is he is a champion. If he wants to play that is a another no brainer.




EDIT/PS:
One last comment on Trez... just hilarious that Julius Randle didn't fit with Lebron James and let him walk for nothing but a couple years later the brain trust thought that Montrez Harrell would and gave full MLE....
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:47 am    Post subject:

troy wrote:
I love AC. Great defender, smart player. But he has not improved his shooting, outside or otherwise, and I'm sick and tired of this Lakers team not having shooters. I need players to ascend, not be steady, or even decline. His success is tied to Lebron, but Lebron is aging and we need players that can perform individually, not as a supplement. AC can go.

I hate Dennis Schroder. I don't like him as a player, or a person. You don't come to my Lakers and start demanding things, acting like you're the best thing around when you can't be relied upon to even get a Covid shot. Beyond my personal hatred of him, he's not a good player. He can't hit simple mid range shots, he can't finish with consistency, and he can't run the offense. More than everything else, he's not worth what he wants. Sign and trade, but otherwise, DS can go.

I like Andre Drummond. Why? Because we need someone to do the inside muscle work that we can't rely on the fragile Anthony Davis to do. I tend to go with what works, and what worked when we won it all was a huge, physical front court that could control the boards and intimidate defensively (Dwight/McGee). I come from the mindset that good defense can produce offense, so the priority should be on stopping shots. Drummond, if Vogel can commit to him as the starting center, would come around defensively and as a rebounder for the Lakers. And he'll pick up those opportunity points as well. Drummond is a must keep.

Montrez Harrell is a question mark. Personally, I like his style. I like his passion, his enthusiasm, his toughness. I like his ability to score midrange and low, two things we need because, again (just like with Drummond) we can't rely on Anthony Davis to do that sort of physical work inside, unless we really need it during the playoffs. What people don't understand is that to preserve Anthony Davis during the regular season, we NEED players like Drummond and Trez. Trez, to me, is a must keep, but I suspect he walks.

McClemore/Matthews we both need to keep because WE.NEED.SHOOTERS. Not sure why we over-think this game. Basketball is simple; you win by scoring more points than the other team, and you score points by making baskets. With so many teams in the NBA that shoot from the 3 so effectively, we need players to keep up. These two are our best 3 point shooters, so of course, we need to keep them.

I really like THT because he represents our future. Look, Lebron won't play forever, and we need that budding superstar to pair along side AD when Lebron is gone. THT has the ability to break down defenses, he has the ability to shoot the 3, and he is long and strong enough to play good defense. Moreso, he's young...and he's a healthy sort of young, someone we can depend on not to get injured so often. We need that one young Laker that can turn into something special a few years in, and that's THT. Is he raw? Yes. Is he learning? Hell yes. Absolutely must keep.

KCP? Honestly, Vogel should tell KCP to do one thing and focus in on it...play defense. What I realized this season is that KCP is a good to excellent defender, and we need that. His weakness is that he can't shoot consistently, so I'd tell him to develop a mid range game, don't rely so much on the 3 point line, and be the best defender he can be. Keep him with those criteria in place.

Dudley, Kieff and Gasol can go. I like Kieff, as long he remains cheap. Gasol doesn't fit this team's need as a defender and rebounder. Dudley should retire and move to the coaching staff.

Lastly, the one that needs to get on the first flight out of town as DS is Kuzma. I don't hate Kuzma. I've been very patient with him. But, I just don't think he'll get any better, nor do I think he works hard enough to get better. Yes, he improved some on the defensive side, but he strikes me as a player that wants out so that he can start on a team and be the top dog there. I know he signed that $40 million contract, but who wouldn't? And I also think he likes being in LA so that he can run around with models and actresses. Whatever. Package him and trade him to a team that he can start on and flourish. Good for him and the Lakers.


Just gonna say that AC shot 40% from 3 this year.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:03 pm    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
Keep gasol, dudley, caruso and tht.

The rest can go


Why keep Dudley? I don't understand what he offers our team.


I never liked him either, but he keeps the schröders of the world from ruining team chemistry. Championship teams need team chemistry


This year team obviously lacking chemistry. We should just stop looking for those me me me type of players .
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:07 pm    Post subject:

They all can go honestly.

Especially the additions from last season.

Watching the remaining teams in the playoffs, the Lakers have a lot of work to do.

None of these guys stack up to the type of role players playing for the Suns, Clippers, Jazz, Nuggets, Nets, Bucks, Hawks or Sixers.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:09 pm    Post subject:

Hard to sign front-end talent when we are in the cap situation we are in. I think we have to keep most of the guys for that purpose and have a recuperative offseason. If we improve the team it would have to be through trades, and its hard to make trades if you let everyone walk for nothing.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:36 pm    Post subject:

RashardA wrote:
They all can go honestly.

Especially the additions from last season.

Watching the remaining teams in the playoffs, the Lakers have a lot of work to do.

None of these guys stack up to the type of role players playing for the Suns, Clippers, Jazz, Nuggets, Nets, Bucks, Hawks or Sixers.


Wait until you see what bringing in 5-8 minimum deal level players to replace Trezz/AD2/Dennis/Wes feels like talent wise.

It didn't work well but in terms of talent, big difference with those guys and most min. deal players.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:24 pm    Post subject:

It's not so simple, we can't just let go of the players we think suck, and have very much cash to get replacements. You let go of Kuzma, KCP, Harrell, DS, you are basically getting rookie and free agents minimum deals, and time has seem to show that many players don't play that well in LA. Factor in that other players have had a hard time meshing with Lebron; basically Wade, Bosh, and Irving are the guys who have done really well - and we have AD.

AD needs a big center - so you keep either Gasol or Drummond.

You can probably afford to keep only one of AC or THT. Factor in that you probably need to include THT in a deal with Kuzma and another bigger contract if you are trying to get that illusive third star here.

If Harrell leaves, which is very likely, then that probably creates more minutes for Kuzma. Some of the minimum guys will want to stay, the ones that don't we will replace with other minimum level guys.

There are no minimum deals for a DS replacement that help us. You either need DS or you re-sign him and package him to get a re-signed Lowry, Beal, etc.

Probably the two most important things in the offseason:

Get Lebron and AD 100% healthy

Get all the returning players to work on their outside shooting.

If we bring in anyone new in, they need to be able to shoot when called upon.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:28 pm    Post subject:

I would prioritize keeping KCP, Caruso and THT

Gasol, Schroder, Mathews and Kuzma next

I would definitely let Harrell go. He is too limited to help a team like the Lakers
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:27 pm    Post subject:

Keep Harrell, Gasol, maybe Drummond if you get him cheap. Dump the rest.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:54 pm    Post subject:

Keep: LeBron, AD, Caruso. That's it
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:18 pm    Post subject:

Keep:
Caruso
THT
KCP
AD
Bron
Keef
Gasol

Maybe:
Wes
McKinnie

Trade: Kuzma

Schroeder....sign him for 2 years so we can trade him later or figure out a sign and trade
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:16 pm    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
Keep gasol, dudley, caruso and tht.

The rest can go


Why keep Dudley? I don't understand what he offers our team.


I never liked him either, but he keeps the schröders of the world from ruining team chemistry. Championship teams need team chemistry


Coaching role ?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:02 am    Post subject:

Lakerz113 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
Keep gasol, dudley, caruso and tht.

The rest can go


Why keep Dudley? I don't understand what he offers our team.


I never liked him either, but he keeps the schröders of the world from ruining team chemistry. Championship teams need team chemistry


Coaching role ?


Dudley actually is one of those players who can come in cold and knock down an open three, also bodyguard-ish
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:11 am    Post subject:

THT stays unless overwhelmed with a great player trade...Nothing guaranteed for the rest except AD and Bron....most likely gone for sure Wes, Marc, Kief, Drummond (unless agrees to $6 million or less), McKinnie. I believe Rob will offer DS $18 million multi year deal, unsure if DS accepts. Trade candidates Kuz and KCP.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:35 am    Post subject:

I hope the Lakers don't overvalue THT too much. Trade him if it means maximizing this window for Bron/AD
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