Biggest Mistake of 2020-2021 Season is...
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:34 am    Post subject: Biggest Mistake of 2020-2021 Season is...

... Lakers signing great talent but were a poor fit that even may have put their roles above the team.

Dennis Schroder:

- Look at the official DS page and you will see how 99.9% of Lakers fans were excited trading Green for last season's highest scoring 6th man. With DS and eventually Trezz signing we automatically started fantasizing how we would have the best bench unit in the NBA... and then, 1st day of media day DS in his first Laker introduction says he no longer wants to come off the bench and intends to be a starter. Then reports came that his agent had talks with the Lakers of almost promising to start DS before the trade was even completed. The next day, an article even came out saying that DS as a starter hasn't done as well in the past and that he was a much better 6th man.

Montrezl Harrell:

- Like above, everyone was shocked but super excited to "steal" last season's 6th Man of the Year from their crosstown sibling. Having a big man to bolster the bench which was fairly weak last season (aside from Playoff Rondo) was a huge plus. However, his weakness was evident, without a guard constantly feeding Trezz, his offense wasn't as consistent nor as efficient. But the most obvious flaw, he got eaten alive on defense, something that is this Vogel led Lakers team's calling card, something that was now missing with Dwight Howard gone. To be fair, I think most Lakers fans already knew this would happen based on his performance last season against other team's bigs, but to see it happen to us when we had Dwight the previous season was a real eye opener. Whether it was Vogel's insistence to keep playing Trezz at the 5, we will never know, but by the Playoffs, it was clear by the DNP's that Trezz was hurting more than helping.

Andre Drummond:

- LG was shocked with excitement when he announced he was coming here, because everyone thought he was going to Brooklyn. Lakers fans were super excited to have a former 2-time All-Star, rebounding champ for cheap! Most fans didn't even care that the Lakers already promised Dre he would be the starting 5 for the Lakers even if he hadn't played for a month and a half as he was waiting to get bought out. But the moment he and AD started playing together and the Lakers racking up 3 straight losses, it was obvious to see their fit wasn't good together. Despite that, Dre remained in the starting lineup with AD for the next 21 games posting a losing record of 10-11... a starter until the final game of the Playoffs where he went straight to DNP and didn't even come off the bench, but it was already too late by then.

----

Everyone last off-season, even the known Laker-hating journalist, were saying this Lakers team, on paper, was more talented and much better than last season's Championship team.

Too bad talent does not equal fit.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:47 am    Post subject:

That’s still on the coaching staff. Vogel is who he is, defensive oriented.

He had George Hill in Indiana. He had Avery Bradley last year. Dennis Schroder is not that type of guard.

He had Roy Hibbert in Indiana. He had Dwight Howard last year. Montrezl Harrell is not that type of center.

You figure he could change to fit the personnel, but that wasn’t the case at all. Do we make changes to fit Vogel’s defensive schemes or find a coach that can optimize the talent on the roster? They are both free agents this summer, so they may make the decision for us.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:47 am    Post subject:

In other words the Lakers signed great talent who don’t know how to win.

DS is a loser.

Trez was a Clipper aka loser.

Drummond has played for lottery teams so he’s a loser.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:25 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
In other words the Lakers signed great talent who don’t know how to win.

DS is a loser.

Trez was a Clipper aka loser.

Drummond has played for lottery teams so he’s a loser.


lol.. ding, ding, ding

(although I suppose that COULD be changed by contract stability, player commitment and good coaching but it's unlikely - I wouldn't hold my breath on that ever being the case for Trez or Drum for example)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:26 am    Post subject:

None of these guys really made me optimistic except for the regular season run. The championship team pretty much indicated what kind of players we need to surround Lebron/AD . None of them fits the bill. I know AD got hurt but even when we were healthy , none of those aforementioned role players are good FIT. Sure they have better individual talent but this is a team game and none of them are impact type of players. In our team specifically, they are more of role players.

Catering to DS and his shenanigans pretty much sums it up that beta mentality that our FO has. And him failing to step up validated Pelinka trying to be cute with hi ls so called upgrade. All this me me me players should be avoided like a plague. Just hoping we can somehow extract some value with a sign and trade, even a trade exception would be nice. As far the player, PASS. Just groom THT into that role and let us find guys Reggie Jackson, Batum, Payne etc. It’s not that difficult to find players that are fit next to Lebron/AD. Hoping Wes resign too.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:35 am    Post subject:

I thought DS would have been an upgrade over Rondo, and I think he would have had he taken a backup role I'm not sure who should have started, because I don't think Caruso or THT could fill playmaking/ballhandling responsibilities that well in a starting unit either.

I was unhappy with us losing both Javale and Dwight, but thought Harrell would pose problems off the bench for opponent teams. Didn't realize his defense was as atrocious as it seemed at times, and didn't think the coach would insist on playing him at the 5 against much bigger bigs. Ultimately he just didn't fit with the roster well and coach didn't help.

Drummond is a good pickup, but again, Coach needed to adjust minutes to get him and AD away from being on the court as often. I assume Vogel was forced to start him and play big mins as a part of his signing with the team, and only in the playoffs was he going to be given an option to stop doing so. Considering Pelinka or his group used to represent Drummond and we took him from the Nets signing him, I am pretty sure Vogel was forced to start him and play big mins as a part of his signing. Drummond was probably told he'd get to audition for a future contract.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Biggest Mistake of 2020-2021 Season is...

Jordan-esque wrote:
... Lakers signing great talent but were a poor fit that even may have put their roles above the team.

Dennis Schroder:

- Look at the official DS page and you will see how 99.9% of Lakers fans were excited trading Green for last season's highest scoring 6th man. With DS and eventually Trezz signing we automatically started fantasizing how we would have the best bench unit in the NBA... and then, 1st day of media day DS in his first Laker introduction says he no longer wants to come off the bench and intends to be a starter. Then reports came that his agent had talks with the Lakers of almost promising to start DS before the trade was even completed. The next day, an article even came out saying that DS as a starter hasn't done as well in the past and that he was a much better 6th man.

Montrezl Harrell:

- Like above, everyone was shocked but super excited to "steal" last season's 6th Man of the Year from their crosstown sibling. Having a big man to bolster the bench which was fairly weak last season (aside from Playoff Rondo) was a huge plus. However, his weakness was evident, without a guard constantly feeding Trezz, his offense wasn't as consistent nor as efficient. But the most obvious flaw, he got eaten alive on defense, something that is this Vogel led Lakers team's calling card, something that was now missing with Dwight Howard gone. To be fair, I think most Lakers fans already knew this would happen based on his performance last season against other team's bigs, but to see it happen to us when we had Dwight the previous season was a real eye opener. Whether it was Vogel's insistence to keep playing Trezz at the 5, we will never know, but by the Playoffs, it was clear by the DNP's that Trezz was hurting more than helping.

Andre Drummond:

- LG was shocked with excitement when he announced he was coming here, because everyone thought he was going to Brooklyn. Lakers fans were super excited to have a former 2-time All-Star, rebounding champ for cheap! Most fans didn't even care that the Lakers already promised Dre he would be the starting 5 for the Lakers even if he hadn't played for a month and a half as he was waiting to get bought out. But the moment he and AD started playing together and the Lakers racking up 3 straight losses, it was obvious to see their fit wasn't good together. Despite that, Dre remained in the starting lineup with AD for the next 21 games posting a losing record of 10-11... a starter until the final game of the Playoffs where he went straight to DNP and didn't even come off the bench, but it was already too late by then.

----

Everyone last off-season, even the known Laker-hating journalist, were saying this Lakers team, on paper, was more talented and much better than last season's Championship team.

Too bad talent does not equal fit.


1. To be fair, it's not surprising DS wanted to start. He averaging 19 ppg. as a starter in Atlanta before going to OKC. Only reason he didn't start there was because they had a guy named Russell Westbrook. I don't know if I buy the idea that the Lakers traded for him with the plan of him being a 6th man, rather than a starter. Even though he was the 6th man of the year, for his career he has performed slightly better as a starter.

2. I always thought Haz was a bad choice.

3. I don't think Drummond was a bad pickup for a minimum buyout guy. We didn't play well with him, but it's not like we were playing well before he arrived.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:48 am    Post subject:

We went from High Character winning players in D Green, Rondo, McGee to 3 individual "ME" first characters who have not won anything in this league
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:51 am    Post subject:

Our regular season record was fine in games in which both LeBron and AD played in. We won the play-in game and were up 2-1 against the 2nd seed before AD went down with an injury. What is the evidence that this team was constructed any worse than last year's team? We just dealt with more injuries to LeBron and AD.

Or, do you think last year's team would have gone further with an injured AD than this year's team did? I doubt it.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:18 am    Post subject:

LGFan wrote:
We went from High Character winning players in D Green, Rondo, McGee to 3 individual "ME" first characters who have not won anything in this league


Last season’s role players:
Green - champion
Rondo - champion
McGee - champion
Dwight - loser

This season’s role players:
Gasol - champion
Schroeder- loser
Drummond - loser
Harrell - loser
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:22 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
LGFan wrote:
We went from High Character winning players in D Green, Rondo, McGee to 3 individual "ME" first characters who have not won anything in this league


Last season’s role players:
Green - champion
Rondo - champion
McGee - champion
Dwight - loser

This season’s role players:
Gasol - champion
Schroeder- loser
Drummond - loser
Harrell - loser


I wouldn’t call Dwight a loser. Yes it blew up in his first stint with the Lakers, but there is something to be said about leading your team to an NBA finals. Something those other guys could never even dream of...
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:29 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
LGFan wrote:
We went from High Character winning players in D Green, Rondo, McGee to 3 individual "ME" first characters who have not won anything in this league


Last season’s role players:
Green - champion
Rondo - champion
McGee - champion
Dwight - loser

This season’s role players:
Gasol - champion
Schroeder- loser
Drummond - loser
Harrell - loser


I wouldn’t call Dwight a loser. Yes it blew up in his first stint with the Lakers, but there is something to be said about leading your team to an NBA finals. Something those other guys could never even dream of...


Beyond that, he's played great in Philly.

This was just a sours grape comment to me.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:31 am    Post subject:

Not focusing on defense. Not making repeating a viable goal. Whining too much about the short turnaround. Not giving a damn.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:33 am    Post subject:

Didn’t like any of these moves when they happened and got flamed for it (not so much Drummond i guess). Anyway, it sucks to be vindicated.

Gasol and Wes were the only signings i liked and Vogel only seemed to play them out of desperation. Just baffling. Not sure how much of it is Rob promising minutes to guys (which he shouldn’t be doing) or Vogel really not knowing his personnel and how best to deploy it (even more alarming).


Last edited by pjiddy on Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:36 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
LGFan wrote:
We went from High Character winning players in D Green, Rondo, McGee to 3 individual "ME" first characters who have not won anything in this league


Last season’s role players:
Green - champion
Rondo - champion
McGee - champion
Dwight - loser

This season’s role players:
Gasol - champion
Schroeder- loser
Drummond - loser
Harrell - loser


I wouldn’t call Dwight a loser. Yes it blew up in his first stint with the Lakers, but there is something to be said about leading your team to an NBA finals. Something those other guys could never even dream of...


Beyond that, he's played great in Philly.

This was just a sours grape comment to me.


For sure. Dwight was a huge mistake. DS I was okay with...Trez, Wes and Gasol huge mistakes...Could have had a pretty good player for the MLE not Trez who we didn't need...could have had Harkless instead of Wes...McGee could have been kept or dealt if needed.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:38 am    Post subject:

Gasol and Wes were minimum salary guys who outperformed the guys we overpaid and overplayed. How were they mistakes?? Who should we have signed for the minimum over them?

And If you didn’t see how they were some of our best guys, i don’t know what to tell you.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:43 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
Gasol and Wes were minimum salary guys who outperformed the guys we overpaid and overplayed. How were they mistakes?? Who should we have signed for the minimum over them?

And If you didn’t see how they were some of our best guys, i don’t know what to tell you.


Yeah we'll agree to disagree.....Harkless signed for the min with Miami so we could have had him, a defensive wing that would have more than likely done a better job during the season and the play-offs especially guarding Booker.....and Dwight was superior to Gasol for what we needed and he was had for the min...An exceptional rim protector and rebounder that moves his feet much better than Gasol.....So again agree to disagree....all good.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:23 pm    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
LGFan wrote:
We went from High Character winning players in D Green, Rondo, McGee to 3 individual "ME" first characters who have not won anything in this league


Last season’s role players:
Green - champion
Rondo - champion
McGee - champion
Dwight - loser

This season’s role players:
Gasol - champion
Schroeder- loser
Drummond - loser
Harrell - loser


I wouldn’t call Dwight a loser. Yes it blew up in his first stint with the Lakers, but there is something to be said about leading your team to an NBA finals. Something those other guys could never even dream of...


Beyond that, he's played great in Philly.

This was just a sours grape comment to me.


For sure. Dwight was a huge mistake. DS I was okay with...Trez, Wes and Gasol huge mistakes...Could have had a pretty good player for the MLE not Trez who we didn't need...could have had Harkless instead of Wes...McGee could have been kept or dealt if needed.


I thought Gasol was a good signing.

I don't see Harkless over Wes moving the needle.

McGee ... don't think we missed anything there,

If you look at MLE signings last year, it wasn't a great crop. We could have landed a decent rotation guy but I don't see anyone who would have changed the outcome of the season.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:27 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
In other words the Lakers signed great talent who don’t know how to win.

DS is a loser.

Trez was a Clipper aka loser.

Drummond has played for lottery teams so he’s a loser.


BOOM
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:34 pm    Post subject:

https://youtu.be/ue7gI5lAUPY

Tbh the first 4 minutes of this video basically describes the 2020-21 Lakers and each player’s needs and wants...

2020-21 Lakers = Toon Squad
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:42 pm    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Gasol and Wes were minimum salary guys who outperformed the guys we overpaid and overplayed. How were they mistakes?? Who should we have signed for the minimum over them?

And If you didn’t see how they were some of our best guys, i don’t know what to tell you.


Yeah we'll agree to disagree.....Harkless signed for the min with Miami so we could have had him, a defensive wing that would have more than likely done a better job during the season and the play-offs especially guarding Booker.....and Dwight was superior to Gasol for what we needed and he was had for the min...An exceptional rim protector and rebounder that moves his feet much better than Gasol.....So again agree to disagree....all good.


I've said this many times, Gasol was signed AFTER Howard said no. He wasn't signed in lieu of Howard, he was signed to makeup for Howard. In that sense I completely fail to understand how Gasol was a mistake. Not signing Howard was a mistake, sure, but Gasol was a reasonable attempt to makeup for that mistake.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:43 pm    Post subject:

AD23 wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
In other words the Lakers signed great talent who don’t know how to win.

DS is a loser.

Trez was a Clipper aka loser.

Drummond has played for lottery teams so he’s a loser.


BOOM


Bingo, bingo....

I liked all three in spurts, but not overall. Schroder really let me down, I thought he was the future...2x in covid safety protocol coupled with his contract demands, soured me on him.

Harrell also came with tons of energy but then I kept hearing his chemistry issues with the Clippers last year and felt he was not a glue guy and the fact that he can never pass the ball or catch the ball, soured me....

Drummond, was not at all what I expected. Sure, he can rebound but can't guard my grandmother, and she has been dead since 2007.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:18 pm    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
King Randle wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Gasol and Wes were minimum salary guys who outperformed the guys we overpaid and overplayed. How were they mistakes?? Who should we have signed for the minimum over them?

And If you didn’t see how they were some of our best guys, i don’t know what to tell you.


Yeah we'll agree to disagree.....Harkless signed for the min with Miami so we could have had him, a defensive wing that would have more than likely done a better job during the season and the play-offs especially guarding Booker.....and Dwight was superior to Gasol for what we needed and he was had for the min...An exceptional rim protector and rebounder that moves his feet much better than Gasol.....So again agree to disagree....all good.


I've said this many times, Gasol was signed AFTER Howard said no. He wasn't signed in lieu of Howard, he was signed to makeup for Howard. In that sense I completely fail to understand how Gasol was a mistake. Not signing Howard was a mistake, sure, but Gasol was a reasonable attempt to makeup for that mistake.


Dwight backed out of a deal with the Lakers, so that was on him.

I wanted Harkless as well, although Miami did end up dumping him. I doubt he would have helped our dreadful shooting much.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:19 pm    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
AD23 wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
In other words the Lakers signed great talent who don’t know how to win.

DS is a loser.

Trez was a Clipper aka loser.

Drummond has played for lottery teams so he’s a loser.


BOOM


Bingo, bingo....

I liked all three in spurts, but not overall. Schroder really let me down, I thought he was the future...2x in covid safety protocol coupled with his contract demands, soured me on him.

Harrell also came with tons of energy but then I kept hearing his chemistry issues with the Clippers last year and felt he was not a glue guy and the fact that he can never pass the ball or catch the ball, soured me....

Drummond, was not at all what I expected. Sure, he can rebound but can't guard my grandmother, and she has been dead since 2007.


I was shocked at how much athleticism Drummond had loss since he came into the league. His vertical was non-existent.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:24 pm    Post subject:

troy wrote:
Not focusing on defense.


Best defensive team in the league.

Vogel being unable to coach an offense + our injuries were the only "mistakes" this year.

Oh and having Drummond take Gasol's starting spot and then never giving Gasol minutes after that.

All lays at the feet of Vogel. The people that complain about our roster really don't take the time to imagine that without Schroeder and Harrell our offense would have suffered even more, and they want to imagine a world where Rondo Green and Dwight get more offensive responsibility and our situation doesn't get 10 times worse.
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