Today’s fouls
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Lakerz113
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:08 pm    Post subject: Today’s fouls

For the health of the game, not the lakers I’m sick of these type of plays.

1. Pump fake, launch into a defender that would have never hit you.

2. Running along side (lateral) to a defender and bumping into him.

3. Stopping mid dribble so the defender runs into your back.

4. Moving screens in general, but especially under the basket.
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crackadon
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:06 pm    Post subject:

I 100% agree with the OP. I can't stand these forced fouls. They totally cheapen the game to me.
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Mark10 45
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:46 pm    Post subject:

they stopped calling fouls in the post and called all this other ticky tack stuff. I think there's more physicality allowed today on post-ups without fouls, than ever. I remember this trend started with Pau in 2011 - he was allowed to be pushed in the back and never get comfortable in the post for the rest of his career - while in 2009 he could post up just fine. And it turns out Pau wasn't even washed in 2011, he still had 3 more solid years.
https://youtu.be/lAmkaUAWSJk?t=3 they stopped calling this bump at all, it never gets called at all anymore. even contact after, they don't call it on post-ups. it's part of the reason why scoring efficiency is down on post-ups.
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Lakerz113
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:56 pm    Post subject:

Mark10 45 wrote:
they stopped calling fouls in the post and called all this other ticky tack stuff. I think there's more physicality allowed today on post-ups without fouls, than ever. I remember this trend started with Pau in 2011 - he was allowed to be pushed in the back and never get comfortable in the post for the rest of his career - while in 2009 he could post up just fine. And it turns out Pau wasn't even washed in 2011, he still had 3 more solid years.
https://youtu.be/lAmkaUAWSJk?t=3 they stopped calling this bump at all, it never gets called at all anymore. even contact after, they don't call it on post-ups. it's part of the reason why scoring efficiency is down on post-ups.


Consistency is key, if a smaller driving guard can move his body into a defender, then a bigger guard should get the same call. I think it’s a stupid call, but must be done consistently.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:00 pm    Post subject:

Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel there have been a ton of free throws this postseason to seasons past. I know by watching the games it’s frustrating. Sometimes I feel like I’m not watching pure basketball. The lakers players this year didn’t help things either. Every time someone drives they would hold their head for 10 seconds after the play hoping to get a whistle.
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Mark10 45
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:09 pm    Post subject:

Lakerz113 wrote:
Mark10 45 wrote:
they stopped calling fouls in the post and called all this other ticky tack stuff. I think there's more physicality allowed today on post-ups without fouls, than ever. I remember this trend started with Pau in 2011 - he was allowed to be pushed in the back and never get comfortable in the post for the rest of his career - while in 2009 he could post up just fine. And it turns out Pau wasn't even washed in 2011, he still had 3 more solid years.
https://youtu.be/lAmkaUAWSJk?t=3 they stopped calling this bump at all, it never gets called at all anymore. even contact after, they don't call it on post-ups. it's part of the reason why scoring efficiency is down on post-ups.


Consistency is key, if a smaller driving guard can move his body into a defender, then a bigger guard should get the same call. I think it’s a stupid call, but must be done consistently.


they only call fouls on certain plays/flops. Bron gets hit just as much as Harden, but Harden basically goes limp so he can get hip checked hard. Bron just stays strong and doesn't get the call with same contact... nor does he get the call in the air, Harden gets that call on the ground. They call fouls on certain scenarios - and postups aren't one of those scenarios either.. they allow more pushing than ever.
https://youtu.be/PrJxWXbGD-s?t=51 Mchale didn't get pushed at all - it used to be the NBA's bread and butter play so they would call fouls on it... not anymore
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:29 pm    Post subject:

https://streamable.com/91dd3i

Look at this. LOOK AT THIS!!!! This is what the likes of Vlade to Manu to Harden has gotten us to. This is the sort of ish that would get your ass beat at the park
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:39 pm    Post subject:

Mark10 45 wrote:
they stopped calling fouls in the post and called all this other ticky tack stuff. I think there's more physicality allowed today on post-ups without fouls, than ever. I remember this trend started with Pau in 2011 - he was allowed to be pushed in the back and never get comfortable in the post for the rest of his career - while in 2009 he could post up just fine. And it turns out Pau wasn't even washed in 2011, he still had 3 more solid years.
https://youtu.be/lAmkaUAWSJk?t=3 they stopped calling this bump at all, it never gets called at all anymore. even contact after, they don't call it on post-ups. it's part of the reason why scoring efficiency is down on post-ups.


My view - and it is just my view - is the game has become way too perimeter friendly.

Part of it goes to the fact zone defenses allow more bodies in the paint, meanwhile perimeter players have gotten better at the 3. To top it off, as you say, refs tend to allow alot more in the paint than at the perimeter than memory recalls (even back when players were really physical). It is many, many times ticky-tack stuff called above the FT line, and at times feels like anything goes the closer you get to the restricted area.

If this wasnt enough, it was once considered extremely foolish to try and stick some 6'2 guy on a 6'10 guy and ask him to guard. Well, no more with switching, especially if the 6'10 or taller guy likes to play near the hoop. I've noticed officials allow smaller players to be alot more physical in doing things like get positioning or fronting...example, Reggie Jackson last night on, I believe, Gobert at one point. The player (Jackson) literally is straining themselves, using elbows, their head, banging into the larger player to create this awkward positioning. If the larger player tried anything like that on the smaller, they call a foul. It's maddening to watch as its so inconsistent. To make matters worse, I've seen that where they lean so much into the bigger player and try that *locking arm* nonsense and the taller player tries to move away, smaller player "falls" or "gets dragged" (because they are leaning completely into the taller player), and its an offensive foul call on the taller player.

The officiating in the NBA, imo, is the worst its ever been.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:47 pm    Post subject:

Mark10 45 wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
Mark10 45 wrote:
they stopped calling fouls in the post and called all this other ticky tack stuff. I think there's more physicality allowed today on post-ups without fouls, than ever. I remember this trend started with Pau in 2011 - he was allowed to be pushed in the back and never get comfortable in the post for the rest of his career - while in 2009 he could post up just fine. And it turns out Pau wasn't even washed in 2011, he still had 3 more solid years.
https://youtu.be/lAmkaUAWSJk?t=3 they stopped calling this bump at all, it never gets called at all anymore. even contact after, they don't call it on post-ups. it's part of the reason why scoring efficiency is down on post-ups.


Consistency is key, if a smaller driving guard can move his body into a defender, then a bigger guard should get the same call. I think it’s a stupid call, but must be done consistently.


they only call fouls on certain plays/flops. Bron gets hit just as much as Harden, but Harden basically goes limp so he can get hip checked hard. Bron just stays strong and doesn't get the call with same contact... nor does he get the call in the air, Harden gets that call on the ground. They call fouls on certain scenarios - and postups aren't one of those scenarios either.. they allow more pushing than ever.
https://youtu.be/PrJxWXbGD-s?t=51 Mchale didn't get pushed at all - it used to be the NBA's bread and butter play so they would call fouls on it... not anymore


Yep - they reward acting. Like anything in life, the more you do it, the better you are at it. Hence why when certain players try to draw fouls the same way refs are like "nah dude, not a good performance, too obvi, move along" but with Harden its like "hey, yea, that looked pretty good man! 2 FT's for you!"
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:54 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
https://streamable.com/91dd3i

Look at this. LOOK AT THIS!!!! This is what the likes of Vlade to Manu to Harden has gotten us to. This is the sort of ish that would get your ass beat at the park


LMAO - shoulda been an offensive foul there. He spreads his legs as he comes down attempting to cause contact with defensive player, then swings his hip/butt out to create even more.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:05 pm    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
Mark10 45 wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
Mark10 45 wrote:
they stopped calling fouls in the post and called all this other ticky tack stuff. I think there's more physicality allowed today on post-ups without fouls, than ever. I remember this trend started with Pau in 2011 - he was allowed to be pushed in the back and never get comfortable in the post for the rest of his career - while in 2009 he could post up just fine. And it turns out Pau wasn't even washed in 2011, he still had 3 more solid years.
https://youtu.be/lAmkaUAWSJk?t=3 they stopped calling this bump at all, it never gets called at all anymore. even contact after, they don't call it on post-ups. it's part of the reason why scoring efficiency is down on post-ups.


Consistency is key, if a smaller driving guard can move his body into a defender, then a bigger guard should get the same call. I think it’s a stupid call, but must be done consistently.


they only call fouls on certain plays/flops. Bron gets hit just as much as Harden, but Harden basically goes limp so he can get hip checked hard. Bron just stays strong and doesn't get the call with same contact... nor does he get the call in the air, Harden gets that call on the ground. They call fouls on certain scenarios - and postups aren't one of those scenarios either.. they allow more pushing than ever.
https://youtu.be/PrJxWXbGD-s?t=51 Mchale didn't get pushed at all - it used to be the NBA's bread and butter play so they would call fouls on it... not anymore


Yep - they reward acting. Like anything in life, the more you do it, the better you are at it. Hence why when certain players try to draw fouls the same way refs are like "nah dude, not a good performance, too obvi, move along" but with Harden its like "hey, yea, that looked pretty good man! 2 FT's for you!"




And yea as you said in your other post - it’s the perimeter friendliness - everything is to make the game more perimeter friendly.. They can’t call 100 fouls so they let stuff go in other facets and call every single bump on the perimeter. We know there’s an emphasis on it, but there has to be a ridiculous emphasis or else they wouldn’t call the same flops every game.. they know Harden and other players flop on drives but they keep calling it just because they don’t want any impediment to this open, skill game at all.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:08 pm    Post subject:

I was watching the women’s NCAA tourney back in March/April and it’s so refreshing to see a game actual flow without a ton of free throw stoppages. The players don’t seem to look to draw fouls as much as nba players, nor do the refs call the ticky tack stuff. I wish the nba would clean it up. All those swing through type fouls should just not be called. Players will stop doing it if it results in a turnover more often than not. Just like flagrants are judgement calls these drawn fouls should be judgement calls too and refs can decide to just not blow the whistle.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:09 pm    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
https://streamable.com/91dd3i

Look at this. LOOK AT THIS!!!! This is what the likes of Vlade to Manu to Harden has gotten us to. This is the sort of ish that would get your ass beat at the park


LMAO - shoulda been an offensive foul there. He spreads his legs as he comes down attempting to cause contact with defensive player, then swings his hip/butt out to create even more.


Reggie Miller used to do that all the time, and kick his leg out. He actually kicked some players in the groin doing that.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:24 pm    Post subject:

Bring back the 80s rule book and men like Earl Strom to officiate.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:24 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
https://streamable.com/91dd3i

Look at this. LOOK AT THIS!!!! This is what the likes of Vlade to Manu to Harden has gotten us to. This is the sort of ish that would get your ass beat at the park

Things like that should get the player a one game ban without pay and he should have to make a 100k donation to some charity or school. After 5 of these 50% of the players salary should go into public education for the remainder of his career.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:00 am    Post subject:

They need to adjust the rules. It has become ridiculous and some games are borderline unwatchable tbh.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:55 am    Post subject:

Yup, it's getting ridiculous. Stop rewarding players for this kind of (bleep)
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Today’s fouls

Lakerz113 wrote:
For the health of the game, not the lakers I’m sick of these type of plays.

1. Pump fake, launch into a defender that would have never hit you.

2. Running along side (lateral) to a defender and bumping into him.

3. Stopping mid dribble so the defender runs into your back.

4. Moving screens in general, but especially under the basket.


Me too.

I'm also sick of everyone hitting the deck so as to show how they were fouled. It's just silly. Also sick of people leaping in front of people to "take the charge".

I'm also sick of the 3.

(Is there any other sport, btw, that gives more points in that fashion...like throwing a touchdown pass from a certain distance is 9 points, or hitting a home run to the longest part of the field is 2 runs.)
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Lakerz113
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:36 pm    Post subject:

These moving screens under the basket suck. If it’s not going to be called the lakers should do it more.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:56 pm    Post subject:

Chris Paul is the master of #2.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Today’s fouls

Lakerz113 wrote:
For the health of the game, not the lakers I’m sick of these type of plays.

1. Pump fake, launch into a defender that would have never hit you.

2. Running along side (lateral) to a defender and bumping into him.

3. Stopping mid dribble so the defender runs into your back.

4. Moving screens in general, but especially under the basket.


So...
1) Basically James Harden's career, also a favorite of Steph and way too many shooters
2) LeBron's go to move for 15-whatever years
3) Every ball-handler
4) Nearly every single possession

The NBA's arbitrary interpretation of the rule book makes it really difficult for me to watch a full non-Lakers game. I like lists so here's a few of the biggest issues I see, also with some specific players:

1) The refs, not the rules, determines play as much as anything else
2) Essentially every part of Chris Paul's grimy version of basketball, especially on defense
3) Pretty much James Harden's career
4) Blake Griffin under the basket is disgusting to watch. I'll throw in that game like 10 years ago where he elbowed Pau in the head and slammed it. Seeing that on SportsCenter for a week combined with the lack of any real talk about how dirty it was in sports media was unreal
5) The amount of pushing that goes on every play, front and back court alike
6) The amount of three point attempts is boring and bad basketball. For example, I randomly took last night's Jazz-Clippers game and compared it to last game of the Kobe-Shaq 3-peat. Last night, the Jazz and Clippers shot exactly 80 3s, whereas the Lakers-Net shot 28. Not saying it isn't or can't be exciting, but I feel more and more that what Steph Curry has done to the NBA with these crazy 3s has been a disaster. It's a shame that a healthy Lakers couldn't go back-to-back as a non-3 point dependent team. That might have started to turn the tide back to some balance.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Today’s fouls

[quote="ElliotTheFan"]
Lakerz113 wrote:


1) The refs, not the rules, determines play as much as anything else


True that.

Another thing that bugs me is that people can take a thousand steps driving to the basket, but if a player standing with the ball starts their dribble with a slight shuffle, moving maybe a millimeter, they get called for a travel.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:57 pm    Post subject:

Plot twist.

Quote:
The league wants to limit ability of players - including crafty stars like James Harden, Luka Doncic and Trae Young - to lean backwards and sideways, for example - to initiate contact and get to the free throw line.

The NBA has shared a video compilation of player examples with the 30 teams that outlines a number of motions deemed unnatural that used to draw fouls. The NBA and Competition Committee will drill down on specific plays with the league's GM's next week to target examples that'll be recommended to owners to vote to eliminate next season, sources said.

There's growing belief that these many of these maneuvers are contributing to a game that's slanting too much of an advantage toward the offense. While the concentration of these issues is often focused on star players getting much more usage and exposure with the ball, the league sees this as a universal problem throughout lineups and rosters - not only an issue for star players.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31632458/nba-competition-committee-exploring-rule-changes-restrict-unnatural-jump-shot-motions-sources-say
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Lakerz113
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:07 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Plot twist.

Quote:
The league wants to limit ability of players - including crafty stars like James Harden, Luka Doncic and Trae Young - to lean backwards and sideways, for example - to initiate contact and get to the free throw line.

The NBA has shared a video compilation of player examples with the 30 teams that outlines a number of motions deemed unnatural that used to draw fouls. The NBA and Competition Committee will drill down on specific plays with the league's GM's next week to target examples that'll be recommended to owners to vote to eliminate next season, sources said.

There's growing belief that these many of these maneuvers are contributing to a game that's slanting too much of an advantage toward the offense. While the concentration of these issues is often focused on star players getting much more usage and exposure with the ball, the league sees this as a universal problem throughout lineups and rosters - not only an issue for star players.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31632458/nba-competition-committee-exploring-rule-changes-restrict-unnatural-jump-shot-motions-sources-say


Glad other feel the same as me. It’s getting out of hand.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:17 pm    Post subject:

They should start calling those as offensive fouls...thats best way to end this mencace.
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