Recipe this Off-Season: Sign Some $%#@ SHOOTERS
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:25 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Shooting is the way to go imo


Like I said, they did this last season, and technically the year prior, and both times, the team struggled to shoot just average at an NBA level at different spots of the floor.

The solution isn't shooting unless the player can do something else, other than shoot.


Just because we were unlucky to target Daniels or Cook... doesn't mean there aren't multifaceted shooters out there. I agree we shouldn't sign one dimensional players but we shouldn't give up on the principle of identifying those who can offer more than just spot up shooting.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:27 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Shooting is the way to go imo


Like I said, they did this last season, and technically the year prior, and both times, the team struggled to shoot just average at an NBA level at different spots of the floor.

The solution isn't shooting unless the player can do something else, other than shoot.


Just because we were unlucky to target Daniels or Cook... doesn't mean there aren't multifaceted shooters out there. I agree we shouldn't sign one dimensional players but we shouldn't give up on the principle of identifying those who can offer more than just spot up shooting.


Those are the ones LAL can't afford.
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:34 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Shooting is the way to go imo


Like I said, they did this last season, and technically the year prior, and both times, the team struggled to shoot just average at an NBA level at different spots of the floor.

The solution isn't shooting unless the player can do something else, other than shoot.


Just because we were unlucky to target Daniels or Cook... doesn't mean there aren't multifaceted shooters out there. I agree we shouldn't sign one dimensional players but we shouldn't give up on the principle of identifying those who can offer more than just spot up shooting.


Those are the ones LAL can't afford.


The other day we listed a bunch of players who were at or close to the minimum... Payne, Brunson, Grayson Allen, Graham, Bruce Brown, Austin Rivers, Shamet... I'm not saying it would be easy... but there's gotta be some players out there who would jump at the chance to play with AD and LBJ... The endorsements that would come with helping another title run would help negate the losses from signing with us.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:36 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Outside of AD and LBJ not being 100% which is absolutely necessary for a championship, none of the guys outside of Matthews and maybe KCP, draw the gravity to actually open up driving lanes.


Danny Green can draw that gravity regardless if he’s off and also play excellent team defense. Lakers prioritize role players that does not fit knowing ultimately when it matters, the offense will revolve around Lebron and AD. The emergence of THT is the only silver lining this season.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:39 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Shooting is the way to go imo


Like I said, they did this last season, and technically the year prior, and both times, the team struggled to shoot just average at an NBA level at different spots of the floor.

The solution isn't shooting unless the player can do something else, other than shoot.


Just because we were unlucky to target Daniels or Cook... doesn't mean there aren't multifaceted shooters out there. I agree we shouldn't sign one dimensional players but we shouldn't give up on the principle of identifying those who can offer more than just spot up shooting.


Those are the ones LAL can't afford.


The other day we listed a bunch of players who were at or close to the minimum... Payne, Brunson, Grayson Allen, Graham, Bruce Brown, Austin Rivers, Shamet... I'm not saying it would be easy... but there's gotta be some players out there who would jump at the chance to play with AD and LBJ... The endorsements that would come with helping another title run would help negate the losses from signing with us.


This aren't minimum players. That's the problem. It's the assumption that they are.
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pjiddy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:41 am    Post subject:

I'm confident Rob will sign a Quinn Cook/Troy Daniels this offseason to "address" the shooting.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:43 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Shooting is the way to go imo


Like I said, they did this last season, and technically the year prior, and both times, the team struggled to shoot just average at an NBA level at different spots of the floor.

The solution isn't shooting unless the player can do something else, other than shoot.


Just because we were unlucky to target Daniels or Cook... doesn't mean there aren't multifaceted shooters out there. I agree we shouldn't sign one dimensional players but we shouldn't give up on the principle of identifying those who can offer more than just spot up shooting.


Those are the ones LAL can't afford.


The other day we listed a bunch of players who were at or close to the minimum... Payne, Brunson, Grayson Allen, Graham, Bruce Brown, Austin Rivers, Shamet... I'm not saying it would be easy... but there's gotta be some players out there who would jump at the chance to play with AD and LBJ... The endorsements that would come with helping another title run would help negate the losses from signing with us.


Every year , there’s always those bargain players (some of them have those down year) whos willing to take a paycut to be part of the winning team if they see a role. What we need to do is identify those players that are fit with Lebron / AD and execute .
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:43 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
I'm confident Rob will sign a Quinn Cook/Troy Daniels this offseason to "address" the shooting.


He did in McLemore. Didn't work. These are the types of guys, that don't actually work. Best not to go this direction again. Cook didn't do much in the playoffs. Daniels was pretty much let go mid season.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:47 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Shooting is the way to go imo


Like I said, they did this last season, and technically the year prior, and both times, the team struggled to shoot just average at an NBA level at different spots of the floor.

The solution isn't shooting unless the player can do something else, other than shoot.


Just because we were unlucky to target Daniels or Cook... doesn't mean there aren't multifaceted shooters out there. I agree we shouldn't sign one dimensional players but we shouldn't give up on the principle of identifying those who can offer more than just spot up shooting.


Those are the ones LAL can't afford.


The other day we listed a bunch of players who were at or close to the minimum... Payne, Brunson, Grayson Allen, Graham, Bruce Brown, Austin Rivers, Shamet... I'm not saying it would be easy... but there's gotta be some players out there who would jump at the chance to play with AD and LBJ... The endorsements that would come with helping another title run would help negate the losses from signing with us.


This aren't minimum players. That's the problem. It's the assumption that they are.


True but Clips got Reggie Jackson and Batum for the minimum . I believed there are some vets who already made the bank who willing to accept minimum if they see a role for us. And that’s what we should be chasing, the type of players who are willing to sacrifice to be part of a championship team. We got Rondo and Dwight last year. Wes and Gasol this year.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:52 am    Post subject:

Quote:

True but Clips got Reggie Jackson and Batum for the minimum . I believed there are some vets who already made the bank who willing to accept minimum if they see a role for us. And that’s what we should be chasing, the type of players who are willing to sacrifice to be part of a championship team. We got Rondo and Dwight last year. Wes and Gasol this year.


This usually happens to all other teams, not LAL. Different practice habits. Different coaches.

The difference here is, Reggie and Batum are known for more things or other things than shooting. THAT's what I'm looking for. At least Batum can defend/pass and switch defensively. Reggie is a slasher first that's just on a hot streak.

THAT is the difference.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:56 am    Post subject:

Every year some general manager finds a gem among underutilized bench players... G-leaguers... ignored undrafted players... Euroleague players.

I'm not saying it would be easy... but those above mentioned players were discovered at the minimum before they blossomed. Or it can be a "washed up" player like Melo or Blake who finds one or two more years of life.

I think those who think outside the box will be rewarded.

Those who just say Schroder because at least it won't be terrible with him... won't be.

The goal here is a title... not a decent playoff run. Something unforeseen needs to happen.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:59 am    Post subject:

First of all, I just think "get a shooter" has been tried and hasn't worked for 2 years.

Second of all, every shooter that's a Laker that can't defend, doesn't actually help the Lakers.

This is more about finding guys that do other things on the floor that impact the game, even if they aren't shooting well. This isn't about other GMs, what they find, etc.

There's also the misconception that players are so willing to accept minimum contracts, especially after rookie contracts or several years in the league.

None of these one-dimensional shooters work. LAL's path to the championship wasn't even perimeter shooting, it was defense first, points in the paint, rebounding, shooting last. It's probably a better idea to stick to players that can do those things and actually stay on the floor and be a positive impact.
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:10 am    Post subject:

That path to the championship shouldn't have worked but it did. That's why I felt like it made us overconfident that old school basketball would be the path to victory. I'm not saying it can never win... but it is less likely in this era to win than teams with a bunch of 40% three point shooters. Just like the Pistons won in 2004 but I'm not sure it was a reproducible formula and they had some unicorn like players on their team.

I'd guess in a computer simulation that the Clippers or Nets would more likely win more often because of their shooting.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:38 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
First of all, I just think "get a shooter" has been tried and hasn't worked for 2 years.

Second of all, every shooter that's a Laker that can't defend, doesn't actually help the Lakers.

This is more about finding guys that do other things on the floor that impact the game, even if they aren't shooting well. This isn't about other GMs, what they find, etc.

There's also the misconception that players are so willing to accept minimum contracts, especially after rookie contracts or several years in the league.

None of these one-dimensional shooters work. LAL's path to the championship wasn't even perimeter shooting, it was defense first, points in the paint, rebounding, shooting last. It's probably a better idea to stick to players that can do those things and actually stay on the floor and be a positive impact.


DS,KCP,Wes,BMac,Gasol actually are all "shooters" technically. I think shooters being effective shooters also boils down to coaching, role, offensive scheme and team chemistry.

Again, the Lakers did have the #1 DEFRTG in the league so what they did collectively is in line with going for a championship. It is a balance - if you take away the D you better upgrade alot in O or the result is you get FURTHER AWAY from a championship. As you said, getting those types of players comes at a price the Lakers probably can't pay.

I think the Lakers approach right now is the correct one but does obviously need some tweaks to offensive capability. Paraphrasing what Utah coach said to Donovan Mitchell last night "Do it on D, it'll happen on O" . The inside trax thing had a lot of good comments on when the shots don't fall btw -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDu_WK9zkdM


Last edited by Laker_Jocker on Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:50 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
That path to the championship shouldn't have worked but it did. That's why I felt like it made us overconfident that old school basketball would be the path to victory. I'm not saying it can never win... but it is less likely in this era to win than teams with a bunch of 40% three point shooters. Just like the Pistons won in 2004 but I'm not sure it was a reproducible formula and they had some unicorn like players on their team.

I'd guess in a computer simulation that the Clippers or Nets would more likely win more often because of their shooting.


I disagree. I don't think it's about old school basketball either. Otherwise, if LAL is going to change philosophies, they should probably trade LBJ for that impactful shooting ability.

The Pistons back then didn't even have 2 franchise players offensively. That's why they're a one hit wonder.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:51 am    Post subject:

Laker_Jocker wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
First of all, I just think "get a shooter" has been tried and hasn't worked for 2 years.

Second of all, every shooter that's a Laker that can't defend, doesn't actually help the Lakers.

This is more about finding guys that do other things on the floor that impact the game, even if they aren't shooting well. This isn't about other GMs, what they find, etc.

There's also the misconception that players are so willing to accept minimum contracts, especially after rookie contracts or several years in the league.

None of these one-dimensional shooters work. LAL's path to the championship wasn't even perimeter shooting, it was defense first, points in the paint, rebounding, shooting last. It's probably a better idea to stick to players that can do those things and actually stay on the floor and be a positive impact.


DS,KCP,Wes,BMac,Gasol actually are all "shooters" technically. I think shooters being effective shooters also boils down to coaching, role, offensive scheme and team chemistry.

Again, the Lakers did have the #1 DEFRTG in the league so what they did collectively is in line with going for a championship. It is a balance - if you take away the D you better upgrade alot in O or the result is you get FURTHER AWAY from a championship. As you said, getting those types of players comes at a price the Lakers probably can't pay.

Paraphrasing what Utah coach said to Donovan Mitchell last night "Do it on D, it'll happen on O" . The inside trax thing had a lot of good comments on when the shots don't fall btw -_ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDu_WK9zkdM


Outside of being healthy, I mentioned the other problem was actual spacing. That's something that Danny Green provided, even if he didn't hit shots.

I can only say that of Matthews now.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:00 pm    Post subject:

We can’t have players that are completely useless on one end if the floor. Outside of KCP most are good on defense but horrible on offense (in terms of spacing that Lebron/AD require)

IMO…find good shooters that are average on defense (idk where or how) but to me that results in a better overall team than ours right now (great defense…trash offense)

Because our 2 main guys do their best damage at the rim so we need players that compliment that. If we had KD/Kyrie then maybe it’s more important to have solid defensive role players.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:20 pm    Post subject:

The Lakers need to change their approach and get more shooters. The NBA has turned into an offensive league just like the NFL has turned into a passing league. Their current style isn't going to cut it that much longer.
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LakerSD
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:25 pm    Post subject:

Ryan1973 wrote:
The Lakers need to change their approach and get more shooters. The NBA has turned into an offensive league just like the NFL has turned into a passing league. Their current style isn't going to cut it that much longer.


The issue is some of these guys they have had are considered shooters...just something happens in the spotlight.

Even if they got Seth Curry, watch him shoot well below career average.
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Mark10 45
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:26 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
I'm confident Rob will sign a Quinn Cook/Troy Daniels this offseason to "address" the shooting.


no shade to Rob. but we gotta address the shooting for real.
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:37 pm    Post subject:

We should go back and try to sign Svi. He might take the minimum and he's the kind of player who we might be able to unlock with the gravity of AD and LeBron.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:40 pm    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
We should go back and try to sign Svi. He might take the minimum and he's the kind of player who we might be able to unlock with the gravity of AD and LeBron.


I wouldn't be against that. But he's one of those fringe rotation shooters. We need cemented rotation shooters. But he'd be a good signing, because he could potentially be like a late career Korver for us - spot minutes and impactful. maybe
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:42 pm    Post subject:

Mark10 45 wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
We should go back and try to sign Svi. He might take the minimum and he's the kind of player who we might be able to unlock with the gravity of AD and LeBron.


I wouldn't be against that. But he's one of those fringe rotation shooters. We need cemented rotation shooters. But he'd be a good signing, because he could potentially be like a late career Korver for us - spot minutes and impactful. maybe


If nothing else, more useful than Cacok, Kostas or Dudley.

But Svi had more than shooting... people would just look at his wingspan and give up on him.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:58 pm    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Mark10 45 wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
We should go back and try to sign Svi. He might take the minimum and he's the kind of player who we might be able to unlock with the gravity of AD and LeBron.


I wouldn't be against that. But he's one of those fringe rotation shooters. We need cemented rotation shooters. But he'd be a good signing, because he could potentially be like a late career Korver for us - spot minutes and impactful. maybe


If nothing else, more useful than Cacok, Kostas or Dudley.

But Svi had more than shooting... people would just look at his wingspan and give up on him.


yea maybe he can dribble a little. But I think 95% of his value in this league will come from shooting.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:06 pm    Post subject:

Mark10 45 wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Mark10 45 wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
We should go back and try to sign Svi. He might take the minimum and he's the kind of player who we might be able to unlock with the gravity of AD and LeBron.


I wouldn't be against that. But he's one of those fringe rotation shooters. We need cemented rotation shooters. But he'd be a good signing, because he could potentially be like a late career Korver for us - spot minutes and impactful. maybe


If nothing else, more useful than Cacok, Kostas or Dudley.

But Svi had more than shooting... people would just look at his wingspan and give up on him.


yea maybe he can dribble a little. But I think 95% of his value in this league will come from shooting.


Svi can actually do a little bit more. Have not seen much of him recently but he was with us, he was trying to showcase those other skills. Unfortunately we needed him to jack up those 3 ball and let others do the playmaking. I think he can be an asset but I dunno if can afford him because he will most likely looking to get paid.
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