Dinwiddie for Kuzma discussion between the Lakers and Nets
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joeblow
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:30 am    Post subject: Dinwiddie for Kuzma discussion between the Lakers and Nets

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And the Nets could engage in sign-and-trade talks using Dinwiddie as bait. Reportedly, the Nets were engaged in talks at the deadline with the Warriors that would have sent the point guard to Golden State for Kelly Oubre and to Los Angeles and the Lakers for Kyle Kuzma.


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governator
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:32 am    Post subject:

Mathwise, Dinwiddie for Kuz S&T means no DS... this means we what, easier to fit people under hard cap aka use MLE?
or can S&T DS for cap relief?
any expert?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:35 am    Post subject:

^^^ Under your scenario, we could sign and trade DS for another spare part.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:36 am    Post subject:

Why would the Nets want Kyle Kuzma? Other team role players >
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:37 am    Post subject:

joeblow wrote:
^^^ Under your scenario, we could sign and trade DS for another spare part.


would that let us use MLE?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:03 am    Post subject:

^^^ Sure.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:08 am    Post subject:

The “Big Three” extensions could max out at $252.8 million (Harden); $234.5 million (Durant) and $217.0 million (Irving).

LOL
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:24 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Mathwise, Dinwiddie for Kuz S&T means no DS... this means we what, easier to fit people under hard cap aka use MLE?
or can S&T DS for cap relief?
any expert?


Dinwiddie opted out of a 12.3m option so you gotta assume he’s looking for annual pay bump along with securing more guaranteed money of course. Hypothetically let’s make it a favorable yet plausible contract of 3yrs 45m and since it would be a S&t to us, we wound be hard capped while the Nets get Kuz and they wouldn’t be, which is what they prefer since they ain’t looking to get hard capped with all that salary they gave on their books.

Under this scenario, we are now hard capped at 143m (the cap apron).
Bron 41.2m
AD 35.4m
Dinwiddie S&t’d 15m
Kcp 13m
Marc 2.7m
Deng cap hit 5m
= 112.3m

Now that figure is without incomplete roster charges and under the assumption Trez opts out, we waive McKinnie’s non-guaranteed deal and trade our 2021 1st for a future pick.

So we are looking at about 30m in potential cap space till we hit the cap apron. If you include Schro’s cap hold or potential annual in a new S&t deal of say 18m annually along with the full MLE of 9.5m, you’re looking at team salary that is right up against the cap apron.

Now incorporate back in the incomplete roster charges along with the cap hold of our 2021 1st pick and you can see that we most likely let Schro walk for nothing in return if we decide to hard cap ourselves with a Dinwiddie S&t and decide to use the full MLE as well.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Dinwiddie for Kuzma discussion between the Lakers and Nets

joeblow wrote:
Quote:
And the Nets could engage in sign-and-trade talks using Dinwiddie as bait. Reportedly, the Nets were engaged in talks at the deadline with the Warriors that would have sent the point guard to Golden State for Kelly Oubre and to Los Angeles and the Lakers for Kyle Kuzma.


Linky


The Kuzma rumor makes no sense. The team was already short on health this year and trading one of your few guys who can defend the wing for a player who is out the year and heading into free agency makes zero sense. Likewise, receiving a player in S&T mean you're hard capped. Way too many things fall off the table for that to be the approach for a player of SDs level.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:12 am    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
governator wrote:
Mathwise, Dinwiddie for Kuz S&T means no DS... this means we what, easier to fit people under hard cap aka use MLE?
or can S&T DS for cap relief?
any expert?


Dinwiddie opted out of a 12.3m option so you gotta assume he’s looking for annual pay bump along with securing more guaranteed money of course. Hypothetically let’s make it a favorable yet plausible contract of 3yrs 45m and since it would be a S&t to us, we wound be hard capped while the Nets get Kuz and they wouldn’t be, which is what they prefer since they ain’t looking to get hard capped with all that salary they gave on their books.

Under this scenario, we are now hard capped at 143m (the cap apron).
Bron 41.2m
AD 35.4m
Dinwiddie S&t’d 15m
Kcp 13m
Marc 2.7m
Deng cap hit 5m
= 112.3m

Now that figure is without incomplete roster charges and under the assumption Trez opts out, we waive McKinnie’s non-guaranteed deal and trade our 2021 1st for a future pick.

So we are looking at about 30m in potential cap space till we hit the cap apron. If you include Schro’s cap hold or potential annual in a new S&t deal of say 18m annually along with the full MLE of 9.5m, you’re looking at team salary that is right up against the cap apron.

Now incorporate back in the incomplete roster charges along with the cap hold of our 2021 1st pick and you can see that we most likely let Schro walk for nothing in return if we decide to hard cap ourselves with a Dinwiddie S&t and decide to use the full MLE as well.


Let me get this, those 5 players + Deng leaves us with:
MLE
$30m cap (for 7-8 players) so what's that, another $15m and 6 mins? or is the MLE part of the $30m?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:21 am    Post subject:

When I first read the OPs thread title I thought something broke regarding a trade but then I realized that the author is just speculating but I wouldn’t be surprised if the guy we get is Dinwiddie especially considering his ties to Los Angeles.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:33 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
governator wrote:
Mathwise, Dinwiddie for Kuz S&T means no DS... this means we what, easier to fit people under hard cap aka use MLE?
or can S&T DS for cap relief?
any expert?


Dinwiddie opted out of a 12.3m option so you gotta assume he’s looking for annual pay bump along with securing more guaranteed money of course. Hypothetically let’s make it a favorable yet plausible contract of 3yrs 45m and since it would be a S&t to us, we wound be hard capped while the Nets get Kuz and they wouldn’t be, which is what they prefer since they ain’t looking to get hard capped with all that salary they gave on their books.

Under this scenario, we are now hard capped at 143m (the cap apron).
Bron 41.2m
AD 35.4m
Dinwiddie S&t’d 15m
Kcp 13m
Marc 2.7m
Deng cap hit 5m
= 112.3m

Now that figure is without incomplete roster charges and under the assumption Trez opts out, we waive McKinnie’s non-guaranteed deal and trade our 2021 1st for a future pick.

So we are looking at about 30m in potential cap space till we hit the cap apron. If you include Schro’s cap hold or potential annual in a new S&t deal of say 18m annually along with the full MLE of 9.5m, you’re looking at team salary that is right up against the cap apron.

Now incorporate back in the incomplete roster charges along with the cap hold of our 2021 1st pick and you can see that we most likely let Schro walk for nothing in return if we decide to hard cap ourselves with a Dinwiddie S&t and decide to use the full MLE as well.


Let me get this, those 5 players + Deng leaves us with:
MLE
$30m cap (for 7-8 players) so what's that, another $15m and 6 mins? or is the MLE part of the $30m?


My bad...Apologies for being a dimwittie and leaving out the critical details...

Let’s assume we trade for Kuz for a S&t Dinwiddie, renounce all our free agents and nonguaranteed deals, move our 2021 1st for a future pick, watch Trez opt out & earmark the full MLE 9.5m to use on only 1 player and not divvy it between 2.
So we have 6 players (Bron, AD, Dinwiddie, Kcp, Marc, MLE player)...and at a minimum need to incorporate 7 min vet deals to start the season with a 13 man roster:

Bron 41.2m
AD 35.4m
Dinwiddie S&t’d 15m
Kcp 13m
MLE player 9.5m
Marc 2.7m
Deng cap hit 5m
7 vet min deals 10m
= 133.4m

As you can see, we’re roughly 9.7m away from the cap apron and can’t breach it no matter what since we’re a hard capped team via the S&t for Dinwiddie along with the use of the full MLE.

That allows us to fit Trez in if he decides to opt in. It also allows us to bring back either THT or AC on roughly a full MLE valued deal.

Btw, I used that 15m per estimation on Dinwiddie’s new deal from this source:

Quote:

“I think Spencer will get high teens (annually),” one NBA executive told HoopsHype. “Dinwiddie seems like he’s leaving,” another NBA executive predicted when speaking with HoopsHype. “He’ll have a high salary number. I don’t see him staying regardless. I don’t get the sense he wants to be there.”

“Coming off that injury, I’d be concerned about giving him in the neighborhood of $80 million over four years,” an NBA executive told HoopsHype. “Dinwiddie is worth $14-17 million depending on his health,” another executive said. – via Michael Scotto @ HoopsHype
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:38 am    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
governator wrote:
Mathwise, Dinwiddie for Kuz S&T means no DS... this means we what, easier to fit people under hard cap aka use MLE?
or can S&T DS for cap relief?
any expert?


Dinwiddie opted out of a 12.3m option so you gotta assume he’s looking for annual pay bump along with securing more guaranteed money of course. Hypothetically let’s make it a favorable yet plausible contract of 3yrs 45m and since it would be a S&t to us, we wound be hard capped while the Nets get Kuz and they wouldn’t be, which is what they prefer since they ain’t looking to get hard capped with all that salary they gave on their books.

Under this scenario, we are now hard capped at 143m (the cap apron).
Bron 41.2m
AD 35.4m
Dinwiddie S&t’d 15m
Kcp 13m
Marc 2.7m
Deng cap hit 5m
= 112.3m

Now that figure is without incomplete roster charges and under the assumption Trez opts out, we waive McKinnie’s non-guaranteed deal and trade our 2021 1st for a future pick.

So we are looking at about 30m in potential cap space till we hit the cap apron. If you include Schro’s cap hold or potential annual in a new S&t deal of say 18m annually along with the full MLE of 9.5m, you’re looking at team salary that is right up against the cap apron.

Now incorporate back in the incomplete roster charges along with the cap hold of our 2021 1st pick and you can see that we most likely let Schro walk for nothing in return if we decide to hard cap ourselves with a Dinwiddie S&t and decide to use the full MLE as well.

Gross. If Dinwiddie opted out with this deal on the table, he's a total prick. Opt in, take the trade, and sign an extension. What an (bleep) move.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:42 am    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
governator wrote:
Mathwise, Dinwiddie for Kuz S&T means no DS... this means we what, easier to fit people under hard cap aka use MLE?
or can S&T DS for cap relief?
any expert?


Dinwiddie opted out of a 12.3m option so you gotta assume he’s looking for annual pay bump along with securing more guaranteed money of course. Hypothetically let’s make it a favorable yet plausible contract of 3yrs 45m and since it would be a S&t to us, we wound be hard capped while the Nets get Kuz and they wouldn’t be, which is what they prefer since they ain’t looking to get hard capped with all that salary they gave on their books.

Under this scenario, we are now hard capped at 143m (the cap apron).
Bron 41.2m
AD 35.4m
Dinwiddie S&t’d 15m
Kcp 13m
Marc 2.7m
Deng cap hit 5m
= 112.3m

Now that figure is without incomplete roster charges and under the assumption Trez opts out, we waive McKinnie’s non-guaranteed deal and trade our 2021 1st for a future pick.

So we are looking at about 30m in potential cap space till we hit the cap apron. If you include Schro’s cap hold or potential annual in a new S&t deal of say 18m annually along with the full MLE of 9.5m, you’re looking at team salary that is right up against the cap apron.

Now incorporate back in the incomplete roster charges along with the cap hold of our 2021 1st pick and you can see that we most likely let Schro walk for nothing in return if we decide to hard cap ourselves with a Dinwiddie S&t and decide to use the full MLE as well.


30 million is going to be tight if you want to re-sign AC, THT, and use the full MLE. Assuming we can get some bargains backup C with the minimum, is the full MLE to fill the gaping holes at backup PF and backup SF?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:05 am    Post subject:

I'm not sure how I would feel about this. On one hand, I think Spencer a lot more than Schroder. On the other, we lose a wing player in Kuzma. Trading Kuzma is not the problem, it's just...WE REALLY NEED wing players. BADLY.

Too often we got our asses beat by wing scorers when we always had guys like KCP, Matthews or Caruso on them because they would just shoot over them. Not only this trade doesn't solve that problem, but only adds even more small guards.

We need to get bigger. If we can use Schroder as a sign and trade bait for something like that, then I wouldn't mind this.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:10 am    Post subject:

See Dinwiddie mentioned every so often, why?

I admit I know little about him. Looking at his stats are not very impressive. For his mpg and attempts he seems to be a poor shooter. Not impressive from 2pt and about 31% from 3pt the last 3 yrs.

So what is the appeal? Great defender? Great chemistry guy? Why trade for him on this roster? Especially for a Swiss Army knife type player like Kuzma.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:13 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
When I first read the OPs thread title I thought something broke regarding a trade but then I realized that the author is just speculating but I wouldn’t be surprised if the guy we get is Dinwiddie especially considering his ties to Los Angeles.

How is it solely speculation when the article reports that the Lakers and Nets literally discussed this specific trade?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:16 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
See Dinwiddie mentioned every so often, why?

I admit I know little about him. Looking at his stats are not very impressive. For his mpg and attempts he seems to be a poor shooter. Not impressive from 2pt and about 31% from 3pt the last 3 yrs.

So what is the appeal? Great defender? Great chemistry guy? Why trade for him on this roster? Especially for a Swiss Army knife type player like Kuzma.


Kuzma is anything but a Swiss Army knife. This is not the rookie stats kuzma
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:19 am    Post subject:

joeblow wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
When I first read the OPs thread title I thought something broke regarding a trade but then I realized that the author is just speculating but I wouldn’t be surprised if the guy we get is Dinwiddie especially considering his ties to Los Angeles.

How is it solely speculation when the article reports that the Lakers and Nets literally discussed this specific trade?


I was talking about something breaking regarding a trade now.. I know that both teams already discussed a Kuzma and Dinwiddie trade during the trade deadline but the thread title got me thinking that both teams were discussing something now.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:31 am    Post subject:

Could they S&T him for DS?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:36 am    Post subject:

joeblow wrote:
^^^ Under your scenario, we could sign and trade DS for another spare part.


Depends.

If we do a sign and trade for DS, we are hard capped at $143 million.

Whether we would have enough cap space to do a sign and trade for DS would depend if Trez opts in and how much we pay THT and Caruso, assuming them come back.

If we receive a sign and trade player, things become very complicated, very fast, as we saw last year
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:43 am    Post subject:

If Diwindie is willing to lead the bench,
I do this trade assuming SD is fully recovered from the injury.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:05 pm    Post subject:

I keep forgetting that’s a real name..Dinwiddie
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:25 pm    Post subject:

If that is the case, we could do some thing different with Schroder, or regulate him back to the bench where he belongs.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:25 pm    Post subject:

fansincemagic wrote:
Could they S&T him for DS?


TLDR: Yes

But remember we will be hard capped bringing in a S&t player so depending on what Dinwiddie’s new deal comes in as once it hits our books, it’s the follow up moves that matter (ie keeping THT, Caruso, McKinnie, 2021 1st, whether Trez opts in, will we use the full MLE).

One thing to understand is that if we trade for a S&t player (ie Dinwiddie, Lowry, Zo to name a few), we will not be able to use the miniMLE (~6m). If we are to use an MLE, it has to be the full MLE (~9.5m) or we can choose but to use one at all. So let’s say we S&t for Dinwiddie and we do all these follow up moves to round out the roster, not using the MLE in the process...and let’s say after using cap acrobats to stay under the apron we are left with roughly 6m in space, we will be unable to use the miniMLE. Instead we can use part of the full MLE and if we shed enough salary something during the season, we will be able to use the remaining amount of that full MLE as long as we still remain under the apron.

Then we come to the Nets side and I just can’t see them accepting being hard capped via bringing in a S&t’d Schro. So if we were to trade for Dinwiddie using Schro, I feel that the Nets will try to tag in a 3rd team to drop Schro’s deal onto.

Lastly assuming we only have guaranteed money on the books, this is how the books would look if we executed a double S&t for Dinwiddie using Schro:
Bron, AD, Dinwiddie @ 15m per, Kcp, Kuz, Marc, 2021 1st = 127m in team salary. Leaving 16m in wiggle room.

If all we do is add 6 vet mins to get to a roster mandate of 13 minimum to begin the season, we would be about 6m from breaching the apron. So technically we could use part of the full MLE (about 6m of the allotted 9.5m) to sign a 14th player. Other configurations can also allow a resigning of THT and/or AC or even Trez opting in. But the point is that it will be a number crunching game if we bring a S&t player like Dinwiddie.
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