Where would the Lakers be if Lebron didn't choose to come here?
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:29 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
It would have been different for sure. Maybe built more organically lol.

Current situation is get all of Klutch clients together.


There are three ways to acquire talent: draft, trades and free agency.

All methods have pros and cons. No method is inherently better.

The rafters of Staples are filled with jerseys of retired players we acquired through all three methods.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:55 pm    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
We would be struggling to make the playoffs in a year Kobe tragically died instead of winning the championship.


Right?

I just shake my head at so many Laker fans complaining about LeBron when he delivered in the biggest way possible at the time we needed it most. And they're still not satisfied?

Oh, both of our top guys (superstars by the way, 2 of them! One who is arguably a top 5 player all-time and the other who can affect the game on both ends of the floor more than any other player in the league) go into this year's playoffs hobbled and we don't win it all back-to-back (which only a handful of teams have ever done) and so now we're trash?

I swear some people don't deserve this franchise.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:13 am    Post subject:

BI - max
DLo - max
Randle/Clarkson/Zubac - max
everybody else stays for the min

most likely compete for the play in, but we could've seen a AD-Zion-Jrue Pelicans
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:21 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
It would have been different for sure. Maybe built more organically lol.

Current situation is get all of Klutch clients together.


There are three ways to acquire talent: draft, trades and free agency.

All methods have pros and cons. No method is inherently better.

The rafters of Staples are filled with jerseys of retired players we acquired through all three methods.


I wasn’t bashing the method. Just pointing out the differences.

Nets and Knicks have copied the Lakers template.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:20 am    Post subject:

I think we would have kawhi

Ball, Clarkson, Ingram, Leonard, Randle, Hart, Nance. Prob have traded for PG. basically we’re the clippers
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:47 am    Post subject:

a2j1m wrote:
I think we would have kawhi

Ball, Clarkson, Ingram, Leonard, Randle, Hart, Nance. Prob have traded for PG. basically we’re the clippers


100%. Kawhi was going to go to the LA team that didn’t have Lebron on it...
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:48 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
a2j1m wrote:
I think we would have kawhi

Ball, Clarkson, Ingram, Leonard, Randle, Hart, Nance. Prob have traded for PG. basically we’re the clippers


100%. Kawhi was going to go to the LA team that didn’t have Lebron on it...


So zero rings.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:06 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
a2j1m wrote:
I think we would have kawhi

Ball, Clarkson, Ingram, Leonard, Randle, Hart, Nance. Prob have traded for PG. basically we’re the clippers


100%. Kawhi was going to go to the LA team that didn’t have Lebron on it...


So zero rings.


As of right now yes, but it’s one of those things where we are never going to know.

Does Butler say yes to Kawhi if it’s the Lakers? How much of the young talent is traded vs. kept and for who?

Lebron/Klutch delivered, but there are too many variables to know what would have happened with Kawhi to Lakers situation.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:15 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
a2j1m wrote:
I think we would have kawhi

Ball, Clarkson, Ingram, Leonard, Randle, Hart, Nance. Prob have traded for PG. basically we’re the clippers


100%. Kawhi was going to go to the LA team that didn’t have Lebron on it...


So zero rings.


As of right now yes, but it’s one of those things where we are never going to know.

Does Butler say yes to Kawhi if it’s the Lakers? How much of the young talent is traded vs. kept and for who?

Lebron/Klutch delivered, but there are too many variables to know what would have happened with Kawhi to Lakers situation.


Variables vs. fact.

There is no way we keep the YUTES, sign Kawhi, PG, Butler.

Look at how the Clips got PG by trading away their future picks and SGA/Gallo (who has done well in the playoffs).
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:13 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
a2j1m wrote:
I think we would have kawhi

Ball, Clarkson, Ingram, Leonard, Randle, Hart, Nance. Prob have traded for PG. basically we’re the clippers


100%. Kawhi was going to go to the LA team that didn’t have Lebron on it...


So zero rings.


As of right now yes, but it’s one of those things where we are never going to know.

Does Butler say yes to Kawhi if it’s the Lakers? How much of the young talent is traded vs. kept and for who?

Lebron/Klutch delivered, but there are too many variables to know what would have happened with Kawhi to Lakers situation.


Variables vs. fact.

There is no way we keep the YUTES, sign Kawhi, PG, Butler.

Look at how the Clips got PG by trading away their future picks and SGA/Gallo (who has done well in the playoffs).


It’s not a fact that they would have to get rid of all the Yutes. That’s an assumption you are making.

There are a lot of variables that are in play and we don’t know for sure how the roster would have been constructed tbh.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:16 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
a2j1m wrote:
I think we would have kawhi

Ball, Clarkson, Ingram, Leonard, Randle, Hart, Nance. Prob have traded for PG. basically we’re the clippers


100%. Kawhi was going to go to the LA team that didn’t have Lebron on it...


So zero rings.


As of right now yes, but it’s one of those things where we are never going to know.

Does Butler say yes to Kawhi if it’s the Lakers? How much of the young talent is traded vs. kept and for who?

Lebron/Klutch delivered, but there are too many variables to know what would have happened with Kawhi to Lakers situation.


Variables vs. fact.

There is no way we keep the YUTES, sign Kawhi, PG, Butler.

Look at how the Clips got PG by trading away their future picks and SGA/Gallo (who has done well in the playoffs).


It’s not a fact that they would have to get rid of all the Yutes. That’s an assumption you are making.

There are a lot of variables that are in play and we don’t know for sure how the roster would have been constructed tbh.


How are you keeping the guys you mentioned AND Kawhi, PG ,and possibly Jimmy?

Quote:
Ball, Clarkson, Ingram, Leonard, Randle, Hart, Nance. Prob have traded for PG. basically we’re the clippers


You even said we'd have to trade for PG. With the extensions they received, they would likely be gone, or the good ones. BI/Jules all got close to 20m or over, and JC got an 11-12m/year extension too.

And if you're trading for PG13, likely close to same package as we had to for AD.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:22 am    Post subject:

When did I say they would have had to trade for PG? That was a situation for the Clippers at the time.

Where did I say that the team would be Kawhi, Butler AND PG?

All I said was there are many variables in play. If Butler says yes as an FA, they don’t need to trade for PG and then who knows if they keep all or some of the baby Lakers.

Like I said, there are variables that don’t make this exactly how it worked out for the Clippers. The Clippers were forced to trade for PG because others (KD and Butler being examples) told Kawhi no in regards to joining him on the Clippers.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:33 am    Post subject:

Again, the fact is we won a ring. Nothing will ever change that.

Could we have won a ring with PG/Kawhi last year? Maybe, but they did blow a 3-1 lead too in the multiverse.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:43 am    Post subject:

In this hypothetical, it would also mean LeBron would've gone somewhere else like Boston or Brooklyn, maybe even the Clippers, and then would have recruited Anthony Davis to force a trade there where that team would've been the favorite to win it all.

It's crazy for fans to fantasize about this alternate universe when our reality was we just came off winning the chip, were favored to win it again this year, and still currently had the highest ranked defense in the league. We just got injured. Just like the other favorite to win it all (Brooklyn) did, injuries knocked them out of the playoffs. S*** happens.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:49 am    Post subject:

Don't you know this already?

According to LG logic

A lotto winner is automatically the superior financial planner because they won.

They have more money... therefore they made the best decisions.

All that matters is that you achieved the goal... not how you got there.

So get out your scratchers folks... liquidate those Roth IRAs and 401Ks

Because the only thing that matters is if you are rich... not how you got there.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:12 pm    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Don't you know this already?

According to LG logic

A lotto winner is automatically the superior financial planner because they won.

They have more money... therefore they made the best decisions.

All that matters is that you achieved the goal... not how you got there.

So get out your scratchers folks... liquidate those Roth IRAs and 401Ks

Because the only thing that matters is if you are rich... not how you got there.


Yes. Because that's what the Lakers did in putting together a contending team with AD/LBJ, and finding the precisely right guys to surround them on vet deals (Rondo, Dwight for example).

You act as if it was just pure luck that the team together and won a ring. There was a purposeful design of the team. 30 out of 30 teams would kill to have a core of LBJ/AD.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:18 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Again, the fact is we won a ring. Nothing will ever change that.

Could we have won a ring with PG/Kawhi last year? Maybe, but they did blow a 3-1 lead too in the multiverse.


I think you are projecting what you think on to me without reading what I’m saying.

1. I never said we would win a ring last year with Kawhi and PG. I didn’t even say that would be the duo.

2. I said Lebron/Klutch delivered.

3. I said Kawhi was going to the LA team that didn’t have Lebron.

For whatever reason, you seemed to conflate that into a well “we wouldn’t have a ring” stance to which I simply responded that too many variables are at play to even make such a statement and say it’s a fact.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:56 pm    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Don't you know this already?

According to LG logic

A lotto winner is automatically the superior financial planner because they won.

They have more money... therefore they made the best decisions.

All that matters is that you achieved the goal... not how you got there.

So get out your scratchers folks... liquidate those Roth IRAs and 401Ks

Because the only thing that matters is if you are rich... not how you got there.




I don't think the lottery analogy -- which is a situation based 100% on luck -- fits the Lakers situation.

To me, it's fairly simple.

The Lakers put together a strategy around Lebron (trade all the young guys) and won a ring.

Some people think that the Lakers would have had more success by pursuing a different strategy where they kept all the young guys.

We can see how the first strategy plans out; we can only guess how the alternative strategy would have played out.


Last edited by activeverb on Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:06 pm    Post subject:

Nobody knows because it's hypothetical. But crazy as it sounds some fans here would give up that 2020 championship.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:18 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
a2j1m wrote:
I think we would have kawhi

Ball, Clarkson, Ingram, Leonard, Randle, Hart, Nance. Prob have traded for PG. basically we’re the clippers


100%. Kawhi was going to go to the LA team that didn’t have Lebron on it...


So zero rings.


As of right now yes, but it’s one of those things where we are never going to know.

Does Butler say yes to Kawhi if it’s the Lakers? How much of the young talent is traded vs. kept and for who?

Lebron/Klutch delivered, but there are too many variables to know what would have happened with Kawhi to Lakers situation.


If Kawhi and Butler came in free agency then the team would look like this

Lonzo Ball
Jimmy Butler
Kawhi Leonard
Julius Randle
Thomas Bryant

Ingram, Zubac, Rondo, Kuzma, McGee(or Dwight) off the bench.

Does that team win the chip last year?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:46 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
a2j1m wrote:
I think we would have kawhi

Ball, Clarkson, Ingram, Leonard, Randle, Hart, Nance. Prob have traded for PG. basically we’re the clippers


100%. Kawhi was going to go to the LA team that didn’t have Lebron on it...


So zero rings.


As of right now yes, but it’s one of those things where we are never going to know.

Does Butler say yes to Kawhi if it’s the Lakers? How much of the young talent is traded vs. kept and for who?

Lebron/Klutch delivered, but there are too many variables to know what would have happened with Kawhi to Lakers situation.


If Kawhi and Butler came in free agency then the team would look like this

Lonzo Ball - $8.8m
Jimmy Butler - $32.7m
Kawhi Leonard - $32.7m
Julius Randle - $18m
Thomas Bryant - $8m

Ingram - $7.3m
Zubac - $6.5m
Rondo - $2.6m
Kuzma - $2m
Dwight - $2.6m

Total $121.2m

Does that team win the chip last year?


That was the salaries in 2020, plus prob couple mins, doable
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:07 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
a2j1m wrote:
I think we would have kawhi

Ball, Clarkson, Ingram, Leonard, Randle, Hart, Nance. Prob have traded for PG. basically we’re the clippers


100%. Kawhi was going to go to the LA team that didn’t have Lebron on it...


So zero rings.


As of right now yes, but it’s one of those things where we are never going to know.

Does Butler say yes to Kawhi if it’s the Lakers? How much of the young talent is traded vs. kept and for who?

Lebron/Klutch delivered, but there are too many variables to know what would have happened with Kawhi to Lakers situation.


If Kawhi and Butler came in free agency then the team would look like this

Lonzo Ball
Jimmy Butler
Kawhi Leonard
Julius Randle
Thomas Bryant

Ingram, Zubac, Rondo, Kuzma, McGee(or Dwight) off the bench.

Does that team win the chip last year?


Once again, how do you know that’s the team? What if they use (high probability) some of the baby Lakers for someone else?

The argument isn’t about would the 2019-20 Lakers have won the chip. It’s that Kawhi would have chosen the Lakers and then there are many variables...all the way from Vogel as coach to which other players join the Lakers?

What if 3-1 maestro Doc is not coaching the Clippers? Do they choke?

Again, a lot of variables. Look at the playoffs...narratives took a 180 due to injuries.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:15 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
MJST wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
a2j1m wrote:
I think we would have kawhi

Ball, Clarkson, Ingram, Leonard, Randle, Hart, Nance. Prob have traded for PG. basically we’re the clippers


100%. Kawhi was going to go to the LA team that didn’t have Lebron on it...


So zero rings.


As of right now yes, but it’s one of those things where we are never going to know.

Does Butler say yes to Kawhi if it’s the Lakers? How much of the young talent is traded vs. kept and for who?

Lebron/Klutch delivered, but there are too many variables to know what would have happened with Kawhi to Lakers situation.


If Kawhi and Butler came in free agency then the team would look like this

Lonzo Ball - $8.8m
Jimmy Butler - $32.7m
Kawhi Leonard - $32.7m
Julius Randle - $18m
Thomas Bryant - $8m

Ingram - $7.3m
Zubac - $6.5m
Rondo - $2.6m
Kuzma - $2m
Dwight - $2.6m

Total $121.2m

Does that team win the chip last year?


That was the salaries in 2020, plus prob couple mins, doable

tough to say if they win. KL laid an egg of epic proportions. Scoreless or close to in 4th qts etc. Certainly butler could have carried him but we don't know what heat look like. fortunately reality gave us an actual ring and when moderately healthy were in the hunt for #2.

Lets not forget. A Kawai led team was frightened of facing an injured lakers tream in the first round.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:32 am    Post subject:

Quote:
100. Jordan Clarkson, Utah Jazz

(Previous rank: NR)

The NBA’s reigning Sixth Man of the Year is coming off a superb year where he averaged 18.4 points while leading the league in bench scoring. Clarkson’s production as a reserve played a big role in the Jazz earning the No. 1 seed in the West last season. He will be a key to Utah's title hopes again this season. — Wilton Jackson

Quote:
99. Ivica Zubac, Los Angeles Clippers

(Previous rank: NR)

Outside of a three-point shot, Zubac checks every box necessary for a modern big. On offense, he's an expert offensive rebounder and a sturdy screener with soft hands as a roll man. On defense, he's smart as a rotating big and he won’t get bullied by the game’s biggest behemoths. Zubac is perhaps the least flashy player on our Top 100 list, but don’t let that detract from his value in Los Angeles. — Michael Shapiro

Quote:
98. Larry Nance Jr., Portland Trail Blazers

(Previous rank: NR)

Sturdy forwards with quick hands, springy knees, shifty feet and the understanding of how to apply those physical traits into any defensive system are highly coveted throughout the NBA. Nance Jr. succeeded on that front with the Cavaliers last season. This season, the Blazers will appreciate him as much as, or more than, his former team did. — Michael Pina

Quote:
76. Lonzo Ball, Chicago Bulls

(Previous rank: NR)

There’s always been some dissonance between Lonzo-as-concept and the role that best suits him, as he joins his third team in five seasons. Ball has made massive strides as a jump shooter, making a career-best 37.8% of threes on more than eight attempts per game last season. While still streaky, that threat allows him to play an unorthodox combo role: He’s limited playing off the dribble, but more dangerous functioning alongside ball-dominant creators. The Bulls are gambling that Ball will help unlock their new-look roster, where he’ll support Zach LaVine and DeMar DeRozan, playing directly to his strengths. — Jeremy Woo

Quote:
61. D’Angelo Russell, Minnesota Timberwolves

(Previous year rank: 46)

Russell has come down a bit from the high of his 2019 All-Star season with the Nets, particularly after injuries zapped much of his effectiveness in his most recent campaign with the Wolves. Russell’s partnership with Karl-Anthony Towns is very promising, but defense and efficiency remain question marks for him moving forward. — Rohan Nadkarni

Quote:
41. Julius Randle, New York Knicks

(Previous rank: NR)

Randle was left off last season’s Top 100, so consider this a mea culpa after an undeniably impressive, career-defining campaign. He led the league in minutes played, made second-team All-NBA, got the Knicks back to the postseason and racked up double-doubles as the focal point of the team. For all Randle’s flaws—he’s not a shot-blocker, relies far too much on his strong hand, and was wholly erased by the Hawks in the playoffs—he’s come a long way. If he can replicate his shooting splits, another All-Star appearance is within reach. — Jeremy Woo

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33. Brandon Ingram, New Orleans Pelicans

(Previous rank: 36)

Two highly effective years in New Orleans have proven Ingram to be one of the more efficient volume shooters in the league, capable of creating his shot against anyone, and with a borderline unguardable jumper at his size. Still just 24, he’ll have to expand his game in other ways to get his team into the playoffs: he’s made progress as a playmaker, but hasn’t fully bought in on defense, where his length could be much more impactful. Regardless, Ingram is in the upper echelon of jumper-centric wing scorers, with room left to grow in all facets. — Jeremy Woo


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:34 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
We would be struggling to make the playoffs in a year Kobe tragically died instead of winning the championship.

Sums it all up.
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