Are players like Simmons, Anthony Davis, and Zion out of touch?
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troy
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:33 am    Post subject: Are players like Simmons, Anthony Davis, and Zion out of touch?

It is incredibly hard to become a professional athlete. Even harder to stay a professional athlete. I get that injuries happen. But it bothers me that so many NBA players (eg the ones referenced) come to these games dressed like clowns, fancy sunglasses, smiling, laughing and not a care in the world, and making millions upon millions of dollars per year and not playing, nor does it seem like they care. To me, these guys don't respect the game.

I remember AD doing this; Lakers losing and he's over in his trendy clothes, laughing it up, checking out his cell phone. I think about old school players; guys that didn't make these modern big time salaries but respected the game enough to either play hurt or at least present themselves as not enjoying the aspect of not playing.

What makes these guys think that they're entitled to be in the NBA? Don't they understand that for everyone of them, there are thousands of dudes sweating their asses off, praying just get a chance to play professional ball?

On the other hand, these "hurt" players are entitled to dress and carry themselves however they want. And their injuries are legitimate. It's just the visuals bother the hell out of me.

Are they out of touch, or am I?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:39 am    Post subject:

It's a different generation.

Same can be said about LeBron and how all the players are friends.

The times they are a changin
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:47 am    Post subject:

Come on, the AD hate is getting out of control here

His situation is nothing like Simmons (is completely healthy but won't play) or Zion's (sitting an entire year)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:50 am    Post subject:

Zion wants to play, but the Pels won't let him.
AD's been hurt and literally couldn't play.
Simmons has mental / off the court issues that he needs to resolve.

3 entirely different situations.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:58 am    Post subject:

This was known of Ben since college.

Zion, no. He got drafted to a place where he didn't want to be.

AD actually got a championship.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:00 am    Post subject:

Simmons is actually suing for past salary while he chose not to play

He should be sued for being a bum.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:03 am    Post subject:

Some of the issues you are talking about are a function of the coaching staff and/or the front office. I have a sense that Vogel didn't have the authority to take on some of the players, or maybe his critics are right that he lost control on his own. It's hard to say based on what we know. Anyway, can you imagine how Phil Jackson or Greg Popovich would react?

Let's not have illusions about "kids these days." There were plenty of these guys in the old days. Allen Iverson. Dennis Rodman (especially in San Antonio). There were others, but those are the two who jump to mind.

As a fan, I suppose I would prefer the optics of Davis looking glum and serious on the bench. I don't remember him using a cell phone on the bench. I'd have a problem with that, even if the rules allow it for an inactive player. If it happened, I put that one the coaching staff and front office.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Are players like Simmons, Anthony Davis, and Zion out of touch?

troy wrote:
It is incredibly hard to become a professional athlete. Even harder to stay a professional athlete. I get that injuries happen. But it bothers me that so many NBA players (eg the ones referenced) come to these games dressed like clowns, fancy sunglasses, smiling, laughing and not a care in the world, and making millions upon millions of dollars per year and not playing, nor does it seem like they care. To me, these guys don't respect the game.

I remember AD doing this; Lakers losing and he's over in his trendy clothes, laughing it up, checking out his cell phone. I think about old school players; guys that didn't make these modern big time salaries but respected the game enough to either play hurt or at least present themselves as not enjoying the aspect of not playing.

What makes these guys think that they're entitled to be in the NBA? Don't they understand that for everyone of them, there are thousands of dudes sweating their asses off, praying just get a chance to play professional ball?

On the other hand, these "hurt" players are entitled to dress and carry themselves however they want. And their injuries are legitimate. It's just the visuals bother the hell out of me.

Are they out of touch, or am I?


They aren’t the same at all.

Zion never stayed in shape. He only got worse and he’s barely ever played.

You can’t compare Simmons to that at all as Simmons played, Simmons won the sixers a lot of games while Joel sat out for being hurt, out of shape, stomach issues, feeling sick etc. Hell in game 7 the only sixer that was a positive was actually Simmons as Joel was a negative on the court that game and series, and he had 8 turnovers that game yet threw Ben under the bus when Ben never did it to him. When Marc held Joel scoreless, Ben went to the press and took up for Joel. When Joel couldn’t finish the first round he took up for Joel. When Joel was swept without Ben he took up for him. He never once called Joel out for playing his way into shape or missing games. So it did f with him what Joel did and we can all say he’s weak but it seemed to f him up in the head.

AD won a title. Like it or not people have selective memories, but AD literally went out there with a torn groin and tried to help his team win game 6 when he could not move or play. He still tried. AD this past year wasn’t even at fault for his injuries. Lebrun through a 200 plus pound man to the ground and into ADs knee to make it buckle. AD didn’t walk down the court and get hurt, he wasn’t out of shape, Bron hurt him. The other one was a play that happens in basketball, he was beating on Rudy and went caught a messed up lob and landed wrong and rolled it totally over. But the fact is unlike them AD won. Unlike them AD got hurt playing basketball. And when it came for the season on the line, AD even when he knew he should not be playing still suited up when they only thing he could do was hurt himself worse because he wanted to help his team.

It’s like grapes to oranges to apples.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:12 am    Post subject:

AD is injured but dude actually worked hard to come back from injuries. Like that PHX series, he probably shouldn't have played at all but he tried and finally he succumbed to the injury. Being injury prone is different than Zion (who looks out of shape) and Simmons (who knows what's happening). AD isn't in that same group at all, especially b/c he's already a champ and a multi year 1st team all NBA player.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:14 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Some of the issues you are talking about are a function of the coaching staff and/or the front office. I have a sense that Vogel didn't have the authority to take on some of the players, or maybe his critics are right that he lost control on his own. It's hard to say based on what we know. Anyway, can you imagine how Phil Jackson or Greg Popovich would react?

Let's not have illusions about "kids these days." There were plenty of these guys in the old days. Allen Iverson. Dennis Rodman (especially in San Antonio). There were others, but those are the two who jump to mind.

As a fan, I suppose I would prefer the optics of Davis looking glum and serious on the bench. I don't remember him using a cell phone on the bench. I'd have a problem with that, even if the rules allow it for an inactive player. If it happened, I put that one the coaching staff and front office.

Yeah but kids these days are making 30 million dollars having done nothing that impressive in the pros. It's different, and probably natural for a 24 year old set for life and his future kids' lives plus their friends and families's to be fairly unmotivated to hurt their bodies, something they can't buy or replace, if the gain is marginal or merely in others' eyes.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:21 am    Post subject:

I know the team didn't do well but don't call a player injury prone when LeBron shoves the guy into ADs knees.. lol
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:29 am    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
I know the team didn't do well but don't call a player injury prone when LeBron shoves the guy into ADs knees.. lol


That is just the most recent of a long line of injuries. He isn’t purposely doing or not doing something that results in injury, his body isn’t built for this game.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:38 am    Post subject:

focus wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Some of the issues you are talking about are a function of the coaching staff and/or the front office. I have a sense that Vogel didn't have the authority to take on some of the players, or maybe his critics are right that he lost control on his own. It's hard to say based on what we know. Anyway, can you imagine how Phil Jackson or Greg Popovich would react?

Let's not have illusions about "kids these days." There were plenty of these guys in the old days. Allen Iverson. Dennis Rodman (especially in San Antonio). There were others, but those are the two who jump to mind.

As a fan, I suppose I would prefer the optics of Davis looking glum and serious on the bench. I don't remember him using a cell phone on the bench. I'd have a problem with that, even if the rules allow it for an inactive player. If it happened, I put that one the coaching staff and front office.

Yeah but kids these days are making 30 million dollars having done nothing that impressive in the pros. It's different, and probably natural for a 24 year old set for life and his future kids' lives plus their friends and families's to be fairly unmotivated to hurt their bodies, something they can't buy or replace, if the gain is marginal or merely in others' eyes.


You can say that for a handful of players, but that's not what I see from kids like Trae Young, Jayson Tatum, or Luka Doncic. But in the old days, we had guys like Joe Barely Carroll. Have times really changed that much, or are we worrying about the kids getting on our grass?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:45 am    Post subject:

I wouldn’t put ad in that group. Though his game doesn’t fit the hype at least he has at some point contributed.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:35 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
I know the team didn't do well but don't call a player injury prone when LeBron shoves the guy into ADs knees.. lol


That is just the most recent of a long line of injuries. He isn’t purposely doing or not doing something that results in injury, his body isn’t built for this game.


I don't think he ever mentally grew into his frame.
He wanted to be a pt guard
Body dysmorphia.. is that it.. He doesn't see himself as a bigman
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:51 am    Post subject:

Klutch advises both Simmons and AD... wouldn't be shocked if they eventually represent Zion.

As I've said many times. Klutch is good at looking out for their players...

Good for the players... not so much for the teams.

So if you are rooting for players maximizing their salaries... Go Klutch!

If you are rooting for the teams... meh... maybe not so much.

I'm not saying I'm rooting for us to go back to the dark ages where players were paid like slaves while the owners took all their money... but I do miss the part where they played more for the love of the game.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: Are players like Simmons, Anthony Davis, and Zion out of touch?

troy wrote:
It is incredibly hard to become a professional athlete. Even harder to stay a professional athlete. I get that injuries happen. But it bothers me that so many NBA players (eg the ones referenced) come to these games dressed like clowns, fancy sunglasses, smiling, laughing and not a care in the world, and making millions upon millions of dollars per year and not playing, nor does it seem like they care. To me, these guys don't respect the game.

I remember AD doing this; Lakers losing and he's over in his trendy clothes, laughing it up, checking out his cell phone. I think about old school players; guys that didn't make these modern big time salaries but respected the game enough to either play hurt or at least present themselves as not enjoying the aspect of not playing.

What makes these guys think that they're entitled to be in the NBA? Don't they understand that for everyone of them, there are thousands of dudes sweating their asses off, praying just get a chance to play professional ball?

On the other hand, these "hurt" players are entitled to dress and carry themselves however they want. And their injuries are legitimate. It's just the visuals bother the hell out of me.

Are they out of touch, or am I?


I think a lot of of this is just "things were tougher in my day" memories.

NBA players have always made a lot of money. 25 years, the average NBA salary was $2.5 million -- meaning an NBA player made more in one year than the average American did in his lifetime.

NBA players have always dressed flamboyantly -- see Walt Frazier.

The NBA has always been filled with flamboyant personalities who sometimes didn't seem to care or respect the game -- Joe ("Barely Cares") Carroll, Dennis Rodman, Allen Iverson, World B. Free, Dwight Howard, Darryl Dawkins, Shawn Kemp, Stephon Marbury and on and on.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:31 pm    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
I know the team didn't do well but don't call a player injury prone when LeBron shoves the guy into ADs knees.. lol


That is just the most recent of a long line of injuries. He isn’t purposely doing or not doing something that results in injury, his body isn’t built for this game.


I don't think he ever mentally grew into his frame.
He wanted to be a pt guard
Body dysmorphia.. is that it.. He doesn't see himself as a bigman


That could be it. You can see it is on his mind, when he comes down in traffic he is looking down to see where everybody’s feet are. I’ve had ankle issues since high school and I feel for him.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:04 pm    Post subject:

AD was balling when he was healthy. Don't group him with the other two. Zion got paid millions to stay in shape and he couldn't even do it. I don't know what's up with Simmons but I'm glad the Lakers couldn't get him.

AD, when healthy, is still a top 5 player in the league. The key is when healthy. How he dresses is up to him. What's wrong with a multi-millionaire dressing like a multi-millionaire.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:13 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
focus wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Some of the issues you are talking about are a function of the coaching staff and/or the front office. I have a sense that Vogel didn't have the authority to take on some of the players, or maybe his critics are right that he lost control on his own. It's hard to say based on what we know. Anyway, can you imagine how Phil Jackson or Greg Popovich would react?

Let's not have illusions about "kids these days." There were plenty of these guys in the old days. Allen Iverson. Dennis Rodman (especially in San Antonio). There were others, but those are the two who jump to mind.

As a fan, I suppose I would prefer the optics of Davis looking glum and serious on the bench. I don't remember him using a cell phone on the bench. I'd have a problem with that, even if the rules allow it for an inactive player. If it happened, I put that one the coaching staff and front office.

Yeah but kids these days are making 30 million dollars having done nothing that impressive in the pros. It's different, and probably natural for a 24 year old set for life and his future kids' lives plus their friends and families's to be fairly unmotivated to hurt their bodies, something they can't buy or replace, if the gain is marginal or merely in others' eyes.


You can say that for a handful of players, but that's not what I see from kids like Trae Young, Jayson Tatum, or Luka Doncic. But in the old days, we had guys like Joe Barely Carroll. Have times really changed that much, or are we worrying about the kids getting on our grass?

I did not mean (though it definitely reads that way, sorry) that all young players are doing this, just pointing out that the sums of money are incredible, significantly different than in the old days (even relative to their time - the comparison is the rich players to average folks); and that I find it likely that the set-for-life aspect has a not-surprising impact on those who just like the game and don't need it. Trae, Jayson, Luka, and many others seem to love it for itself (and of course they've all done impressive things as pros).
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:01 pm    Post subject:

AD doesn't belong in this conversation.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:14 pm    Post subject:

focus wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
focus wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Some of the issues you are talking about are a function of the coaching staff and/or the front office. I have a sense that Vogel didn't have the authority to take on some of the players, or maybe his critics are right that he lost control on his own. It's hard to say based on what we know. Anyway, can you imagine how Phil Jackson or Greg Popovich would react?

Let's not have illusions about "kids these days." There were plenty of these guys in the old days. Allen Iverson. Dennis Rodman (especially in San Antonio). There were others, but those are the two who jump to mind.

As a fan, I suppose I would prefer the optics of Davis looking glum and serious on the bench. I don't remember him using a cell phone on the bench. I'd have a problem with that, even if the rules allow it for an inactive player. If it happened, I put that one the coaching staff and front office.

Yeah but kids these days are making 30 million dollars having done nothing that impressive in the pros. It's different, and probably natural for a 24 year old set for life and his future kids' lives plus their friends and families's to be fairly unmotivated to hurt their bodies, something they can't buy or replace, if the gain is marginal or merely in others' eyes.


You can say that for a handful of players, but that's not what I see from kids like Trae Young, Jayson Tatum, or Luka Doncic. But in the old days, we had guys like Joe Barely Carroll. Have times really changed that much, or are we worrying about the kids getting on our grass?

I did not mean (though it definitely reads that way, sorry) that all young players are doing this, just pointing out that the sums of money are incredible, significantly different than in the old days (even relative to their time - the comparison is the rich players to average folks); and that I find it likely that the set-for-life aspect has a not-surprising impact on those who just like the game and don't need it. Trae, Jayson, Luka, and many others seem to love it for itself (and of course they've all done impressive things as pros).


Sure. This is true for all pro sports.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:23 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
focus wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Some of the issues you are talking about are a function of the coaching staff and/or the front office. I have a sense that Vogel didn't have the authority to take on some of the players, or maybe his critics are right that he lost control on his own. It's hard to say based on what we know. Anyway, can you imagine how Phil Jackson or Greg Popovich would react?

Let's not have illusions about "kids these days." There were plenty of these guys in the old days. Allen Iverson. Dennis Rodman (especially in San Antonio). There were others, but those are the two who jump to mind.

As a fan, I suppose I would prefer the optics of Davis looking glum and serious on the bench. I don't remember him using a cell phone on the bench. I'd have a problem with that, even if the rules allow it for an inactive player. If it happened, I put that one the coaching staff and front office.



Yeah but kids these days are making 30 million dollars having done nothing that impressive in the pros. It's different, and probably natural for a 24 year old set for life and his future kids' lives plus their friends and families's to be fairly unmotivated to hurt their bodies, something they can't buy or replace, if the gain is marginal or merely in others' eyes.


You can say that for a handful of players, but that's not what I see from kids like Trae Young, Jayson Tatum, or Luka Doncic. But in the old days, we had guys like Joe Barely Carroll. Have times really changed that much, or are we worrying about the kids getting on our grass?


They actually called him Joe Barely Cares, his problem was effort. He did have a nice hook shot:
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:32 pm    Post subject:

The league generally views eras by decade. This is the soft, superteam, not wanna compete era. I think it’s over and we’re starting a new era now.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:35 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
I know the team didn't do well but don't call a player injury prone when LeBron shoves the guy into ADs knees.. lol


That is just the most recent of a long line of injuries. He isn’t purposely doing or not doing something that results in injury, his body isn’t built for this game.


AD had a injury history with the Pelicans. However Pelinka didn’t use that history as leverage in trade talks.
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