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venturalakersfan
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 Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I tried to downplay what a lot of others were saying about WB and his "fit" with the Lakers.
LBJ/AD is a certifiably monstrous duo. They won a chip and were 21-6 last season too with that lineup being also turned over with that summer's additions.
It seems WB plays better without LBJ (like last night when LBJ was gone).
But he's not good enough to win games at a high level right now without LBJ either (as shown by how AD/WB performed with LBJ this year).
Hoping something clicks and he can change it up, but I'm not counting on it. Rooting for him to succeed b/c I have a feeling he may be here for a few more years. |
The team has to let Westbrook change his game to fit what we have or let him sit. If we fall into the Houston/Washington trap and alter the offense to fit him then we greatly reduce the chances of winning anything.
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:03 am Post subject: |
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IF Westbrook wanted to improve his efficiency he'd stop taking threes.
Thing is we saw this story before, against San Antonio. Then we saw what Westbrook did right after that. That's the Russell Westbrook experience. You literally have to take him on a game by game by game basis because consistent is something he isn't.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Unless WB drastically improves his O ratings and advanced stats on offense, I can't see a single team (including Lakers) give him more than MLE money after his current contract. I know he's a star, but look at Melo. Look at Dwight. After teams keep giving up on you and trading you away, and each team that gets you finds the same flaws, you end up not making that max money real soon after you hit FA.
Not saying WB has reached that point, because it seems he pushed his trade to LA himself after a talk with AD/Bron. And it seems he still has "it" to be a guy that can take over games. So a team will have need for that player in FA. I just don't see a single team give him this 100M/3year deal, Yinoma. No way. The league has gone away from players like WB at the guard position just as they went away from guys like Dwight at the 5 before Dwight accepted being a role player. At some point, WB will need to do the same transition Dwight did. He may only have 1-2 more years as a starter, because the market dries up real fast in your mid-30s if you're not a guy that "fits" and wins. Paul got his deal because he fits in the modern NBA and he won enough to be a playoff impact guy (and I know Paul comes with flaws as well).
If WB wins a title or does extremely well in the playoffs, like 2-3 rounds etc. Ok. But if the Lakers don't do well, and struggle, he's not getting this big contract from anyone. Likely he opts in, and gets moved as a last year contract that would be bought out. |
How predictable is this FO though? We offered Dennis 4 years, 84m, right?
WB, with his "name," who knows what Jeannie/Rob, et. al. will say. I agree he should not get it but I won't be surprised if he did. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Unless WB drastically improves his O ratings and advanced stats on offense, I can't see a single team (including Lakers) give him more than MLE money after his current contract. I know he's a star, but look at Melo. Look at Dwight. After teams keep giving up on you and trading you away, and each team that gets you finds the same flaws, you end up not making that max money real soon after you hit FA.
Not saying WB has reached that point, because it seems he pushed his trade to LA himself after a talk with AD/Bron. And it seems he still has "it" to be a guy that can take over games. So a team will have need for that player in FA. I just don't see a single team give him this 100M/3year deal, Yinoma. No way. The league has gone away from players like WB at the guard position just as they went away from guys like Dwight at the 5 before Dwight accepted being a role player. At some point, WB will need to do the same transition Dwight did. He may only have 1-2 more years as a starter, because the market dries up real fast in your mid-30s if you're not a guy that "fits" and wins. Paul got his deal because he fits in the modern NBA and he won enough to be a playoff impact guy (and I know Paul comes with flaws as well).
If WB wins a title or does extremely well in the playoffs, like 2-3 rounds etc. Ok. But if the Lakers don't do well, and struggle, he's not getting this big contract from anyone. Likely he opts in, and gets moved as a last year contract that would be bought out. |
How predictable is this FO though? We offered Dennis 4 years, 84m, right?
WB, with his "name," who knows what Jeannie/Rob, et. al. will say. I agree he should not get it but I won't be surprised if he did. |
Unless this season turns out to be a complete fiasco (which is possible), and unless he has a major falling out with Lebron (which is also possible), I'd expect him to get extended. If we do not extend him, then that sends a signal that we do not intend to continue the Lebron window past the summer of 2023. I think that would be the correct decision, but I don't see Jeanie Buss and Rob Pelinka having the guts to do it.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Unless WB drastically improves his O ratings and advanced stats on offense, I can't see a single team (including Lakers) give him more than MLE money after his current contract. I know he's a star, but look at Melo. Look at Dwight. After teams keep giving up on you and trading you away, and each team that gets you finds the same flaws, you end up not making that max money real soon after you hit FA.
Not saying WB has reached that point, because it seems he pushed his trade to LA himself after a talk with AD/Bron. And it seems he still has "it" to be a guy that can take over games. So a team will have need for that player in FA. I just don't see a single team give him this 100M/3year deal, Yinoma. No way. The league has gone away from players like WB at the guard position just as they went away from guys like Dwight at the 5 before Dwight accepted being a role player. At some point, WB will need to do the same transition Dwight did. He may only have 1-2 more years as a starter, because the market dries up real fast in your mid-30s if you're not a guy that "fits" and wins. Paul got his deal because he fits in the modern NBA and he won enough to be a playoff impact guy (and I know Paul comes with flaws as well).
If WB wins a title or does extremely well in the playoffs, like 2-3 rounds etc. Ok. But if the Lakers don't do well, and struggle, he's not getting this big contract from anyone. Likely he opts in, and gets moved as a last year contract that would be bought out. |
How predictable is this FO though? We offered Dennis 4 years, 84m, right?
WB, with his "name," who knows what Jeannie/Rob, et. al. will say. I agree he should not get it but I won't be surprised if he did. |
Unless this season turns out to be a complete fiasco (which is possible), and unless he has a major falling out with Lebron (which is also possible), I'd expect him to get extended. If we do not extend him, then that sends a signal that we do not intend to continue the Lebron window past the summer of 2023. I think that would be the correct decision, but I don't see Jeanie Buss and Rob Pelinka having the guts to do it. |
Fair enough. |
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King Randle
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Joined: 21 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I tried to downplay what a lot of others were saying about WB and his "fit" with the Lakers.
LBJ/AD is a certifiably monstrous duo. They won a chip and were 21-6 last season too with that lineup being also turned over with that summer's additions.
It seems WB plays better without LBJ (like last night when LBJ was gone).
But he's not good enough to win games at a high level right now without LBJ either (as shown by how AD/WB performed with LBJ this year).
Hoping something clicks and he can change it up, but I'm not counting on it. Rooting for him to succeed b/c I have a feeling he may be here for a few more years. |
Yinoma the longest he can stay here would be one more year if he doesn't opt out...are you suggesting he opts out and the FO signs him long term? If he continues to play like he has most of this year, which has been below what we had expected, IMO the FO would be nuts to sign him to a multi year deal. No way are they that stupid are they? |
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I tried to downplay what a lot of others were saying about WB and his "fit" with the Lakers.
LBJ/AD is a certifiably monstrous duo. They won a chip and were 21-6 last season too with that lineup being also turned over with that summer's additions.
It seems WB plays better without LBJ (like last night when LBJ was gone).
But he's not good enough to win games at a high level right now without LBJ either (as shown by how AD/WB performed with LBJ this year).
Hoping something clicks and he can change it up, but I'm not counting on it. Rooting for him to succeed b/c I have a feeling he may be here for a few more years. |
Yinoma the longest he can stay here would be one more year if he doesn't opt out...are you suggesting he opts out and the FO signs him long term? If he continues to play like he has most of this year, which has been below what we had expected, IMO the FO would be nuts to sign him to a multi year deal. No way are they that stupid are they? |
4y/84m
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King Randle
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I tried to downplay what a lot of others were saying about WB and his "fit" with the Lakers.
LBJ/AD is a certifiably monstrous duo. They won a chip and were 21-6 last season too with that lineup being also turned over with that summer's additions.
It seems WB plays better without LBJ (like last night when LBJ was gone).
But he's not good enough to win games at a high level right now without LBJ either (as shown by how AD/WB performed with LBJ this year).
Hoping something clicks and he can change it up, but I'm not counting on it. Rooting for him to succeed b/c I have a feeling he may be here for a few more years. |
Yinoma the longest he can stay here would be one more year if he doesn't opt out...are you suggesting he opts out and the FO signs him long term? If he continues to play like he has most of this year, which has been below what we had expected, IMO the FO would be nuts to sign him to a multi year deal. No way are they that stupid are they? |
4y/84m
#NeverForget |
 I refuse to believe that if he continues to play like he has most of this season. |
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Sina
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Glad to see what Russ has done so far: stay within the system and step up in final minutes. He is still learning but has shown improvement. |
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mad55557777
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:06 am Post subject: |
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one thing probably got lost in all the hatred toward RW is that he gets easy baskets to AD.
AD is 2nd in the NBA in paint scoring, and far above his career average. RW. Monk, Rondo all had something to do with it, but it is safe to say he gets easy basket to AD far more than everyone else including Lebron (because he was hurt). also far more than DS ever did. his chemistry with AD is improving, and we will need that. |
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3baller
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Great game by Russ no doubt. But the biggest question remains - can they make it work as a trio when they're on the floor at the same time? Especially in the playoffs when stars and starters play the most minutes together?
Last night, Russ had 11 points entering the 4th and only got it going when Melo, a shooter, replaced Bron in the lineup. It's only further proof that they work better as a duo plus shooters and that they'd have to jump through hoops with their schemes just to make it 'somewhat' work when they're a trio on the floor together.
Truth is, Russ can neither shoot well nor defend well anymore. It's quite a hurdle to overcome when you can't rely on a perimeter player to do either of those 2 things. And with his salary taking up more than a third of our salary cap, it became even more difficult to find quality players who could fill those holes. That's why we'd been forced to play Avery Bradley and an undrafted rookie to give us major minutes. We've yet to see what Ariza has left in the tank and whether Nunn has improved his defense enough for us to be able to play him alongside Russ.
If we had elite 3&D wings like a Nico Batum and a Mikal Bridges to play with our trio then yeah, that could probably work. But it's gonna be a tall task with our roster of veteran minimums on their last legs and a couple of unproven youngsters.
So either we somehow magically acquire elite wings midseason or Russ has to come off the bench. They did talk about setting aside egos to make this work but we all know that's all BS and Russ is never gonna agree to come off the bench.
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danzag
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| He's getting there, it seems? |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| danzag wrote: | | He's getting there, it seems? |
No. With Lebron out, he reverted to the way he has played in recent years. He's a floor raiser, and he got us to squeak out a win over the Pistons and just fall short against the Knicks. With Lebron out, that's fine. In the big picture, however, that's not good enough. We've got to find a way for him to play with Lebron and Davis effectively, so that the whole is not less than the sum of the parts. Floor raising isn't sufficient for a team that is focused on the ceiling.
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SGV-Laker fan
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| i love Russ, he's our best player by far this season. LeBron hasn't done much between his injuries and mood swings, and AD was a complete disappointment so far. Russ has his shortcomings that's for sure, but the guy plays with his heart out every single night. I just wish AD grows a pair and join him. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Not sure why the narrative about the Knicks game is they “ fell short”. I’ve seen it multiple times now.
Lakers buried themselves in such a deep hole they could not dig themselves out. Going down by 20 pts in the first quarter was downright sickening. No effort on either end and horrible execution!
I believe this is two games in a row now that the first Laker possession was a Westbrook turnover. No sustained effort or sense of urgency.
The Lakers tying the game in the fourth was exciting but it was no surprise it was short lived. I had some hope the Knicks would let another slip away late, but the Laker incompetence surpasses the Knicks apparently.
Westbrook is such a tough watch. So talented at times, then starts bricking bad shots and making poor decisions with the ball. Seeing him play every game is frustrating in the highs and lows. |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Westbrook wasn't the reason for the loss. where was ADs dominance? Thank god for Russ. it's embarrassing as is. Imagine if AD was leading. |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | Not sure why the narrative about the Knicks game is they “ fell short”. I’ve seen it multiple times now.
Lakers buried themselves in such a deep hole they could not dig themselves out. Going down by 20 pts in the first quarter was downright sickening. No effort on either end and horrible execution!
I believe this is two games in a row now that the first Laker possession was a Westbrook turnover. No sustained effort or sense of urgency.
The Lakers tying the game in the fourth was exciting but it was no surprise it was short lived. I had some hope the Knicks would let another slip away late, but the Laker incompetence surpasses the Knicks apparently.
Westbrook is such a tough watch. So talented at times, then starts bricking bad shots and making poor decisions with the ball. Seeing him play every game is frustrating in the highs and lows. |
We had Kobe, just saying….. |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | i love Russ, he's our best player by far this season. LeBron hasn't done much between his injuries and mood swings, and AD was a complete disappointment so far. Russ has his shortcomings that's for sure, but the guy plays with his heart out every single night. I just wish AD grows a pair and join him. |
If he played his heart out on defense all game, not just the 4th quarter, we wouldn't have to do the massive 4th quarter comeback routine that fails more often than succeeds. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:11 am Post subject: |
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I said before the season, if Westbrook is getting triple doubles then the team isn’t winning.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | He's getting there, it seems? |
No. With Lebron out, he reverted to the way he has played in recent years. He's a floor raiser, and he got us to squeak out a win over the Pistons and just fall short against the Knicks. With Lebron out, that's fine. In the big picture, however, that's not good enough. We've got to find a way for him to play with Lebron and Davis effectively, so that the whole is not less than the sum of the parts. Floor raising isn't sufficient for a team that is focused on the ceiling. |
This sums it up well. |
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roger_federer
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Joined: 01 Mar 2020
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | I said before the season, if Westbrook is getting triple doubles then the team isn’t winning. |
Can't Agree more.
Some folks here understand after end of the season. They won't accept though  |
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defense
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:57 am Post subject: |
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I need Westbrook to
Finish
Cut
Defend
Shoot only inside 15 feet
Box out
Pass better
Slow himself down
If he can do these things. We might make the playoffs.
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DrDent
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Joined: 30 Jun 2016
Posts: 12975
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I tried to downplay what a lot of others were saying about WB and his "fit" with the Lakers.
LBJ/AD is a certifiably monstrous duo. They won a chip and were 21-6 last season too with that lineup being also turned over with that summer's additions.
It seems WB plays better without LBJ (like last night when LBJ was gone).
But he's not good enough to win games at a high level right now without LBJ either (as shown by how AD/WB performed with LBJ this year).
Hoping something clicks and he can change it up, but I'm not counting on it. Rooting for him to succeed b/c I have a feeling he may be here for a few more years. |
The team has to let Westbrook change his game to fit what we have or let him sit. If we fall into the Houston/Washington trap and alter the offense to fit him then we greatly reduce the chances of winning anything. |
I think we are already there?
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23128
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | I said before the season, if Westbrook is getting triple doubles then the team isn’t winning. |
if Lebron is not playing, he has to be the leader, and if last night showed you anything, our role players are very inconsistent, i wouldn't blame AD because he was clearly sick. i think he changed his game a bit, probably not to the level lakers needed yet, but without lebron, it is hard for him to adjust too. i see less and less force shots from him in the past week, and that is a good thing. |
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KingKobe20
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Location: L.A County, 26 miles away from Staples Center
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| DrDent wrote: |
I think we are already there? |
Not as of late with Vogel going back to our large lineup.
With DJ being Javale.
An our guards being Russ and Avery instead of Avery/Danny or KCP/ Danny.
Lebron and Russ are being too unselfish whenever they’re on the court together.
There’s only been a few times when they both went into attack dog mode and we ended up winning.
Need both of these unguardable legends to eat!!! |
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