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Halflife
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 11:15 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
How deleterious was Russ's impact/trade on this team? (This is from another thread but relevant here).

LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27 games out of 72 (37.5% missed games)
21-22: 26 games out of 82 (31% missed games)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36 games out of 72 (50% missed games)
21-22: 40 games out of 82 (48% missed games)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win rate)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win rate)

So even with AD/LBJ missing a ton of games in 20-21, we still won at a 58% win rate b/c we had depth on the team (AC/Kuz/KCP/Dennis/Trezz, etc.). Flawed? Some, yes, but we were still able to stay afloat with AD/LBJ out.

After the Russ trade, LBJ/AD actually played in MORE games this season, but we drop to a 40% win rate. What was the primary change this summer? We traded out all of our depth, and didn't retain AC.

I can't even begin to describe how disastrous the Russ trade has been to the Lakers.

what was brons first year here?


I gave you the stats in another thread. No AD, and BI/Zo missed more games than LBJ that season so did you expect LBJ to win the championships with those guys?

who said championship. He got us to the lottery with and without russ. Cants be denied. You can make believe that the russ year was the only lottery year but it wasn't.

No russ
lottery
Bubble title
1st round exit

with russ
Lottery

if we are really honest and dissect brons time here we will know that without a 4+ month break, he's unable to be counted on.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 11:21 am    Post subject:

The Russ year was a self-inflicted wound that you have never conceded was a mistake. Do you concede that the Lakers should not have done the Russ trade?

The 2018-19 season speaks for itself. LBJ missed 27 games. The Lakers went 9-18 without him. Then BI/Zo missed 30-ish games each too. Not exactly a playoff team around LBJ, right?
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LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 11:29 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
How deleterious was Russ's impact/trade on this team? (This is from another thread but relevant here).

LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27 games out of 72 (37.5% missed games)
21-22: 26 games out of 82 (31% missed games)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36 games out of 72 (50% missed games)
21-22: 40 games out of 82 (48% missed games)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win rate)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win rate)

So even with AD/LBJ missing a ton of games in 20-21, we still won at a 58% win rate b/c we had depth on the team (AC/Kuz/KCP/Dennis/Trezz, etc.). Flawed? Some, yes, but we were still able to stay afloat with AD/LBJ out.

After the Russ trade, LBJ/AD actually played in MORE games this season, but we drop to a 40% win rate. What was the primary change this summer? We traded out all of our depth, and didn't retain AC.

I can't even begin to describe how disastrous the Russ trade has been to the Lakers.

what was brons first year here?


I gave you the stats in another thread. No AD, and BI/Zo missed more games than LBJ that season so did you expect LBJ to win the championships with those guys?

who said championship. He got us to the lottery with and without russ. Cants be denied. You can make believe that the russ year was the only lottery year but it wasn't.

No russ
lottery
Bubble title
1st round exit

with russ
Lottery

if we are really honest and dissect brons time here we will know that without a 4+ month break, he's unable to be counted on.


Fun fact. LBJ played in 56 games this year.

Ja played in 57 games this year. They were insane and won most of their games that Ja missed.

Now, imagine if Memphis decided to trade their depth (Bane, Jackson, Brooks) for Russ. Could they sustain Ja's absence? Of course not.

That's what the Lakers effectively did. Traded off KCP/Kuz/Trezz (didn't re-sign AC).

That is the message that you are not getting. It's a team effort. Lakers would have been much better off sustaining LBJ/AD's injuries (just like 20-21) if they kept their depth. In fact, I think we'd still be playing in the playoffs.
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LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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Halflife
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 11:44 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
How deleterious was Russ's impact/trade on this team? (This is from another thread but relevant here).

LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27 games out of 72 (37.5% missed games)
21-22: 26 games out of 82 (31% missed games)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36 games out of 72 (50% missed games)
21-22: 40 games out of 82 (48% missed games)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win rate)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win rate)

So even with AD/LBJ missing a ton of games in 20-21, we still won at a 58% win rate b/c we had depth on the team (AC/Kuz/KCP/Dennis/Trezz, etc.). Flawed? Some, yes, but we were still able to stay afloat with AD/LBJ out.

After the Russ trade, LBJ/AD actually played in MORE games this season, but we drop to a 40% win rate. What was the primary change this summer? We traded out all of our depth, and didn't retain AC.

I can't even begin to describe how disastrous the Russ trade has been to the Lakers.

what was brons first year here?


I gave you the stats in another thread. No AD, and BI/Zo missed more games than LBJ that season so did you expect LBJ to win the championships with those guys?

who said championship. He got us to the lottery with and without russ. Cants be denied. You can make believe that the russ year was the only lottery year but it wasn't.

No russ
lottery
Bubble title
1st round exit

with russ
Lottery

if we are really honest and dissect brons time here we will know that without a 4+ month break, he's unable to be counted on.


Fun fact. LBJ played in 56 games this year.

Ja played in 57 games this year. They were insane and won most of their games that Ja missed.

Now, imagine if Memphis decided to trade their depth (Bane, Jackson, Brooks) for Russ. Could they sustain Ja's absence? Of course not.

That's what the Lakers effectively did. Traded off KCP/Kuz/Trezz (didn't re-sign AC).

That is the message that you are not getting. It's a team effort. Lakers would have been much better off sustaining LBJ/AD's injuries (just like 20-21) if they kept their depth. In fact, I think we'd still be playing in the playoffs.

I don't care about Ja. I deal IRL. Something you don't want to do. Caveat everything all you want. I certainly do with the 4+ month break the bubble gave us but the reality is in the 4 years bron has been here he has had 1 successful year. His legacy as a laker would be different IMHO had that year been normal, but it wasn't. He knows he's broken down. He knows he's only concerned with scoring titles that's why he wanted Russ.

You can include russ in the trash surrounding bron, but russ historically has made the postseason.

Bron is done. Russ was a bad move but facts show with or without russ and without the luxury of the bubble bron hasn't faired well. I mean he has, the team hasn't. He said the season wasn't a failure.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 11:52 am    Post subject:

Quote:
I don't care about Ja. I deal IRL. Something you don't want to do. Caveat everything all you want. I certainly do with the 4+ month break the bubble gave us but the reality is in the 4 years bron has been here he has had 1 successful year. His legacy as a laker would be different IMHO had that year been normal, but it wasn't. He knows he's broken down. He knows he's only concerned with scoring titles that's why he wanted Russ.

You can include russ in the trash surrounding bron, but russ historically has made the postseason.

Bron is done. Russ was a bad move but facts show with or without russ and without the luxury of the bubble bron hasn't faired well. I mean he has, the team hasn't. He said the season wasn't a failure.


What is apparent is you don't care about talking about circumstances either. You act as if the 18-19 season had the same circumstances as all the other seasons when you know they didn't. You discount Ja because he's proof positive that a superstar can miss 25+ games, and if your team has strong depth, it can withstand those losses.

So what about the 4 months off. Every team had the same amount of time and the Lakers prevailed. I'm sure you rejoiced at the title then and didn't expect Rob/FO to systematically dismantle the depth around LBJ/AD. Wallow in your misery, it's clear I won't be able to get you out of it.
_________________
LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 11:57 am    Post subject:

Halflife…spending half his life on LG crapping on LeBron

What’s new?
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 12:01 pm    Post subject:

AD23 wrote:
Halflife…spending half his life on LG crapping on LeBron

What’s new?


I'm fine with the fact that LBJ has missed around 25+ games a year in 3 of his 4 years here. But to squarely blame LBJ is just disingenuous IMO. The first of LBJ was without AD, and BI/Zo were constantly hurt (and went 9-18 without LBJ). 2nd year is a title. 3rd year we lose LBJ/AD for more games than this season, but manage to win basically 6 out of every 10 games.

This season? we wont 4 out of 10 games. LBJ's injuries are part of the issue, no argument there. But Rob's systematic dismantling of the depth is the biggest issue IMO.
_________________
LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 12:09 pm    Post subject:

The Westbrook trade was a bad trade but it turned a first round playoff loser into a team that didn’t make the playoffs. There are other issues than just Westbrook and they begin and end in El Segundo.
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 3:14 am    Post subject:

Quote:
But Rob's systematic dismantling of the depth is the biggest issue IMO

Yep, it's a combination of this (at least 50% of the weight on this) and that we have 2 superstars that aren't really healthy enough to carry a team to the playoffs.

You look at AD/Bron at their best, sure, they can carry a team to the playoffs, easily, But that isn't something Rob should have ever depended/built his team around. Maybe his justification for Westbrook was just that, he thought 3rd star would help them solidify playoff standing. I certainly argued with people like Aeneas for Pelinka's case that he knew he hurt depth but he was getting a 3rd star to take the load off Bron. Which in some ways WB has, Bron has shifted from 10 APG and being the best PG in the NBA (19-20 title run) to 6 APG and being one of the best scorers in the NBA (30 a game). It's just WB was such a non-impact guy outside of the fact that he can push the pace and get the ball out of Bron's hands it was a disaster.

Basically, there's multiple facets to this. There's Rob's management of assets. H He did really bad with what he had around AD/Bron. 2 first round picks ('20, '21), Alex Caruso, KCP, Kuzma (thats 3 defensive players that can defend the 4, 3, 2, 1 spots), Trez (6MOTY scoring type) etc. (other stuff). Replaced by Westbrook/Dennis, Wesley Matthews/Kent Bazemore, Melo, Malik Monk level or types. Just not the same level of defenders or off the ball threats or overall players. Overlooking the success guys like Damion Jones or even Stanley have had with Vogel, and looking for ancient guys like DAJ/Ariza instead.

Then there's AD's health. We traded away the franchise's best assets for him and he needed to be Giannis level. Instead, after 1 year of Giannis level he's been injury prone and been like Kawhi, more than Giannis. We didn't sign him like the Clips did, we traded a ton of assets for him. So the trade looks a lot worse when you see AD's only given us 1/3 years of what we thought we were getting.

And finally Lebron. Not only has his LeGM interfered with the roster, his leGMing also interfered with his role on the team. He was a championship PG playing the Doncic role for Vogel. He wanted to move off the ball. Why? He's not Bean. He doesn't want to play only to win titles, he wants to play for scoring titles, longevity. He doesn't get "it". What it means to be a Laker. I apprecite Bron a ton, but his interests aren't alligned always with what's best for the team. There's no reason for us to take Lebron out of the PG role, and we did. He defintely played a part in this.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 1:14 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
But Rob's systematic dismantling of the depth is the biggest issue IMO

Yep, it's a combination of this (at least 50% of the weight on this) and that we have 2 superstars that aren't really healthy enough to carry a team to the playoffs.

You look at AD/Bron at their best, sure, they can carry a team to the playoffs, easily, But that isn't something Rob should have ever depended/built his team around. Maybe his justification for Westbrook was just that, he thought 3rd star would help them solidify playoff standing. I certainly argued with people like Aeneas for Pelinka's case that he knew he hurt depth but he was getting a 3rd star to take the load off Bron. Which in some ways WB has, Bron has shifted from 10 APG and being the best PG in the NBA (19-20 title run) to 6 APG and being one of the best scorers in the NBA (30 a game). It's just WB was such a non-impact guy outside of the fact that he can push the pace and get the ball out of Bron's hands it was a disaster.

Basically, there's multiple facets to this. There's Rob's management of assets. H He did really bad with what he had around AD/Bron. 2 first round picks ('20, '21), Alex Caruso, KCP, Kuzma (thats 3 defensive players that can defend the 4, 3, 2, 1 spots), Trez (6MOTY scoring type) etc. (other stuff). Replaced by Westbrook/Dennis, Wesley Matthews/Kent Bazemore, Melo, Malik Monk level or types. Just not the same level of defenders or off the ball threats or overall players. Overlooking the success guys like Damion Jones or even Stanley have had with Vogel, and looking for ancient guys like DAJ/Ariza instead.

Then there's AD's health. We traded away the franchise's best assets for him and he needed to be Giannis level. Instead, after 1 year of Giannis level he's been injury prone and been like Kawhi, more than Giannis. We didn't sign him like the Clips did, we traded a ton of assets for him. So the trade looks a lot worse when you see AD's only given us 1/3 years of what we thought we were getting.

And finally Lebron. Not only has his LeGM interfered with the roster, his leGMing also interfered with his role on the team. He was a championship PG playing the Doncic role for Vogel. He wanted to move off the ball. Why? He's not Bean. He doesn't want to play only to win titles, he wants to play for scoring titles, longevity. He doesn't get "it". What it means to be a Laker. I apprecite Bron a ton, but his interests aren't alligned always with what's best for the team. There's no reason for us to take Lebron out of the PG role, and we did. He defintely played a part in this.


Just our opinions, either could be right or wrong but it looks like LeBron would have passed Karl Malone and Kareem during the same seasons as he did/projected whether playing PG or off ball. So I don’t think it makes sense that he switched from PG to get his scoring up.

I don’t think (front office agreed) LBJ was sustainable at PG, I think we’re more fortunate that he did it once for a title as opposed to expecting it to be done again. At his age and considering injuries it makes more sense that the team looked for a PG to reduce LBJ usage than a conspiracy for LBJ to get more points, points that he was gonna get anyway.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 7:12 pm    Post subject:

Russell Westbrook has a similar if not better body frame than Jrue Holiday. Only if he is willing to play more defense...
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 9:08 pm    Post subject:

lakersfan8 wrote:
Russell Westbrook has a similar if not better body frame than Jrue Holiday. Only if he is willing to play more defense...


What's crazy is he was literally drafted because of his Defense as he was the Pac-10 Defensive Player of the Year as a Sophomore before entering the Draft. His defense and insane energy that completely altered games consistently was what had teams so intrigued about him from what I remember.. His elite athleticism allowed him to get to the rim whenever he wanted and hide the majority of his deficiencies especially early on (pretty much the same things that are still a problem today). I'm not sure exactly what happened as I didn't follow his early years close enough but it seems like he got more and more offensive responsibilities and almost in a competition with KD and Harden on the offensive end so he gave less and less of a f&* about defense as time went on.

This is honestly 90% of the reason I was trying to talk myself into the trade possibly working out when I was not a fan of it happening at all. I was hoping with AD and especially Bron being able to take up much of his normal responsibilities he'd give that same offensive effort on the defensive end and rekindle that College and early pro defensive presence knowing his best days are fading in the rear view mirror RAPIDLY. Instead I found out the friends I had who followed him much more closely over the years were sadly completely correct in that he is an absolute head case and all about Russ being Russ versus what's needed to actually win.

It's why I find it absolutely insane some people here talk about Bron playing only for stats this last Season when he was literally our only hope to win any games even against bottom dwellers. Russ sure as hell was not leading this team to anything without 37 year old Bron playing lights out by his side. I think he's becoming #1 in scoring regardless and would have happily changed things up if he had the slightest confidence that Russ could help us be better but by the All Star break I think it was pretty much blatantly obvious from the coaching staff to the entire roster Russ was nothing but a monumental eff up of a trade.

Dude is absolute trash and with his athleticism rapidly declining he will be joining his ol' buddy Harden as a washed ex superstar with disgustingly low bbiq and are purely regular season players that did nothing but prove how big of a fraud each of them were once games really mattered in the Playoffs.

Saying all that he should absolutely 100% be a better version of Jrue Holiday for us but Russ sadly doesn't live in reality or feel the need to play defense anymore which shouldn't be surprising at all since it's been well over a decade since he has even attempted to be competitive on that end.
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 2:55 am    Post subject:

^
The weird thing is that the only season Lebron stayed healthy was the PG season. He's been a Laker 4 seasons, and 1 of them he was the starting PG. KCP/Green or Bradley/Green and 2 bigs around him. That led to elite defense and a title level offense (we were top 10 in offense with Lebron in the lineup).

I don't get or agree with the narrative that being a PG will wear Lebron down. It's not been the case in 19-20, and if you look at 20-21 and 21-22 all we've seen is Lebron send the completely wrong message to the team by sitting way outside the 3 point line and shoot 3s for half the games. And still get injured, still get significant time.

The games we did well in anyway this past season, Lebron had to do far more as teams didn't respect WB as a playmaker at all. The same with Dennis. It's not like Rondo where he can set the table up so well that teammates know where to go. The team had zero chemistry with WB/Dennis and Lebron sitting. All WB/Dennis really were for Lebron is a way for him to get up the court and be in shoot mode. That's not winning basketball, and you wouldn't see Magic (who Lebron's game resembles far more than MJ) do that. I've never understood it. Even in Cleveland, when they tried Isiah Thomas and DRose it didn't work. To me, Lebron at this stage of his career is a very good scorer but not on the level of the top 3-5 elite scorers, But if you shift him into a PG, he's able to become the best again, because he's capable to control the game both as a passer and scorer.
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 6:12 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
^
The weird thing is that the only season Lebron stayed healthy was the PG season.
<snip>

I don't get or agree with the narrative that being a PG will wear Lebron down.
<snip>


Perhaps there was was a different reason to acquire a PG - perhaps it wasn't about Lebron not playing PG, just to anticipate shorter Lebron minutes and injuries. Consider the following:

The starting unit plays Lebron-ball where he dominates with his ball-control and penetration. That style has won numerous championships including 1 for the Lakers .. and .. well .. thats what Lebron plays. When Lebron sits or is injured (which is happening and will happen more and more) a team has 2 choices:
1) play a different style altogether perhaps with AD in the post, perhaps with more movement, perhaps something that leverages the secondary playmaker's strengths
2) try to play Lebron-ball with their bench PG

#1 seems much better in theory (and lots of posters clamor for it) but it's tough to manage 2 systems and change styles mid-game, and to do it with 9 new players on the team who have to learn new defense, gel with Lebron AND gel with the second units. It's been a consistent problem with Lebron ball and is now much worse given Lebron's injuries and age.
So could #2 work if there was a player on the team that comes close (in style!) to Lebron, a physically robust, UBER-athletic score-at-the-rim-or-dish-to-a-3-shooter, king-of-the-fast-break type. If such a player can be found then the team gets to play mostly the same style and 9 new role=players get a better chance to gel, especially with the stars missing games.

Perhaps #2 was the the "seductive" pull that led to Westbrook. And then the "rubber met the road" .. as they say.
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 6:20 am    Post subject:

LBJ/AD absolutely needed a playmaker type. But what the Lakers absolutely got wrong was that the playmaker needed to be able to shoot 3s for spacing, and be at least an average defender. Someone like Lowry would have theoretically fit the bill. But having a non-shooting, non-defending Russ was absolutely the wrong way.
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LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 6:22 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
The Westbrook trade was a bad trade but it turned a first round playoff loser into a team that didn’t make the playoffs.


Great take.
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 6:31 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
The Westbrook trade was a bad trade but it turned a first round playoff loser into a team that didn’t make the playoffs. There are other issues than just Westbrook and they begin and end in El Segundo.


Disingenuity is clearly a hobby for some people.
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 7:12 am    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The Westbrook trade was a bad trade but it turned a first round playoff loser into a team that didn’t make the playoffs. There are other issues than just Westbrook and they begin and end in El Segundo.


Disingenuity is clearly a hobby for some people.


He's right, though. We were dependent on the health of Lebron and Davis, and we had a badly constructed roster. Given the real world conditions that we experienced, consider how good Westbrook would have needed to be in order for us to get past the first round of the playoffs. Suppose that Westbrook was good enough to win us ten more regular season games. We make the play-in, and then enter the post-season with Lebron and Davis struggling through injuries. If we got through the play-in tournament, we would have been first round fodder again.

So yeah, the Westbrook trade was a big problem. But there were a lot of other issues.
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 7:39 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The Westbrook trade was a bad trade but it turned a first round playoff loser into a team that didn’t make the playoffs. There are other issues than just Westbrook and they begin and end in El Segundo.


Disingenuity is clearly a hobby for some people.


He's right, though. We were dependent on the health of Lebron and Davis, and we had a badly constructed roster. Given the real world conditions that we experienced, consider how good Westbrook would have needed to be in order for us to get past the first round of the playoffs. Suppose that Westbrook was good enough to win us ten more regular season games. We make the play-in, and then enter the post-season with Lebron and Davis struggling through injuries. If we got through the play-in tournament, we would have been first round fodder again.

So yeah, the Westbrook trade was a big problem. But there were a lot of other issues.


I'm referring to the ceiling of last year's roster relative to this one. I in no way disagree that this year's team was a disaster all the way through.
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ThePageDude
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 9:26 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

So yeah, the Westbrook trade was a big problem. But there were a lot of other issues.


Sure, but some of those other issues relate back to the Westbrook trade viz. lack of KCP/Kuz/Caruso.
Yes, other issues relate back not to the Westbrook trade but to the mentality behind the Westbrook trade e.g. lack of concern for assets, for a balanced roster, for the modern game viz. size/athleticism at the wing, 2-way players
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 9:27 am    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The Westbrook trade was a bad trade but it turned a first round playoff loser into a team that didn’t make the playoffs. There are other issues than just Westbrook and they begin and end in El Segundo.


Disingenuity is clearly a hobby for some people.


He's right, though. We were dependent on the health of Lebron and Davis, and we had a badly constructed roster. Given the real world conditions that we experienced, consider how good Westbrook would have needed to be in order for us to get past the first round of the playoffs. Suppose that Westbrook was good enough to win us ten more regular season games. We make the play-in, and then enter the post-season with Lebron and Davis struggling through injuries. If we got through the play-in tournament, we would have been first round fodder again.

So yeah, the Westbrook trade was a big problem. But there were a lot of other issues.


I'm referring to the ceiling of last year's roster relative to this one. I in no way disagree that this year's team was a disaster all the way through.


The ceiling of last year’s roster was a play in game and a loss to the Suns in the first round. We all saw that happen.
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ThePageDude
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 9:32 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

<snip>

The ceiling of last year’s roster was a play in game and a loss to the Suns in the first round. We all saw that happen.


I calculate "ceiling" with the starters uninjured - let alone one/both of the 2 all-stars injured. With Lebron/AD healthy that team's ceiling was higher than a 1st round exit (I agree it was likely not a championship team).

I can't think of a star-based team that's built to go deep into the playoffs without 1 or both of their stars, so by your definition pretty much every team's ceiling is a playoff loss.
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PenG_
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 9:42 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The Westbrook trade was a bad trade but it turned a first round playoff loser into a team that didn’t make the playoffs. There are other issues than just Westbrook and they begin and end in El Segundo.


Disingenuity is clearly a hobby for some people.


He's right, though. We were dependent on the health of Lebron and Davis, and we had a badly constructed roster. Given the real world conditions that we experienced, consider how good Westbrook would have needed to be in order for us to get past the first round of the playoffs. Suppose that Westbrook was good enough to win us ten more regular season games. We make the play-in, and then enter the post-season with Lebron and Davis struggling through injuries. If we got through the play-in tournament, we would have been first round fodder again.

So yeah, the Westbrook trade was a big problem. But there were a lot of other issues.


I'm referring to the ceiling of last year's roster relative to this one. I in no way disagree that this year's team was a disaster all the way through.


The ceiling of last year’s roster was a play in game and a loss to the Suns in the first round. We all saw that happen.


Quote:
Disingenuity is clearly a hobby for some people
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pjiddy
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 11:01 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The Westbrook trade was a bad trade but it turned a first round playoff loser into a team that didn’t make the playoffs. There are other issues than just Westbrook and they begin and end in El Segundo.


Disingenuity is clearly a hobby for some people.


He's right, though. We were dependent on the health of Lebron and Davis, and we had a badly constructed roster. Given the real world conditions that we experienced, consider how good Westbrook would have needed to be in order for us to get past the first round of the playoffs. Suppose that Westbrook was good enough to win us ten more regular season games. We make the play-in, and then enter the post-season with Lebron and Davis struggling through injuries. If we got through the play-in tournament, we would have been first round fodder again.

So yeah, the Westbrook trade was a big problem. But there were a lot of other issues.


I'm referring to the ceiling of last year's roster relative to this one. I in no way disagree that this year's team was a disaster all the way through.


The ceiling of last year’s roster was a play in game and a loss to the Suns in the first round. We all saw that happen.


I saw a team that gave the Suns the most it could handle of all Western teams and had the momentum until AD pulled his groin. And that was with Lebron on a bum knee. Not to mention a poorly-fit (and out of shape) Drummond being forced into the starting lineup by management. They were first in the West before injuries hit AD/Lebron.

As for this year's team, we saw them altogether and it looked like (bleep) from the jump and never looked better.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 11:40 am    Post subject:

The ceiling of this year's team was dramatically reduced when:

OUT: KCP/Kuz/Trezz/22nd pick
IN: Russ.

Then AC was not signed too.
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LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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