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Car54
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 Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Yeah, that’s a good rotation, but I feel the Lakers need to get that chemistry right between AD, Bron and Westbrook. So AD should start at 5, Bron at 4 with two shooting wings and Westbrook.
I don’t think when you have talent like Bron, Melo, Ariza. And all 35+. They are all 4s. We need AD at the 5 and Westbrook at the 1. AD needs to sacrifice his minutes and role. Less stats, more impact. Unlike Porzingis in Dallas, we will actually use AD in many more ways than just floor spacing.
It’s the right way to go about this IMO. Gasol should start at the 5 only once in a while in some physical match ups that AD should be kept away from in the Rs. But the RS is all about developing good habits and reps for playoffs. We need AD full time at the 5 in the playoffs.
Don’t have half ass it, go all in with Westbrook/Bron backcourt. Floor balance mandates that AD is the 5 + 2 shooting threats (Melo, Monk, Nunn, Baze etc). |
I think Gasol should start and you can still play AD offensively as a center while Marc is stretching the floor. My starting line up is Marc AD LeBron Ellington and Westbrook. You have spacing and passing. In that lineup.
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Yeah, that’s a good rotation, but I feel the Lakers need to get that chemistry right between AD, Bron and Westbrook. So AD should start at 5, Bron at 4 with two shooting wings and Westbrook.
I don’t think when you have talent like Bron, Melo, Ariza. And all 35+. They are all 4s. We need AD at the 5 and Westbrook at the 1. AD needs to sacrifice his minutes and role. Less stats, more impact. Unlike Porzingis in Dallas, we will actually use AD in many more ways than just floor spacing.
It’s the right way to go about this IMO. Gasol should start at the 5 only once in a while in some physical match ups that AD should be kept away from in the Rs. But the RS is all about developing good habits and reps for playoffs. We need AD full time at the 5 in the playoffs.
Don’t have half ass it, go all in with Westbrook/Bron backcourt. Floor balance mandates that AD is the 5 + 2 shooting threats (Melo, Monk, Nunn, Baze etc). |
I think Gasol should start and you can still play AD offensively as a center while Marc is stretching the floor. My starting line up is Marc AD LeBron Ellington and Westbrook. You have spacing and passing. In that lineup. |
Meshing of the superstar talents is obviously a key factor
Agree with Kenny Smith that they potentially could mesh very well. The reason is that AD doesn't need to have the ball to be effective, LBJ doesn't need to have the ball to be effective (plus not having to consistently bringing up the ball saves the wear and tear so that he can be effective throughout the season and playoffs) and Russ has always been a "One Man Fastbreak" hence greatly increasing the pace of the game creating many mismatches.
Gasol is a spacer if he is hitting his 3s plus he can bang with the Goberts/Embiids/Adams/etc. On D, he can anchor that end of the court despite not being a rim protector.
The increased pace of the game will allow the Laker shooters (Ellington, Monk, Nunn, TNT, Melo, Ariza) to have cleaner non-contested shots. Every made outside shots provide more opportunities for our D to be set
When Dwight is on the floor, especially with Russ on the floor, the energy level will be consistently faster than last year - again providng better and greater shots for our shooters
Thoughts |
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Car54
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Yeah, that’s a good rotation, but I feel the Lakers need to get that chemistry right between AD, Bron and Westbrook. So AD should start at 5, Bron at 4 with two shooting wings and Westbrook.
I don’t think when you have talent like Bron, Melo, Ariza. And all 35+. They are all 4s. We need AD at the 5 and Westbrook at the 1. AD needs to sacrifice his minutes and role. Less stats, more impact. Unlike Porzingis in Dallas, we will actually use AD in many more ways than just floor spacing.
It’s the right way to go about this IMO. Gasol should start at the 5 only once in a while in some physical match ups that AD should be kept away from in the Rs. But the RS is all about developing good habits and reps for playoffs. We need AD full time at the 5 in the playoffs.
Don’t have half ass it, go all in with Westbrook/Bron backcourt. Floor balance mandates that AD is the 5 + 2 shooting threats (Melo, Monk, Nunn, Baze etc). |
I think Gasol should start and you can still play AD offensively as a center while Marc is stretching the floor. My starting line up is Marc AD LeBron Ellington and Westbrook. You have spacing and passing. In that lineup. |
Meshing of the superstar talents is obviously a key factor
Agree with Kenny Smith that they potentially could mesh very well. The reason is that AD doesn't need to have the ball to be effective, LBJ doesn't need to have the ball to be effective (plus not having to consistently bringing up the ball saves the wear and tear so that he can be effective throughout the season and playoffs) and Russ has always been a "One Man Fastbreak" hence greatly increasing the pace of the game creating many mismatches.
Gasol is a spacer if he is hitting his 3s plus he can bang with the Goberts/Embiids/Adams/etc. On D, he can anchor that end of the court despite not being a rim protector.
The increased pace of the game will allow the Laker shooters (Ellington, Monk, Nunn, TNT, Melo, Ariza) to have cleaner non-contested shots. Every made outside shots provide more opportunities for our D to be set
When Dwight is on the floor, especially with Russ on the floor, the energy level will be consistently faster than last year - again providng better and greater shots for our shooters
Thoughts |
Agreed. You brought up something I wasn't even thinking about. Yeah the energy level of a unit ran by Russ and Dwight could be crazy. Throw Bazemore in that lineup too. Possibly something like Dwight Melo Bazemore Monk and Westbrook. Monk is a guy you could throw lobs to or pass to for the open 3
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:23 am Post subject: |
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You probably want some spacing at the 5 with Westbrook-Lebron lineups. So AD or Gasol there. You want some 3nD wing for sure, so the option there is Baze or maybe THT if he has developed. Not sure Monk can be relied upon for the D.
Athleticism I agree, which is why you probably want to have some guard-wings like THT, Monk, Nunn out there at all times, at least 1 of them. |
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DLaker
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:10 am Post subject: |
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C AD (24)/ Dwight (12)/ Gasol (12)
PF Bron (24) / AD (6) / Melo (18)
SF Base (24)/ Bron (6)/ THT (10) / Ariza (8)
SG Nunn (24) / Monk (12) / Ellington (12)
PG Russ (32) / THT (16)
This is how I see minutes breakdown with current lineup
Bron (30), AD (30), Russ (32), THT (26), Base (24), Nunn (24)
Melo (18), Monk (12), Ellington (12), Dwight (12), Gasol (12), Ariza (8) |
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GameCock-MD
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| DLaker wrote: | C AD (24)/ Dwight (12)/ Gasol (12)
PF Bron (24) / AD (6) / Melo (18)
SF Base (24)/ Bron (6)/ THT (10) / Ariza (8)
SG Nunn (24) / Monk (12) / Ellington (12)
PG Russ (32) / THT (16)
This is how I see minutes breakdown with current lineup
Bron (30), AD (30), Russ (32), THT (26), Base (24), Nunn (24)
Melo (18), Monk (12), Ellington (12), Dwight (12), Gasol (12), Ariza (8) |
I'd start Melo at the 4 with Nunn at the 2 if AD is starting at the 5.
Russ
Nunn
LeBron
Melo
AD
If Dwight starts at the 5, start Nunn at the 2.
Russ
Nunn
LeBron
AD
Dwight
No matter what, I would NEVER start LeBron at the 4.
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Cyberfreak444
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| GameCock-MD wrote: | | DLaker wrote: | C AD (24)/ Dwight (12)/ Gasol (12)
PF Bron (24) / AD (6) / Melo (18)
SF Base (24)/ Bron (6)/ THT (10) / Ariza (8)
SG Nunn (24) / Monk (12) / Ellington (12)
PG Russ (32) / THT (16)
This is how I see minutes breakdown with current lineup
Bron (30), AD (30), Russ (32), THT (26), Base (24), Nunn (24)
Melo (18), Monk (12), Ellington (12), Dwight (12), Gasol (12), Ariza (8) |
I'd start Melo at the 4 with Nunn at the 2 if AD is starting at the 5.
Russ
Nunn
LeBron
Melo
AD
If Dwight starts at the 5, start Nunn at the 2.
Russ
Nunn
LeBron
AD
Dwight
No matter what, I would NEVER start LeBron at the 4. |
Why not? It’s been his best position since at least 2012. In every Finals run he’s had he’s played most of his crucial playoff minutes at the four. If the concern is wear and tear, I’d argue that chasing around wings is more tiring. Plus he can always guard whoever on defense. But at the four, his devastating post-up game, and particularly his ability to pass out of the post, is unlocked. |
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All_Star_Laker
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| scout_0 wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | | scout_0 wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | As it stands right now?
Westbrook
THT
Lebron
Davis
Howard |
The spacing would be beautiful |
Don't matter. THT is the 4th highest paid player on the team now. Can't bench that anymore.  |
Since Nunn is the 5th highest paid he should also start! |
Actually Luol Deng is the 5th highest paid player
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GameCock-MD
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Cyberfreak444 wrote: | | GameCock-MD wrote: | | DLaker wrote: | C AD (24)/ Dwight (12)/ Gasol (12)
PF Bron (24) / AD (6) / Melo (18)
SF Base (24)/ Bron (6)/ THT (10) / Ariza (8)
SG Nunn (24) / Monk (12) / Ellington (12)
PG Russ (32) / THT (16)
This is how I see minutes breakdown with current lineup
Bron (30), AD (30), Russ (32), THT (26), Base (24), Nunn (24)
Melo (18), Monk (12), Ellington (12), Dwight (12), Gasol (12), Ariza (8) |
I'd start Melo at the 4 with Nunn at the 2 if AD is starting at the 5.
Russ
Nunn
LeBron
Melo
AD
If Dwight starts at the 5, start Nunn at the 2.
Russ
Nunn
LeBron
AD
Dwight
No matter what, I would NEVER start LeBron at the 4. |
Why not? It’s been his best position since at least 2012. In every Finals run he’s had he’s played most of his crucial playoff minutes at the four. If the concern is wear and tear, I’d argue that chasing around wings is more tiring. Plus he can always guard whoever on defense. But at the four, his devastating post-up game, and particularly his ability to pass out of the post, is unlocked. |
Never look at matchups like this.
LeBron at the 3 has a size and strength advantage on literally every starting wing in the NBA, including KD.
Lakers potentially have 2 rim protectors in the starting lineup, mitigating the issues surrounding chasing wings.
Lakers switch a lot, even 3-5 screens. LeBron isn't chasing anyone of the court more than anyone else at any position he plays.
So why would you want to minimize LeBron's main advantage, size and strength, by putting him up against 4s who are closer to his size and strength than 3s?
Seriously...I guess because I've been a basketball coach, I see the floor and matchups differently. I'm always adamant about playing a player as closer his true position as possible and as close to his best advantage as possible.
LeBron's best position is still the 3. You want LeBron passing to the 4/5 and LeBron grabbing rebounds on the defensive end BECAUSE he can outmuscle any 3 in the NBA and the 4/5s are busy boxing out opposing 4/5s.
Can LeBron play the 4? Yes.
If we didn't have AD, should LeBron play the 4 more?? Probably.
Since we have AD, should LeBron play the 4 more? Nope.
95% of the wings in the NBA have no chance against LeBron 1v1.
LeBron can guard 99% of the wings in the NBA, no problem.
Please:
Stop.
Playing.
Players.
Out.
Of.
Position...period.
It's great for 2K...not so great in real life. No disrespect to you and this probably sounds a lot harsher than I mean it to. I just feel passionate about winning basketball, not creating gimmicky lineups that look good on paper. We don't need gimmicks. Basketball is simple. Let's keep it that way.
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governator
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| All_Star_Laker wrote: | | scout_0 wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | | scout_0 wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | As it stands right now?
Westbrook
THT
Lebron
Davis
Howard |
The spacing would be beautiful |
Don't matter. THT is the 4th highest paid player on the team now. Can't bench that anymore. |
Since Nunn is the 5th highest paid he should also start! |
Actually Luol Deng is the 5th highest paid player |
what happened to Deng's salary next year? since we over the cap, we simply lose it, no cap gain? |
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ThePageDude
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Posts: 2588
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | All_Star_Laker wrote: | | scout_0 wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | | scout_0 wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | As it stands right now?
Westbrook
THT
Lebron
Davis
Howard |
The spacing would be beautiful |
Don't matter. THT is the 4th highest paid player on the team now. Can't bench that anymore. |
Since Nunn is the 5th highest paid he should also start! |
Actually Luol Deng is the 5th highest paid player |
what happened to Deng's salary next year? since we over the cap, we simply lose it, no cap gain? |
It simply comes off the books - we'll still be way over the cap without it. |
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LGFan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:18 am Post subject: |
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AD will play lot of mins at center but we need to start a real center next to him
His body can’t handle the full time center position |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Posts: 6145
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Yeah, that’s a good rotation, but I feel the Lakers need to get that chemistry right between AD, Bron and Westbrook. So AD should start at 5, Bron at 4 with two shooting wings and Westbrook.
I don’t think when you have talent like Bron, Melo, Ariza. And all 35+. They are all 4s. We need AD at the 5 and Westbrook at the 1. AD needs to sacrifice his minutes and role. Less stats, more impact. Unlike Porzingis in Dallas, we will actually use AD in many more ways than just floor spacing.
It’s the right way to go about this IMO. Gasol should start at the 5 only once in a while in some physical match ups that AD should be kept away from in the Rs. But the RS is all about developing good habits and reps for playoffs. We need AD full time at the 5 in the playoffs.
Don’t have half ass it, go all in with Westbrook/Bron backcourt. Floor balance mandates that AD is the 5 + 2 shooting threats (Melo, Monk, Nunn, Baze etc). |
I think Gasol should start and you can still play AD offensively as a center while Marc is stretching the floor. My starting line up is Marc AD LeBron Ellington and Westbrook. You have spacing and passing. In that lineup. |
Meshing of the superstar talents is obviously a key factor
Agree with Kenny Smith that they potentially could mesh very well. The reason is that AD doesn't need to have the ball to be effective, LBJ doesn't need to have the ball to be effective (plus not having to consistently bringing up the ball saves the wear and tear so that he can be effective throughout the season and playoffs) and Russ has always been a "One Man Fastbreak" hence greatly increasing the pace of the game creating many mismatches.
Gasol is a spacer if he is hitting his 3s plus he can bang with the Goberts/Embiids/Adams/etc. On D, he can anchor that end of the court despite not being a rim protector.
The increased pace of the game will allow the Laker shooters (Ellington, Monk, Nunn, TNT, Melo, Ariza) to have cleaner non-contested shots. Every made outside shots provide more opportunities for our D to be set
When Dwight is on the floor, especially with Russ on the floor, the energy level will be consistently faster than last year - again providng better and greater shots for our shooters
Thoughts |
Agreed. You brought up something I wasn't even thinking about. Yeah the energy level of a unit ran by Russ and Dwight could be crazy. Throw Bazemore in that lineup too. Possibly something like Dwight Melo Bazemore Monk and Westbrook. Monk is a guy you could throw lobs to or pass to for the open 3 |
Repeating what Kenny Smith - lol!
Knowing that AD, LBJ and Russ will be in the starting lineup (regardless of what “position” they are labeled at in this current “position-less”’era of the NBA - the competition will decide who will be the other, with the present assumption that Gasol will be at the 5
My POV is that the Closing Lineup will be LBJ, AD, Russ, TNT/Nunn and Melo/Ariza |
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GameCock-MD
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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For everything you gain from Gasol shooting on 1 end, you lose that and more defensively when teams put him in the P&R on the other end.
It's not worth it.
Let AD be the shooting C.
Put a rebounding, rim running and protecting C next to him.
Your team will be better on both ends of the court AND AD will be healthier because he doesn't have to do the dirty work. Vogel has been trying to encourage AD to take more 3s for this very reason.
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6145
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| GameCock-MD wrote: | For everything you gain from Gasol shooting on 1 end, you lose that and more defensively when teams put him in the P&R on the other end.
It's not worth it.
Let AD be the shooting C.
Put a rebounding, rim running and protecting C next to him.
Your team will be better on both ends of the court AND AD will be healthier because he doesn't have to do the dirty work. Vogel has been trying to encourage AD to take more 3s for this very reason. |
With Vogel being an excellent defensive coach with a very team Gasol faces having the same thoughts - there are ways to address this for a certain length of tine to use Gasol’s presence a positive |
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textbook
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Assuming Gasol does not come back, I can see AD playing a lot more center. Starting and ending game at center but also playing a lot of PF during the game.
Westbrook (32) / Nunn (12) / THT (4)
Ellington (20) / Baze (15) / Nunn (10) / THT (3)
Ariza (20) / THT (20) / Bron (3) / Baze (5)
Bron (24) / Carmelo (10) / AD (14)
AD (18) / Howard (20) / Bron (5) / Carmelo (5)
Forgot Monk...Well now this is harder. Somebody is going to have to sit. |
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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I think nunn should get the start at the 2 now that rondo is back.
This team is stacked. We might be old but we have enough talent to rest everyone lol.
Play based on matchups. Some matchups we won’t see certain guys and others will only play during load management of some of the older players
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alleyoop
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:02 am Post subject: |
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My guess - an 11-man rotation:
Westbrook (32) - Nunn (16)
Bazemore (20) - Monk (16) - THT (8) - Nunn (4)
LeBron (16) - Ariza (20) - THT (12)
Davis (12) - Anthony (20) - LeBron (16)
Gasol (14) - Howard (14) - Davis (20)
So all up: LeBron (32), Davis (32), Westbrook (32), Nunn (20), THT (20), Bazemore (20), Ariza (20), Anthony (20), Monk (16), Gasol (14), Howard (14)
I think Ellington and Rondo (and whoever we sign as 14th man) are the odd men out, at this stage. That said, they'll still get run, as I think we'll want to interchange who we use during the regular season on a frequent basis, experimenting with a bunch of lineups
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Car54
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Posts: 14424
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | My guess - an 11-man rotation:
Westbrook (32) - Nunn (16)
Bazemore (20) - Monk (16) - THT (8) - Nunn (4)
LeBron (16) - Ariza (20) - THT (12)
Davis (12) - Anthony (20) - LeBron (16)
Gasol (14) - Howard (14) - Davis (20)
So all up: LeBron (32), Davis (32), Westbrook (32), Nunn (20), THT (20), Bazemore (20), Ariza (20), Anthony (20), Monk (16), Gasol (14), Howard (14)
I think Ellington and Rondo (and whoever we sign as 14th man) are the odd men out, at this stage. That said, they'll still get run, as I think we'll want to interchange who we use during the regular season on a frequent basis, experimenting with a bunch of lineups |
Y'all keep counting Ellington out lol dude is the hands down the best shooter on this team. He makes 3s with two hands in his face. He's good in any scenario the defense can present. He doesn't turn the ball over like Bazemore. He can get to the basket. And he's good enough to be covered defensively.
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A Mad Chinaman
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Posts: 6145
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | You probably want some spacing at the 5 with Westbrook-Lebron lineups. So AD or Gasol there. You want some 3nD wing for sure, so the option there is Baze or maybe THT if he has developed. Not sure Monk can be relied upon for the D.
Athleticism I agree, which is why you probably want to have some guard-wings like THT, Monk, Nunn out there at all times, at least 1 of them. |
Food for Thought
Instead of always thinking/reacting/adapting defensively to what opposting teams will do, maybe we should put lineups there where most of the time - opposing players have to match up with us.
In the current position-less style played in the NBA, agree that Gasol/AD are the best to be on the floor when the pace is slow.
Hopefully having Dwight/Westbrook/young wings in the game, the pace will be higher creating many mismatches that can be taken advantage of.
In a slower paced game, if Dwight is setting a screen and Dwight's defender is falling back - the shooter will get even clearner and uncontested shots (Advantage Lakers)
Assuming that Westbrook will be handling the ball with greater usage than previous second options from last year, one has Westbrook collapsing the defense (because they are giving him the outside shot) that leaves 3 guarding 4 players with one of them being LBJ providing many opportunities.
As noted on the Lakers' show, Vogel has a proven track record of taking less-ta-stellar stats of NBA players and making them a part of an elite team defense scheme that ranked among the highest.
It will be interesting to see how much AC will improve the Bulls' D with Coach Donovan (https://www.welcometoloudcity.com/2020/7/17/21328174/the-growth-of-billy-donovan) - good coach, just not as experienced or the reputation of having teams consistently playing good Team D |
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Lucky_Shot
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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West - Rondo
Monk - Nunn
Bazemore - THT - Ellington
LBJ - Melo - Ariza
AD - Dwight - Gasol
Last edited by Lucky_Shot on Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BLF2145
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | I don't see Monk getting consistent minutes unless he can become an above average defender.
Gasol/Dwight probably play a combined 24 minutes a game. The other 24 at center will go to AD. |
If AD is playing the 5 for nearly half a game each game, plan on significant injuries and not being available by playoffs. The guy has made it abundantly clear. He has no interest in long stretches at the five because wear and tear on his body. He is not now going to play every game at the five for nearly half the game especially considering out overall defense will be worse likely this year compared to previous years. |
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32
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Posts: 73071
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:21 am Post subject: |
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I think Bazemore will get the start. He will replace KCP.
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | I think Bazemore will get the start. He will replace KCP. |
His highlights from last season with GS look KCPish.
He will get the start imo but he will probably get 20-25 min like KCP did and under 20 when he’s having a bad game. |
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32
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Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73071
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | I think Bazemore will get the start. He will replace KCP. |
His highlights from last season with GS look KCPish.
He will get the start imo but he will probably get 20-25 min like KCP did and under 20 when he’s having a bad game. |
Yeah, it could be an incredible pick-up for the vet min. And he's one of the younger guys at age 32. lol
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