Nirvana - Teen Spirit, etc
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:32 pm    Post subject: Nirvana - Teen Spirit, etc

Since Nirvana has resurrected in the news, ahem, do you recall the where/when/what of your first listen of Teen Spirit? Was it groundbreaking for you? Given the late 80s hairband dominance, how did the sound of so-called Grunge hit your ear/mind? Especially for those over 21 at the time. How'd you feel about it and their small canon of material, which unfortunately has to include everything from the Unplugged set, including the well-done covers?

Smells Like Teen Spirit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTWKbfoikeg

Lithium:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkcJEvMcnEg

Come As You Are:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vabnZ9-ex7o

Heart Shaped Box:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6P0SitRwy8

In Bloom:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbgKEjNBHqM

Sliver:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QECJ9pCyhns

All Apologies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWmkuH1k7uA

About A Girl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhcttcXcRYY

Dumb:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2m3_wCJFYk

Something In The Way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YhR5UfaAzM

Pennyroyal Tea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dcIPGzxsl8

On A Plain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80B_yiN2FH8

(Bowie) The Man Who Sold The World:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fregObNcHC8

(The Meat Puppets) Oh Me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5LtSKKr7oY

(Meat Puppets) Lake Of Fire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4LdUQzCPPM

(Leadbelly) Where Did You Sleep Last Night?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEMm7gxBYSc
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:46 pm    Post subject:

I think I was watching the Video Jukebox, here in San Diego, the first time I saw "Smells Like Teen Spirit" (about 1991).
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:44 pm    Post subject:

I just watched every one of those videos again. The Meat Puppets who did 3 songs of theirs w/ Nirvana show how hard it is to crack into the biz because their stuff was as quality as Cobain's writing-wise and the guitar player had some chops. He used a quarter for a pick. You never heard of em in lamestream music even after they got this boost by Nirvana. There's one I left out called Plateau that's great as well. Oh Me is a beautiful song. They were an alt band, but they had a terrible name. It's sorta par for the course for that genre, but even still, it sucked. A better name might've gotten them taken a little more seriously(?)

First time I heard SLTS I was already waiting for it because I heard all the initial buzz about it and socalled Grunge right when it burst onto the scene and then I was able to find it on MTV. It sounded weird to me, but I think that was the entire point. A lot of their songs go heavy and then immediately stop into a slower section and repeat. Spirit was the epitome of that song. It took me a little while to start appreciating the alternative music even tho I was in HS from 90 to 94 (nearly the full giant run of alt bands, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, etc etc). I knew the music was obviously much more substantive than crap like Ice Ice Baby, Cherry Pie, and I'm Too Sexy, etc. Junk like that got huge airplay right before Teen Spirit wiped it off the map. I love The Pumpkins and Cranberries. They were a nice ending circa 94/95 to the rise of Nirvana, SG, PJ, Alice In Chains. And of course, Cobain committed suicide in April of my senior year. The other good thing is that in 91, the alt stuff didn't wipe mainstream rock off the map, so you had both. Metallica, Ozzy, Van Hagar all had some of their biggest selling albums in 91/92.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:29 pm    Post subject:

I was in my early teens and it was on the MTV Top 10 Countdown that came on every evening. I hated it....I hated it so much. (I came around later). My music tastes at the time were very limited, but I loved hair band rock at the time. Then in the weeks that followed, I hated that so many others liked it. Even then at that age, I knew something was changing, and I did not want it to change. It was just a matter of time before Motely Crue and Poison would do something crazy like cut their hair and quit wearing makeup....
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:57 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
I was in my early teens and it was on the MTV Top 10 Countdown that came on every evening. I hated it....I hated it so much. (I came around later). My music tastes at the time were very limited, but I loved hair band rock at the time. Then in the weeks that followed, I hated that so many others liked it. Even then at that age, I knew something was changing, and I did not want it to change. It was just a matter of time before Motely Crue and Poison would do something crazy like cut their hair and quit wearing makeup....


I was a freshman in HS and it was the same for me.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:20 am    Post subject:

Pennyroyal Tea:

"I'm so tired, I can't sleep!..." (same refrain as Lennon in his song I'm So Tired = depression talk/experiences)

"I'm on warm milk, and laxatives...cherry...flavored...antacids..." (opiates cause constipation)

On A Plain:

"Got so high, I scratched til I bled..."

Dumb:

"My heart is broke, but I have some glue (heroin)..."

"We'll float around...hang out on clouds, then we'll come down, have a hang-over..."

There's a consistency in his lyrics. Kurt liked to include hints about the smack that he ultimately overdosed on and then shot himself in the head with a shotgun just in case he didn't take enough. Sad, but the poor guy was one of those people who were destined to do what he did no matter how much intervention was given. He checked out of a rehab facility to go do the deed.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:56 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
I was in my early teens and it was on the MTV Top 10 Countdown that came on every evening. I hated it....I hated it so much. (I came around later). My music tastes at the time were very limited, but I loved hair band rock at the time. Then in the weeks that followed, I hated that so many others liked it. Even then at that age, I knew something was changing, and I did not want it to change. It was just a matter of time before Motely Crue and Poison would do something crazy like cut their hair and quit wearing makeup....


True. I used to listen to 100.3 Pirate Radio and they played constant hair band. About the only substantive song then was Winds Of Change by The Scorpions and that was on a lot (Cult Of Personality by Living Colour was heady, too, forgot that one). I have a soft spot for the hair band era and I loved Crue, VH, Ozzy, Guns N Roses, and softer stuff like Foreigner. Some of those really cheesy hair band songs like Fly To The Angels by Slaughter are still guilty pleasures to this day. But I honestly remember in 89 and 90 of being bored to death with the lack of originality, I guess. I'm sure I didn't conceive the problem in those terms when I was a kid, but Nirvana needed to wipe away the bloated hair scene which with Poison, got to be disgusting. And I remember seeing a VH1 History Of Rock where CC DeVille (Poison guitarist) said of first hearing SLTS wistfully said that it was amazing and he so wished he could do songs like that. He sounded resigned to it, but that was after years of reflection.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:09 am    Post subject:

Nirvana (first) and then Pearl Jam and Soundgarden changed me. Those groups define my high school years. Then you can add the others. Jane's Addiction, Smashing Pumpkins, et. al.

I miss being moved by musicians like that. Jason Isbell might be the only one on my list right now.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:21 pm    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
Nirvana (first) and then Pearl Jam and Soundgarden changed me. Those groups define my high school years. Then you can add the others. Jane's Addiction, Smashing Pumpkins, et. al.

I miss being moved by musicians like that. Jason Isbell might be the only one on my list right now.


In the vain of Jane's Addiction, RCHP. Forgot them. Under The Bridge, beautiful song. Fellow Laker fans and forgot that song Under The Bridge. That thing was prolly on MTV as often as SLTS or Enter Sandman. In mainstream rock land, I also forgot to mention Aerosmith's 3rd or 4th comeback in the early 90s. The videos w/ Silverstone and Eddie Furlong (Living On The Edge, liked that one). And the re-do of Sweet Emotion. And GNR, Use Your Illusion 1/2.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:27 pm    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
Nirvana (first) and then Pearl Jam and Soundgarden changed me. Those groups define my high school years. Then you can add the others. Jane's Addiction, Smashing Pumpkins, et. al.

I miss being moved by musicians like that. Jason Isbell might be the only one on my list right now.


I share your passion for Jason Isbell. He's one of the truly great American songwriters of the last decade. He's on my shortlist of guys I will go see every time I get a chance and was lucky enough to see him do a show with John Prine at the Greek.

As for "Nevermind", here's my TLDR thoughts:

I totally remember my first listen to "Nevermind". I was in my late 20's and working my first career job at an ad agency doing graphic design. One of the Execs was a former A&R guy, so he was always getting early release CDs and sharing them with the crew. I was vaguely aware of the Seattle scene because of that—That's how I found Mother Love Bone before Andrew Wood's death.

Anyway, we were a small boutique place that was one of the first to start investigating the shift from traditional methods to the digital age—we were on the beta program for Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. I was the young buck who happily got tasked with using the new tools because more seasoned designer didn't want to deal with it. This of course meant many long days and late nights because those early computer/software combinations were as slow as frozen molasses. So I was pulling an all-nighter and wanted some new music to jam to keep me going. So I grabbed several CD's from the collection of new ones and it happened that the first one I put on was Nevermind because I liked the Seattle sound.

Man, did my night kick into gear. New music in the late '80's was mostly uninspired and derivative (Emphasis on "mostly", there was good new stuff coming out, but it wasn't on pace with the late '70's early '80's). It had been a long time since I had that kick in the ass "HOLY (bleep)!" moment hearing something new. But when the first couple of bars of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" kicked in, I was IN. I had a long night ahead of me and I was instantly energized, and then when the second track, "In Bloom" followed up I was inexorably sucked in. I just listened to that CD on a loop all night long and got more into it the more I listened. It kept the creative juices going and filled the tedium of waiting for endless renders to finish processing in the wee hours of the morning. I cranked out a bunch of work that night while listening to that album and was still sitting at my desk when my boss walked in the next morning. He was surprised to see me still there and did that "What are you still doing here?" thing, clearly processing the overtime I had generated. I showed him all the work I had done and he sent me home for some sleep. And as I left I remember telling him to listen to the CD—he was only a few years older than myself and liked the same music I did. When I came to work the following day, he thanked me for both the work, and the recommendation.

So "Nevermind" is definitely one of several seminal moments in my music memories.
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Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:51 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:

Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. I was the young buck who happily got tasked with using the new tools because more seasoned designer didn't want to deal with it.


Thanks for the reply as a 21 plusser at the time. That's why I love and appreciate you -- you never leave me hangin while others turn their noses at ol NPZ because I'm a weirdo and an idiot (both true, but you don't hold either against me, broheim). What-EVAR! You're a good lad, Muley. Don't think I don't recognize and appreciate that about you. You've always been, too. We go back a ways as you know (Ford/LT era).

Older guy to you re: new computer programs: "I found it hard, it's hard to find, oh well, whatever, nevermind.... YOU do it, kidd. To him you were still a long-haired hippie.

Weird Al's treatment was excellent as well. The band loved it. They would be the type to tear down their own product, that kinda thing was in Cobain's wheelhouse. They tried hard to effect the snotty, who cares, What, me worry? attitude and Cobain immediately pissed Axl off in the process. GNR, or Axl in partic, had to effect the opposite -- we're killers w/ instruments, we drink/toot/snort/shoot/bang 3 broads a day, drive wasted w/o belts, etc (same as The Crue -- ask Vince about the driving whilst drunk thing). The original should've had the moos and baahs, imo. Great touch. And Kurt cutting his hair off and demolishing a building. Those would've been more hardcore than the video actually was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FklUAoZ6KxY
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:37 am    Post subject:

Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Mudhoney... Those are some of my favorite bands and I still listen to them on a daily basis.

Grunge and all the "alternative rock" (like RHCP or Jane's Addiction) bands is what I grew up listening to (I'm in my early 30s).

And it naturally led me to bands like Fugazi, early hardcore punk and stuff like that.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:18 am    Post subject:

My first exposure to Nirvana was seeing the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" music video on MTV when I was 11 years old.

Growing up I watched a crap ton of TV (mostly cartoons and sitcoms), but I also spent a lot of time watching music videos on MTV and VH1. So naturally I remember the shift from the 80's excess and hair bands like Warrant/Poison/Bon Jovi/Guns N Roses to Nirvana/Pearl Jam/Alice in Chains etc.

But at that age, my palette was not sophisticated enough to differentiate between sub-genres of music so I just heard all of that stuff as just "rock" music.

It was not until I became older that I recognized the paradigm shift that had occurred. But the music did not make a huge impression on me at the time because I was so young.

But I remember a few years later I was in Jr High when Kurt took his life, and I remember everyone at school being super bummed out. I just remember seeing Kurt Loder come on MTV News during a break in videos to announce his death and I was shocked and sad.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:20 pm    Post subject:

I liked this thorough analysis by Rick Beato on Teen Spirit. I didn’t realize that Kurt wielded such a sophisticated sense of melody and harmony. I’ve always felt I had a pretty good ear for music, but even I totally glossed over that. Made me appreciate the tune alot more. Love that dudes content.

I enjoy both Nevermind and In Utero, despite the fact that I became hip to them much later. I can appreciate that they had a unique sound as well as a fresh artistic proposition for that time. I can see why they blew the doors open on the music scene when it was starting to become redundant, and shaped its direction for years to come. After Kurt died, I think grunge no longer had an identity as a movement. I’m a big Alice in Chains fan, but even they lacked the magnetism and charisma of a Cobain and Nirvana (Layne passing 8 years later didn’t help AiC either). Even Grohl is a household name, and he’s the freaking drummer. Beyond that I never really got into Soundgarden, Pear Jam, Mother love Bone, etc. Never quite heard the intrigue or spellbind that keeps one coming back for repeated listens. I know they have their fans, but to me they are just OK.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:21 pm    Post subject:

Cobain had the trifecta of charisma, danger, and the otherworldly understanding of a hook. It’s trendy to hate on him and Nirvana, but they captured the essence of what made rock and punk vital and real. Coming on the heels of GnR, who did much the same thing but in a more California Metal sound, that was a heady time to be a music fan. Like Punk, it died off quickly but changed the medium. I also enjoy PJ and AIC and Soundgarden, and all of those bands were really incestuous in the way that the scene was so small and they all knew each other pretty well, but we’re friendly and intensely social rather than huge rivals.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:35 pm    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
I liked this thorough analysis by Rick Beato on Teen Spirit. I didn’t realize that Kurt wielded such a sophisticated sense of melody and harmony. I’ve always felt I had a pretty good ear for music, but even I totally glossed over that. Made me appreciate the tune alot more. Love that dudes content.



I'm not sure if it's that video or some other Beato made, but he made the point that Kurt, whether he realized it or not, wrote a bunch of vocal melodies where he sang the major or minor third while his guitar played power chords (root and fifth). It's easy to write melodies where you constantly hit the root of the chord with your voice or even the fifth. But by "completing" the incomplete power chord with his voice singing the third of the chord, Kurt ended up writing hooks both in the verses and choruses that were highly original.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:38 pm    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
About the only substantive song then was Winds Of Change by The Scorpions


That Scorpions album was my first CD when I got my first CD player and moved on from the cassette. Actually, I got 2 CD's with my player....that Scorpions album and LL Cool J's Mama Said Knock You Out. It might have been a month before I got my 3rd CD...so you can only imagine how many times I listened to those original CD's.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:46 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
adkindo wrote:
I was in my early teens and it was on the MTV Top 10 Countdown that came on every evening. I hated it....I hated it so much. (I came around later). My music tastes at the time were very limited, but I loved hair band rock at the time. Then in the weeks that followed, I hated that so many others liked it. Even then at that age, I knew something was changing, and I did not want it to change. It was just a matter of time before Motely Crue and Poison would do something crazy like cut their hair and quit wearing makeup....


I was a freshman in HS and it was the same for me.


In WV, we still had Junior High School (7th-9th) grades....and I was in 8th or 9th grade. Do you recall that evening countdown MTV did at the time....it was not the Carson Daly show as it was before that show began to air. If I recall, it would start around 6PM ET....edge of dark in the fall.

I just had a flashback....I think that Smells Like Tees Spirit was on the same countdown with Metallica Enter Sandman....or maybe another Metallica song from that Album and November Rain from GnR or songs from Use Your Illusion I/II. Maybe I am wrong....but when I went back in my memory, it seems like those were the songs it dethroned to take over the top spot.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:50 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
I liked this thorough analysis by Rick Beato on Teen Spirit. I didn’t realize that Kurt wielded such a sophisticated sense of melody and harmony. I’ve always felt I had a pretty good ear for music, but even I totally glossed over that. Made me appreciate the tune alot more. Love that dudes content.



I'm not sure if it's that video or some other Beato made, but he made the point that Kurt, whether he realized it or not, wrote a bunch of vocal melodies where he sang the major or minor third while his guitar played power chords (root and fifth). It's easy to write melodies where you constantly hit the root of the chord with your voice or even the fifth. But by "completing" the incomplete power chord with his voice singing the third of the chord, Kurt ended up writing hooks both in the verses and choruses that were highly original.


I'm not nearly someone who has a technical understanding of the construction of music. But I trust my ears immensely and I know when something special is going on. There is a combination of simultaneous dissonance and harmony to that album that is haunting, yet completely soothing. Despite the chaos and cacophony going on, it's satisfyingly hypnotic in a way that comes back around to tranquil.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:51 pm    Post subject:

Btw....people my age and older have complained for decades about MTV moving away from showing music video's. I never really understood why they made the change, but just recently learned what I think was the driving reason....Neilson Ratings and Advertising revenue. In the video model, people would check is to see if a song was playing they liked and if it was not turn it away....and if it was, watch the 3-4 minute video and turn the channel. Apparently Neilson was not picking up much of their viewers because they did not stay on the channel long enough, and it killed their revenue from advertising.

Maybe I am the last to know, and this was well known? If not, does it make sense?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:01 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Btw....people my age and older have complained for decades about MTV moving away from showing music video's. I never really understood why they made the change, but just recently learned what I think was the driving reason....Neilson Ratings and Advertising revenue. In the video model, people would check is to see if a song was playing they liked and if it was not turn it away....and if it was, watch the 3-4 minute video and turn the channel. Apparently Neilson was not picking up much of their viewers because they did not stay on the channel long enough, and it killed their revenue from advertising.

Maybe I am the last to know, and this was well known? If not, does it make sense?


I had suspected it had something to do with their revenue model, but didn't realize Neilsen wasn't able to pick up most of the viewers. It does make sense and probably makes me one of the last to know. Apparently, even the early countdown format shows like Dial MTV (possible answer to your earlier question to the pre-Carson Daly days) had a better chance of showing up on those paper Neilsen diaries vs the random music videos.

While I loved the hair bands as well and was an avid 100.3 Pirate Radio listener, it didn't take me too long to open up to the sound. I was halfway through college at the time, they ripped out our on-campus 10-lane bowling alley “Bruin Bowl” and temporarily replaced it with air hockey, pool tables, arcade games, and a jukebox. I'd always queue up all of the Nirvana songs that were available and have it blare out over the speakers, setting the tone and mood. Nothing else came close, it just got everyone going.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:12 pm    Post subject:

XTC wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Btw....people my age and older have complained for decades about MTV moving away from showing music video's. I never really understood why they made the change, but just recently learned what I think was the driving reason....Neilson Ratings and Advertising revenue. In the video model, people would check is to see if a song was playing they liked and if it was not turn it away....and if it was, watch the 3-4 minute video and turn the channel. Apparently Neilson was not picking up much of their viewers because they did not stay on the channel long enough, and it killed their revenue from advertising.

Maybe I am the last to know, and this was well known? If not, does it make sense?


I had suspected it had something to do with their revenue model, but didn't realize Neilsen wasn't able to pick up most of the viewers. It does make sense and probably makes me one of the last to know. Apparently, even the early countdown format shows like Dial MTV (possible answer to your earlier question to the pre-Carson Daly days) had a better chance of showing up on those paper Neilsen diaries vs the random music videos.

While I loved the hair bands as well and was an avid 100.3 Pirate Radio listener, it didn't take me too long to open up to the sound. I was halfway through college at the time, they ripped out our on-campus 10-lane bowling alley “Bruin Bowl” and temporarily replaced it with air hockey, pool tables, arcade games, and a jukebox. I'd always queue up all of the Nirvana songs that were available and have it blare out over the speakers, setting the tone and mood. Nothing else came close, it just got everyone going.


I forget who it was....but heard a guy on a podcast that was there in the 80's and early 90's and he provided that explanation. I think he said it was the old game show, Remote Control, that kind of made it clear to them that they were no long for the music video model 20+ hours of the day. Then the revenue climbed so much each time they added a Real World or new show, they eventually just stopped almost all music videos because it was 10 cents on the dollar for advertising revenue.

Btw, it took me longer to accept what was called Alternative Rock. I rebelled and went Country & Rap for several years. Then by my Junior year in high school I came around with Smashing Pumpkins, Hootie and Blowfish, Soul Asylum, Collective Soul, Gin Blossoms, Goo Goo Dolls, etc. Now when I think of high school, that is the music I recall. I basically had to go back and realize what I had missed with groups like Pearl Jam.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:37 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Btw....people my age and older have complained for decades about MTV moving away from showing music video's. I never really understood why they made the change, but just recently learned what I think was the driving reason....Neilson Ratings and Advertising revenue. In the video model, people would check is to see if a song was playing they liked and if it was not turn it away....and if it was, watch the 3-4 minute video and turn the channel. Apparently Neilson was not picking up much of their viewers because they did not stay on the channel long enough, and it killed their revenue from advertising.

Maybe I am the last to know, and this was well known? If not, does it make sense?


CLOSE, but not quite accurate, there is a 2-hr BIOGRAPHY show on the rise and fall of MTV on the A&E channel, I've seen it twice and it's quite interesting, I moved out with two girls in Huntington Beach around the time when MTV was just taking off, all of our lives seemed to revolve around music, it was an awesome time... One of my roomates dated guys in TSOL & the Crowd and another friend was a DJ who hosted clubs... Every weekend it was off to Hollywood or Pasadena to see bands, walked up an bought tickets to see Duran Duran, the first time they every played at the Roxy (before they were famous), saw the Psychedelic Furs at Magic Mountain, saw Stray Cats their first US tour in Hollywood, Nirvana, Peral Jam and grudge rolled in as the 80's were winding down, they were ok, loved the passion/emotion of the first Pearl Jam album...

LINK: https://www.aetv.com/specials/biography-i-want-my-mtv-2#:~:text=Biography%3A%20I%20Want%20My%20MTV%20%7C%20A%26E%20Charts,evolved%20into%20a%20reflection%20of%20American%20youth%20culture.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:01 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
adkindo wrote:
I was in my early teens and it was on the MTV Top 10 Countdown that came on every evening. I hated it....I hated it so much. (I came around later). My music tastes at the time were very limited, but I loved hair band rock at the time. Then in the weeks that followed, I hated that so many others liked it. Even then at that age, I knew something was changing, and I did not want it to change. It was just a matter of time before Motely Crue and Poison would do something crazy like cut their hair and quit wearing makeup....


I was a freshman in HS and it was the same for me.


In WV, we still had Junior High School (7th-9th) grades....and I was in 8th or 9th grade. Do you recall that evening countdown MTV did at the time....it was not the Carson Daly show as it was before that show began to air. If I recall, it would start around 6PM ET....edge of dark in the fall.

I just had a flashback....I think that Smells Like Tees Spirit was on the same countdown with Metallica Enter Sandman....or maybe another Metallica song from that Album and November Rain from GnR or songs from Use Your Illusion I/II. Maybe I am wrong....but when I went back in my memory, it seems like those were the songs it dethroned to take over the top spot.


Rikki Rachtman of Headbanger's Ball got fired for answering fan letters truthfully about the crap MTV would push onto HBB that wasn't metal, hard rock, or even rowdy enuff Grunge. One song he mentioned specifically was Don't Treat Me Bad by Firehouse. Comically unHBB faire that he lost his streetcred w/ fans for having to debut and then interview said jabroneys. That would suck having to do that as a HR/metal fan. Firehouse also did Love Of A Lifetime and RR would grin n bear debuting it, haha That, the 2nd ballad archetype after the initial debut. All the W bands did that 2nd ballad. Even GNR did, but theirs was cool (SCoM).

This dreck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eaz9zMk2yM

My God, this mofo had a punchable face AND voice. Those taffy pull syllables, vomitous. Omar, I realize that Firehouse was your fave band, but turrible.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:05 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
XTC wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Btw....people my age and older have complained for decades about MTV moving away from showing music video's. I never really understood why they made the change, but just recently learned what I think was the driving reason....Neilson Ratings and Advertising revenue. In the video model, people would check is to see if a song was playing they liked and if it was not turn it away....and if it was, watch the 3-4 minute video and turn the channel. Apparently Neilson was not picking up much of their viewers because they did not stay on the channel long enough, and it killed their revenue from advertising.

Maybe I am the last to know, and this was well known? If not, does it make sense?


I had suspected it had something to do with their revenue model, but didn't realize Neilsen wasn't able to pick up most of the viewers. It does make sense and probably makes me one of the last to know. Apparently, even the early countdown format shows like Dial MTV (possible answer to your earlier question to the pre-Carson Daly days) had a better chance of showing up on those paper Neilsen diaries vs the random music videos.

While I loved the hair bands as well and was an avid 100.3 Pirate Radio listener, it didn't take me too long to open up to the sound. I was halfway through college at the time, they ripped out our on-campus 10-lane bowling alley “Bruin Bowl” and temporarily replaced it with air hockey, pool tables, arcade games, and a jukebox. I'd always queue up all of the Nirvana songs that were available and have it blare out over the speakers, setting the tone and mood. Nothing else came close, it just got everyone going.


I forget who it was....but heard a guy on a podcast that was there in the 80's and early 90's and he provided that explanation. I think he said it was the old game show, Remote Control, that kind of made it clear to them that they were no long for the music video model 20+ hours of the day. Then the revenue climbed so much each time they added a Real World or new show, they eventually just stopped almost all music videos because it was 10 cents on the dollar for advertising revenue.

Btw, it took me longer to accept what was called Alternative Rock. I rebelled and went Country & Rap for several years. Then by my Junior year in high school I came around with Smashing Pumpkins, Hootie and Blowfish, Soul Asylum, Collective Soul, Gin Blossoms, Goo Goo Dolls, etc. Now when I think of high school, that is the music I recall. I basically had to go back and realize what I had missed with groups like Pearl Jam.


Sandler and Colin Quinn on Remote Control. Ken Ober the host, died young. Kari Wuhrer, a top 10 wish I could boff choice w/ Phoebe Cates in all hetero boyz 80s masturbo fantasy mental imagery.
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