Who will be our next AC type player?
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LAKERMIKE2
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:40 pm    Post subject: Who will be our next AC type player?

We are loaded at the guard spot, hopefully we can retain Nunn, Monk or both if they ball out & we can?

We signed a few guys that will play in G-league most of year. So out of Ayayi, Reaves, McClung or one of my choices Queen or Brown…

I don’t think Ayayi showed much of anything in summer league, McClung is too small & Reaves I expected more from. None of the three seem physically capable of playing in NBA, especially doing what Caruso did for us.

Brown & Queen are definitely physically capable of guarding 1 thru 3. I watched film of Queen & he’s more offensive & can shoot 3’s way better, but I wonder about his ability to defend. He certainly is knowledgeable of the game & around the ball all the time, he has hops so we shall see.

Brown, I saw a bit in summer league & he too is athletic but I need to watch more film of him cause I didn’t think he had showcasing then?

So, who who do you think or can we develop another type of Caruso player in next two years?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:49 pm    Post subject:

>enter thread, excited to see people talking about AC Green
>see that the post has nothing to do with him
>leave
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:00 pm    Post subject:

C M B wrote:
>enter thread, excited to see people talking about AC Green
>see that the post has nothing to do with him
>leave


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:27 pm    Post subject:

AD.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:31 pm    Post subject:

AC. = bench player 6-7 PPG couple of assists, boards, and steals. Lots of energy and defense.

Who could be that bench guy?

Assuming not a big man, since AC was a guard.

Rondo
Monk
Ellington
THT
Nunn
Bazemore

THt, Bazemore, Nunn probably best replacement values.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:03 pm    Post subject:

LAKERMIKE2 wrote:
So, who who do you think or can we develop another type of Caruso player in next two years?


Probably no one.

Undrafted guys who turn into rotation players, like Caruso, are extremely rare.

Also, Caruso got a shot because we were a crappy team without much talent. If Caruso joined the roster today, I doubt he'd get any playing time.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:10 pm    Post subject:

We need at least one athletic forward with legit forward height who will become our next AC. Someone who will develop into a Michael Cooper-type 3-and-D forward.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:51 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
LAKERMIKE2 wrote:
So, who who do you think or can we develop another type of Caruso player in next two years?


Probably no one.

Undrafted guys who turn into rotation players, like Caruso, are extremely rare.

Also, Caruso got a shot because we were a crappy team without much talent. If Caruso joined the roster today, I doubt he'd get any playing time.


A probably non-exhaustive list of undrafted NBA players who played for the Lakers (and were rotation players):

Caruso
Bazemore
Matthews
Chucky Atkins
Jeremy Lin
Jose Calderon

I'm sure I'm missing some. But in just the last two seasons that is 3 guys who went undrafted on the team.

I concur it's exceedingly rare to get a Ben Wallace type who goes undrafted, wins a championship and goes to the Hall. But without doing a deep dive on this, my guess is that undrafted guys who get called up probably have as much success on average as second round picks. As later picks invariably turn out to be crap shoots and there is invariably attrition that needs to be filled outside of the draft, there's always a guy who was as good or better than the one who just flamed out just waiting for the opportunity and who put in the extra work after not being drafted.

I would be interested in seeing some real data on this, but I don't think the Caruso story is necessarily so unusual.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:58 pm    Post subject:

^^^^

I think Nunn was undrafted. As for compared undrafted players to second round picks, if you get past the first half of the second round, you're probably right. It might even be after the first 5 or 10.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:55 pm    Post subject:

I am more worried about who is our Next Magic,Shaq, Kobe,Bron over AC
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:04 pm    Post subject:

LGFan wrote:
I am more worried about who is our Next Magic,Shaq, Kobe,Bron over AC


The team seems to find a way to lure one of these all-time greats into the fold. Can they continue pulling rabbits out of the hat? It would be awful to become the Cowboys or Raiders.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:30 pm    Post subject:

Ariza was a "Caruso" for the Lakers in that championship run... excellent defense, athleticism, spot up 3s, a knack to pull off momentum turning hustle plays
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:13 pm    Post subject:

I think we should start trying to groom Westbrook into being the next Caruso. He has the potential to have the same level of impact defensively and is in some ways superior on offense, despite not being as good of a shooter.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:14 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
Ariza was a "Caruso" for the Lakers in that championship run... excellent defense, athleticism, spot up 3s, a knack to pull off momentum turning hustle plays


Yes. Ariza in that title run, the year we beat Orlando, was exactly as you said; he had a knack for pulling off momentum turning hustle plays, played excellent defense all game. As I remember it he was supposedly an all defense, suspect offense situational player when we picked him up, and he developed that spot up 3 while he was a Laker. Still in the NBA after all these years, I'd say that worked out pretty well for him.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:30 pm    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
Ariza was a "Caruso" for the Lakers in that championship run... excellent defense, athleticism, spot up 3s, a knack to pull off momentum turning hustle plays


Yes. Ariza in that title run, the year we beat Orlando, was exactly as you said; he had a knack for pulling off momentum turning hustle plays, played excellent defense all game. As I remember it he was supposedly an all defense, suspect offense situational player when we picked him up, and he developed that spot up 3 while he was a Laker. Still in the NBA after all these years, I'd say that worked out pretty well for him.


Ariza was a "1-and-done" highly touted 19-year old draftee who was a rotation player as a rookie. Lakers were able to acquire him because Orlando didn't have minutes for him and he was up for a contract extension. Trevor played almost 38 minutes a game in the Finals - MUCH more impactful than Caruso.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:42 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
LAKERMIKE2 wrote:
So, who who do you think or can we develop another type of Caruso player in next two years?


Probably no one.

Undrafted guys who turn into rotation players, like Caruso, are extremely rare.

Also, Caruso got a shot because we were a crappy team without much talent. If Caruso joined the roster today, I doubt he'd get any playing time.


I disagree. Every year there are 2-3 udfa's who become rotation players. Mind you it took AC 3+ years before you could say he was established in the Lakers rotation.

If you need examples

Heat - Duncan and Nunn with Max Strus and Omer Yurtseven showing potential for the future

Raptors - Chris Boucher and Fred Van Vleet

Clippers - Terrance Mann

Kings - Terrence Davis

Rockets - Jae Sean Tate

Lakers - AC and David Nwaba

There are others if you look around the league.

This year was a very deep draft and I expect a number of udfa's to eventually become rotation players including 2 of Reaves, Ayayi and Queen (2020 draft).

LAKERMIKE2 wrote:
None of the three seem physically capable of playing in NBA, especially doing what Caruso did for us.


If you watched AC in his first year in the Gleague his body was similar to Reaves, possibly a tad better. His transformation showed how players can transform in an NBA strength and conditioning program and I expect similar for Reaves and Ayayi.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:51 pm    Post subject:

^^ but you cant teach athleticism... Caruso looks like he is a more quicker and springier player than Reaves by a good amount
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:10 am    Post subject:

Yes, I’m hoping either Reaves with more strength, Queen or Brown will become our scrapper in one or two years. After all, I believe they’re further ahead in 3 pt shot than Alex was at beginning. There will be a spot on roster next year with so many one year deals, maybe 1 or 2 might improve enough to get some playing time like Alex did.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:45 am    Post subject:

AD23 wrote:
C M B wrote:
>enter thread, excited to see people talking about AC Green
>see that the post has nothing to do with him
>leave





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:47 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^

I think Nunn was undrafted. As for compared undrafted players to second round picks, if you get past the first half of the second round, you're probably right. It might even be after the first 5 or 10.


Nunn is probably the most likely to replace AC...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:49 am    Post subject:

Vogel addressed this….it’s a team effort and he will put players in a position to succeed. AC was never a stopper….played good D with the help of his teammates. Baze and THT are about the same height with longer length than AC….we’ll be fine.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:39 am    Post subject:

RG73 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LAKERMIKE2 wrote:
So, who who do you think or can we develop another type of Caruso player in next two years?


Probably no one.

Undrafted guys who turn into rotation players, like Caruso, are extremely rare.

Also, Caruso got a shot because we were a crappy team without much talent. If Caruso joined the roster today, I doubt he'd get any playing time.


A probably non-exhaustive list of undrafted NBA players who played for the Lakers (and were rotation players):

Caruso
Bazemore
Matthews
Chucky Atkins
Jeremy Lin
Jose Calderon

I'm sure I'm missing some. But in just the last two seasons that is 3 guys who went undrafted on the team.

I concur it's exceedingly rare to get a Ben Wallace type who goes undrafted, wins a championship and goes to the Hall. But without doing a deep dive on this, my guess is that undrafted guys who get called up probably have as much success on average as second round picks. As later picks invariably turn out to be crap shoots and there is invariably attrition that needs to be filled outside of the draft, there's always a guy who was as good or better than the one who just flamed out just waiting for the opportunity and who put in the extra work after not being drafted.

I would be interested in seeing some real data on this, but I don't think the Caruso story is necessarily so unusual.


I'll make it easier for you.

Here is the list of every undrafted player who played at least one game in the NBA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_undrafted_players

I'd estimate over the last 30 years, on average one to two undrafted guys a year turn unto a solid journeyman.

Undrafted journeymen tend to move from team to team, so a number of these guys have played at least one season for the Lakers. I think AC is the only undrafted player who started a successful NBA career with the Lakers. (Smush Parker, arguably, might be another, but he had a 67-game stint with Cleveland before joining us.)

In the modern era, there's been one undrafted Hall of Famer (Ben Wallace), and two other undrafted guys who made all-star games (John Starks, Brad Miller).

So occasionally an undrafted player develops a solid NBA career, but it's fairly rare. Certainly, you can never count on it happening
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:57 am    Post subject:

If I have to put a bet… Travelin Queen
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:36 am    Post subject:

I don’t think anyone is going to be one of the best perimeter defenders in the league.

THT has the most potential given his wing span and ability to bother the opponent, but it takes more than just having the requisite length. What separates AC from most of the league is his high basketball IQ and anticipation. His read and react at game speed and no defensive possessions off is what makes him elite.

Bazemore and Ariza will do their part, but they aren’t at the stage of their careers to be like Caruso. THT is young enough to be the next AC with more offense if he puts in the work.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:53 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
If I have to put a bet… Travelin Queen


I'd feel better about this if he actually was signed to the roster or 2-way. Otherwise for the Lakers I'd say Reaves. I wouldn't be surprised if he gains Vogel's trust and earns spot minutes later in the season and not just in blow outs.
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