NETS -at- LAKERS - 10/3 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:19 pm    Post subject: NETS -at- LAKERS - 10/3 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

Lakers vs. Nets... First game of the preseason for the Lakers, and ideally we end the season against these same Nets, too. Hopefully, with a win.

The two teams sat a good portion of their impact players, however, for this one. For the Lakers, that meant a lot of their playmaking as they rolled out lineups with no Russ/LeBron. Doubtful we see that much this season as Vogel will likely have one on court at all times.

The Lakers lacked pace early with a Nunn/THT-led squad. That picked up as the quarter went along and we transition to Rondo at point and some smaller lineups (featuring THT at power forward for a stretch). Hard to read much from the offensive end of the court as they trailed 25-19 after the first.

The smaller PF situation today led to a lot of offensive boards for the Nets.

The Lakers stayed close in the third quarter and only trailed by 3 to start the fourth. As we rotated into complete G-League lineups, this one got out of hand. L.A. shot 0-14 to start the quarter, giving up a 26-2 run and the ball game. They fell 123-97.

With so much roster turnover, I hope we shorten the rotations sooner rather than later. Even though they are a veteran squad, they could still use the reps to build continuity. At least this season, the team will actually get to practice with regularity.


Davis -- -- Short stint today and without his primary playmakers it looked very much like the poor quality offense we have seen at times in those non-LeBron minutes. Very perimeter, iso oriented. He hit an And-1 runner over Millsap and bullied his way to a short one off the two-man action with THT. But the team was very disjointed and that plays into some stagnant ball when it’s only AD on the floor without a star playmaker. We had a couple of set sequences for lobs that (didn’t work out). The first one, AD was called for a moving screen off a weave (a good play to run when you don’t have playmakers, but also when you want to occupy defenders away from the ball). The gravity of LBJ/Russ this season should open up a lot of things for AD if we can get them downhill. The key for that will be to occupy off-ball defenders in some fashion, so look for plays like that this preseason. Just a quarter of action. Good to see him moving well. Can’t wait to see our trio on the floor together. The Stats: He scored 6 points on 2-6 shooting (2-3 from the line) to go with 1 board, 1 assist, 1 steal, 2 turnovers and 2 fouls in 11 minutes. He was a -7.

Nunn -- -- He was kind of feeling things out early and sitting back, but eventually started showing things you will see from him throughout the season. He hit a floater in the middle of the lane. He can hit that from decent range. If he’s not feeling the pressure behind him off the screen, he can snake it and hit the pull-up as we saw. He sank a pull-up three from the wing in transition, as well. Those types of three shots look pretty casual with how he shoots. If you give him that space, he’ll drill it. We saw a couple of drives, one off a nice crossover on iso where he finished over help. Just one assist in this game, which is why playing him with THT is probably a good idea. THT can playmake a bit more and Nunn can play off ball. If/when we see minutes with neither Russ/LBJ, does Vogel go with this duo or does he insert Rondo. I tend to think he finds minutes for the young kids. The Stats: He scored 9 points on 4-10 shooting (!-4 from three) to go with 7 boards, 1 assist, 2 turnovers and 1 foul in 24 minutes. He was a -6.

Horton-Tucker -- -- He went 1-4 from three in this game. His one make was a deep catch and shoot straight away. No hesitation. It’s so key this season that he becomes a threat from three. That will allow him to play with Westbrook with more ease and possibly even have more moments closing. If they have to defend the three line against him, then you’ll see more of that massive throwdown action he had where he attacked off that closeout and hammered early on in the game. That was highlight reel worthy to start the season. Not an efficient shooting night, although one of his drives Dwight cleaned up the dribble penetration, another looked like he was fouled with no call. So a little better game than the box score might indicate. We played him a little at PF in this game as the team has so many guys sitting. That won’t happen in the regular season. The Stats: He scored 10 points on 3-11 shooting (1-4 from three, 3-4 from the line) to go with 4 boards, 3 assists, 1 steal, 1 turnover and 2 fouls in 26 minutes. He was a -2.

Bazemore -- -- He didn’t get credit for a block in this one, but had a great rotation where he ate up a shot at the rim. That along with his pass deflections and a steal that turned into breakaway are what will get him minutes. That kind of effort plays an important role around your stars. He also sank one of his two attempts from three (a deep buzzer beater). He’ll have a lot of looks when shot creators are out there. He was quiet on the floor at times, but his energy and defensive moment will have Vogel leaning on him for crunch time minutes, I’m sure. The Stats: He scored 5 points on 2-6 shooting (1-2 from three) to go with 3 boards, 3 assists, 1 steal, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 22 minutes. He was a -10.

Jordan -- -- He got the start, running alongside AD. You could read into that as Vogel maybe thinking of a McGee-type role for DJ. It’s possible. But also consider that we had a shortage at the PF spot with LeBron/Melo/Ariza all out. This put us into a situation of playing guards like THT and Reaves at PF quite often in this game. So sliding AD into PF makes sense just because of the situation. So consider that. Offensively, it won’t take long for guys to put the ball up near the rim for him a little more. Baze had a nice one from the corner on the break. That’s preferred rather than trying to find him with lower passes where he had some issues today with DJ fumbling the ball. Defensively, putting him up against a floor stretcher like Aldridge/Millsap isn’t a great matchup as we saw at times. We want him able to clog the paint and leave his man to help protect the rim. He looked better when he was in that role and chasing the shotblocks will have more impact. Dwight will be the main backup C. He’s just playing at a different level than DJ at this stage of their careers. But DJ will make some flashy plays with lob finishes, shotblocks and his D will improve as our scheme does. Westbrook and LeBron will activate him more. Still, I think it will be likely we are counting the minutes with DJ before he sits like we did with McGee. The Stats: He scored 7 points on 1-2 shooting (5-8 from the line) to go with 4 boards, 1 assist, 3 blocks, 1 turnover and 3 fouls in 17 minutes. He was a -10.

Ellington -- -- Watch Ellington in that third quarter on early offense. We want to set up more secondary break/early offense actions. You see him communication to DJ to set up at the top of the arc. He’s reading both DJ’s man and his own man. DJ’s man is in a drop, Ellington comes off that quick screen which his man gets caught going under and then he swishes the three. We’re going to see more of that with intention this season. Of course, after that play, he fouled a man and gave up two FTs. Taking advantage of his great shooting while not having him too exposed on D will be the challenge. “He wants me to be solid, no straight-line drives,” Ellington said about what Vogel wants from him on D. If he can pressure on the perimeter, chase around screens and avoid easy straight line drives, he gives the Lakers a whole new dimension to the offense -- shooter on the move. He sank his other three on his move to the right. His gravity will open up lanes for LBJ and Westbrook. The Stats: He scored 11 points on 3-9 shooting (2-7 from three, 3-3 from the line) to go with 1 board, 1 steal and 2 fouls in 22 minutes. He was a +3.

Howard -- -- He had the Dwight Howard Experience going. Good energy coming off the bench to start the second quarter. On the first possession he had a rim run for a score and then picked up the team’s defensive intensity. Really love seeing that effort on the offensive glass (5 offensive boards). That was without LBJ/Russ. We are going to have so much more penetration for him this year that I think you see big numbers here with some regularity. Dwight will be activated. His physicality was causing all kinds of issues (and some blood) for the Nets team. The refs were in some kind of preseason Colin Robinson, energy vampire mode in this one as they had a lengthy delay to review a Dwight play. He drew a whistle getting pulled down on an offensive board. The review took forever (27 minutes, I think they said) and they called a flagrant-1 on him. Bogus as he was getting pulled to the floor while boxing out. He seemingly earned a FT for that, took it.but then I don’t think they counted it). He picked up a tech while waiting for the ruling. The delay took forever. “It’s almost like a halftime stoppage,” Stu opined. Dwight fouled out on the play after it was all said and done. Welcome back, Dwight. The Stats: He scored 11 points on 3-7 shooting (5-6 from the line) to go with 6 boards, 1 steal, 1 block, 2 turnovers and 6 fouls in 13 minutes. He was a +0.

Monk -- -- One of the players I’m excited to see this year. It was a low-risk, high-reward signing. But it’s all about the defensive end for him on whether it pans out. And that’s not something that can’t be really evaluated well in a game like this with all the talent sitting, and both teams ignoring weak defenders and attacking without a lot of purpose. So...can we find good matchups for him or can he elevate his game defensively this season under Vogel and the paint patrolling bigs behind him? When it gets down to it, I’m a little skeptical about that aspect, but with renewed focus in his career there’s no reason he can’t be. It’s not a matter of athleticism. In any event, the D will determine how big a role he will have with this team. They’ve been describing him as a microwave offensively in training camp, and he showed that tonight. In transition, he swished a pull-up three from the wing and scored a layup on a breakaway. He went to work with Dwight on the two-man action and hit another three. After setting up Dwight for FTs, he worked the two-man game again and hit a pull-up from midrange. (Dwight ate that defender up on a hard screen...and that shot will likely be there for him all day on those.) Monk also hit a step-back wing three at the end of the third quarter. Good game from him and he didn’t even have the gravity sucking players like Russ and LBJ on the floor to open things up. He took difficult shots last year. Give him clean, open looks to get going? That can be trouble for an opponent. The Stats: He scored 15 points on 6-12 shooting (3-6 from three) to go with 2 boards, 1 assist, 1 block, 1 turnover and no fouls in 21 minutes. He was a -5.

Rondo -- -- The pace picked up once he came in the game after a sluggish opening. The crowd gave him and Dwight a nice cheer as they returned to the floor. Rondo quickly found him on a rim run for an easy score. One of the reasons we took a step back on the break even though we added Schröder last year, is that we didn’t have Rondo pushing pace. Schröder didn’t do that. Rondo is always getting the team to change ends quickly. I don’t expect Rondo to be in the rotation with regularity. Maybe early in the season to help with continuity. We had so much roster turnover that giving minutes to guys like Dwight and Rondo to help the team get on the same page early on might be useful. (Both were put in lineups with new guys purposely for that in practice.) Amazing that Rondo could get that $15 million paycheck we couldn’t give him and be back with the team a year later. The Stats: He didn’t shoot or score and had 3 boards, 1 assist and 1 foul in 9 minutes. He was a +1.

Reaves -- -- We threw him in the mix pretty early tonight. Yes, he got a lot of run with the G-League lineups (see the -18), but he was out there early and slotted in as one of those small ball forwards to start the second when we had all the regulars sitting. Very disruptive on D. You’d see guys trying to test him and go at him and more often than not, Reaves actually got the best of them. He had the bench on their feet angry with a foul call on a stop attempt on iso on one play. But his hands stripping players on drives or making smart rotations to blindside or dig down, was not something you typically see from a rookie. Keep showing us that. He also sank a deep three, his only make of the game. He should have knocked down at least one more with the looks he had. But if he can play D like he did today, he’s got enough offensive game that he could work all that into some guaranteed contracts. The Stats: He scored 3 points on 1-5 shooting (1-4 from three) to go with 3 boards, 2 assists, 1 steal, 2 turnovers and 4 fouls in 20 minutes. He was a -18.

Ayayi -- -- He continues to have no presence when on the floor, whether it’s summer league or preseason. He’s just not making guys feel him on either end. He was blocked under the hoop and threw a pass away. I’d rather two-way Brown/Queen/Oliver. He has just shown very little. Maybe he’ll surprise, but you’ve got to be aggressive and make an impact. He’s just not doing it. The Stats: He didn’t score on 0-2 shooting (0-1 from three) to go with 1 assist, 1 turnover and 2 fouls in 14 minutes. He was a -15.

Oliver -- -- He came in for the garbage time minutes. Dwight had fouled out. DJ probably reached his minutes. AD was only going to play for one quarter. We need a practice big and a guy who can play in minutes like this, but he can also stretch the floor some. That wasn’t shown in this one. Still, got to think the Lakers end up finding a role for him since he can do the above. He scored off a couple of setups. Reaves hit him rolling for FTs. He dunked off an interior feed from Queen. The Stats: He scored 4 points on 1-1 shooting (2-4 from the line) to go with 2 offensive boards, 1 steal, 1 turnover and 3 fouls in 12 minutes. He was a -22.

Brown -- -- Really good outing from him. He came in late in the third and was aggressive (Ayayi...this is what you need to do). He scored 10 points in 13 minutes. His size on the wing and three shooting are something that fills a need. He knocked down a couple of three shots later in the fourth. He had putback off an offensive board and another score earlier. Overall, he made the most of his minutes. The Stats: He scored 10 points on 4-8 shooting (2-4 from three, 0-1 from the line) to go with 1 offensive board and 2 turnovers in 13 minutes. He was a -18.

Queen -- -- I’ve liked the energy he’s played with for the summer squad and carrying that over to this preseason game. Not a whole lot noteworthy in this one. He jumped the passing lane for a steal and an And-1. He also had a nice feed to Oliver for a dunk. He’s active in ways that work well around stars, but very short minutes today. The Stats: He scored 5 points on 2-6 shooting (0-1 from three, 1-1 from the line) to go with 3 boards (2 offensive), 1 assist, 2 steal and 1 foul in 7 minutes. He was a -5.

McClung -- -- Mac came in for the garbage time fourth quarter action. Not a good shooting exhibition. He clanked a couple of attempts from three and was swatted on a drive. He did earn some FTs on a pull-up and he also used his hops to deflect a pass in transition that tried to go over the top of him. He’ll be in the G-League all year to refine his game. The Stats: He scored 1 points on 0-3 shooting (0-2 from three, 1-2 from the line) to go with 1 board, 2 assists, 1 steal, 1 block and 2 fouls in 10 minutes. He was a -16.

Vogel -- -- Key Moment: Well, this is the first preseason game. The Lakers trailed by 3 heading into the fourth. Vogel called a timeout as the Oliver, Brown, Ayayi, Monk, Reaves lineup fell back by 10. It was South Bay Lakers time and they got smoked in those first few minutes. They trailed by 19 after just over 4 minutes. They were outscored 26-2 with 5:30 left, going 0-14 before finally hitting a shot.

Key Substitution: With so many players sitting, it’s really difficult to get anything of substance from this one. Let’s look at the second quarter to maybe get a read on what might really happen. Vogel went with Howard, Reaves, Monk, Ellington, Rondo to start that quarter. This would seem like a likely time for Melo to get some minutes at PF. So pencil in Melo for Reaves. The next question is which one of Westbrook/LeBron might run with this unit instead of Rondo? Either way you go, you have shooters around you and a big screen setter with Dwight. So Howard, Melo, LeBron, Ellington, Monk? Or Howard, Melo, Monk, Ellington, Westbrook. That second version seems more likely as it’s a more natural defensive fit. And I’d love to see Westbrook getting downhill off Dwight screens and attacking the bigs with all that shooting around him. Or working the two-man with Melo.

Key Stats: Don’t take much from the Lakers giving up 14 offensive boards. They played some guards at PF, and if you’re going to do that, it’s best to have Westbrook out there to help gobble up some boards. But that was preventing the Lakers from building a lead in the first three quarters. The G-League getting out scored 39-16 in the fourth, took care of the L.


Last edited by DancingBarry on Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:45 pm    Post subject:

I agree 100 percent about Ayayi. He just doesn’t look like an NBA player. You never notice him on the floor, and not just tonight, but in Summer league as well.

Brown needs to have his way contract.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:24 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB. Encouraging start by Monk, curious how he progresses as a defender. Speaking of, I didn't watch Austin Reaves; very encouraging to read he's a pest on defense.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:40 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:59 pm    Post subject:

Dwight with 6 fouls in 13 minutes?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:31 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB. Smiley face?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:33 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB! Thanks again for all your hard work on these! They have been a huge, enjoyable piece of my Laker experience for years.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:51 pm    Post subject:

twisted wrote:
Thanks DB. Smiley face?


Haha. Fixed it. Didn’t even feel like a loss to me I guess.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:12 am    Post subject:

Thanks, DB.

I am not surprised about Monk. Talked about in his thread, he is a guy that I can see has the skills to really break free. Unlike some of our designated spot up shooters, Monk can create scores for himself a few ways. The defense will be on a lot of pressure with a Westbrook/Monk/James perimeter unit. With a physical 5 setting screens for them, and AD doing what only AD can, both our halfcourt offense and fastbreaking can be a major load.

As DB said though, both here and the Monk thread, his defense is what we need to be looking at. Saw this guy play college ball and he has all the talent to be a big time scorer in this league and be an elite 3rd/4th option. I rate his skills in terms of being complimentary to the superstars even higher than THT. He can be like the good version of KCP, as KCP used to go MIA on us if his shot did not fall early. Difference? KCP played D. Monk even yesterday, I did not see him close his man or play that defense we saw from KCP. Which is why we may see Vogel end up going with Baze or Ellington. It is that defensive commitment we need to see from Monk in these next 2 weeks. But absolutely if you ask me who should start next to DeAndre/AD/Bron/Westbrook, it needs to be Monk or Nunn or THT. A younger guy that can have fresh legs each night and give the starters energy.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:18 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Dwight with 6 fouls in 13 minutes?

His job as a champion role player has been to be as physical as possible, setting incredibly good screens, not allowing layups/drives (Which means fouls) and getting a lot of rebounds. All those things, are going to lead to a lot of games where he is fouled out. The NBA does not allow you to play the Pistons bad boys style of game anymore, but Dwight has that physicality. We clearly missed it last year. It's nice to have it vs what we got from Trez. We don't look "small and somewhat soft" anymore. At all.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:15 am    Post subject:

Thanks, DB!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:10 am    Post subject:

Thanks, DB!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:49 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Dwight with 6 fouls in 13 minutes?

His job as a champion role player has been to be as physical as possible, setting incredibly good screens, not allowing layups/drives (Which means fouls) and getting a lot of rebounds. All those things, are going to lead to a lot of games where he is fouled out. The NBA does not allow you to play the Pistons bad boys style of game anymore, but Dwight has that physicality. We clearly missed it last year. It's nice to have it vs what we got from Trez. We don't look "small and somewhat soft" anymore. At all.


Why was Dwight labeled soft and unable to set screens during his 2012-2013 stint with us?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: NETS -at- LAKERS - 10/3 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

DancingBarry wrote:
Lakers vs. Nets...
Howard -- -- He had the Dwight Howard Experience going. Good energy coming off the bench to start the second quarter. On the first possession he had a rim run for a score and then picked up the team’s defensive intensity. Really love seeing that effort on the offensive glass (5 offensive boards). That was without LBJ/Russ. We are going to have so much more penetration for him this year that I think you see big numbers here with some regularity. Dwight will be activated. His physicality was causing all kinds of issues (and some blood) for the Nets team. The refs were in some kind of preseason Colin Robinson, energy vampire mode in this one as they had a lengthy delay to review a Dwight play. He drew a whistle getting pulled down on an offensive board. The review took forever (27 minutes, I think they said) and they called a flagrant-1 on him. Bogus as he was getting pulled to the floor while boxing out. He seemingly earned a FT for that, took it.but then I don’t think they counted it). He picked up a tech while waiting for the ruling. The delay took forever. “It’s almost like a halftime stoppage,” Stu opined. Dwight fouled out on the play after it was all said and done. Welcome back, Dwight. The Stats: He scored 11 points on 3-7 shooting (5-6 from the line) to go with 6 boards, 1 steal, 1 block, 2 turnovers and 6 fouls in 13 minutes. He was a +0.


Look at the 5 second mark of the following video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNLRVNbNNW0

The ref who gave Howard the tech is standing between Howard and Harden(?). The ref turns to Harden(?) and (reading his lips) says "Off the floor, please." The ref seems to repeat this several times and Howard and Harden(?) just ignore him. So, he walks away from the pair and called a tech on Howard but not Harden(?).
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:16 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Dwight with 6 fouls in 13 minutes?

His job as a champion role player has been to be as physical as possible, setting incredibly good screens, not allowing layups/drives (Which means fouls) and getting a lot of rebounds. All those things, are going to lead to a lot of games where he is fouled out. The NBA does not allow you to play the Pistons bad boys style of game anymore, but Dwight has that physicality. We clearly missed it last year. It's nice to have it vs what we got from Trez. We don't look "small and somewhat soft" anymore. At all.


Why was Dwight labeled soft and unable to set screens during his 2012-2013 stint with us?


Combination of then-recent back surgery and a clownish attitude? He earned his reputation in 2013 and he's earning it now too, fortunately it's a good reputation this time to anyone not wearing a zebra shirt.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:28 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
twisted wrote:
Thanks DB. Smiley face?


Haha. Fixed it. Didn’t even feel like a loss to me I guess.


Yup, it's one of those neutral face type of games
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:24 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Dwight with 6 fouls in 13 minutes?

His job as a champion role player has been to be as physical as possible, setting incredibly good screens, not allowing layups/drives (Which means fouls) and getting a lot of rebounds. All those things, are going to lead to a lot of games where he is fouled out. The NBA does not allow you to play the Pistons bad boys style of game anymore, but Dwight has that physicality. We clearly missed it last year. It's nice to have it vs what we got from Trez. We don't look "small and somewhat soft" anymore. At all.


Why was Dwight labeled soft and unable to set screens during his 2012-2013 stint with us?


Because he didn't want to be a screener - he wanted to be a primary option (despite the fact that he lacked those skills).
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:43 am    Post subject:

Why didn't Bron and Russ play? Short stint like AD?
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