Dave Chappelle: The Closer
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LakesGnrLake
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:05 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
LakesGnrLake wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Halflife wrote:
PLATNUM wrote:
Where was all this same energy when he was playing crackheads and joking about black people and virtually every other demographic?

He told a few jokes to make a comparison and certain people got triggered.
Nothing to see here.

That the problem. Fake outrage is a thing now. In the context or art nothing should be off limits.


There is a huge amount of violence targeting transgender people, especially transgender women. When people with a public platform pile on to the bigotry (whether joking or not) it can only lead to more violence. This is not nothing. This is not about people being triggered. This is about a vulnerable population with a target on it's back being made into a bigger target. And JK Rowling's bigotry is deplorable too.

You don't have to be transgender to empathize with transgender people. You don't have to be black to empathize with black people. We have a dysfunctional culture that fosters bad feelings toward "others." To emphatically conclude this is simply "fake outrage" demonstrates both a lack of knowledge and a lack of empathy.

The same thing applies when male comedians objectify women in their comedy routines. Women are already targets of violence and objectifying them and denigrating them gives more people permission to treat them as objects. Similarly, after the former guy made Asians a target over the source of the COVID pandemic, violence against Asians in this country increased dramatically. That's not fake, that's fact.


Yikes. So comedians need to watch who they make fun of because of potential violence? Does this only applies to minorities? This kind of post is exactly what Chappelle was going on about in his stand up and I can't believe how what he was trying to get across went over about 95% of people's heads.


Your response is 100% what I would expect from you having read your takes in the political thread for years. So I'm not surprised my post went over your head.


Dave made a point about his trans friend said they were living the human experience and you don't need to understand them, you just need to know they are living breathing and trying to get through life like everyone. Everyone wants to be treated "equally" but then get upset when things don't work in their favor. It doesn't make sense to say treat us like everyone else then get upset when someone makes jokes about a group. And his jokes weren't even hurtful it was literally just him telling his experiences. You make a point to show how these groups are being targeted by hate, which is horrible, but also connects to an old joke Dave used to tell, which was never get into a "who's had it worse" contest with a Jewish person. We're all just trying to survive/live life and if everyone understood that things would be much better.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:54 pm    Post subject:

IMO the uproar is not so much about Daves jokes as it is about what they may cause those with small minds to think and do.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:42 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Psychology behind the unfunny consequences of jokes that denigrate

By Thomas E. Ford, Professor of Social Psychology, Western Carolina University

Q: Why did the woman cross the road?

A: Who cares! What the hell is she doing out of the kitchen?

Q: Why hasn’t NASA sent a woman to the moon?

A: It doesn’t need cleaning yet!

These two jokes represent disparagement humor – any attempt to amuse through the denigration of a social group or its representatives. You know it as sexist or racist jokes – basically anything that makes a punchline out of a marginalized group.

Disparagement humor is paradoxical: It simultaneously communicates two conflicting messages. One is an explicit hostile or prejudiced message. But delivered alongside is a second implicit message that “it doesn’t count as hostility or prejudice because I didn’t mean it — it’s just a joke.”

By disguising expressions of prejudice in a cloak of fun and frivolity, disparagement humor, like the jokes above, appears harmless and trivial. However, a large and growing body of psychology research suggests just the opposite – that disparagement humor can foster discrimination against targeted groups.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:00 pm    Post subject:

And this is all happening in a broader context of a culture that is coming apart at the seams, pitting sides against one another. And then layer a prolonged pandemic on top of civil tension.

Domestic violence is up.
Murder is up.
Violence against Asians is up.
Violence against transgender people is up.

People are acting out -- at grocery stores, gas stations, restaurants, school meetings. Violence is being amped up across the board.

So a joke told absent all of the above told in another time, may just be something to roll one's eyes at and shrug off.

But we are here in this time. Society is a tinder box. You can either add to the tinder or dial it back.

There is a great need for humor and comedians. And humor can be used to illuminate the tensions described above and be a potential teaching moment. But that's not what happened.

Chappelle tries to claim he supports the transgender community while he makes transphobic jokes in his stage act. Then his defense is, "I'm just making fun of transgender folk and I can do that because I'm not really transphobic because I had a transgender friend!"

Forgive me but that sounds an awful lot like the, "I'm not a racist because I have a black friend!" defense.

One of the trans groups who experience the highest rates of violence are black trans men. He's putting a target on their backs and he can't credibly claim ignorance of that fact. His trans friend ultimately committed suicide in part because of being bullied for being trans.

He does not deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point or the "it's just a joke!" defense.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:32 pm    Post subject:

LakesGnrLake wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
LakesGnrLake wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Halflife wrote:
PLATNUM wrote:
Where was all this same energy when he was playing crackheads and joking about black people and virtually every other demographic?

He told a few jokes to make a comparison and certain people got triggered.
Nothing to see here.

That the problem. Fake outrage is a thing now. In the context or art nothing should be off limits.


There is a huge amount of violence targeting transgender people, especially transgender women. When people with a public platform pile on to the bigotry (whether joking or not) it can only lead to more violence. This is not nothing. This is not about people being triggered. This is about a vulnerable population with a target on it's back being made into a bigger target. And JK Rowling's bigotry is deplorable too.

You don't have to be transgender to empathize with transgender people. You don't have to be black to empathize with black people. We have a dysfunctional culture that fosters bad feelings toward "others." To emphatically conclude this is simply "fake outrage" demonstrates both a lack of knowledge and a lack of empathy.

The same thing applies when male comedians objectify women in their comedy routines. Women are already targets of violence and objectifying them and denigrating them gives more people permission to treat them as objects. Similarly, after the former guy made Asians a target over the source of the COVID pandemic, violence against Asians in this country increased dramatically. That's not fake, that's fact.


Yikes. So comedians need to watch who they make fun of because of potential violence? Does this only applies to minorities? This kind of post is exactly what Chappelle was going on about in his stand up and I can't believe how what he was trying to get across went over about 95% of people's heads.


Your response is 100% what I would expect from you having read your takes in the political thread for years. So I'm not surprised my post went over your head.


Dave made a point about his trans friend said they were living the human experience and you don't need to understand them, you just need to know they are living breathing and trying to get through life like everyone. Everyone wants to be treated "equally" but then get upset when things don't work in their favor. It doesn't make sense to say treat us like everyone else then get upset when someone makes jokes about a group. And his jokes weren't even hurtful it was literally just him telling his experiences. You make a point to show how these groups are being targeted by hate, which is horrible, but also connects to an old joke Dave used to tell, which was never get into a "who's had it worse" contest with a Jewish person. We're all just trying to survive/live life and if everyone understood that things would be much better.


I am shocked. Shocked! That a pizzagate pushing rube has two cents on this talking point.
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LakesGnrLake
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:26 am    Post subject:

C M B wrote:
LakesGnrLake wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
LakesGnrLake wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Halflife wrote:
PLATNUM wrote:
Where was all this same energy when he was playing crackheads and joking about black people and virtually every other demographic?

He told a few jokes to make a comparison and certain people got triggered.
Nothing to see here.

That the problem. Fake outrage is a thing now. In the context or art nothing should be off limits.


There is a huge amount of violence targeting transgender people, especially transgender women. When people with a public platform pile on to the bigotry (whether joking or not) it can only lead to more violence. This is not nothing. This is not about people being triggered. This is about a vulnerable population with a target on it's back being made into a bigger target. And JK Rowling's bigotry is deplorable too.

You don't have to be transgender to empathize with transgender people. You don't have to be black to empathize with black people. We have a dysfunctional culture that fosters bad feelings toward "others." To emphatically conclude this is simply "fake outrage" demonstrates both a lack of knowledge and a lack of empathy.

The same thing applies when male comedians objectify women in their comedy routines. Women are already targets of violence and objectifying them and denigrating them gives more people permission to treat them as objects. Similarly, after the former guy made Asians a target over the source of the COVID pandemic, violence against Asians in this country increased dramatically. That's not fake, that's fact.


Yikes. So comedians need to watch who they make fun of because of potential violence? Does this only applies to minorities? This kind of post is exactly what Chappelle was going on about in his stand up and I can't believe how what he was trying to get across went over about 95% of people's heads.


Your response is 100% what I would expect from you having read your takes in the political thread for years. So I'm not surprised my post went over your head.


Dave made a point about his trans friend said they were living the human experience and you don't need to understand them, you just need to know they are living breathing and trying to get through life like everyone. Everyone wants to be treated "equally" but then get upset when things don't work in their favor. It doesn't make sense to say treat us like everyone else then get upset when someone makes jokes about a group. And his jokes weren't even hurtful it was literally just him telling his experiences. You make a point to show how these groups are being targeted by hate, which is horrible, but also connects to an old joke Dave used to tell, which was never get into a "who's had it worse" contest with a Jewish person. We're all just trying to survive/live life and if everyone understood that things would be much better.


I am shocked. Shocked! That a pizzagate pushing rube has two cents on this talking point.


ahhh you guys make me laugh
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:15 am    Post subject:

For those genuinely interested in a thoughtful, historical discussion about the concept of "cancel culture" in comedy, I highly suggest listening to this episode of Marc Maron's WTF podcast: "Canceled Comedy" w/ Kliph Nesteroff and David Bianculli.

Marc is trying to get to the bottom of something. What does it really mean to be 'canceled' in comedy? Is it something comedians have always worried about? What does actual censorship in comedy look like? And who or what is traditionally responsible for censoring the comedy world? Marc talks to comedy historian Kliph Nesteroff and Smothers Brothers biographer David Bianculli about the history of comedians complaining they “can’t say anything anymore” and what it looks like when they actually do get canceled for speaking their minds.

It raises a number meaningful points about the historical legacy of protesting comedic "norms" comedy over the last couple of centuries and how it has productively shaped society. The real truth about what censorship is, what drives it and clearly explains the inherent falsity behind the current day claims of the alleged restrictions of "cancel culture".
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