WARRIORS -at- LAKERS - 10/19 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings
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oaktown_dimond
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:00 am    Post subject:

What about a Russ/Bradley back court for now? Hell, let AB play point. Brodie can be an off ball slasher?

AD at the 5, LBJ at the 4... baze at the 3?

We need defense, which is hard to come by with all the early injuries.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:19 am    Post subject:

LakersPimp wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
I think giving Bradley minutes over Monk will send a positive message that says if Monk wants more minutes then he needs to get better defensively. Monk can watch Bradley from the sidelines, emulate what he does. Monk can grow into a role, over the course of the regular season, be ready for the playoffs. Monk has the potential to take the team to the next level.

Look at GS....they won this game with role players playing precise in a system. I do like Bradley...but Monk is more dynamic than him. Our offense is too dependent on AD and Lebron....so their dominance didn't even put a dent on the other players because the lakers ball movement/ other players werent able to apply pressure to the defense. In the playoffs this style is more effective...but I think we should use the regular season to integrate attacking from all angles... just imagine when THT and Nunn come back...do you want them only passing to lebron/ad and standing in a corner.


The Warriors are a better coached team, they don’t worry about whose turn it is next. Their ball movement is a thing of beauty and they look for the better shot, sometimes to a fault. There were moments where the Laker ball movement was amazing but they were limited. It will be fun to see if those moments expand as the season progresses. The Warriors are still a factor in the West but unless they step up defensively with Klay, they will count on offense to carry them. Likewise, the Lakers will need to step it up defensively to compete in the West. Fun first game but there is a long way to go.
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LakerSD
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:50 am    Post subject:

Fortunate they added AB. It was looking like another 20 point loss bleeding through from the preseason until he came in and gave them a bit of a chance.
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:24 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
it's optimistic to say that this is like a bourbon that needs more aging. I'd say that this is like a blended scotch that may need to be reblended.


Ha, maybe so. It's not drinkable at the moment, for sure. I can see what they want to accomplish with the handful of new set plays they've been working on and the general principles, so I'm optimistic that the offense will blend better. Can they overcome the shortcomings? We'll see. They are thinking about it in the right way, and it is different...but it is a LONG road ahead.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:01 pm    Post subject:

oaktown_dimond wrote:
What about a Russ/Bradley back court for now? Hell, let AB play point. Brodie can be an off ball slasher?

AD at the 5, LBJ at the 4... baze at the 3?

We need defense, which is hard to come by with all the early injuries.


The problem with the roster construction to me all offseason was I could only put 4 reasonable defenders together for closing situations. That included Ariza, which is shaky because of how little he played. You could get 5 if Russ stepped it up on that end. Otherwise, we've got too many guys who are either green defensively or can't defend.

With the injuries, that kind of forced our hands to pick up Bradley, but he really is a player you can plug in there to give you two-way minutes.

We most likely need to get to an AD, Bron, Baze, Bradley, Russ closing lineup. Our next best defenders for closing situations are THT/Nunn. THT needs to prove to be a shooting threat. Nunn would likely need certain matchups defensively, but I see us maybe favoring him if he's got it going offensively down the stretch.

The multiple bad defender lineups are going to get destroyed. They'll get better for sure, but come playoff time unless there is serious growth by some of our young guys, they will get picked on relentlessly. So I see us leaning on Ariza at that time, maybe Bradley if he sticks. A little sketchy, for sure.
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LakerSD
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:12 pm    Post subject:

https://twitter.com/bj_metta/status/1450932401098477568?s=21
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:35 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
https://twitter.com/bj_metta/status/1450932401098477568?s=21

The WB / Monk combo was defensively terrible as well. Hopefully they can pick it up, because Golden State completely targeted and abused Melo and Monk to get their open shots off in the second half.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:12 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB
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DrDent
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:26 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
it's optimistic to say that this is like a bourbon that needs more aging. I'd say that this is like a blended scotch that may need to be reblended.


Ha, maybe so. It's not drinkable at the moment, for sure. I can see what they want to accomplish with the handful of new set plays they've been working on and the general principles, so I'm optimistic that the offense will blend better. Can they overcome the shortcomings? We'll see. They are thinking about it in the right way, and it is different...but it is a LONG road ahead.


DB:

I asked this in general when the Russ trade went through and never got a clear answer. Which was, considering the Lakers weakness (one of them) last year on O was spacing, how on earth would this offense work with a guy like Russ whose best attribute (attacking the rim) is the same as LBJ, who is better than Russ at attacking?

The most of a response I got was not here, but from Vog's recent quote of their offense being something like "intelligent movement through chaos" (which sounded more like an ad for some cool new video game toy). What I often saw was more like weekend warrior basketball meets preseason meets confusion. And the D was so up and down. And when it went bad...ewww.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:05 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
it's optimistic to say that this is like a bourbon that needs more aging. I'd say that this is like a blended scotch that may need to be reblended.


Ha, maybe so. It's not drinkable at the moment, for sure. I can see what they want to accomplish with the handful of new set plays they've been working on and the general principles, so I'm optimistic that the offense will blend better. Can they overcome the shortcomings? We'll see. They are thinking about it in the right way, and it is different...but it is a LONG road ahead.


Might not be aged Oban but still a Johnnie Blue
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:48 am    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:


DB:

I asked this in general when the Russ trade went through and never got a clear answer. Which was, considering the Lakers weakness (one of them) last year on O was spacing, how on earth would this offense work with a guy like Russ whose best attribute (attacking the rim) is the same as LBJ, who is better than Russ at attacking?

The most of a response I got was not here, but from Vog's recent quote of their offense being something like "intelligent movement through chaos" (which sounded more like an ad for some cool new video game toy). What I often saw was more like weekend warrior basketball meets preseason meets confusion. And the D was so up and down. And when it went bad...ewww.



I think your description is pretty on point in what it looked like. There are stretches, long stretches, where they are just winging it. You see the iso ball baton handoff kind of thing. My turn, your turn.

"Intelligent movement through chaos" - I imagine this is just referring to principles and pace. What we're trying to accomplish is to not allow the D to load up easily at the point of attack. So all the discussion about moving the ball side to side is with the purpose of keeping that from happening. What you also ideally want is movement on the weakside when this is happening. If the ball is strong side, you want weakside to occupy their defenders so they can't easily help. You want the ball to go from one side to the other and commence a quick attack.

The goal of all that is to get our guys downhill. We want Russ attacking a big off a screen without guys stunting or standing in the way so he can get into the paint and cause chaos. We want LeBron attacking while Russ is doing something else to occupy his man -- ideally cutting somewhere that moves his man with him or screening for a shooter (yeah, right).

LeBron/AD's well-rounded game makes it easier for them to work around Russ. Unfortunately, Russ's game does not do the same for them right out of the box. We saw that in the last game as LBJ/AD's perimeter shots were falling. Problem is, we didn't get either LeBron attacking the rim or Westbrook. We barely ran our actions. When we started to, you saw Russ get his driving layup. The Warriors then zoned and ended that as we couldn't effectively attack the zone yet. Smart move by Kerr, but a temporary one in the long run.

The defense, to me, is a personnel + time issue. We have better defenders injured. We had some wack lineups that won't defend more often than not. Vogel will give guys a chance, they will fail because that's who they are, and then he will reel that in with minutes reductions/changes/etc. Eventually, I think it will net out that we'll become the aggressor on D, which will hide some flaws, engage Russ, and crank up the chaos factor.
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DrDent
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:07 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
DrDent wrote:


DB:

I asked this in general when the Russ trade went through and never got a clear answer. Which was, considering the Lakers weakness (one of them) last year on O was spacing, how on earth would this offense work with a guy like Russ whose best attribute (attacking the rim) is the same as LBJ, who is better than Russ at attacking?

The most of a response I got was not here, but from Vog's recent quote of their offense being something like "intelligent movement through chaos" (which sounded more like an ad for some cool new video game toy). What I often saw was more like weekend warrior basketball meets preseason meets confusion. And the D was so up and down. And when it went bad...ewww.



I think your description is pretty on point in what it looked like. There are stretches, long stretches, where they are just winging it. You see the iso ball baton handoff kind of thing. My turn, your turn.

"Intelligent movement through chaos" - I imagine this is just referring to principles and pace. What we're trying to accomplish is to not allow the D to load up easily at the point of attack. So all the discussion about moving the ball side to side is with the purpose of keeping that from happening. What you also ideally want is movement on the weakside when this is happening. If the ball is strong side, you want weakside to occupy their defenders so they can't easily help. You want the ball to go from one side to the other and commence a quick attack.

The goal of all that is to get our guys downhill. We want Russ attacking a big off a screen without guys stunting or standing in the way so he can get into the paint and cause chaos. We want LeBron attacking while Russ is doing something else to occupy his man -- ideally cutting somewhere that moves his man with him or screening for a shooter (yeah, right).

LeBron/AD's well-rounded game makes it easier for them to work around Russ. Unfortunately, Russ's game does not do the same for them right out of the box. We saw that in the last game as LBJ/AD's perimeter shots were falling. Problem is, we didn't get either LeBron attacking the rim or Westbrook. We barely ran our actions. When we started to, you saw Russ get his driving layup. The Warriors then zoned and ended that as we couldn't effectively attack the zone yet. Smart move by Kerr, but a temporary one in the long run.

The defense, to me, is a personnel + time issue. We have better defenders injured. We had some wack lineups that won't defend more often than not. Vogel will give guys a chance, they will fail because that's who they are, and then he will reel that in with minutes reductions/changes/etc. Eventually, I think it will net out that we'll become the aggressor on D, which will hide some flaws, engage Russ, and crank up the chaos factor.


Thanks for taking the time to explain DB. Funny enough, your explanation helped me "get it" mentally, but practically I think I need to see more of it on the court to..."get it"

I'm also still a bit upset that the fellas were so close to finally getting off the snide with season openers, and were gaining momentum in that third, before the bottom fell out.

I think the key will be if their plan to attack the zone is executed well. They know that will be coming from probably any team they play considering Russ is out there. I think how their execution goes there with Russ and company will be something to watch.

Anyway, Suns up next. Hopefully the Lakers can dish out some payback.

p.s. I was close on the Vogel quote, instead of chaos he said randomness:

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2021/10/15/22729132/frank-vogel-new-lakers-new-offense-scheme-spacing-lebron-james-russell-westbrook-cutting
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