Alec Baldwin accidentally kills film crew member with prop gun
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CandyCanes
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:06 pm    Post subject: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills film crew member with prop gun

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/entertainment/rust-film-accident/index.html

Will he be criminally charged?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Alec Baldwin kills film crew member with prop gun

CandyCanes wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/entertainment/rust-film-accident/index.html

Will he be criminally charged?


This is still unfolding, andI have been reading some accounts from people on set because I am acquainted with someone who was on set. It sounds familiar to what happened to Brandon Lee.

The idea of Baldwin being criminally charged is highly unlikely. There are very strict protocols in place in regards to how weapons are handled on set. There's a chain of command in who is responsible for appropriately prepping and presenting a gun for use by anyone else. Ultimately, the property master in charge of the weapon is the one responsible for making sure that the weapon is either rendered safe, or is being handled appropriately.

There's an outside chance that Baldwin violated that chain of command, but even if so, responsibility will likely fall upon the property department person in charge of the gun.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Alec Baldwin kills film crew member with prop gun

DaMuleRules wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/entertainment/rust-film-accident/index.html

Will he be criminally charged?


This is still unfolding, andI have been reading some accounts from people on set because I am acquainted with someone who was on set. It sounds familiar to what happened to Brandon Lee.

The idea of Baldwin being criminally charged is highly unlikely. There are very strict protocols in place in regards to how weapons are handled on set. There's a chain of command in who is responsible for appropriately prepping and presenting a gun for use by anyone else. Ultimately, the property master in charge of the weapon is the one responsible for making sure that the weapon is either rendered safe, or is being handled appropriately.

There's an outside chance that Baldwin violated that chain of command, but even if so, responsibility will likely fall upon the property department person in charge of the gun.

Criminal charges, no. Lawsuit(s)...?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:37 pm    Post subject:

Prop guy or gal screwed up. Honestly after the Brandon Lee incident I'm surprised they don't wear bulletproof vests when filming with a prop gun.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Alec Baldwin kills film crew member with prop gun

DaMuleRules wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/entertainment/rust-film-accident/index.html

Will he be criminally charged?


This is still unfolding, andI have been reading some accounts from people on set because I am acquainted with someone who was on set. It sounds familiar to what happened to Brandon Lee.

The idea of Baldwin being criminally charged is highly unlikely. There are very strict protocols in place in regards to how weapons are handled on set. There's a chain of command in who is responsible for appropriately prepping and presenting a gun for use by anyone else. Ultimately, the property master in charge of the weapon is the one responsible for making sure that the weapon is either rendered safe, or is being handled appropriately.

There's an outside chance that Baldwin violated that chain of command, but even if so, responsibility will likely fall upon the property department person in charge of the gun.


I don’t know how prop weapons work. Why would they give someone a prop weapon that could actually kill someone? Seems irresponsible.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Alec Baldwin kills film crew member with prop gun

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/entertainment/rust-film-accident/index.html

Will he be criminally charged?


This is still unfolding, andI have been reading some accounts from people on set because I am acquainted with someone who was on set. It sounds familiar to what happened to Brandon Lee.

The idea of Baldwin being criminally charged is highly unlikely. There are very strict protocols in place in regards to how weapons are handled on set. There's a chain of command in who is responsible for appropriately prepping and presenting a gun for use by anyone else. Ultimately, the property master in charge of the weapon is the one responsible for making sure that the weapon is either rendered safe, or is being handled appropriately.

There's an outside chance that Baldwin violated that chain of command, but even if so, responsibility will likely fall upon the property department person in charge of the gun.

Criminal charges, no. Lawsuit(s)...?


That for sure. It will all come down to whether the person responsible for prepping the gun made a mistake, or whether protocols were broken after the fact.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:45 pm    Post subject:

even blanks can kill if close enough.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Alec Baldwin kills film crew member with prop gun

CandyCanes wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/entertainment/rust-film-accident/index.html

Will he be criminally charged?


This is still unfolding, andI have been reading some accounts from people on set because I am acquainted with someone who was on set. It sounds familiar to what happened to Brandon Lee.

The idea of Baldwin being criminally charged is highly unlikely. There are very strict protocols in place in regards to how weapons are handled on set. There's a chain of command in who is responsible for appropriately prepping and presenting a gun for use by anyone else. Ultimately, the property master in charge of the weapon is the one responsible for making sure that the weapon is either rendered safe, or is being handled appropriately.

There's an outside chance that Baldwin violated that chain of command, but even if so, responsibility will likely fall upon the property department person in charge of the gun.


I don’t know how prop weapons work. Why would they give someone a prop weapon that could actually kill someone? Seems irresponsible.


Blanks actually have a soft projectile. It's a piece of wadding that is in place to make the "blank" cartridge fire. It's considered safe, but if someone is too close when it is discharged, it can cause lethal damage.

As an editor who has CGI'd gun fire in the past, I'm stunned that they still go with blanks. I get why they want authenticity for the practical effect, but I'm not sure it's worth the risk these days.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:55 pm    Post subject:

What? Craziest ish I've heard in a while...and that's saying something. Major Crow vibes.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:22 pm    Post subject:

What a horrible way to die. Damn. And Baldwin must feel awful.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:24 pm    Post subject:

EchoZulu wrote:
What? Craziest ish I've heard in a while...and that's saying something. Major Crow vibes.


The dude from Voyager from the 80s is the 3rd one I can think of.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:18 am    Post subject:

Damn, that's awful poor crew member just trying to do his job gets offed by a prop gun. My condolences to his friends and family. There should be stricter protocols for prop weapons used on sets.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:19 am    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
Damn, that's awful poor crew member just trying to do his job gets offed by a prop gun. My condolences to his friends and family. There should be stricter protocols for prop weapons used on sets.


It was a woman - Director of Photography.

Quote:
Director of photography Halyna Hutchins, 42, was transported to the hospital via helicopter and pronounced dead by medical personnel at University of New Mexico Hospital, according to the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:34 am    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
Damn, that's awful poor crew member just trying to do his job gets offed by a prop gun. My condolences to his friends and family. There should be stricter protocols for prop weapons used on sets.


My wife works in production. There are very strict protocols in place in regards to who has access, when and how. Someone clearly broke those.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:40 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
Damn, that's awful poor crew member just trying to do his job gets offed by a prop gun. My condolences to his friends and family. There should be stricter protocols for prop weapons used on sets.


It was a woman - Director of Photography.

Quote:
Director of photography Halyna Hutchins, 42, was transported to the hospital via helicopter and pronounced dead by medical personnel at University of New Mexico Hospital, according to the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office.

Terrible tragedy.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:48 am    Post subject:

One article is saying he "accidentally fired" the gun. Wonder what that means?

Quote:
Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed and director Joel Souza was injured Thursday after star and producer Baldwin, 63, accidentally misfired a prop gun at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set in New Mexico. Upon further investigation, the local sheriff's department learned that Hutchins, 42, and Souza, 48, were "shot when a prop firearm was discharged" by Baldwin.


I wonder if this happened in the middle of a scene because it'd be weird how the Director and the Cinematographer were hit. I'd imagine they'd be behind the camera and the gun wouldn't be pointed at them.

According to Debra Messing, it was used in a scene. Now, I don't think she was actually there, so I don't know where she's getting her info at.

Quote:
"It is absolutely NOT. A prop gun was handed to him. He used it in the scene. Then- a catastrophic event happened where Halnya [sic] Hutchins lost her life and Joel Souza was injured. I am praying for all of their families," wrote Messing.


Baldwin's spokesperson says he fired blanks:

Quote:
A spokesperson for Baldwin said there was an accident on the set involving the misfire of a prop gun with blanks.


Seems that it was either: (1) an accidental discharge or (2) intentional discharge of a gun firing (supposed blanks)

Quote:
Accidental discharges or guns firing blanks have been blamed for deaths in past movie productions.


Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:57 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:52 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
Damn, that's awful poor crew member just trying to do his job gets offed by a prop gun. My condolences to his friends and family. There should be stricter protocols for prop weapons used on sets.


It was a woman - Director of Photography.

Quote:
Director of photography Halyna Hutchins, 42, was transported to the hospital via helicopter and pronounced dead by medical personnel at University of New Mexico Hospital, according to the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office.

Terrible tragedy.


And very preventable. The head of Local 44 (which includes prop masters) said in an email to its members that it was a "live" round and that the prop master on set was non-union. There's an instagram account from someone on the movie who has been complaining about the excessive hours and working conditions in the days before this incident. And Baldwin himself has deleted his account after he posted several things about being exhausted.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:53 am    Post subject:

Just awful. I'm sure Baldwin feels horrible.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:04 am    Post subject:

This sounds very strange. While the wadding from a blank could kill at close range, hard to imagine any normal blank component being able to go through two people. I’m wondering if they were using dummy as opposed to blank rounds for visual purposes of the close up shot on the gun (similar to the Crow) and somehow someone got a live round in there.

Edit, see that Mule heard that might be the case.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:49 am    Post subject:

It's just applied physics. Even though the wad has a relatively small mass, the muzzle velocity at short range is extremely dangerous. From what I understand handguns are typically aimed well outside (upstage) of the targeted actor, to the outside from where the cameras are filming. Being that cameras are one-eyed, the lack of depth perception makes it look like the handgun is being aimed directly at the targeted actor.

Handguns are pretty safe and not prone to accidental discharge, other than a misfire or hangfire which but rarely happens. If that's the case you're supposed to keep the muzzle away from harm's way and wait for the potentially delayed ignition of the gunpowder. My guess is that either Baldwin didn't aim properly or perhaps he didn't realize (wasn't properly trained) as to what to do in the event of a hangfire.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:53 am    Post subject:

NMLaker wrote:
even blanks can kill if close enough.


Very true.

RIP to Halyna Hutchins and condolences to her loved ones.🥀


Last edited by Black20Ice on Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:05 am    Post subject:

Washington Post: What is the prop gun Alec Baldwin used, and why are they still on film sets?

Quote:
As firearms experts, writers and producers wondered aloud how this happened, there’s a renewed spotlight on prop guns, their history in film and TV, and why firearms are still showing up on set. While some producers insist on using prop guns with blanks to closely capture the sound and look of a real gun firing, others have been calling for them to be banished from film sets, saying that computer-generated imaging offers a safer alternative.

“There’s no reason to have guns loaded with blanks or anything on set anymore,” tweeted director Craig Zobel, whose credits include the 2020 film “The Hunt” and HBO’s “Mare of Easttown.” “Should just be fully outlawed. There’s computers now.”


Juan Rios, a spokesperson for the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office, said detectives are investigating what type of projectile discharged from the prop gun, as well as how many firearms were on set and how they were handled. Rios said he expects the sheriff’s office will have more information early next week.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:06 am    Post subject:

Baldwin statement

Quote:
On Friday, Baldwin tweeted, expressing his condolences to Hutchins' family and calling the shooting an accident.

“There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours. I’m fully cooperating with the police investigation,” he wrote on Twitter. “My heart is broken for her husband, their son, and all who knew and loved Halyna.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:14 am    Post subject:

Let's get a statement from the POS that loaded the gun

Let's get a statement from the directing crew about WHO chose live rounds.

Baldwin should sue the pants off these mental midgets that caused this

Just horrible all around
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:25 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Washington Post: What is the prop gun Alec Baldwin used, and why are they still on film sets?

Quote:
As firearms experts, writers and producers wondered aloud how this happened, there’s a renewed spotlight on prop guns, their history in film and TV, and why firearms are still showing up on set. While some producers insist on using prop guns with blanks to closely capture the sound and look of a real gun firing, others have been calling for them to be banished from film sets, saying that computer-generated imaging offers a safer alternative.

“There’s no reason to have guns loaded with blanks or anything on set anymore,” tweeted director Craig Zobel, whose credits include the 2020 film “The Hunt” and HBO’s “Mare of Easttown.” “Should just be fully outlawed. There’s computers now.”


Juan Rios, a spokesperson for the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office, said detectives are investigating what type of projectile discharged from the prop gun, as well as how many firearms were on set and how they were handled. Rios said he expects the sheriff’s office will have more information early next week.


There really is no reason to have gunfire as a practical effect on set. Years ago I was the VFX editor on an Antoine Fuqua pilot that involved lots of gunfire. I comped in all the muzzle flashes over the practical ones, thus making them unnecessary in the first place. And sonically, practical gunfire is always replaced with enhanced sound effects on the dub stage.
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He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
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