We can salvage this season if we swallow our pride and trade Westbrook
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:38 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
A big issue with Westbrook is he speeds up the pace, whether that's good or bad for a team, and whether there is a purpose for speeding the pace. AD and Lebron work better at a slower pace, but Westbrook doesn't know how to play that way and he really can't adjust his game, because his game is based on athleticism rather than basketball IQ.


That's the challenge for this season. I'm not sure whether Westbrook can adjust. He's never done it before. But sometimes people will surprise you.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:49 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Posted this in another thread. We may be giving Westbrook too much blame. I don't think WB has been good, or a net +. Thus far he has been a net negative in my eyes.

However, Lebron has helped form two other massive overhauls and 3 all-stars teaming up formations: Cleveland with Kyrie/Love in 14-15. Bosh/Wade in Miami in '10-11.

This with Bron in his athletic prime. Miami was 9-8 at one point. The Cavs, fell to 19-20 (39 games in, sub .500). Both teams regrouped and made the NBA Finals.

Not sure if it will be relevant to our situation or roster. But it does seem when Bron forms a new star trio, initially it does not work. It takes quite a bit of time to even become a good team. Both teams were .500 or sub .500 level teams for eiter 1/4 or 1/2 the season. Lebron himself tends to "take over the reigns" as the season develops.

It really seems to be quite difficult to make changes and have 3 stars play together, at first. We made massive changes, and I think the initial returns are similar to those of Miami/Cleveland, and we have had Bron miss almost 75% of our games. I don't think we will see the real basketball ability from this team before the 3rd and 4th quarters of the RS.

My concern is that AD is healthy now, but no guarantee he will be then. I also have concern that Bron has missed so much time, that the much needed chemistry needed between the big 3, will take even more time, to form. I have come to realize that while Westbrook is a very tough player to fit in. Blaming him alone for the team's struggles, is rather unfair. The previous Bron team's who went this route with massive changes and 3 stars playing together, struggled just as much. I don't know if we will figure it out like them, but certainly I don't think Westbrook alone is the reason this is happening.

miami was 9-8, but lebron played all the games.
we are 9-9 with lebron missing 10 games. i agree WB wasn't at his best all the time, but what would our record be without him and lebron missing all these games?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:06 am    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Posted this in another thread. We may be giving Westbrook too much blame. I don't think WB has been good, or a net +. Thus far he has been a net negative in my eyes.

However, Lebron has helped form two other massive overhauls and 3 all-stars teaming up formations: Cleveland with Kyrie/Love in 14-15. Bosh/Wade in Miami in '10-11.

This with Bron in his athletic prime. Miami was 9-8 at one point. The Cavs, fell to 19-20 (39 games in, sub .500). Both teams regrouped and made the NBA Finals.

Not sure if it will be relevant to our situation or roster. But it does seem when Bron forms a new star trio, initially it does not work. It takes quite a bit of time to even become a good team. Both teams were .500 or sub .500 level teams for eiter 1/4 or 1/2 the season. Lebron himself tends to "take over the reigns" as the season develops.

It really seems to be quite difficult to make changes and have 3 stars play together, at first. We made massive changes, and I think the initial returns are similar to those of Miami/Cleveland, and we have had Bron miss almost 75% of our games. I don't think we will see the real basketball ability from this team before the 3rd and 4th quarters of the RS.

My concern is that AD is healthy now, but no guarantee he will be then. I also have concern that Bron has missed so much time, that the much needed chemistry needed between the big 3, will take even more time, to form. I have come to realize that while Westbrook is a very tough player to fit in. Blaming him alone for the team's struggles, is rather unfair. The previous Bron team's who went this route with massive changes and 3 stars playing together, struggled just as much. I don't know if we will figure it out like them, but certainly I don't think Westbrook alone is the reason this is happening.

miami was 9-8, but lebron played all the games.
we are 9-9 with lebron missing 10 games. i agree WB wasn't at his best all the time, but what would our record be without him and lebron missing all these games?


Buddy Hield, Caruso, Kuzma (instead of Melo), and KCP would be carrying us to an undefeated record!

Jokes aside this is just par for the course. Just how Lakers fans are. Dramatic.
If we ran everything back with last years team this year. There would still be similar negative threads.
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Last edited by kikanga on Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:07 am    Post subject:

Even assuming we could find a trade partner, trading Westbrook will never happen this season. The FO will want to give this team every chance it can get under the assumption that if its healthy come playoff time, this team will have earned enough wins to be in the playoffs and will be able to compete.

For fun, some trades within the world of some possibility that work financially (saying nothing about the other side agreeing):

1. Indiana: Myles Turner, Jeremy Lamb, TJ McConnel and Torrey Craig for RW
2. Indiana: TJ Warren, Jeremy Lamb, TJ McConnel, Justin Holiday and Torrey Craig for RW
3. Cleveland: Kevin Love and Cedi Osmam for RW
4. Charlotte: Gordan Haywood and Kelly Oubre Jr for RW
5. Boston: Al Horford and Jason Richardson for RW
6. Orlando: Gary Harris, Terrence Ross and Robin Lopez for RW
7. Minnesota: Patrick Beverly, Taurean Prince and Malik Beasley for RW
8. New Orleans: Valanciunas, Josh Hart, Tomas Sataronsky and Gary Temple for RW
9. Sacramento: Buddy Hield, Tristan Thompson, Mo Harkless and Damien Jones for RW
10. Sacramento: Harrison Barnes, Tristan Thompson, Mo Harkless and Damien Jones for RW

Realistically, however, it is unlikely any team will trade for Westbrook right now. There is a chance in the offseason once he opts into his final year. A lottery team (like Sacramento, Orlando, Minnesota, etc.) or maybe a former playoff team ready to completely rebuild or a team already in the middle of its rebuiild (seeing his contract as an expiring that could get a bunch of long term contracts off the books) may be willing to take a shot. However, that's our only hope.
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Laker4lifer4real
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:30 pm    Post subject:

I can only see a trade working for Defensive players from your list.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:37 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Posted this in another thread. We may be giving Westbrook too much blame. I don't think WB has been good, or a net +. Thus far he has been a net negative in my eyes.

However, Lebron has helped form two other massive overhauls and 3 all-stars teaming up formations: Cleveland with Kyrie/Love in 14-15. Bosh/Wade in Miami in '10-11.

This with Bron in his athletic prime. Miami was 9-8 at one point. The Cavs, fell to 19-20 (39 games in, sub .500). Both teams regrouped and made the NBA Finals.

Not sure if it will be relevant to our situation or roster. But it does seem when Bron forms a new star trio, initially it does not work. It takes quite a bit of time to even become a good team. Both teams were .500 or sub .500 level teams for eiter 1/4 or 1/2 the season. Lebron himself tends to "take over the reigns" as the season develops.

It really seems to be quite difficult to make changes and have 3 stars play together, at first. We made massive changes, and I think the initial returns are similar to those of Miami/Cleveland, and we have had Bron miss almost 75% of our games. I don't think we will see the real basketball ability from this team before the 3rd and 4th quarters of the RS.

My concern is that AD is healthy now, but no guarantee he will be then. I also have concern that Bron has missed so much time, that the much needed chemistry needed between the big 3, will take even more time, to form. I have come to realize that while Westbrook is a very tough player to fit in. Blaming him alone for the team's struggles, is rather unfair. The previous Bron team's who went this route with massive changes and 3 stars playing together, struggled just as much. I don't know if we will figure it out like them, but certainly I don't think Westbrook alone is the reason this is happening.

miami was 9-8, but lebron played all the games.
we are 9-9 with lebron missing 10 games. i agree WB wasn't at his best all the time, but what would our record be without him and lebron missing all these games?


Buddy Hield, Caruso, Kuzma (instead of Melo), and KCP would be carrying us to an undefeated record!

Jokes aside this is just par for the course. Just how Lakers fans are. Dramatic.
If we ran everything back with last years team this year. There would still be similar negative threads.


We went 7-9 against mostly playoff teams without Lebron AND AD. I have a hard time imagining we would've fared worse with them and a healthy AD and a cupcake schedule.

The bar has lowered so much for Westbrook.
In the offseason: We cant win games without Lebron!
Now that we suck and have Westbrook: Wait for Lebron to be healthy!
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:06 pm    Post subject:

This thread title is so embarrassing. It make me cringe every time I see it.
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unleasHell
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:41 pm    Post subject:

Can't think of any Team, besides the Knicks that would take him...lol
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:44 pm    Post subject:

No one wants that albatross contract
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:57 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Posted this in another thread. We may be giving Westbrook too much blame. I don't think WB has been good, or a net +. Thus far he has been a net negative in my eyes.

However, Lebron has helped form two other massive overhauls and 3 all-stars teaming up formations: Cleveland with Kyrie/Love in 14-15. Bosh/Wade in Miami in '10-11.

This with Bron in his athletic prime. Miami was 9-8 at one point. The Cavs, fell to 19-20 (39 games in, sub .500). Both teams regrouped and made the NBA Finals.

Not sure if it will be relevant to our situation or roster. But it does seem when Bron forms a new star trio, initially it does not work. It takes quite a bit of time to even become a good team. Both teams were .500 or sub .500 level teams for eiter 1/4 or 1/2 the season. Lebron himself tends to "take over the reigns" as the season develops.

It really seems to be quite difficult to make changes and have 3 stars play together, at first. We made massive changes, and I think the initial returns are similar to those of Miami/Cleveland, and we have had Bron miss almost 75% of our games. I don't think we will see the real basketball ability from this team before the 3rd and 4th quarters of the RS.

My concern is that AD is healthy now, but no guarantee he will be then. I also have concern that Bron has missed so much time, that the much needed chemistry needed between the big 3, will take even more time, to form. I have come to realize that while Westbrook is a very tough player to fit in. Blaming him alone for the team's struggles, is rather unfair. The previous Bron team's who went this route with massive changes and 3 stars playing together, struggled just as much. I don't know if we will figure it out like them, but certainly I don't think Westbrook alone is the reason this is happening.


The issue is not that we have so many issues right now and Westbrook is the only reason.

We have a lot of issues that we can fix.

But what we can’t fix is that Westbrook is a broken player that don’t fit in a championship team, and if he has high usage rate, he will be the sole reason that we will be capped as a first or at most second round this year.

We can fix team issues, but we can’t fix Westbrook game.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:59 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
activeverb wrote:
A big issue with Westbrook is he speeds up the pace, whether that's good or bad for a team, and whether there is a purpose for speeding the pace. AD and Lebron work better at a slower pace, but Westbrook doesn't know how to play that way and he really can't adjust his game, because his game is based on athleticism rather than basketball IQ.


That's the challenge for this season. I'm not sure whether Westbrook can adjust. He's never done it before. But sometimes people will surprise you.


If he could, he would have done it long time ago.
And he has no offball game.

And he has no team defense awareness.

These are things that can be fixed
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:34 pm    Post subject:

31-13-10-2

Another Russ mic drop.

Lock this thread.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:00 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
activeverb wrote:
A big issue with Westbrook is he speeds up the pace, whether that's good or bad for a team, and whether there is a purpose for speeding the pace. AD and Lebron work better at a slower pace, but Westbrook doesn't know how to play that way and he really can't adjust his game, because his game is based on athleticism rather than basketball IQ.


That's the challenge for this season. I'm not sure whether Westbrook can adjust. He's never done it before. But sometimes people will surprise you.


That’s an exercise in futility. He is who he is. This team is Lebron ball. He is not fit next to Lebron. He needs the ball to be effective. We need Lebron to have the ball for our team to have that rhythm. I am hoping somehow someway team will figure it out. But hope is not a good strategy.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:36 am    Post subject:

BynumForThree wrote:
We should get some solid 3-and-D guards to replace him. Maybe some players like Caruso and KCP.

And nice wingman who can defend and occasionally go off on offense like a Kyle Kuzma would be good.


And a first round playoff exit lol.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:41 am    Post subject:

Last 3 games - +8, 0, +14.

Like I've said, he is starting to become an asset and not a problem. Like all stars, he will have those bad games that stick out. However if you compare his play from 2 weeks ago. Then you compare his play to 4 weeks ago. He's much better across the board. The team has started to understand him a lot better and vice-versa.

When you combine his 3rd Q impact and abilty to take over a game by himself with Lebron's 4th Q ability to close a game and orchestrate an offense, I think we have something there.

There's been an improvement, but I'm not going to pretend that it makes up for the poor play at the start of the season. It's been rough, but we need to acknowledge has has significantly improved his play.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:35 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

<snip>
It's been rough, but we need to acknowledge has has significantly improved his play.


Agreed, there's definitely been an improvement. In particular, there are stretches where he plays decent (as opposed to stupid) defense. Now if he can keep building on this ...
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:40 am    Post subject:

it's hard to find a team who'd absorb his contract though...
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:31 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Last 3 games - +8, 0, +14.

Like I've said, he is starting to become an asset and not a problem. Like all stars, he will have those bad games that stick out. However if you compare his play from 2 weeks ago. Then you compare his play to 4 weeks ago. He's much better across the board. The team has started to understand him a lot better and vice-versa.

When you combine his 3rd Q impact and abilty to take over a game by himself with Lebron's 4th Q ability to close a game and orchestrate an offense, I think we have something there.

There's been an improvement, but I'm not going to pretend that it makes up for the poor play at the start of the season. It's been rough, but we need to acknowledge has has significantly improved his play.


Agree.
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