LAKERS -at- CELTICS - 11/19 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

 
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:35 pm    Post subject: LAKERS -at- CELTICS - 11/19 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

Defense, Anyone?... “Guys are going to have big roles if they commit to the defensive side,” Vogel said. “If they don’t, they’re not. It’s that simple.”

The role players certainly got picked on and picked apart tonight.

The Lakers played about 6 minutes of good D in this game. It happened to be the first 6, where they held the Celtics to 9 points. The rest of that first quarter the Celtics would score 21 points, the Laker D was never able to put together consistent stretches of stops.

The Celtics progressively scored more points each quarter as the game went along. It was anyone’s game at halftime, then the Lakers allowed 70 points in the second half. The Lakers fell 130-108 despite LeBron’s return to the lineup.

One hundred thirty points. I’m pretty sure I haven’t had as many negative defensive notes in a single game in a while as this one. And against the Celtics of all times. Grrrr.


LeBron -- -- Good to have him back. Like everyone, a bit sloppy on D. He got caught by Schröder on a change of pace for a layup. He had sa poor closed out and Tatum swished an easy three. Tatum got downhill on him for another layup. Offensively, he paced himself. He scored 13 points on 6-10 shooting in the first half. He knocked down some threes and had that turnaround going. Only one FT on a midcourt steal and And-1. But not a lot of pressure on the rim. The Stats: He scored 23 points on 10-16 shooting (3-7 from three, 0-1 from the line) to go with 6 boards, 2 assists, 2 steals, 3 turnovers and 3 fouls in 32 minutes. He was a -4.

Davis -- -- He led the team with 18 points on 7-12 shooting in the first half. Very strong start to this one and we had the Celtics on their heels early. Defensively, guys shot over him a bit. We rotated him on a variety of players trying to keep him in the paint. Horford hurt him a couple of times on pick and pop threes. Vogel called a timeout on one of those. Later, AD would have a bad close out on Horford, who upfaked him then attacked the zone for an easy score. Not the greatest game on D for sure. The Stats: He scored 31 points on 12-21 shooting (0-3 from three, 7-9 from the line) to go with 6 boards, 2 assists, 3 blocks, 1 turnover and 2 fouls in 37 minutes. He was a -14.

Westbrook -- -- He really disappeared in this one. Early on he wasn’t aggressively trying to finish. It looked like he was in a pass mindset where he missed some chances for layups you thought he might take. The lefty bank shot was open for him, either. In the fourth, he had some moments early in the quarter attack on iso for layups. Then he’d string together a series of miscues with wild drives or missed threes and the Celtics extended the lead. Just 8 assists between him and LeBron tonight. His turnovers were light, but still painful. He had a couple in the backcourt, one throwing an advance pass that Tatum intercepted for a dunk. Another he had a push off on an inbounds. The Stats: He scored 12 points on 5-13 shooting (1-4 from three, 1-4 from the line) to go with 4 boards, 6 assists, 1 steal, 2 turnovers and 5 fouls in 31 minutes. He was a -12.

Horton-Tucker -- -- Ouch. After a string of good games, he was MIA tonight. He struggled with some foul trouble early. He got the tough defensive assignment and Vogel said he’s going to be trying to guard the opponent’s best player. Tatum was just too tall for him. Another guy just shooting straight over THT. He helped give up 17 points on 6-15 shooting in the first half to Tatum. Really just warming him up for the second half. He also missed a box out to give up a possession to Smart crashing. Offensively, he had nothing in this one. He made a couple FTs. The Stats: He scored 2 points on 0-6 shooting (0-1 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 2 boards, 3 assists, 1 turnover and 4 fouls in 27 minutes. He was a -12.

Bradley -- -- If Tatum got a switch on him, that was an easy score. Just too big. That didn’t happen too much. Decent game from Bradley actually. He hit a couple threes and played reasonable D. Late in the game after he got a stop drawing an offensive foul on Kanter as AB fought over the top of a screen, he then gave it right back dribbling the ball off his foot right out of bounds. Unforced turnover. Par for the course. The Stats: He scored 6 points on 2-4 shooting (2-2 from three) to go with 4 boards, 1 steal, 3 turnovers and 1 foul in 26 minutes. He was a -7.

Anthony -- -- Don’t get caught up in the three shooting or scoring (3-4), he was actually a really big problem on D tonight. The Celtics cooked him. Schröder targeted him early on, turning the corner and finding Melo out of position and too slow to recover. That resulted in some easy scores. Later in the game, we saw Tatum go after him for layups or FTs. Guys just had big eyes against him and took it to us. Good offensive first half from Melo with 10 points on 2-4 shooting, both makes were from three. But that didn’t make up for the defensive issues. The Stats: He scored 13 points on 3-6 shooting (3-4 from three, 4-4 from the line) to go with 4 boards, 1 turnover, 1 block and 5 fouls in 26 minutes. He was a -16.

Bazemore -- -- He came in with 4:26 left as we sat everyone. Can’t blame him for this one. Tatum cooked our defenders all game, Baze wasn’t in the mix. He did finally score an ANd-1 layup when Dwight found him with a pass under the hoop. He made another on a dive and Dwight again with a high-low found him for the layup. The Stats: He scored 5 points on 2-4 shooting (1-1 from the line) to go with 1 board, 1 assist, 1 block and no fouls in 4 minutes. He was a -2.

Howard -- -- He gave up some jumpers in drop coverage tonight to both Tatum and Schroder. We tried to go without him in the second half, opting for our centerless lineup and that didn’t make much difference. Dwight would show of some perimeter skills in garbage time, hitting Bazemore on cuts for a layups. He’d also sink another three in garbage time in this one, his third this season. The Stats: He scored 7 points on 2-2 shooting (1-1 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 4 boards, 2 assists and 2 fouls in 10 minutes. He was a -9.

Monk -- -- Need a better effort. Smart scored on him a bit early. Tatum had an easy score on iso, overpowering him. He got lost on D and Richardson got an easy putback as a result. Another bad boxout and we have up FTs to Richardson. Little things like this just dig the hole deeper for a team. That’s what gets you a -20. Whereas someone like Reaves knows how to do all those little things to get stops or one and out possessions. We need guys doing the little things around our superstars. The Stats: He scored 9 points on 3-7 shooting (2-4 from three, 1-1 form the line) to go with 1 board, 2 assists, 1 block and 2 fouls in 25 minutes. He was a -20.

Ellington -- -- A nothing game from Ellington as he missed all his threes. Defensively, not a lot of minutes in this one compared to others, but also had breakdowns. He got stuck on a screen and gave up a dunk to a roller on a play where our reaction time was a step early. The Stats: He didn’t score on 0-3 shooting from three to go with 1 board and 2 fouls in 12 minutes. He was a -4.

Rondo -- -- Not sure why we need to run him with LBJ and THT in the mix now. He had a great lob on an attack from the wing to AD for a highlight play. But what you won’t see is on the subsequent inbounds he gave up an And-1 layup to Smart not fully ready on D. He also missed a boxout on Smart to give up a putback. And he had one of the turnovers that led to transition points the other way. Lots of miscues that led to scores for the Celtics. The Stats: He didn’t score on 0-2 shooting (0-1 from three) to go with 2 assists, 1 steal, 1 turnover and 3 fouls in 11 minutes. He was a -10.

Vogel -- -- Key Moment: Might go back to the first quarter on this one when we gave up 21 points in the final 6 minutes of the quarter. First 6 minutes were strong on both ends. Then it was consistently poor all-around ball.

Key Substitution: Some just awful defense by our bench guys. Awful. Melo got torched. Malik was making all kinds of little mistakes to give up scores and putbacks. I really am not sure the purpose of playing Rondo. Another player that we just saw guys take advantage of. Celtics went after our weaker defenders pretty consistently.

Key Stats: Some of the big game scoring we’ve given up has been related to turnovers and poor offense at times. This one, we just had 12 turnovers and still gave up 130 points. Ridiculous.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:06 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB. I cannot imagine the patience you have to do these after an L like this, against the green goblins of all teams. Major kudos to you.

However, I'm really getting tired of watching this group play. The parts just do not seem to fit cohesively. Every time they take a step forward [whether in a quarter, or from game to game], they immediately take a step back. They will go extended, horrific lengths of incompetent basketball that is excruciating to watch - becoming much more of a chore than any form of entertainment.

Long gone is any semblance of defense first identity. AD, post game, said the team could be elite defensively - eye roll. Yea, if about half the roster or so is dumped into the garbage bin.

This team is a complete hot mess at the moment. I said this in another thread, but that panic button looking bright and shiny.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:07 pm    Post subject:

You love it.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:56 pm    Post subject:

Had to chose between getting a much needed swim workout in, or watch the game. Made the right choice .
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:39 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB. Excellent write up and analysis of this stinker of a game and train wreck of a roster. That can't be easy. I really appreciate what you do and the insights you share. You are the GOAT of bb post-game analysis.

That said.. what a sad, sad game.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:31 am    Post subject:

We have the 25th ranked offense and the 19th ranked defense, and even worse we're 25th in SRS (strength of schedule adjusted team ranking).

Through 17 games, we're one of the worst teams in the NBA, with or without a healthy Lebron as far as I can tell.

Anyone else notice how few times Lebron drives and kicks this year? He says he doesn't play to avoid injury, but it sure looks like he's avoiding the paint as much as possible. Russ' presence on the court makes his job harder, but his age and reluctance to take contact is exacerbating the poor fit.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:51 am    Post subject:

We are being outrebounded outscored in the paint being out shot from three point range. Is the same problem in preseason and it carried over to the regular season.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:05 am    Post subject:

So you're saying we are a bad defensive team? I can't understand why that is. Defense is so easy. You just tell guys who have never played defense to all of a sudden play defense and boom... we're good. Why is it not working?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:51 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
So you're saying we are a bad defensive team? I can't understand why that is. Defense is so easy. You just tell guys who have never played defense to all of a sudden play defense and boom... we're good. Why is it not working?

Team D can be much better when players give energy and focus, as seen in the Miami game and a few others

When will leadership on the court make players missing assignments or not providing the needed energy accountable

The inconsistency and lack of growth is the main concern

Monk, Ellington and Melo’s inconsistent shooting percentages, it’s forcing AD and Lebron to take more outside shots (not their strengths)

DJ/Dwight’s return to having more PT is fast approaching

Fascinating that a good two way lineup might include THT and Reeves with AD/LBJ/Westbrook - lol
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:39 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB!!

I’m not a SAS fan but he said LBJ is not winning any
more championships, he’s probably right. This team is
defenseless and starting all over with a new team, again,
would be another long process for the old timer.

We’ll see
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:41 am    Post subject:

Quote:
This is the first time Marcus Smart has scored 20 points since April 9 last season, an OT game. He’s 8 for 11 tonight after coming in shooting 34.6% on the season.


Lakers (No D) efense.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:07 am    Post subject:

That was embarrassing
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject:

This is the 2nd straight year we've had a complete roster overhaul.
Is Rob trying to catch lightning in a bottle?

The team has no chemistry or cohesiveness and they fit together terribly.

Rob should be in the hotseat.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:37 am    Post subject:

Letting AC walk was a massive mistake. It’s hard for me not to bring that up every other game. Letting AC walk for NOTHING? Sheesh. One of our core players and a premier defender in the league and we lose that asset for nothing? Ouch.

Losing someone who can be a star in all the little things around your big name players is why our chemistry has taken a massive hit. Vogel is going to find guys who are the mortar around his bricks in the wall on D. Without that, you can knock us over super easy. AC was instantly that for this team.

Rondo… Monk… Melo’s minutes… Ellington if there’s not a perfect matchup… You don’t give up 130 points to any team without consequences.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:31 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Letting AC walk was a massive mistake. It’s hard for me not to bring that up every other game. Letting AC walk for NOTHING? Sheesh. One of our core players and a premier defender in the league and we lose that asset for nothing? Ouch.

Losing someone who can be a star in all the little things around your big name players is why our chemistry has taken a massive hit. Vogel is going to find guys who are the mortar around his bricks in the wall on D. Without that, you can knock us over super easy. AC was instantly that for this team.

Rondo… Monk… Melo’s minutes… Ellington if there’s not a perfect matchup… You don’t give up 130 points to any team without consequences.


Right on DB.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:57 pm    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
Letting AC walk was a massive mistake. It’s hard for me not to bring that up every other game. Letting AC walk for NOTHING? Sheesh. One of our core players and a premier defender in the league and we lose that asset for nothing? Ouch.

Losing someone who can be a star in all the little things around your big name players is why our chemistry has taken a massive hit. Vogel is going to find guys who are the mortar around his bricks in the wall on D. Without that, you can knock us over super easy. AC was instantly that for this team.

Rondo… Monk… Melo’s minutes… Ellington if there’s not a perfect matchup… You don’t give up 130 points to any team without consequences.


Right on DB.


Asset management is the difference of where the Lakers are relative to the Nets and to a lesser extent GS, who were aided by injuries and got lottery picks.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:05 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Letting AC walk was a massive mistake. It’s hard for me not to bring that up every other game. Letting AC walk for NOTHING? Sheesh. One of our core players and a premier defender in the league and we lose that asset for nothing? Ouch.

Losing someone who can be a star in all the little things around your big name players is why our chemistry has taken a massive hit. Vogel is going to find guys who are the mortar around his bricks in the wall on D. Without that, you can knock us over super easy. AC was instantly that for this team.

Rondo… Monk… Melo’s minutes… Ellington if there’s not a perfect matchup… You don’t give up 130 points to any team without consequences.


Even Kuzma in Washington. He and Trez get there and lo and behold they're winning more. Kuzma's shot is still inconsistent but go on any Wizards boards and they're effusive in praising his defense and rebounding.

The guys we brought in have gaping holes in their games. In the past, a prime LBJ can cover up so many holes but at this point, it's asking him to do too much.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:33 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
Letting AC walk was a massive mistake. It’s hard for me not to bring that up every other game. Letting AC walk for NOTHING? Sheesh. One of our core players and a premier defender in the league and we lose that asset for nothing? Ouch.

Losing someone who can be a star in all the little things around your big name players is why our chemistry has taken a massive hit. Vogel is going to find guys who are the mortar around his bricks in the wall on D. Without that, you can knock us over super easy. AC was instantly that for this team.

Rondo… Monk… Melo’s minutes… Ellington if there’s not a perfect matchup… You don’t give up 130 points to any team without consequences.
Even Kuzma in Washington. He and Trez get there and lo and behold they're winning more. Kuzma's shot is still inconsistent but go on any Wizards boards and they're effusive in praising his defense and rebounding.

The guys we brought in have gaping holes in their games. In the past, a prime LBJ can cover up so many holes but at this point, it's asking him to do too much.
Glad that Kuzma and Trez are flourishing in DC - they are good players

Not under the blinding glare and high expectations of being a member of the Lakers while getting opportunities they would have never gotten with the Lakers - their numbers across the board are up

Same scenario with Ingram and Hart in New Orleans

As Vogel has stated, those that want a big role on playing D will be playing, while those that do not will sit

Since LBJ/AD were a big part of the decision process of the players on this roster, look forward to when AD/LBJ will start having players accountable for mistakes that they are repeatedly making and letting Vogel know when these old vets need a blow

Maybe Reeves/THT are the right players to play with LBJ/AD/Westbrook because they provide what is needed while limiting the PT for Melo/Ellington/Ariza/Bradley/Rondo/etc who can’t play heavy PT because of their age that limits their ability to provide the needed effort to play the D Vogel demands
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:05 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
Letting AC walk was a massive mistake. It’s hard for me not to bring that up every other game. Letting AC walk for NOTHING? Sheesh. One of our core players and a premier defender in the league and we lose that asset for nothing? Ouch.

Losing someone who can be a star in all the little things around your big name players is why our chemistry has taken a massive hit. Vogel is going to find guys who are the mortar around his bricks in the wall on D. Without that, you can knock us over super easy. AC was instantly that for this team.

Rondo… Monk… Melo’s minutes… Ellington if there’s not a perfect matchup… You don’t give up 130 points to any team without consequences.
Even Kuzma in Washington. He and Trez get there and lo and behold they're winning more. Kuzma's shot is still inconsistent but go on any Wizards boards and they're effusive in praising his defense and rebounding.

The guys we brought in have gaping holes in their games. In the past, a prime LBJ can cover up so many holes but at this point, it's asking him to do too much.
Glad that Kuzma and Trez are flourishing in DC - they are good players

Not under the blinding glare and high expectations of being a member of the Lakers while getting opportunities they would have never gotten with the Lakers - their numbers across the board are up

Same scenario with Ingram and Hart in New Orleans

As Vogel has stated, those that want a big role on playing D will be playing, while those that do not will sit

Since LBJ/AD were a big part of the decision process of the players on this roster, look forward to when AD/LBJ will start having players accountable for mistakes that they are repeatedly making and letting Vogel know when these old vets need a blow

Maybe Reeves/THT are the right players to play with LBJ/AD/Westbrook because they provide what is needed while limiting the PT for Melo/Ellington/Ariza/Bradley/Rondo/etc who can’t play heavy PT because of their age that limits their ability to provide the needed effort to play the D Vogel demands
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:05 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Letting AC walk was a massive mistake. It’s hard for me not to bring that up every other game. Letting AC walk for NOTHING? Sheesh. One of our core players and a premier defender in the league and we lose that asset for nothing? Ouch.

Losing someone who can be a star in all the little things around your big name players is why our chemistry has taken a massive hit. Vogel is going to find guys who are the mortar around his bricks in the wall on D. Without that, you can knock us over super easy. AC was instantly that for this team.

Rondo… Monk… Melo’s minutes… Ellington if there’s not a perfect matchup… You don’t give up 130 points to any team without consequences.


I wonder how happy Jeanie is with Rob when she sees AC playing like a demon on D for the Bulls while she’s shelling out 44 million (not including luxury tax) for Westbrook to look useless 90+ percent of the time?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:04 pm    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
Letting AC walk was a massive mistake. It’s hard for me not to bring that up every other game. Letting AC walk for NOTHING? Sheesh. One of our core players and a premier defender in the league and we lose that asset for nothing? Ouch.

Losing someone who can be a star in all the little things around your big name players is why our chemistry has taken a massive hit. Vogel is going to find guys who are the mortar around his bricks in the wall on D. Without that, you can knock us over super easy. AC was instantly that for this team.

Rondo… Monk… Melo’s minutes… Ellington if there’s not a perfect matchup… You don’t give up 130 points to any team without consequences.
I wonder how happy Jeanie is with Rob when she sees AC playing like a demon on D for the Bulls while she’s shelling out 44 million (not including luxury tax) for Westbrook to look useless 90+ percent of the time?
Since AD/LBJ proposed and endorsed the Westbrook trade while working closely with Rob, she’s happy and patient
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