Kim Potter/Daunte Wright trial - Potter found guilty on manslaughter counts
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:09 am    Post subject: Kim Potter/Daunte Wright trial - Potter found guilty on manslaughter counts

Kim Potter is on the stand testifying in defense of killing Daunte Wright. CNN MSNBC airing the trial. She broke down several times. 12/18/2021 Anyone watching?
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Last edited by jodeke on Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:12 am    Post subject:

I can't watch. The last trial, though the outcome was what I hoped for was too taxing.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:13 am    Post subject:

I had forgotten about it..

This is going to be a tough one

Seems the lady truly made a mistake and if I were an officer I would have heightened adrenaline and fear due to

Quote:
warrant for an outstanding weapons violation.
and wasn't complying?

Quote:
Potter, 49, shot Wright after he pulled away from officers seeking to arrest him on a weapons warrant on April 11 in the Minneapolis suburb of Brooklyn Center.
Body-camera video recorded her shouting "I'll tase you!" and "Taser, Taser, Taser!" before firing once.

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/17/1065071626/potter-expected-on-stand-as-trial-in-wright-death-nears-end

Most cases I would clearly see abuse of power and racial overtones but this lady actually made a mistake while under duress of arresting a man, white or black,
who was already arrested for illegal firearms and in her/their mind there was no reason he wouldn't have one on him today

I would deny her from serving anywhere for at least 10 years.

This is a place where some of the qualified immunity is legitimate.
I have seen many cases where it was obvious the cop was just a piece of (bleep) public servant.. and totally abused their position.. this lady made a (bleep) up mistake

If he would've not carried illegal firearms in the past and gone in and taken care of the charges they wouldn't have to be so afraid to come and get him

Quote:
At the time of the shooting, Wright had an open warrant for his arrest related to an aggravated armed robbery, for failure to appear in court, and for charges that he fled from officers and possessed a gun without a permit during an encounter with Minneapolis police in June.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Daunte_Wright#Daunte_Wright

Asking police officers to apprehend men who have already used weapons to rob people/carries the gun illegally.. runs from cops while having a gun... really puts high expectations on their ability to not feel fear and make a mistake...

Out of all the cases I have seen.. I would probably feel the need to acquit her.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:19 am    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
I had forgotten about it..

This is going to be a tough one

Seems the lady truly made a mistake and if I were an officer I would have heightened adrenaline and fear due to

Quote:
warrant for an outstanding weapons violation.
and wasn't complying?

Quote:
Potter, 49, shot Wright after he pulled away from officers seeking to arrest him on a weapons warrant on April 11 in the Minneapolis suburb of Brooklyn Center.
Body-camera video recorded her shouting "I'll tase you!" and "Taser, Taser, Taser!" before firing once.

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/17/1065071626/potter-expected-on-stand-as-trial-in-wright-death-nears-end

Most cases I would clearly see abuse of power and racial overtones but this lady actually made a mistake while under duress of arresting a man, white or black,
who was already arrested for illegal firearms and in her/their mind there was no reason he wouldn't have one on him today

I would deny her from serving anywhere for at least 10 years.

This is a place where some of the qualified immunity is legitimate.
I have seen many cases where it was obvious the cop was just a piece of (bleep) public servant.. and totally abused their position.. this lady made a (bleep) up mistake

If he would've not carried illegal firearms in the past and gone in and taken care of the charges they wouldn't have to be so afraid to come and get him

Quote:
At the time of the shooting, Wright had an open warrant for his arrest related to an aggravated armed robbery, for failure to appear in court, and for charges that he fled from officers and possessed a gun without a permit during an encounter with Minneapolis police in June.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Daunte_Wright#Daunte_Wright

Asking police officers to apprehend men who have already used weapons to rob people/carries the gun illegally.. runs from cops while having a gun... really puts high expectations on their ability to not feel fear and make a mistake...

Out of all the cases I have seen.. I would probably feel the need to acquit her.

I agree, but then why is she a cop. Is it a quota thing? If she were a big strong white guy does it change your mind?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:33 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
I had forgotten about it..

This is going to be a tough one

Seems the lady truly made a mistake and if I were an officer I would have heightened adrenaline and fear due to

Quote:
warrant for an outstanding weapons violation.
and wasn't complying?

Quote:
Potter, 49, shot Wright after he pulled away from officers seeking to arrest him on a weapons warrant on April 11 in the Minneapolis suburb of Brooklyn Center.
Body-camera video recorded her shouting "I'll tase you!" and "Taser, Taser, Taser!" before firing once.

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/17/1065071626/potter-expected-on-stand-as-trial-in-wright-death-nears-end

Most cases I would clearly see abuse of power and racial overtones but this lady actually made a mistake while under duress of arresting a man, white or black,
who was already arrested for illegal firearms and in her/their mind there was no reason he wouldn't have one on him today

I would deny her from serving anywhere for at least 10 years.

This is a place where some of the qualified immunity is legitimate.
I have seen many cases where it was obvious the cop was just a piece of (bleep) public servant.. and totally abused their position.. this lady made a (bleep) up mistake

If he would've not carried illegal firearms in the past and gone in and taken care of the charges they wouldn't have to be so afraid to come and get him

Quote:
At the time of the shooting, Wright had an open warrant for his arrest related to an aggravated armed robbery, for failure to appear in court, and for charges that he fled from officers and possessed a gun without a permit during an encounter with Minneapolis police in June.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Daunte_Wright#Daunte_Wright

Asking police officers to apprehend men who have already used weapons to rob people/carries the gun illegally.. runs from cops while having a gun... really puts high expectations on their ability to not feel fear and make a mistake...

Out of all the cases I have seen.. I would probably feel the need to acquit her.

I agree, but then why is she a cop. Is it a quota thing? If she were a big strong white guy does it change your mind?


Good question... Not really mainly because of the body camera audio and the pain he/she expressed after it happened...

The Aurora, CO officers who murdered Elijah MCClain --They went back to the place of death after tear gassing protestors during the demonstrations and took pictures re-enacting the murder and smiling.. That behavior is enough to make me want to remove them from the gene pool
https://www.google.com/search?q=officers+who+murdered+elijah+mcclain+took+pictures+re-enacting+choke+hold
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:12 pm    Post subject:

Potter breaking down on the stand seemed genuine. It may prove to be beneficial to her. Jury instructions are key.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:08 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Potter breaking down on the stand seemed genuine. It may prove to be beneficial to her. Jury instructions are key.

genuine is great. someones dead and I have to believe when prison is in front of you crying is the only thing to do.

TBh I can rationalize both sides but as a country, and when it comes to firearms situations like this have to fall on the bad side of the argument.

If someone is too keyed up and looks at shooting someone as the only option which ultimately was the wrong one, accountability has to rule.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:28 pm    Post subject:

The charges don't take remorse or accident into consideration. Not sure where this one goes if compared to Botham Jean case where the setting alone made that cop's judgment (while sober, even) stupefyingly oblivious and atrociously shoot-before-questons negligent, which is why this prosecution wants to make it all about Potter's negligence despite the traffic stop scene w/ multiple cops, scared partner's eyes, and wanting to ensure Wright didn't drive off parts.

I think she was negligent because when you train for taser vs gun, you'd best not be dozing off because one is deadly, of course. I don't know how it'd be possible to switch arms and draw your gun and not check for a millisecond if you've got the florescent yellow one in yer hand, but it happened in the Fruitvale shooting (which gives all other accident claims of this nature bad optics). You can't be a ditz and join a job that plays for keeps, men/women both.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:25 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Potter breaking down on the stand seemed genuine. It may prove to be beneficial to her. Jury instructions are key.

genuine is great. someones dead and I have to believe when prison is in front of you crying is the only thing to do.


Worked great for Rittenhouse.

Quote:
TBh I can rationalize both sides but as a country, and when it comes to firearms situations like this have to fall on the bad side of the argument.

If someone is too keyed up and looks at shooting someone as the only option which ultimately was the wrong one, accountability has to rule.


Accountability is the keyword here. This isn't about a simple mistake, as much as Potter and her defense would like to believe.

This about incompetence and negligence. It doesn't matter what her intent was, Potter had no business being a law enforcement officer in possession of any weapon, whether it be a gun, taser or a baton. Her obviously overwhelming fear in dealing with someone who was merely "non-compliant" lead to her making a lethal move that should never have happened.

Potter is not only accountable for her own negligence, her department is accountable for their negligence in putting her in the position to be such a danger to the public.

Potter is the perfect example of why Law Enforcement is so questionable in this country. The training and review is pathetically lax. Police Departments don't care who is wearing the badge.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:17 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Potter is not only accountable for her own negligence, her department is accountable for their negligence in putting her in the position to be such a danger to the public.

Potter is the perfect example of why Law Enforcement is so questionable in this country. The training and review is pathetically lax. Police Departments don't care who is wearing the badge.


Not to go off on a tangent, but police academies have been under some scrutiny in recent years for their high graduation rates.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-chicago-police-academy-met-20170314-story.html
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:36 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:

Quote:

Halflife wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Potter breaking down on the stand seemed genuine. It may prove to be beneficial to her. Jury instructions are key.

genuine is great. someones dead and I have to believe when prison is in front of you crying is the only thing to do.


Worked great for Rittenhouse.


Rittenhouse was so obvious. I didn't believe him at all. Potter is either a better actor or her grief was real. Either way, I think the jury will buy it. I predict acquittal.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:07 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Rittenhouse was so obvious. I didn't believe him at all. Potter is either a better actor or her grief was real. Either way, I think the jury will buy it. I predict acquittal.


The problem is when people try to apply normal cognitive reactions and behaviors to non-normal situations. Questions like, "what were you thinking at that point in time" are simply questions with flawed premises.

To a certain extent training can mitigate this kind of situation, but only to a certain extent. I know she had been on the job for 20+ years, but if she had never been exposed to this kind of situation during that time, then she may have been completely unprepared for it. Some people are calm & rational in these sorts of situations, but others are not, and its hard to predict ahead of time how someone will react in this kind of novel situation.

So depending on her training and previous experience, I can easily see her being mentally checked out when the moment mattered. And if that's the case, I'm not sure what her actual crime is. (But that's a big "if" that relies on a lot of suppositions being true.)

I'm not following this case closely enough to know what she is actually charged with. Is it murder? Are there lesser includeds that the jury can choose? Again, depending on the state of mind she actually was in, I can easily see a jury finding for involuntary manslaughter.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:33 am    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Rittenhouse was so obvious. I didn't believe him at all. Potter is either a better actor or her grief was real. Either way, I think the jury will buy it. I predict acquittal.


The problem is when people try to apply normal cognitive reactions and behaviors to non-normal situations. Questions like, "what were you thinking at that point in time" are simply questions with flawed premises.

To a certain extent training can mitigate this kind of situation, but only to a certain extent. I know she had been on the job for 20+ years, but if she had never been exposed to this kind of situation during that time, then she may have been completely unprepared for it. Some people are calm & rational in these sorts of situations, but others are not, and its hard to predict ahead of time how someone will react in this kind of novel situation.

So depending on her training and previous experience, I can easily see her being mentally checked out when the moment mattered. And if that's the case, I'm not sure what her actual crime is. (But that's a big "if" that relies on a lot of suppositions being true.)

I'm not following this case closely enough to know what she is actually charged with. Is it murder? Are there lesser includeds that the jury can choose? Again, depending on the state of mind she actually was in, I can easily see a jury finding for involuntary manslaughter.


Jury instructions are of utmost importance in this case. They're flexible.

LINK

Quote:
The charges
First-degree manslaughter in this case means prosecutors allege that Potter caused Wright’s death while committing a misdemeanor — the “reckless handling or use of a firearm so as to endanger the safety of another with such force and violence that death or great bodily harm to any person was reasonably foreseeable.”

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:07 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Potter breaking down on the stand seemed genuine. It may prove to be beneficial to her. Jury instructions are key.


I would lean towards expecting an acquittal, but the jury instructions will be critical because while a trial is often to learn the facts, the facts in this case are not really in dispute. She clearly was negligent.....so she really would have no defense in a civil case, but the jury will have to determine if she was criminally negligent.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:25 am    Post subject:

Unrelated to this trial, but something needs to be done about the sentencing in the Rogel Aguilera-Mederos case in Colorado. There is no reality where 110 year sentence is justice for the "crime" he committed. It appears he was negligent and probably will have to face a penalty for his negligence.....but 110 years is a stain on the criminal justice system.

In my opinion, his negligence was in the same ballpark as Potters. Professional negligence that led to a loss of life, but both have sparkling clean records, and clearly had no intention on causing harm to anyone. If I am a Colorado resident, I think I refuse to vote for a Governor candidate in the next election that does not promise to grant Aguilera-Mederos clemency by the end of their term in office.

https://kdvr.com/news/local/thousands-sign-petition-asking-for-reduced-sentence-for-truck-driver-in-i-70-crash/
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:10 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Unrelated to this trial, but something needs to be done about the sentencing in the Rogel Aguilera-Mederos case in Colorado. There is no reality where 110 year sentence is justice for the "crime" he committed. It appears he was negligent and probably will have to face a penalty for his negligence.....but 110 years is a stain on the criminal justice system.

In my opinion, his negligence was in the same ballpark as Potters. Professional negligence that led to a loss of life, but both have sparkling clean records, and clearly had no intention on causing harm to anyone. If I am a Colorado resident, I think I refuse to vote for a Governor candidate in the next election that does not promise to grant Aguilera-Mederos clemency by the end of their term in office.

https://kdvr.com/news/local/thousands-sign-petition-asking-for-reduced-sentence-for-truck-driver-in-i-70-crash/


Not sure I have ever seen this before, but the prosecutor in the case has asked for a review of the harsh sentence.

https://krdo.com/news/2021/12/21/district-attorney-files-motion-for-court-to-reconsider-sentence-of-i-70-truck-driver/
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:29 am    Post subject:

Not being privy to testimony, going by jury instructions, how can Potter be innocent? Using my best Martin Lawrence voice "Wut Da Problem Is?"

Jury in Kim Potter trial ends another day without verdict
By AMY FORLITI and SCOTT BAUER
today


LINK

Quote:
Potter testified Friday that she “didn’t want to hurt anybody” and that she was “sorry it happened.”

Chu told jurors that intent is not part of the charges and that the state doesn’t have to prove Potter tried to kill Wright.

The judge said for first-degree manslaughter, prosecutors must prove that Potter caused Wright’s death while committing the crime of reckless handling of a firearm. This means they must prove that she committed a conscious or intentional act while handling or using a firearm that creates a substantial or unjustifiable risk that she was aware of and disregarded, and that she endangered safety.

For second-degree manslaughter, prosecutors must prove she acted with culpable negligence, meaning she consciously took a chance of causing death or great bodily harm.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:49 am    Post subject:

Honestly, and like you not being privy to testimony but knowing something about the baseline psychology that goes into these things, I don't see either of those descriptions fitting what she did.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:19 am    Post subject:

I think people are getting hung up on the intent part. She never intended to kill Wright, but she intended to initiate an action that was meant to cause harm—using a Taser. And in fact, Taser use has resulted in death. In the process, she neglected to be sure that the weapon of choice was what she actually was about to deploy, thus her actions were negligent and that negligence resulted in death. That negligence needs to be criminally dealt with the same way if a civilian's negligence leads to death. We need to stop giving law enforcement a pass on their mistakes simply because they wear a badge.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:36 am    Post subject:

Guilty on Count 1 of 1st degree manslaughter.
Guilty on Count 2 of 2nd degree manslaughter.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:43 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
I think people are getting hung up on the intent part. She never intended to kill Wright, but she intended to initiate an action that was meant to cause harm—using a Taser. And in fact, Taser use has resulted in death. In the process, she neglected to be sure that the weapon of choice was what she actually was about to deploy, thus her actions were negligent and that negligence resulted in death. That negligence needs to be criminally dealt with the same way if a civilian's negligence leads to death. We need to stop giving law enforcement a pass on their mistakes simply because they wear a badge.


It's like drive-by shootings. It doesn't matter if the person hit wasn't the intended target. Intent follows the bullet.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:46 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Guilty on Count 1 of 1st degree manslaughter.
Guilty on Count 2 of 2nd degree manslaughter.


what's the different between 1st and 2nd degree manslaughter?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:25 pm    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
Honestly, and like you not being privy to testimony but knowing something about the baseline psychology that goes into these things, I don't see either of those descriptions fitting what she did.


My deciphering of these charges lead me to think she's guilty as charged. IMO baseline psychology has no level. I don't think she intended to kill Daunte. Negligence and cause of death are the charges. I don't think those charges leave much wiggle room. I issued, jury instructions would be of utmost importance. Jury Instructions

The charges

First-degree manslaughter in this case means prosecutors allege that Potter caused Wright’s death while committing a misdemeanor — the “reckless handling or use of a firearm so as to endanger the safety of another with such force and violence that death or great bodily harm to any person was reasonably foreseeable.”

second-degree manslaughter charge, which only required a finding of “culpable negligence” that created “unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another.”

She left the courtroom the same way Derek Chauvin did, in handcuffs.
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Last edited by jodeke on Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:44 pm; edited 4 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:43 pm    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
I think people are getting hung up on the intent part. She never intended to kill Wright, but she intended to initiate an action that was meant to cause harm—using a Taser. And in fact, Taser use has resulted in death. In the process, she neglected to be sure that the weapon of choice was what she actually was about to deploy, thus her actions were negligent and that negligence resulted in death. That negligence needs to be criminally dealt with the same way if a civilian's negligence leads to death. We need to stop giving law enforcement a pass on their mistakes simply because they wear a badge.


It's like drive-by shootings. It doesn't matter if the person hit wasn't the intended target. Intent follows the bullet.


Harm that was supposedly allowable to stop much more serious harms being required?

I would rather be tased than shot.
This is a malpractice case with no malice
She had probably passed all department testing and re-certs.. did the system fail for not testing using high stress situations?

sure a person can show you they know how to shoot a gun or a taser but can they do that with an Armed Felon just feet from them whom they fear can get away and shoot innocent people?

Testing should be done under true fear and adrenaline inducing situations

I think her biological took over her training.. she was too afraid in this situation and accidentally grabbed the gun?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 4:40 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Guilty on Count 1 of 1st degree manslaughter.
Guilty on Count 2 of 2nd degree manslaughter.


what's the different between 1st and 2nd degree manslaughter?


Quote:
On the first-degree count, the jury found Ms. Potter guilty of taking a life while committing another crime, in this case, the reckless handling of a firearm. The second-degree verdict represented the jury finding Ms. Potter culpably negligent for the killing.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/kim-potter-found-guilty-of-first-and-second-degree-manslaughter-in-shooting-of-daunte-wright-11640288657
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