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Scherm
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
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 Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:16 pm Post subject: Bill Oram's summary of Pelinka's moves |
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In two straight offseasons, Pelinka has swapped out productive players only to emerge with a team worse than the one that preceded it.
He gets credit for unearthing Malik Monk and Carmelo Anthony has been good, but they are the exception to a rule that includes the touted additions of veterans Kent Bazemore, Wayne Ellington, Trevor Ariza and DeAndre Jordan, none of whom have panned out. Kendrick Nunn, the fifth highest-paid player on the roster, has yet to play a game after a preseason injury.
Pelinka has so casually moved players around that it feels at times like he is building a fantasy football roster rather than a sustainable NBA title contender. The pressure applied by an aging James and his camp doesn’t make his job any easier, but since the Lakers won the franchise’s 17th title in Orlando not quite 16 months ago, Pelinka has traded assets for Dennis Schröder and Westbrook, invested in Montrezl Harrell, dumped JaVale McGee in favor of Marc Gasol, sidelined Gasol by wooing Andre Drummond, chosen Horton-Tucker over Alex Caruso.
None of those moves have worked out.
The Lakers built Rome in a day only to tear it down in an hour.
https://theathletic.com/3115454/2022/02/07/oram-lakers-russell-westbrook-problem-goes-beyond-one-night/ |
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah and if Davis and LeBron weren't hurt last year the Lakers would have won a 2nd chip and none of this would be relevant or talked about. No player Rob could have kept, no move Rob could have made would ever save any variation of a Lakers team that's two stars are injured.
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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^So Bron/AD stay healthy during a full 2019/20 season followed by a 2 month pursuit to the title? You sure that happens with our only perimeter playmaker backing up Bron at fulltime PG being playoff Rondo? I mean Rondo was klutch in the bubble and you don’t think that 4 month pause in season was key? #LayoffRondo
You gotta remember that we whiffed on 2019 free agency and Rob scrambled to put that roster together. I liked adding Boogie/McGee to make sure AD stays healthy throughout the regular season, but Rondo, rookie THT & Cook were our only backups to Bron at point and only Rondo had the ability to carry the offense if Bron was on the bench.
That bubble team was flawed AF if it had to go thru the duress of a “regular” regular 82 game season followed closely by 2 months of postseason play.
Now if every season saw a multi-month layoff between regular season and postseason play, then Rob’s contingency plan in roster construction was satisfactory. But that’s not how a regular NBA season typically plays out…so it’s most likely #GassedKing and #GlassAD that show up during the games that matter.
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | ^So Bron/AD stay healthy during a full 2019/20 season followed by a 2 month pursuit to the title? |
They would have certainly had a shot. The Suns came out of the West but had no answer for Giannis. Lakers were on the verge of going up 3-1 against the Suns when AD went down. |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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^@JC: I was talking about the bubble season team.
Think of it this way, Rob rapidly broke up the bubble title team…why? He must’ve know no 4 month in-season pause was going to present itself again, so instead of running Bron through the ringer, he need a valid perimeter playmaker that could run the team during the regular season while Bron was on the bench. Unfortunately, Rob did not do his due diligence in trading for Schro, cause that dude expected to start next to Bron instead of cover for him off the bench during the regular season.
As for last year, everybody was dealing with injuries but that’s part of the “regular” season grind…Cp3 was dealing with an injury that limited his shooting. So the Suns had their own injuries to contend against.
https://lakersdaily.com/chris-paul-says-he-couldnt-physically-shoot-in-1st-round-vs-lakers-i-dont-even-why-they-was-guarding-me/
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audioaxes
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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I wont fault him for trading for Dennis. We won in the bubble but it was clear we had no legit #3 option as Kuzma failed at that opportunity. It would not have been wise trying to run it back as Lebron+AD+a bunch of role players while other teams were getting better.
At the time Dennis was a great option... came off his best season, above average defender, and just shot 38% from 3. He should have thrived taking some scoring pressure off Lebron as a starter and then shifting a bulk of his minutes to lead the non-Lebron lineups. Plus we only gave up Danny Green (who was disappointing here and we had two players who were better at the 3 and D role than him - KCP and Caruso) and a 1st.
In hindsight that failed but not Pelinka's fault.
I do fault him for one of the worst trades ever in getting Westbrook. I know it was Lebron+AD pushing this beyond dumb trade but as the GM he should have been way wiser to save the Lakers from this disaster. He could have just put up a hardline bargain that the Wizards refuse and then he could just proceed with the Hield trade and shrug at Lebron/Klutch saying he "tried".
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| We don’t know how much control he had on these moves. If we judge him just by MLE/ vet min, he is actually solid. Vet min is always hit and miss. Kieff was an important addition in our title run. Everyone wanted ADii, and he got him, it just didn’t work out. Weakness in 2020 team was scoring off the bench, he got us 2 sixth man of the year candidates. Monk/reaves are solid. |
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kfkilla
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Joined: 31 Jul 2002
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | I wont fault him for trading for Dennis. We won in the bubble but it was clear we had no legit #3 option as Kuzma failed at that opportunity. It would not have been wise trying to run it back as Lebron+AD+a bunch of role players while other teams were getting better.
At the time Dennis was a great option... came off his best season, above average defender, and just shot 38% from 3. He should have thrived taking some scoring pressure off Lebron as a starter and then shifting a bulk of his minutes to lead the non-Lebron lineups. Plus we only gave up Danny Green (who was disappointing here and we had two players who were better at the 3 and D role than him - KCP and Caruso) and a 1st.
In hindsight that failed but not Pelinka's fault.
I do fault him for one of the worst trades ever in getting Westbrook. I know it was Lebron+AD pushing this beyond dumb trade but as the GM he should have been way wiser to save the Lakers from this disaster. He could have just put up a hardline bargain that the Wizards refuse and then he could just proceed with the Hield trade and shrug at Lebron/Klutch saying he "tried". |
Best articulation of what Palinka should have done that I’ve seen. We as fans want to make it black and white and say “well if Bron wanted it what could Palinka do?” The answer is lie through his teeth to save the Lakers! This sort of stuff happens all the time in the corporate and political world. Why would it be different here? Sabotage the deal somehow and say well it didn’t work out. Obviously not so simple but there had to be a an out here for a attorney and master negotiator? |
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Threatt_Level
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Joined: 30 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| kfkilla wrote: |
Best articulation of what Palinka should have done that I’ve seen. We as fans want to make it black and white and say “well if Bron wanted it what could Palinka do?” The answer is lie through his teeth to save the Lakers! This sort of stuff happens all the time in the corporate and political world. Why would it be different here? Sabotage the deal somehow and say well it didn’t work out. Obviously not so simple but there had to be a an out here for a attorney and master negotiator? |
Seconded. There is definitely a poison pill Pelinka could've slipped in there to kill the WB deal and allow him to continue on with the Hield deal. But Pelinka really should've been trying to acquire CJ and RoCo last offseason. He did make the right move in trading for Schroder, but overall he's just really not that good at the job. |
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ducasse
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Yeah and if Davis and LeBron weren't hurt last year the Lakers would have won a 2nd chip and none of this would be relevant or talked about. No player Rob could have kept, no move Rob could have made would ever save any variation of a Lakers team that's two stars are injured. |
I agree. Lakers were going to beat Phoenix before AD went down. The Bucks were beatable and I think the Lakers would have been favored. |
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PenG_
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Joined: 01 Feb 2020
Posts: 10415
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | I wont fault him for trading for Dennis. We won in the bubble but it was clear we had no legit #3 option as Kuzma failed at that opportunity. It would not have been wise trying to run it back as Lebron+AD+a bunch of role players while other teams were getting better.
At the time Dennis was a great option... came off his best season, above average defender, and just shot 38% from 3. He should have thrived taking some scoring pressure off Lebron as a starter and then shifting a bulk of his minutes to lead the non-Lebron lineups. Plus we only gave up Danny Green (who was disappointing here and we had two players who were better at the 3 and D role than him - KCP and Caruso) and a 1st.
In hindsight that failed but not Pelinka's fault.
I do fault him for one of the worst trades ever in getting Westbrook. I know it was Lebron+AD pushing this beyond dumb trade but as the GM he should have been way wiser to save the Lakers from this disaster. He could have just put up a hardline bargain that the Wizards refuse and then he could just proceed with the Hield trade and shrug at Lebron/Klutch saying he "tried". |
Exactly. If Pelinka can't stand up to an objectively awful trade, then give his salary to the "real GM". Pelinka knew his luxury tax limitations going into that trade. He knew ownership wouldn't allow him to re-sign Caruso, Kieff, and Morris. Given those limitations and the resulting opportunity cost, it's a trade that never should've happened. |
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Chick's Magic Johnson
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Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | ^@JC: I was talking about the bubble season team.
Think of it this way, Rob rapidly broke up the bubble title team…why? He must’ve know no 4 month in-season pause was going to present itself again, so instead of running Bron through the ringer, he need a valid perimeter playmaker that could run the team during the regular season while Bron was on the bench. Unfortunately, Rob did not do his due diligence in trading for Schro, cause that dude expected to start next to Bron instead of cover for him off the bench during the regular season.
As for last year, everybody was dealing with injuries but that’s part of the “regular” season grind…Cp3 was dealing with an injury that limited his shooting. So the Suns had their own injuries to contend against.
https://lakersdaily.com/chris-paul-says-he-couldnt-physically-shoot-in-1st-round-vs-lakers-i-dont-even-why-they-was-guarding-me/ |
Remember when we criticized Rob's asset management in the off-season and most people told us to STFU? Where those people now? |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah @CMJ, some of us were just trying to point out that all things weren’t suddenly rosy when Magic quit. Our biggest mistake is that we didn’t do our due diligence to fill a vacant PoBO position…and now the same mistakes with our asset management continue.
Again I wanted the FO to prove us wrong, but here we are. I am firmly in the camp of fans where any major roster transaction should be done under new management. Get them current dudes gone first, then address the roster with our newbies.
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Again... no off-season moves would have rescued the Lakers last season if both LBJ and AD were injured. THAT is the reason we lost more than anything else. If that doesn't happen, we win.
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laker4life
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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The record speaks for itself.
It has been a disaster and it falls on Pelinka.
Ridiculous to make these moves.
We are now a tenth place team.
Ridiculous. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | Again I wanted the FO to prove us wrong, but here we are. I am firmly in the camp of fans where any major roster transaction should be done under new management. Get them current dudes gone first, then address the roster with our newbies. |
Welcome. I think that we're going to be disappointed, though.
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roger_federer
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Again... no off-season moves would have rescued the Lakers last season if both LBJ and AD were injured. THAT is the reason we lost more than anything else. If that doesn't happen, we win. |
Your off season moves help AD/BRon not to overwork against garbage teams. CP3 was injured in that series. But we only talk about our excuses... |
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