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Lakerz113
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:10 pm    Post subject: Obvious Disconnect

I can deal with the lakers having a garbage team, but this situation is so frustrating. I’m not sure who is to blame ownership? Lebron/Davis? Klutch?

What I am certain of is that Vogel was not pounding the table for these signings, given his defensive philosophy.

If I had to guess, Rob tried to satisfy Lebron, AD, and Jeanie’s wants. AD got hit his help at center, Lebron got his other playmakers, and Jeanie got her third superstar to attract fans. What laker fans got is a team that isn’t built around its coach, has no identity, and has no chance of succeeding.

Ownership, coaching, and players go hand in hand. I have no idea how anyone with a clear mind thought this was a good idea.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:11 pm    Post subject:

Doesn’t make sense for Rob to try and appease Bron knowing he has AD locked him and Bron for two more years. Not sure why he gave in if that is what happened.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:13 pm    Post subject:

Mamba Mentality wrote:
Doesn’t make sense for Rob to try and appease Bron knowing he has AD locked him and Bron for two more years. Not sure why he gave in if that is what happened.


Doesn’t make sense to give the best player in the world who won the lakers a title what he wants? He walked off the court last season and I’m sure had something to do with the roster turnover.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:14 pm    Post subject:

They went for a move it was always a stretch for us to believe it would work. Which is why most of us reacted with a lukewarm feeling.

In the end one more season and we’re free. Maybe sooner.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:18 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
They went for a move it was always a stretch for us to believe it would work. Which is why most of us reacted with a lukewarm feeling.

In the end one more season and we’re free. Maybe sooner.


What concerns me is who is they? I refuse all Rob, LBJ/AD,Vogel, and ownership believed in these roster moves.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:20 pm    Post subject:

Lakerz113 wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
Doesn’t make sense for Rob to try and appease Bron knowing he has AD locked him and Bron for two more years. Not sure why he gave in if that is what happened.


Doesn’t make sense to give the best player in the world who won the lakers a title what he wants? He walked off the court last season and I’m sure had something to do with the roster turnover.


It’s great to try and give your best player what they want but within reason. We still don’t know what Rob’s stance was.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:22 pm    Post subject:

Mamba Mentality wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
Doesn’t make sense for Rob to try and appease Bron knowing he has AD locked him and Bron for two more years. Not sure why he gave in if that is what happened.


Doesn’t make sense to give the best player in the world who won the lakers a title what he wants? He walked off the court last season and I’m sure had something to do with the roster turnover.


It’s great to try and give your best player what they want but within reason. We still don’t know what Rob’s stance was.


Well we know with the one year extension and roster construction that they obviously don’t value our coach’s opinion.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:25 pm    Post subject:

Lakerz113 wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
Doesn’t make sense for Rob to try and appease Bron knowing he has AD locked him and Bron for two more years. Not sure why he gave in if that is what happened.


Doesn’t make sense to give the best player in the world who won the lakers a title what he wants? He walked off the court last season and I’m sure had something to do with the roster turnover.


It’s great to try and give your best player what they want but within reason. We still don’t know what Rob’s stance was.


Well we know with the one year extension and roster construction that they obviously don’t value our coach’s opinion.


Yup.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Obvious Disconnect

Lakerz113 wrote:
I can deal with the lakers having a garbage team, but this situation is so frustrating. I’m not sure who is to blame ownership? Lebron/Davis? Klutch?


Ownership. It starts and ends with ownership. Once Jeanie decided to flex her muscles, we were screwed. I had no problem with her getting rid of Mitch and Jim if she was going to bring in good basketball people. But all she did was rely on her friends with no FO experience and hired Magic to run the organization and hired Pelinka as a favor to Kobe. Mitch and Jim would've never made the mistake that Pelinka made this year. They already learned their lesson from 2012-13, and now we're even worse off than we were back then.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:56 am    Post subject:

Lakerz113 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
They went for a move it was always a stretch for us to believe it would work. Which is why most of us reacted with a lukewarm feeling.

In the end one more season and we’re free. Maybe sooner.


What concerns me is who is they? I refuse all Rob, LBJ/AD,Vogel, and ownership believed in these roster moves.

The smaller roster moves have not been so bad. Reaves, Monk, Howard. That is potential 3 starters right there. Melo has been solid as a shooter. Bradley as a defender and off the ball cutter. We don't know about Nunn, but on paper he should be do well considering his skillset. So 6 guys around AD/Bron.

Giving THT the 10M over keeping Caruso was a tough call, and a mistake for the AD/Bron era, but you can at least understand the justification based on THT's age.

The real issue is just the 43M they spent on WB trading away 3 role players that had showed they could contribute. It's been horrible. We can't play AD at the 4. We can't play Dwight at the 5. We can't play Bron at the 3. That's the starting frontcourt of 2 playoff series that won a ring. Then, lets now consider what it does to other spots. It makes us more defensively limited because we have to play small. And it makes us force a pace that again not sure suits AD or bigs.

We have been soul searching all year to find a style that makes it work in the WB era. None of them show they are better than .500 ball
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:43 am    Post subject:

Lakerz113 wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
Doesn’t make sense for Rob to try and appease Bron knowing he has AD locked him and Bron for two more years. Not sure why he gave in if that is what happened.


Doesn’t make sense to give the best player in the world who won the lakers a title what he wants? He walked off the court last season and I’m sure had something to do with the roster turnover.


It’s great to try and give your best player what they want but within reason. We still don’t know what Rob’s stance was.


Well we know with the one year extension and roster construction that they obviously don’t value our coach’s opinion.


I think it’s being cheap. Jeanie doesn’t want to pay for a fired coach. Get used to it, Dr. Buss is gone.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:17 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
Doesn’t make sense for Rob to try and appease Bron knowing he has AD locked him and Bron for two more years. Not sure why he gave in if that is what happened.


Doesn’t make sense to give the best player in the world who won the lakers a title what he wants? He walked off the court last season and I’m sure had something to do with the roster turnover.


It’s great to try and give your best player what they want but within reason. We still don’t know what Rob’s stance was.


Well we know with the one year extension and roster construction that they obviously don’t value our coach’s opinion.


I think it’s being cheap. Jeanie doesn’t want to pay for a fired coach. Get used to it, Dr. Buss is gone.


She is super cheap and it's disappointing. I thought I remembered her saying one time that she wouldn't mind spending the money if we were in championship contention. Well, we let a championship player in AC go...

The Laker brand is still strong because of its history, but this is not the same Lakers organization that sought out excellence.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:22 am    Post subject:

I think a valid comparison is my Chicago Bears, they were an NFL powerhouse under Mr. Halas but once he was gone and the family took ownership, they became just another franchise. Like the Lakers they had that one magical season surrounded by years of mediocrity. I think this is the new normal for Laker fans.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:12 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I think a valid comparison is my Chicago Bears, they were an NFL powerhouse under Mr. Halas but once he was gone and the family took ownership, they became just another franchise. Like the Lakers they had that one magical season surrounded by years of mediocrity. I think this is the new normal for Laker fans.


Sad, but I think you're right.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:46 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I think a valid comparison is my Chicago Bears, they were an NFL powerhouse under Mr. Halas but once he was gone and the family took ownership, they became just another franchise. Like the Lakers they had that one magical season surrounded by years of mediocrity. I think this is the new normal for Laker fans.


If you can get one championship surrounded (a few) years of mediocity, I think most teams and fans would take it. Ironically, I compare the current situation of Lebron and the Lakers to Aaron Rodgers and the Packers. Rodgers became a disgruntled player prior to this season and treatened to hold out and became a distraction to the team. Not that Lebron would have reacted the same but I understood (although didn't agree with) Perlinka deciding to trade for Westbrook on Lebron's behest. Perlinka has been able to find some gold (Monk and Stanley - who essentially took Arriza's role) but I think this off season is where we'll really see Perlinka's worth.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:46 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I think a valid comparison is my Chicago Bears, they were an NFL powerhouse under Mr. Halas but once he was gone and the family took ownership, they became just another franchise. Like the Lakers they had that one magical season surrounded by years of mediocrity. I think this is the new normal for Laker fans.


If you can get one championship surrounded (a few) years of mediocity, I think most teams and fans would take it. Ironically, I compare the current situation of Lebron and the Lakers to Aaron Rodgers and the Packers. Rodgers became a disgruntled player prior to this season and treatened to hold out and became a distraction to the team. Not that Lebron would have reacted the same but I understood (although didn't agree with) Perlinka deciding to trade for Westbrook on Lebron's behest. Perlinka has been able to find some gold (Monk and Stanley - who essentially took Arriza's role) but I think this off season is where we'll really see Perlinka's worth.

Ventura - its good to see you still posting.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:49 am    Post subject:

There are only two people to blame:

1. Jeanie Buss- being hands-off doesn't absolve you of the responsibility of assuring success of the franchise. If you delegate, you are responsible for whom you choose to assume leadership positions, and what those people do. Jim Irsay, owner of the Indy Colts, said it best after the Colt's historic choke-job, "The buck stops with me." Well, the buck stops with Jeanie Buss. She is ultimately the main person to blame for this horrid season.

2. Rob Pelinka- Rob deserves some praise for securing Reaves, Monk, I guess Nunn. He got us Dwight back. But Rob failed to build upon the success of the Lakers championship run. You don't change what's not broken, especially considering you have a Lebron-window. Rob had a Championship team just two seasons ago, and with the same two superstars that helped win that ring, the same team is now a .500 mess. That's on Rob. And it's universally known that the signing of Russell Westbrook is one of the worse decisions in the history of all professional sports.

I don't blame Vogel. Vogel obviously doesn't have much pull in this franchise. His job was to develop a team to an extent to which it could win a championship. He did that. He had a vision for success that was proven. But after he won, he lost key players due to Rob Pelinka's negligence, and those players were not replaced with similar players. As such, he had to re-invent the wheel. Injuries and personal agendas compromised Vogel's success a year after he won it all. Two years after, Rob sabotaged Vogel by getting rid of more key players and saddling him with Russell Westbrook, who, to my count, has significantly contributed to at least 9 Laker losses this season. That, along with Anthony Davis's yearly injury, have made it impossible for Vogel to have any consistency.

While it may be viable to blame players, I choose not to. Yes, Anthony Davis is soft and unreliable. Yes, Lebron is manipulative. Yes, RW is an overpaid, no layup making, brick shooting, turnover machine. But players have the right to be flawed. It's up to management to place then in positions where they can be successful, or remove them from positions if they are a deterrent to team success. We all know that Vogel can't bench certain players (ahem, Westbrook) on this Laker teams, and that's because of upper management.

So, again, the only two people who are truly to blame for this Laker season are Jeanie Buss and Rob Pelinka, in that order.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:08 am    Post subject:

All total blame should fall on Pelinka, he got us in this mess. Shouldve kept Caruso, and traded THT while he had value. Bringing Westbrook will go down as the most EPIC fail and complete closure to any possibility of championship.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Obvious Disconnect

Lakerz113 wrote:
I can deal with the lakers having a garbage team, but this situation is so frustrating. I’m not sure who is to blame ownership? Lebron/Davis? Klutch?

What I am certain of is that Vogel was not pounding the table for these signings, given his defensive philosophy.

If I had to guess, Rob tried to satisfy Lebron, AD, and Jeanie’s wants. AD got hit his help at center, Lebron got his other playmakers, and Jeanie got her third superstar to attract fans. What laker fans got is a team that isn’t built around its coach, has no identity, and has no chance of succeeding.

Ownership, coaching, and players go hand in hand. I have no idea how anyone with a clear mind thought this was a good idea.



This basic post has been written by people dozens of times in the Pelinka and free agent threads.

I don't see why you think it needs to be its own thread.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Obvious Disconnect

activeverb wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
I can deal with the lakers having a garbage team, but this situation is so frustrating. I’m not sure who is to blame ownership? Lebron/Davis? Klutch?

What I am certain of is that Vogel was not pounding the table for these signings, given his defensive philosophy.

If I had to guess, Rob tried to satisfy Lebron, AD, and Jeanie’s wants. AD got hit his help at center, Lebron got his other playmakers, and Jeanie got her third superstar to attract fans. What laker fans got is a team that isn’t built around its coach, has no identity, and has no chance of succeeding.

Ownership, coaching, and players go hand in hand. I have no idea how anyone with a clear mind thought this was a good idea.



This basic post has been written by people dozens of times in the Pelinka and free agent threads.

I don't see why you think it needs to be its own thread.


I was just pointing out that fans can point blame, but what’s concerning is the franchise isn’t working together as a whole. I didn’t think this post belonged in the free agency thread or the Pelinka thread.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Obvious Disconnect

Lakerz113 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
I can deal with the lakers having a garbage team, but this situation is so frustrating. I’m not sure who is to blame ownership? Lebron/Davis? Klutch?

What I am certain of is that Vogel was not pounding the table for these signings, given his defensive philosophy.

If I had to guess, Rob tried to satisfy Lebron, AD, and Jeanie’s wants. AD got hit his help at center, Lebron got his other playmakers, and Jeanie got her third superstar to attract fans. What laker fans got is a team that isn’t built around its coach, has no identity, and has no chance of succeeding.

Ownership, coaching, and players go hand in hand. I have no idea how anyone with a clear mind thought this was a good idea.



This basic post has been written by people dozens of times in the Pelinka and free agent threads.

I don't see why you think it needs to be its own thread.


I was just pointing out that fans can point blame, but what’s concerning is the franchise isn’t working together as a whole. I didn’t think this post belonged in the free agency thread or the Pelinka thread.


As I said, your basic point has been said many times in many other threads. It's okay for you to have a me to opinion. But there is no reason that this needs to be its own thread.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Obvious Disconnect

Lakerz113 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
I can deal with the lakers having a garbage team, but this situation is so frustrating. I’m not sure who is to blame ownership? Lebron/Davis? Klutch?

What I am certain of is that Vogel was not pounding the table for these signings, given his defensive philosophy.

If I had to guess, Rob tried to satisfy Lebron, AD, and Jeanie’s wants. AD got hit his help at center, Lebron got his other playmakers, and Jeanie got her third superstar to attract fans. What laker fans got is a team that isn’t built around its coach, has no identity, and has no chance of succeeding.

Ownership, coaching, and players go hand in hand. I have no idea how anyone with a clear mind thought this was a good idea.



This basic post has been written by people dozens of times in the Pelinka and free agent threads.

I don't see why you think it needs to be its own thread.


I was just pointing out that fans can point blame, but what’s concerning is the franchise isn’t working together as a whole. I didn’t think this post belonged in the free agency thread or the Pelinka thread.


As I said, your basic point has been said many times in many other threads. It's okay for you to have a me to opinion. But there is no reason that this needs to be its own thread.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:19 pm    Post subject:

Did Rob offer Dennis another contract? Did Dennis not want to come back? Lebron wanted someone else to be the engine of the offense in his 19th and 20th year, someone else to consistently break down defenses.

It's unfortunate that our options were so limited, but ownership didn't want to spend once we made the decision. I don't know who's to blame, I just know that it's a bad product.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:04 pm    Post subject:

I sure do hope that Laker brass get wind of what is being said on these forums. This is the pulse of NBA Laker fandom & should carry some weight. I can pretty much bet that for everyone of us that come and post here there are thousands more saying the same things...what a mess !
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:03 am    Post subject:

LBJ is our main guy and the one that the team should revolve around, and not Russ. It could be optics, the FO not wanting to admit that the Russ experiment was a failure, the money we are giving Russ or some other crazy reason, but we need to maximize our championship window with Bron still playing mvp level bball.

Even if this means benching, trading (not happening), reducing minutes or just treating Russ like a role player (if he plays well then ok, if not swap him for someone else) on a game by game basis.

So are we trying to win a chip, or trying to make Russ happy??
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