What is your take on why the Lakers failed this season?
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troy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:17 am    Post subject: What is your take on why the Lakers failed this season?

We here on LG are more informed about our Lakers than other fans, so just hoping that someone can offer an educated explanation as to what in the hell went wrong this season.

How, within three seasons, we could go from NBA champs to not even making the playoffs (and we won't), with Lebron and so many future Hall of Famers on this team.

Some thinking points could be our arrogant, lazy approach to the pre-season, individual performances that didn't meet expectations, key injuries, poor roster construction, age of players, front office leadership conflicts, ineffective coaching, bad luck.

What is your take on what went wrong this season? Hopefully looking for more than just one-liners and hottakes. Long-reads and elaborative analysis are certainly welcomed.
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av3773
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:26 am    Post subject:

1) Trading for Russ, that was a high risk gamble which wasn't needed and he is just not a good fit for this squad - Bad on FO, LBJ and AD
2) Inability for AD to stay healthy, when healthy and playing well he has the potential to clean up a lot of the short comings of this roster - Kind of bad on AD, he should come in with better conditioning and more assertive game, but his injuries have been kind of flukey
3) To much focus on older offensive minded older role players....last years squad could have benefitted from better outside shooting and really we just needed to balance it out a bit, but for whatever reason we went waaaaay in the opposite direction - Bad on FO
4) As noted in the emplay article poor asset management over the last couple of years, letting players walk for nothing limited our ability to keep a decent pipeline of depth - Bad on FO
5) Coaching - the coaching this year has been basement level coaching, Vogel awesome if you give him the exact team he needs to play it seems one very specific way, VERY bad if you need him to adapt his coaching to a roster

So all in all looks like the FO has to own the debacle due to a series of bad moves that didn't just relate to last off season
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:31 am    Post subject:

1. First and foremost, injuries to AD/LBJ. We are a top 4 seed when they are healthy.

2. Russ trade. When you take KCP/Kuz/Trezz/2021 1st/likely Caruso off the rotation, and replace it with a high usage, non-shooter player who can't play off the ball, you are fracked.

3. Rob. He has slowly but surely picked apart the 2020 model for the Lakers (long 3/D players around LBJ/AD) and now we are just filling our main rotation out with players who would be back end rotation players at best on good teams. His over reliance on older washed vets that took up so much of the roster, and the exorbitant cost it would take to waive/re-sign new players made Jeanie and Co. hesitant to cast off the washed players.

4. Ultimately, this is on Jeanie. You can say Klutch had undue influence on trading for Russ, but at the end of the day, the ball is in her court to veto. Her father did that when West wanted Moncrief over Magic for example, and there are countless examples where he said "no" (i.e. trading Kobe). There is no salary cap on coaching staff hires, analytics, cap specialists, the front office, and we are either penny pinching or just hiring based on social nepotism or ties to the Lakers. That is unacceptable.
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:55 am    Post subject:

Selfishness. Shameless stat padding. Even at "full strength" these bozos were playing entire fourth quarters of blowout losses to stat pad.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:10 am    Post subject:

it failed when players realize there's no clear leadership in the front office. Who's the boss here? Vogel? Pelinka? Kurt Rambis? Linda Rambis? Phil Jackson and Magic (behind the scene)? Jeannie Buss? and it didn't help with LeBron just interested in his stats than picking up the leadership role on the court. Russ is the obvious fault guy here, but is he really the biggest problem? i don't think so. this team is rotten from the top.

Last edited by SGV-Laker fan on Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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PenG_
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:32 am    Post subject:

There are a million different reasons but the only one I can really lean on is the stat padding.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:42 am    Post subject:

Trading proven championship role players who defended and played well around AD/Lebron or Lebron or even by themselves, who were still in athletic prime for a cancerous selfish former MVP level point guard past his prime.

In athletic prime:

Kuzma 26
Caruso 27
KCP 28

Trez was in his athletic prime too, and was good for 15 points off the bench.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:46 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Trading proven championship role players who defended and played well around AD/Lebron or Lebron or even by themselves, who were still in athletic prime for a cancerous selfish former MVP level point guard past his prime.

In athletic prime:

Kuzma 26
Caruso 27
KCP 28

Trez was in his athletic prime too, and was good for 15 points off the bench.


I wonder who we would have selected at #21 too. Even a guy like Herbert Jones was a 35th pick.
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:48 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Russ trade. When you take KCP/Kuz/Trezz/2021 1st/likely Caruso off the rotation, and replace it with a high usage, non-shooter player who can't play off the ball, you are fracked.



This, plus injuries as you mentioned.

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Trading proven championship role players who defended and played well around AD/Lebron or Lebron or even by themselves, who were still in athletic prime for a cancerous selfish former MVP level point guard past his prime.

In athletic prime:

Kuzma 26
Caruso 27
KCP 28

Trez was in his athletic prime too, and was good for 15 points off the bench.


Sums it up well.
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King Randle
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:51 am    Post subject:

Sorry long reads are not necessary...it's very simple. Anyone who has followed Russ's career knew this was a bad fit from the get go...horrific trade. Then it was compounded by Rob signing a bunch of old guys who have no business playing any minutes in the league.

Ariza
Elington
Baze
DJ
Rondo
Bradley
Melo (yes at this stage in his career is much more negative then positive)

7 spots of dead weight. Think about this.. we signed Johnson late...Gabriel and DJ very late and they play important minutes. If they just would have gone younger and better choices regarding position (not so many damn guards) then this would've been a much more productive season. Even with the salary constraints.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:53 am    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
Sorry long reads are not necessary...it's very simple. Anyone who has followed Russ's career knew this was a bad fit from the get go...horrific trade. Then it was compounded by Rob signing a bunch of old guys who have no business playing any minutes in the league.

Ariza
Elington
Baze
DJ
Rondo
Bradley
Melo (yes at this stage in his career is much more negative then positive)

7 spots of dead weight. Think about this.. we signed Johnson late...Gabriel and DJ very late and they play important minutes. If they just would have gone younger and better choices regarding position (not so many damn guards) then this would've been a much more productive season. Even with the salary constraints.


Good point on the dead weight salary. Because it would cost anywhere from 5-8m in salary/luxury tax/new salary to replace the deadweight, and that's why we haven't done so. The tragic irony is if you just kept Caruso...ugh.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:56 am    Post subject:

Another roster construction flaw was having too many small guards on this team. Really kills Vogel's defensive scheme where he used to have athletic and rangy guards that could survive a switch (i.e. KCP/Caruso/Green, etc.) to now guys like Monk, etc. who get killed on them.

At one point, we had at guard:

Russ
Nunn
Rondo
Bradley
Monk
Ellington

All under 6'5.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:05 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Trading proven championship role players who defended and played well around AD/Lebron or Lebron or even by themselves, who were still in athletic prime for a cancerous selfish former MVP level point guard past his prime.

In athletic prime:

Kuzma 26
Caruso 27
KCP 28

Trez was in his athletic prime too, and was good for 15 points off the bench.


I wonder who we would have selected at #21 too. Even a guy like Herbert Jones was a 35th pick.

The guys we had were either a) proven championship players and b) great fits in Vogel's defensive schemes OR they were c) proven elite NBA bench players (Trez). Just the lot of them + old Lebron = playoff seed. Now add AD to that, you're a contender. We tried to get way too cute for no reason. We acted like we had nothing. When we had a ton to work with.

Don't get me wrong, we had flaws in our roster last season too. There's issues. But these issues could be managed, and you had a team that was competitive with or without AD.

What we have now is a team that's .500/low playoff seed with AD/Bron, and a team that's .300 level without AD. Pelinka and Klutch took away dudes that won a title for them for a cancerous former MVP past his prime that doesn't even fit around Lebron. In a way, they're getting exactly what they deserve. You took a group of great teammates who had some flaws in their games but were proven as role players around your 2 stars and traded them away, or tossed em aside. Without really reason. It's not like we got this great roster. So lesson needs to be learned here. Loyalty can be good at times, Rob/Lebron.
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BLF2145
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:09 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
1. First and foremost, injuries to AD/LBJ. We are a top 4 seed when they are healthy.

2. Russ trade. When you take KCP/Kuz/Trezz/2021 1st/likely Caruso off the rotation, and replace it with a high usage, non-shooter player who can't play off the ball, you are fracked.

3. Rob. He has slowly but surely picked apart the 2020 model for the Lakers (long 3/D players around LBJ/AD) and now we are just filling our main rotation out with players who would be back end rotation players at best on good teams. His over reliance on older washed vets that took up so much of the roster, and the exorbitant cost it would take to waive/re-sign new players made Jeanie and Co. hesitant to cast off the washed players.

4. Ultimately, this is on Jeanie. You can say Klutch had undue influence on trading for Russ, but at the end of the day, the ball is in her court to veto. Her father did that when West wanted Moncrief over Magic for example, and there are countless examples where he said "no" (i.e. trading Kobe). There is no salary cap on coaching staff hires, analytics, cap specialists, the front office, and we are either penny pinching or just hiring based on social nepotism or ties to the Lakers. That is unacceptable.


Sadly I think even #1 is incorrect. Are they a much better team with both healthy, of course. But LBJ has been stat chasing all season and this team was playing pretty bad even before AD went down. Before his injury in December, we were at or below .500 pretty much the entire month. Again, better than what we are now for sure but still bet we were looking at a 6/7 seed because the FO had to make assumptions LBJ would need to miss a few games here and there and AD would have to miss a few here and there regardless (just how bball works).

The problem is simple and will continue to be. The Lakers made a panic move to trade for RW because that is who AD and LBJ wanted and they depleted any youth, depth etc that we had. They also made poor FA signings going after all older guys with insanely limited ceilings instead of using some money to take risks on younger guys that could develop with this team for a few years and then hopefully be able to hang onto them.

Now with that said, add Nunn also into mix with healthy AD and LBJ, DONT TRADE AWAY EVERYTHING FOR RW and this team is way different and then a likely 3/4 seed

PG: NunnDennis Sshould have resigned considering how cheap)
SG: KCP/Monk
SF: LBJ/Kuz
PF: AD/Trez
C: Drummond (why the hell let him leave)

That is our 9 deep. Additional w/o RW contract

10) AC
11) Austin
12) Howard
13) Melo (was going to be here regardless)
14) Stanley Johnson like player (low risk/potential high reward)

That team is a top 3/4 team easily.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:09 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Trading proven championship role players who defended and played well around AD/Lebron or Lebron or even by themselves, who were still in athletic prime for a cancerous selfish former MVP level point guard past his prime.

In athletic prime:

Kuzma 26
Caruso 27
KCP 28

Trez was in his athletic prime too, and was good for 15 points off the bench.


I wonder who we would have selected at #21 too. Even a guy like Herbert Jones was a 35th pick.

The guys we had were either a) proven championship players and b) great fits in Vogel's defensive schemes OR they were c) proven elite NBA bench players (Trez). Just the lot of them + old Lebron = playoff seed. Now add AD to that, you're a contender. We tried to get way too cute for no reason. We acted like we had nothing. When we had a ton to work with.

Don't get me wrong, we had flaws in our roster last season too. There's issues. But these issues could be managed, and you had a team that was competitive with or without AD.

What we have now is a team that's .500/low playoff seed with AD/Bron, and a team that's .300 level without AD. Pelinka and Klutch took away dudes that won a title for them for a cancerous former MVP past his prime that doesn't even fit around Lebron. In a way, they're getting exactly what they deserve. You took a group of great teammates who had some flaws in their games but were proven as role players around your 2 stars and traded them away, or tossed em aside. Without really reason. It's not like we got this great roster. So lesson needs to be learned here. Loyalty can be good at times, Rob/Lebron.


Obviously, Dennis/Trezz/Drummond were highly controversial players to the Lakers fanbase. But I would happily take those guys in a heartbeat (with of course KCP/Kuz/Caruso/21st pick) over Russ/this year's team.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: What is your take on why the Lakers failed this season?

troy wrote:
We here on LG are more informed about our Lakers than other fans, so just hoping that someone can offer an educated explanation as to what in the hell went wrong this season.

How, within three seasons, we could go from NBA champs to not even making the playoffs (and we won't), with Lebron and so many future Hall of Famers on this team.

Some thinking points could be our arrogant, lazy approach to the pre-season, individual performances that didn't meet expectations, key injuries, poor roster construction, age of players, front office leadership conflicts, ineffective coaching, bad luck.

What is your take on what went wrong this season? Hopefully looking for more than just one-liners and hottakes. Long-reads and elaborative analysis are certainly welcomed.


I don't think it requires a long read myself. It's pretty simple: injuries, the Westbrook trade, and poor roster construction.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:12 am    Post subject:

1. Injuries

2. Bad roster construction

The injuries would likely have kept us from contending. The bad roster construction turned the season into a dumpster fire. Westbrook himself is not as much of a problem as the damage the trade caused to the roster construction. But even after the trade, the roster construction was ridiculous. We were cornering the market on old guards while avoiding wings and forwards like they were toxic.
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hoopschick29
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:12 am    Post subject:

Letting LBJ become the GM. This is the team he demanded, and this is what we got.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:16 am    Post subject:

The Buss kids, they have no idea how the NBA works.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:19 am    Post subject:

Russ trade wasnt smart

Bron is too old to carry a team. He can no longer be the best player on a championship team.

AD has never, will never make guys around him better. Doesnt have the dog to want to dominate, needs too much spoon-feeding and we all know, he isn't a franchise guy so any move that would accommodate that thinking is a mistake

Build a team around the coach, not around stars opinions.

Do not compound dumb decisions with what appears to be quick fix dumber decisions.

We are in rebuild category. lean into it.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:38 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
1. Injuries

2. Bad roster construction

The injuries would likely have kept us from contending. The bad roster construction turned the season into a dumpster fire. Westbrook himself is not as much of a problem as the damage the trade caused to the roster construction. But even after the trade, the roster construction was ridiculous. We were cornering the market on old guards while avoiding wings and forwards like they were toxic.


normally i would say injury is just bad luck. but not with this team, i can see injury will be a constant factor for this team if we continue going down the same path: signing aging stars/vets, and hire mediocre medical/training staff.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:51 am    Post subject:

- Terrible roster construction. Moving away from the formula that worked (surrounding AD/LBJ with athletic 3/D guys), signing a lot of undersized guards, old guys, non-defenders and non-shooters (RW checks all the boxes).

- Trading for Russell Westbrook. His atrocious contract pretty much killed our depth.

- Incredible bad luck with injuries. AD stepping over someone's foot and twisting his ankle is just something you can't predict or avoid.
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:55 am    Post subject:

Rob went straight to 2000s franchise building mode and devalued draft picks. The results are nothing short of disastrous, considering 90% of the top teams in the league built through the draft (with the exceptions being the Clippers, Bulls and Nets).

Nuggets: Jokic-Porter Jr-Murray-Barton-Hyland
Grizzles: Ja-Bane-Jackson Jr-Brooks
Celtics: Tatum-Brown-Smart-Williams (FA Irving, Hayward, Walker)
Suns: Book-Ayton-Cam-Bridges (FA Chris Paul)
Jazz: Mitchell-Gobert-O'Neale-Ingles
Mavs: Luka-DFS-Brunson
Warriors: Curry-Klay-Green-Poole-Kuminga-Wiseman (FA Durant)
Cavs: Garland-Mobley-Osman-Sexton
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:57 am    Post subject:

everyone keeps pointing to last years roster. We were in playin and got bounced in the first round.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:57 am    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Rob went straight to 2000s franchise building mode and devalued draft picks. The results are nothing short of disastrous, considering 90% of the top teams in the league built through the draft (with the exceptions being the Clippers, Bulls and Nets).

Nuggets: Jokic-Porter Jr-Murray-Barton-Hyland
Grizzles: Ja-Bane-Jackson Jr-Brooks
Celtics: Tatum-Brown-Smart-Williams (FA Irving, Hayward, Walker)
Suns: Book-Ayton-Cam-Bridges (FA Chris Paul)
Jazz: Mitchell-Gobert-O'Neale-Ingles
Mavs: Luka-DFS-Brunson
Warriors: Curry-Klay-Green-Poole-Kuminga-Wiseman (FA Durant)
Cavs: Garland-Mobley-Osman-Sexton


I still think we are in competition if we didn't do the Russ trade, kept Caruso. We just went so far away from our identity with the Russ trade, it was over.
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