LBJ P&M Doomsday Thread
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KobeIsTheOne
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:53 am    Post subject: LBJ P&M Doomsday Thread

Or at the very least a massive disappointment?

YES, there is one bubble chip in a shortened season in front of no fans in Orlando to show for it. But is that worth what's been sacrificed for it?

There is a very strong argument that the correct answer is a resounding NO.
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LakesGnrLake
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:10 am    Post subject:

The Lebron plague is real. He comes with promises of glory, but you must empty all reserves and assets to get there. We won a ship but at what cost? No parade, lost all out assets, our "future" star can't stay healthy. Yeah we won a chip but damn, next few years aren't looking very fruitful. His personality is a bit much for me, so passive aggressive when things aren't going completely his way.
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KobeIsTheOne
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:19 pm    Post subject:

LakesGnrLake wrote:
The Lebron plague is real. He comes with promises of glory, but you must empty all reserves and assets to get there. We won a ship but at what cost? No parade, lost all out assets, our "future" star can't stay healthy. Yeah we won a chip but damn, next few years aren't looking very fruitful. His personality is a bit much for me, so passive aggressive when things aren't going completely his way.


100% agree.

We sold the soul of the franchise for him, and all the baggage that comes with it.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:23 pm    Post subject:

Mostly a failure and "won a Championship in 1 year, would have won 2 if not for injuries" isn't mostly a failure.

Every season that "failed" came down to injuries.
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KobeIsTheOne
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:24 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Mostly a failure and "won a Championship in 1 year, would have won 2 if not for injuries" isn't mostly a failure.

Every season that "failed" came down to injuries.


Be real. It's not JUST injuries.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:28 pm    Post subject:

What has happened with Lebron isn’t uncommon for stars on the wrong side of 30. Lots of mileage plus (relative) advanced age often results in physical breakdowns. And things would have been different if he had remained healthy. The FO rolled the dice and the time has come to pay up.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:45 pm    Post subject:

A championship is not the same weight as the failures seasons. Ask the 11-12 teams that haven’t won a ring. He came to win a ring and he succeeded. Tip of the hat from me when he moves on.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:57 pm    Post subject:

I say it was 100% worth it.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:59 pm    Post subject:

KobeIsTheOne wrote:
MJST wrote:
Mostly a failure and "won a Championship in 1 year, would have won 2 if not for injuries" isn't mostly a failure.

Every season that "failed" came down to injuries.


Be real. It's not JUST injuries.


Any of the other problems wouldn't have cost us more than injuries did.

Even last season, if AD and LeBron aren't hurt, we repeat as Champions.

The first season, we also got injuries at vital periods of time and didn't make the Playoffs. This season a disaster especially as our big 3 never ever played 4 consecutive games together all season.

No matter what other 'problems and drama'. Nothing cost this team more than injuries.
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J.C. Smith
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:06 pm    Post subject:

People underestimate how difficult it is to win a title. Look at all the money the Clippers have thrown at the problem, and even winded up landing two top tier players. They've had one WCF appearance.

Be happy they won a title. If they win another, even better. But it's hard to call a championship a failure.

I also feel like if AD stays healthy they likely win last season as well, or at least make a deep run. They had the Suns number with AD.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:06 pm    Post subject:

People no where to be found during the championship season are now taking their shots. Too funny

That said, it's been a mess.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:38 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Mostly a failure and "won a Championship in 1 year, would have won 2 if not for injuries" isn't mostly a failure.

Every season that "failed" came down to injuries.


Would we really have won last year even if fully healthy? Phoenix this year is showing that they are the real deal— they may have gotten it together after being down 2-1. And I don’t know that we would have beaten the Bucks either.

If we had managed to get past Phoenix, the next two rounds would have been pretty easy— Denver without Murray and the Clippers without Kawhi.
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BynumForThree
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:48 pm    Post subject:

And yet, very team not named the Bucks or Raptors would trade their last 4 seasons for ours. It’s about titles and Lebron got us one.
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LakerSD
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:50 pm    Post subject:

The Lakers were a 5 month break away from a horrible Lebron era.

Given what I have seen the other 3 seasons, I have no doubt Lebron and AD would have missed some playoff games if the season wasn’t interrupted.

Thankful for the 2020 chip, but looking back, it turns out we were very fortunate for that big break.
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kobe8One
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:18 pm    Post subject:

I hope this will make you feel better.

4 years of Lebron with 1 ring vs 11 years of Cavs Lebron with 1 ring.

Looked at the Warriors/Clippers for the past 4 years. As long as they are not winning it and CP3 doesn't get one. I'm good.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:25 pm    Post subject:

We won a chip. How exactly is that a failure? There are franchses who haven't won a chip in 50 years.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:27 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
MJST wrote:
Mostly a failure and "won a Championship in 1 year, would have won 2 if not for injuries" isn't mostly a failure.

Every season that "failed" came down to injuries.


Would we really have won last year even if fully healthy? Phoenix this year is showing that they are the real deal— they may have gotten it together after being down 2-1. And I don’t know that we would have beaten the Bucks either.


With a healthy LeBron and AD, the Suns don't come back and beat us, it wasn't just AD they wouldn't be able to stop it's LeBron. We already know how those two perform when the Playoffs come, there's a reason Phoenix was so frustrated that Booker was pushing our players out of the air.

And we'd have beaten the Bucks in a similar fashion to how the Heat beat the Thunder, beat the young team that wasn't ready yet.

If we had the kind of lead on the Bucks that the Suns had, we wouldn't have relinquished it, we have seasoned Championship winners on our team and LeBron whom was still a top 3 player in the league and AD whom was the best at his position bar Giannis. That and we had a pretty deep team on top of that, Schroeder, Kuzma, KCP, Drummond, Gasol. We had enough pieces and role players that if our two main guys aren't hurt we repeat.

Sadly that didn't happen. But yeah I'd have picked us quite easily against the Suns and the Bucks if AD and LeBron are healthy.

Our hardest matchup in last year's playoffs(if they were healthy) would have been the Kawhi/George Clippers.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:32 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
MJST wrote:
Mostly a failure and "won a Championship in 1 year, would have won 2 if not for injuries" isn't mostly a failure.

Every season that "failed" came down to injuries.


Would we really have won last year even if fully healthy? Phoenix this year is showing that they are the real deal— they may have gotten it together after being down 2-1. And I don’t know that we would have beaten the Bucks either.


With a healthy LeBron and AD, the Suns don't come back and beat us, it wasn't just AD they wouldn't be able to stop it's LeBron. We already know how those two perform when the Playoffs come, there's a reason Phoenix was so frustrated that Booker was pushing our players out of the air.

And we'd have beaten the Bucks in a similar fashion to how the Heat beat the Thunder, beat the young team that wasn't ready yet.

If we had the kind of lead on the Bucks that the Suns had, we wouldn't have relinquished it, we have seasoned Championship winners on our team and LeBron whom was still a top 3 player in the league and AD whom was the best at his position bar Giannis. That and we had a pretty deep team on top of that, Schroeder, Kuzma, KCP, Drummond, Gasol. We had enough pieces and role players that if our two main guys aren't hurt we repeat.

Sadly that didn't happen. But yeah I'd have picked us quite easily against the Suns and the Bucks if AD and LeBron are healthy.

Our hardest matchup in last year's playoffs(if they were healthy) would have been the Kawhi/George Clippers.


Who do you think would have won if the Clippers were healthy? What about in the bubble season?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:32 pm    Post subject:

We got the ring

Now we need to dump his ass!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:44 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
MJST wrote:
Mostly a failure and "won a Championship in 1 year, would have won 2 if not for injuries" isn't mostly a failure.

Every season that "failed" came down to injuries.


Would we really have won last year even if fully healthy? Phoenix this year is showing that they are the real deal— they may have gotten it together after being down 2-1. And I don’t know that we would have beaten the Bucks either.

If we had managed to get past Phoenix, the next two rounds would have been pretty easy— Denver without Murray and the Clippers without Kawhi.


If we were fully healthy, we wouldn’t have been playing the Suns in the first round. What would have happened in an alternate time line is anyone’s guess. That’s a cop out, I know, but who’s to say that Lebron and Davis wouldn’t have broken down in the second round? If we assume perfect health, we’re assuming away the major risk of building around Lebron and Davis.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:59 pm    Post subject:

As hard as people want to down play injuries, it's still plays a major role when it comes to playoffs and winning a title. I mean just look at most of the teams who won the past how many years. It's because of injuries.

2018 - Legroin/ZO/BI missing significant time.
2019 - Title
2020 - LeAnkle/No AD
2021 - Same as 2020 plus Covid early in the season.

What does 2018/2020/2021 have in common... NO AD
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:33 pm    Post subject:

The LeBron/AD era has been underwhelming to say the least.

The fact that the championship they won will forever be disrespected by the masses & the fact there were no fans, no parade, not even a full summer to even relish it... makes the championship in itself underwhelming.

Hate to say it, but its true.

I've been alive for 8 Lakers championships and have vivid memories of 5.

Vivid memories of those squads & all 5 of those title runs.

Watching those teams overcome so much to become champions.

Watching those players fail & feel that pain of failure just to come back and make it to the top of the NBA mountain multiple times over is so gratifying as a fan.

While the championship is the final destination, its the journey that you hold dear.

I was invested in those teams and players because they werent mercenaries here for a year & gone the next.

They were invested in the Lakers.

They knew what it meant to be a LAKER & they embraced it, took pride in it and represented accordingly.

I also went to 6 championship parades.

The first I was too young to remember but my parents have shown me the pictures of us all being there.

I say all this because as trying and devasting of a year that 2020 was, for so many reasons.

That chip still does not hold a place in my heart the way the other 5 do.

It was nice & all but the circumstances surrounding it just puts an asterisk next to it.

It just does.

The fact that they have not been able to validate themselves as champions by making a deep run since, diminishes the chip even more.

Fair or not, it just does.

To those of you who feel that bubble title was worth 2 decades of assets & the current state of the franchise.

I dont know what to say.

I just hope its enough to keep you happy till 2030 because that's probably going to be the next time the Lakers are a viable championship contender.

Especially if they are not proactive this summer & trade both LeBron & AD along with Westbrook to recoup as many assets as they possibly can.

Because the fact is the LeBron/AD championship window is completely closed.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:48 pm    Post subject:

RashardA wrote:
Especially if they are not proactive this summer & trade both LeBron & AD along with Westbrook to recoup as many assets as they possibly can.

Because the fact is the LeBron/AD championship window is completely closed.


You and I are aligned on this. The only path to title contention over the next 3-5 seasons is to trade these 2 and have a solid foundation for the future.

Repeating another year with Lebron/AD is insanity because they will get hurt again given age and career patterns respectively. It’s pretty clear a team structured around those 2 can’t win when those 2 sit. We need a real foundation where we can stay afloat…just like the Clippers, Warriors, Heat, etc. Every single team in the NBA deals with injuries so that’s a bull (bleep) excuse for the 2021-22 Lakers.

I would seriously consider it and I bet the Dodgers ownership group would do it. Jeanie, on the other hand, is more interested in parading names and hoping people continue to pay attention to a crap product, one of the worst in the league if not the worst and at least those other teams are clearly rebuilding. What’s the Lakers excuse? Embarrassing.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:09 pm    Post subject:

KobeIsTheOne wrote:
Or at the very least a massive disappointment?

YES, there is one bubble chip in a shortened season in front of no fans in Orlando to show for it. But is that worth what's been sacrificed for it?

There is a very strong argument that the correct answer is a resounding NO.




My guess is in the long run the Lebron era will break into two camps -- those who will think it was worthwhile because we won a ring; those who will think it was a mistake because we only won one ring.

Given that LG often has an everything-but-a-championship-is-a-failure mentality, I suspect that missing the playoffs twice and the first round exit won't ultimately be a significant factor in how people view the Lebron era. People would have felt the same anger if we had been booted in the second round rather than missed the playoffs altogether.

The anger and disappointment people feel today will dissipate with the passage of time.

Over the next decade and beyond, the retroactive view of the Lebron era might also be influenced by the Lakers future success or future lack of success.

If we go 10 years without a ring, 1 ring in 5 years might start looking pretty good. If we win several rings over the next decade, it might look pretty bad.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:10 pm    Post subject:

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