Jeanie Buss vs Jim Buss
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Who is the superior basketball mind?
Jeanie Buss
50%
 50%  [ 32 ]
Jim Buss
50%
 50%  [ 32 ]
Total Votes : 64

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:19 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Maginka wrote:
Soooo Mozgov/Deng vs. 2020 Championship......


That’s the spirit, live in the past.



It’s easier to dis than give credit even
when it’s due.

I like the 50-50 approach; you suck when
you suck and tip my hat even if I eat crow.

Funny how any other team could have won in
2020, except they didn’t. Very unexpected for
Me at least.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:39 pm    Post subject:

Bol wrote:

Interesting. I want to live in a world where I can do a terrible job and have someone else be blamed because they talked about the terrible job I was doing.


Some of the worst offenses from that time (the Kobe contract, the "Stay D12 billboards", and the crappy LaMarcus Aldridge meeting where they didn't talk much basketball) came from Jeanie. I don't want to live in a world where I'm trying to do a job, my boss interferes with my work, and then I get the blame for the bosses crappy decisions, but that's the world we live in.

Jim had 3 finals appearances and 2 titles under his belt as POBO (and would've had more had Stern not interfered), so that put him in pretty elite company.


Bol wrote:

Pretty sure Jeanie knows Jim better than anyone here, so maybe she had good reason for criticizing him.


Jeanie admitted herself in an interview that she didn't understand why the team was rebuilding and what the point of tanking was. All anyone has to do is read her own words to see she doesn't really know what she's talking about.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:51 pm    Post subject:

Threatt_Level wrote:
Bol wrote:

Interesting. I want to live in a world where I can do a terrible job and have someone else be blamed because they talked about the terrible job I was doing.


Some of the worst offenses from that time (the Kobe contract, the "Stay D12 billboards", and the crappy LaMarcus Aldridge meeting where they didn't talk much basketball) came from Jeanie. I don't want to live in a world where I'm trying to do a job, my boss interferes with my work, and then I get the blame for the bosses crappy decisions, but that's the world we live in.

Jim had 3 finals appearances and 2 titles under his belt as POBO (and would've had more had Stern not interfered), so that put him in pretty elite company.


Bol wrote:

Pretty sure Jeanie knows Jim better than anyone here, so maybe she had good reason for criticizing him.


Jeanie admitted herself in an interview that she didn't understand why the team was rebuilding and what the point of tanking was. All anyone has to do is read her own words to see she doesn't really know what she's talking about.


Lol, bingo!

And to Bol's other point about free agents not coming because she said 'mean things' about her brother is missing the entire point. Good luck attracting any FA's when your FO isn't on the same page.

Jeanie was always the one yapping to the media so she gets more blame, imo.

Can't wait until she's gone
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:24 am    Post subject:

If David Stern doesn’t veto the CP3 trade , Jim Buss would have 1 Championship under his belt.

Kobe, Dwight, and CP3 would of lured soo many ring chasers. It would of been too easy.

In hindsight the entire deal got vetoed, and unfortunately Jim is known for the Deng and Mozgov deals. Then you got media hacks like Stephen A Smith including Magic who roasted him daily which pretty much made him look like some evil tyrant to the rest of the basketball world.


Jeanie listened to her BFF Magic Johnson and cleaned house. Made Magic the POBO. They lured Lebron and AD to LA. Got one championship and then said let’s clear the deck around Lebron and AD and eat tacos.

Magic left, Jeanie brings in Kurt and Linda. Jonah Hill makes an awesome tv show.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:18 am    Post subject:

KingKobe20 wrote:
If David Stern doesn’t veto the CP3 trade , Jim Buss would have 1 Championship under his belt.


Jim took over in 2005. He's the reason we drafted Bynum. Jim personally scouted him.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 1:55 am    Post subject:

I don't think Jim ever did anything to deserve the loyalty some of you show him, but it's nice that you give it anyway.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:33 am    Post subject:

Bol wrote:
I don't think Jim ever did anything to deserve the loyalty some of you show him, but it's nice that you give it anyway.


I don't think people are thinking Jim was this West/Masai/Riley type executive. However, it's now not hard to see some of things he did decently compared to how jeanie and co are f'ing things up currently.

Just working with someone like mitch looks more stable than jeanie working with pelinka/the rambii.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:38 am    Post subject:

dabask11 wrote:

I don't think people are thinking Jim was this West/Masai/Riley type executive. However, it's now not hard to see some of things he did decently compared to how jeanie and co are f'ing things up currently.

Just working with someone like mitch looks more stable than jeanie working with pelinka/the rambii.


Exactly. Jim wasn't some genius POBO, but he was competent at the job and basketball ops side was run a lot better under his watch than the crap show Jeanie has inflicted on the organization. If Stern doesn't veto the Chris Paul trade, Jim would still be solidly in charge of basketball ops and everyone on here would be talking about how much of a genius he is.

All the people who bash Jim for the rebuild, I don't know exactly what they expected. He went all in for Kobe and it didn't work out. Now you have people saying Pelinka should go all in for LeBron in one minute then talking about what an idiot Jim Buss is the next minute. Pelinka has made all the same mistakes Jim and Mitch made during the Kobe-Gasol years, but Jim and Mitch at least got 5 playoff runs, 3 finals appearances, and 2 titles out of the deal - and when it was over we (mostly) still had our picks and could tank to replenish our talent.

There's plenty to criticize Jim Buss for, but I think it's ridiculous to say that Jeanie is doing a better or even a comparable job to him.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:55 am    Post subject:

Threatt_Level wrote:
dabask11 wrote:

I don't think people are thinking Jim was this West/Masai/Riley type executive. However, it's now not hard to see some of things he did decently compared to how jeanie and co are f'ing things up currently.

Just working with someone like mitch looks more stable than jeanie working with pelinka/the rambii.


Exactly. Jim wasn't some genius POBO, but he was competent at the job and basketball ops side was run a lot better under his watch than the crap show Jeanie has inflicted on the organization. If Stern doesn't veto the Chris Paul trade, Jim would still be solidly in charge of basketball ops and everyone on here would be talking about how much of a genius he is.

All the people who bash Jim for the rebuild, I don't know exactly what they expected. He went all in for Kobe and it didn't work out. Now you have people saying Pelinka should go all in for LeBron in one minute then talking about what an idiot Jim Buss is the next minute. Pelinka has made all the same mistakes Jim and Mitch made during the Kobe-Gasol years, but Jim and Mitch at least got 5 playoff runs, 3 finals appearances, and 2 titles out of the deal - and when it was over we (mostly) still had our picks and could tank to replenish our talent.

There's plenty to criticize Jim Buss for, but I think it's ridiculous to say that Jeanie is doing a better or even a comparable job to him.


Yep. There are two things that influence many of the posters:

1. Jeanie and her crew spent years undermining Jim. I suspect that a lot of the stories about Jim (such as the bogus Chaz the Bartender story) came from Jeanie or someone connected to her. She got people in the media invested in bashing Jim (SAS jumps to mind). As you say, this does not mean that Jim was some sort of genius. He strikes me as mediocre, just like Jeanie. But there are people who are convinced to this day that Jim was some sort of bumbling, drooling moron.

2. This fanbase cannot handle a rebuild. I think we all understand this. When I see people say that the bubble title is precious and justifies whatever we have to endure for the next few years, it makes me sigh. I remember the mood of the fanbase in 2017 all too well. Jeanie and Pelinka are going to get clobbered if the team goes into the tank for a few years. In a irony of sorts, Pelinka will soon find himself under the same sort of pressure that caused Jim and Mitch to gamble on Mozgov and Deng. He won't have an artificial deadline from Jeanie (or at least I hope not), but the fanbase is going to revolt if we go into the tank. (P.S. If you can bring yourself to look at it neutrally, the Westbrook trade is analogous to the Mozgov and Deng signings. But this may be too much for some people to consider at this early stage of the process.)
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:27 am    Post subject:

Bol wrote:
I don't think Jim ever did anything to deserve the loyalty some of you show him, but it's nice that you give it anyway.


Jim was smart enough to let a NBA exec make decisions, Jeanie is not that smart.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:05 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Bol wrote:
I don't think Jim ever did anything to deserve the loyalty some of you show him, but it's nice that you give it anyway.


Jim was smart enough to let a NBA exec make decisions, Jeanie is not that smart.


You mean his bartender which he gave an nba exec job to ? Yes smart.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:07 am    Post subject:

twisted wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Bol wrote:
I don't think Jim ever did anything to deserve the loyalty some of you show him, but it's nice that you give it anyway.


Jim was smart enough to let a NBA exec make decisions, Jeanie is not that smart.


You mean his bartender which he gave an nba exec job to ? Yes smart.


Easy to spot the fools who bought Jeanie’s BS. Ever heard of Mitch Kupchak?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:23 am    Post subject:

twisted wrote:
You mean his bartender which he gave an nba exec job to ? Yes smart.


This makes my point. All these years later, you still believe that story. The story was debunked ten years ago. Chaz worked as a scout for the Lakers until Jeanie ousted Jim.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:39 am    Post subject:

Great debate. My first intuition was to vote in favor of Jeannie simply for the MozDeng disaster but it's easy to forget Jim was a part of those 3 Finals appearances. It's always about what you have done for me lately. I'll reserve judgement until I see what they do this offseason. This was the most disappointing season in Lakers history and it's time to see how Jeannie/Pelinka respond. I admit my hopes are not high.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:43 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
If you can bring yourself to look at it neutrally, the Westbrook trade is analogous to the Mozgov and Deng signings. But this may be too much for some people to consider at this early stage of the process.)


The big difference for me is that the MozDeng deals would have essentially handcuffed us for 4 years (not including the eventual stretch provision) until we decided to dump assets. Westbrook for now won't...although they can easily compound that mistake.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:02 am    Post subject:

Worth noting that the mozdeng debacle was the culmination of active sabotage of the free agent process and the ridiculous deadline. It was a panic, this is the best we can get and hope move.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:14 am    Post subject:

At least Jim did consider himself part of the basketball operations, Jeanie continually "plays" at it with no accountability....

As for Mitch vs Rob Lowe, same thing. Mitch is a legitimate basketball executive, and Pelinka is a former agent "playing" at being a GM.

Eric Pincus broke it down well at the time and is a good read -> https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2767982-the-good-bad-and-ugly-of-mitch-kupchaks-la-lakers-tenure

It's hard to quantify who was "better" but I always tend to side with (have more faith in) adults who are trying versus children who are playing...
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:18 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Worth noting that the mozdeng debacle was the culmination of active sabotage of the free agent process and the ridiculous deadline. It was a panic, this is the best we can get and hope move.


People also forget one very key point: Kupchak thought that the league would likely allow 2 amnesties, and failing that 1 for sure. Imagine what life would have looked like with even 1 amnesty : no Deng, no $5 million boat anchor. (2 amnesties would have been nirvana of course, no need for the DLO/Moz deal).

We know Kupchak was wrong, but wby? Shouldn't he have known? Who on the Lakers was supposed to have this information? Jim? Kupchak? No. League matters like this are the purvue of the *owners* not of the FO's/management, this stuff is discussed at the NBA owners' meetings and for normal teams, ownership then transmits to FO's to inform their spending/hiring strategies/decisions.
It's unclear who from the Lakers was at those meetings during that time, maybe Jeanie attended, maybe no one. For sure it wasn't Kupchak, and for sure Kupchak had not been informed that the league was reversing course on their prior stance on amnesties.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:20 am    Post subject:

gng930 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
If you can bring yourself to look at it neutrally, the Westbrook trade is analogous to the Mozgov and Deng signings. But this may be too much for some people to consider at this early stage of the process.)


The big difference for me is that the MozDeng deals would have essentially handcuffed us for 4 years (not including the eventual stretch provision) until we decided to dump assets. Westbrook for now won't...although they can easily compound that mistake.


Actually, they didn't, unless we wanted to change course and chase free agents. That's what happened when Jim and Mitch got replaced by Magic and Pelinka. But that's not my point. My point is that signing Mozgov and Deng was a response to pressure for a quick turnaround. In the case of the Westbrook trade, you're right that the contract is only two years, but we may be handcuffed for more than four years due to the loss of so many assets.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:22 am    Post subject:

Jeanie was at the league meetings when Mitch pulled off the Chris Paul trade. When some of the other owners expressed their issues with the trade she could have stood up for the organization and fought for the trade. But she didn’t. It might not have helped if she did but she didn’t care enough to make the effort.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:11 pm    Post subject:

All these leaks coming out of our front office blaming Klutch, Lebron and AD is pathetic. Take some blame for letting them run all over you.

One thing I loved about Mitch was he moved quietly. He made basketball moves that made a lot of sense. People who keep mentioning the 2020 chip have no foresight or long term vision. Mitch wasn't perfect, but he's so much better than this debacle of a front office.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:14 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Jeanie was at the league meetings when Mitch pulled off the Chris Paul trade. When some of the other owners expressed their issues with the trade she could have stood up for the organization and fought for the trade. But she didn’t. It might not have helped if she did but she didn’t care enough to make the effort.


i posted something similar at the time when veto happened. can you imaging if they done this to Mark Cuban? OMG, he'd sue the league Al David style. Or, maybe Jeannie didn't want this go through deep down inside so her bro Jimmy would not able to take in all the glories.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:32 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Jeanie was at the league meetings when Mitch pulled off the Chris Paul trade. When some of the other owners expressed their issues with the trade she could have stood up for the organization and fought for the trade. But she didn’t. It might not have helped if she did but she didn’t care enough to make the effort.


Phil predicted there would be issues, it wasn’t likely Jeanie would have supported this when they felt it wasn’t going to happen.

https://www.espn.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7350605/phil-jackson-predicted-chris-paul-trade-issues-year-ago
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:49 pm    Post subject:

How come Jim didn't help his grandmother, Sally Fields like Jeanie did?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:48 pm    Post subject:

can’t believe i voted for Jimbo.
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