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nevitt_smrek
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:30 am    Post subject:

troy wrote:
Halflife wrote:
Has steph ever been unequivocally the best player in the league? I say no, which imho, means he will never be top 5


The thing with Steph is that he's a great scorer, but average with other parts of the game (rebounding, assist, defense, so forth).


His rpg and apg aren't any worse than Jordan or Kobe's.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:49 am    Post subject:

nevitt_smrek wrote:
troy wrote:
Halflife wrote:
Has steph ever been unequivocally the best player in the league? I say no, which imho, means he will never be top 5


The thing with Steph is that he's a great scorer, but average with other parts of the game (rebounding, assist, defense, so forth).


His rpg and apg aren't any worse than Jordan or Kobe's.

so prime (obviously subjective) do you take steph over any of these guys, and as Kyrie says Eff the stats.

Bron
MJ
Kobe
Magic
KAJ
TD
Shaq
Bird
KD
Kawai
Wade
Freak
KG
Dream
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:57 am    Post subject:

nevitt_smrek wrote:
troy wrote:
Halflife wrote:
Has steph ever been unequivocally the best player in the league? I say no, which imho, means he will never be top 5


The thing with Steph is that he's a great scorer, but average with other parts of the game (rebounding, assist, defense, so forth).


His rpg and apg aren't any worse than Jordan or Kobe's.


MJ and Kobe's rebounding came in the era of trees/7-footers. MJ did it in the golden era of Centers and Kobe did it in the golden era of Power Forwards.

The tallest guy in these Finals was Robert Williams, who is like 6'9. Assists are also inflated in this spread out, penetrate and dish 3-point shooting era.

Defense, it's not even a conversation. I don't even consider it a tie-breaker for Kobe/MJ, it more like a tie-destroyer because that's how big the gap between their defensive impact and Curry's is.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:56 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:

Bron
MJ
Kobe
Magic
KAJ
TD
Shaq
Bird
KD
Kawai
Wade
Freak
KG
Dream


Side: Steph is still going.
If his career ended today, I'd put steph over Wade, Kawhi, Giannis and KD (assuming their careers ended as well).
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governator
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:31 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
Halflife wrote:

Bron
MJ
Kobe
Magic
KAJ
TD
Shaq
Bird
KD
Kawai
Wade
Freak
KG
Dream


Side: Steph is still going.
If his career ended today, I'd put steph over Wade, Kawhi, Giannis and KD (assuming their careers ended as well).


Right now, Steph or Dream?
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epic_
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:17 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Halflife wrote:

Bron
MJ
Kobe
Magic
KAJ
TD
Shaq
Bird
KD
Kawai
Wade
Freak
KG
Dream


Side: Steph is still going.
If his career ended today, I'd put steph over Wade, Kawhi, Giannis and KD (assuming their careers ended as well).


Right now, Steph or Dream?


Age 22-34, Hakeem for his defensive impact.
He started sliding noticeable at age 35.
Steph's game will most likely age better.
By the end of his career it'll probably be greater than Dream's.
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moonriver24
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:02 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
governator wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Halflife wrote:

Bron
MJ
Kobe
Magic
KAJ
TD
Shaq
Bird
KD
Kawai
Wade
Freak
KG
Dream


Side: Steph is still going.
If his career ended today, I'd put steph over Wade, Kawhi, Giannis and KD (assuming their careers ended as well).


Right now, Steph or Dream?


Age 22-34, Hakeem for his defensive impact.
He started sliding noticeable at age 35.
Steph's game will most likely age better.
By the end of his career it'll probably be greater than Dream's.


Steph and many current "greats" have been playing in an era where centers and PFs are not dominant forces.

MJ had Hakeem, Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Lambert, among others.

Kobe had Yao, Howard (yes, he was that good), Big Ben (defensively), Divac, Duncan, Robinson, Webber, among some.

Defensively, I dont know if one can compare Curry's era with that of MJ's and Kobe's. Or certainly, that of Magic's. And of course, Shaq's no more.
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epic_
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:20 pm    Post subject:

moonriver24 wrote:
epic_ wrote:
governator wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Halflife wrote:

Bron
MJ
Kobe
Magic
KAJ
TD
Shaq
Bird
KD
Kawai
Wade
Freak
KG
Dream


Side: Steph is still going.
If his career ended today, I'd put steph over Wade, Kawhi, Giannis and KD (assuming their careers ended as well).


Right now, Steph or Dream?


Age 22-34, Hakeem for his defensive impact.
He started sliding noticeable at age 35.
Steph's game will most likely age better.
By the end of his career it'll probably be greater than Dream's.


Steph and many current "greats" have been playing in an era where centers and PFs are not dominant forces.

MJ had Hakeem, Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Lambert, among others.

Kobe had Yao, Howard (yes, he was that good), Big Ben (defensively), Divac, Duncan, Robinson, Webber, among some.

Defensively, I dont know if one can compare Curry's era with that of MJ's and Kobe's. Or certainly, that of Magic's. And of course, Shaq's no more.


That's what makes comparing players from different eras so difficult. If someone wanted to put steph over Hakeem, I'd understand to a point.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:51 am    Post subject:

It’s crazy that steph has never, not 1 year been considered the best in the league and yet he’s put over guys that if you had a draft today steph wouldn’t be invited.

I am not a huge Wade fan and like steph was never considered best in the league but prime wade vs prime steph, imho is a no brainer in favor of wade.
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Lamar's Bud
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:29 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
It’s crazy that steph has never, not 1 year been considered the best in the league and yet he’s put over guys that if you had a draft today steph wouldn’t be invited.

I am not a huge Wade fan and like steph was never considered best in the league but prime wade vs prime steph, imho is a no brainer in favor of wade.


I think that would have to come down to whether Wade comes with the whistles (refs)? Steph is not reliant on drawing bogus fouls to be able to take over a game.
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lakersfever714
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:27 pm    Post subject:

Relax, Steph is like a midget. He's great offensively but never been known for his defense so he doesn't affect the game on both ends of the floor like MJ, Kobe, and Bron did. That's why I would never put him up there along with the best of the best. 2nd best team? Yes but not bestest team.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:56 pm    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
West and Goodrich shot from three point range all the time.

West would average over 30 points in the playoffs against the Bill Russell Celtics who were considered one of the best defensive teams of all time.

He averaged over 46 points in a series against the Bullets... With no three point shot.

So if West averages the same shooting percentage as Steph without the three point line... then it's pretty safe to assume that had there been a three point line his total shooting percentage would be pretty close.

You can say the players he played against weren't as good... but then there were way less teams so the talent was more concentrated... he still had to play against the Big O, Frazier, Lenny Wilkens, Sam Jones, Jerry Sloan, Dave Bing, Earl the Pearl... a lot of Hall of Famers


Damn!
Your list makes me nostalgic. I watched all of the guys you mentioned.

Talking about a lethal backcourt. Gail Goodrich and Jerry West were great. I think they would have done well in today's league.

One of my favorite players of that time was Dick Barnett (Fall Back Baby) He had a weird jumper. He played 3 seasons with the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:13 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
It’s crazy that steph has never, not 1 year been considered the best in the league and yet he’s put over guys that if you had a draft today steph wouldn’t be invited.

I am not a huge Wade fan and like steph was never considered best in the league but prime wade vs prime steph, imho is a no brainer in favor of wade.


I'm not huge on exact ratings of a player but I find it legitimately disrespectful and ridiculous to seriously think Curry is top 10 for sure.. I wouldn't even put him top 15 personally but I can at least somewhat respect that. Give him the title of greatest shooter which I have no problem with whatsoever but that doesn't mean he's one of the most complete/greatest players of all time.

He not only has never been the best player in the league for a Season but this was his first Finals he was even the best player there. I've had 3 people tell me in the last week that Steph is the better player then both Kobe and Bron which I pretty much laughed at. There's more people then I thought out there that really do believe this.
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kobe8One
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:45 pm    Post subject:

moonriver24 wrote:
epic_ wrote:
governator wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Halflife wrote:

Bron
MJ
Kobe
Magic
KAJ
TD
Shaq
Bird
KD
Kawai
Wade
Freak
KG
Dream


Side: Steph is still going.
If his career ended today, I'd put steph over Wade, Kawhi, Giannis and KD (assuming their careers ended as well).


Right now, Steph or Dream?


Age 22-34, Hakeem for his defensive impact.
He started sliding noticeable at age 35.
Steph's game will most likely age better.
By the end of his career it'll probably be greater than Dream's.


Steph and many current "greats" have been playing in an era where centers and PFs are not dominant forces.

MJ had Hakeem, Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Lambert, among others.

Kobe had Yao, Howard (yes, he was that good), Big Ben (defensively), Divac, Duncan, Robinson, Webber, among some.

Defensively, I dont know if one can compare Curry's era with that of MJ's and Kobe's. Or certainly, that of Magic's. And of course, Shaq's no more.


Curry is not even a top 5 PG of all time. Best shooter no question when we are in an era where moving screens are allowed 80% of the time. Most people forget Tony Parker has 4 rings too!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:41 pm    Post subject:

hype wrote:
Halflife wrote:
It’s crazy that steph has never, not 1 year been considered the best in the league and yet he’s put over guys that if you had a draft today steph wouldn’t be invited.

I am not a huge Wade fan and like steph was never considered best in the league but prime wade vs prime steph, imho is a no brainer in favor of wade.


I'm not huge on exact ratings of a player but I find it legitimately disrespectful and ridiculous to seriously think Curry is top 10 for sure.. I wouldn't even put him top 15 personally but I can at least somewhat respect that. Give him the title of greatest shooter which I have no problem with whatsoever but that doesn't mean he's one of the most complete/greatest players of all time.

He not only has never been the best player in the league for a Season but this was his first Finals he was even the best player there. I've had 3 people tell me in the last week that Steph is the better player then both Kobe and Bron which I pretty much laughed at. There's more people then I thought out there that really do believe this.

They don’t believe it. The campaign of steph needing a FMVP just to validate him has made their brains foggy.

He had a great run against way overrated teams. He was awesome, but their isn’t a smart person in the world taking him over Kobe, bron, magic, etc. list above.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:42 pm    Post subject:

Exactly. Dude barely has 4 all NBA 1st team.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:47 am    Post subject:

Lamar's Bud wrote:
Halflife wrote:
It’s crazy that steph has never, not 1 year been considered the best in the league and yet he’s put over guys that if you had a draft today steph wouldn’t be invited.

I am not a huge Wade fan and like steph was never considered best in the league but prime wade vs prime steph, imho is a no brainer in favor of wade.


I think that would have to come down to whether Wade comes with the whistles (refs)? Steph is not reliant on drawing bogus fouls to be able to take over a game.

Ah yes.. D-Whistle. Little did we know, D-Whistle was the precursor to James Harden. Maybe in 20 years when there is someone even worse than James Harden., maybe then we can look at James Harden in a more positive limelight like we do with Wade now…
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:19 pm    Post subject:

Curry is the system. The guy is incredible
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:32 pm    Post subject:

hype wrote:
He not only has never been the best player in the league for a Season


That's an interesting comment to make about a guy with two MVPs, the second of which was the first time anyone in the history of the league won by a unanimous vote. Sure, Curry is getting hyped up in the afterglow of a Finals win. That's normal. But let's keep some perspective here.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:13 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
hype wrote:
He not only has never been the best player in the league for a Season


That's an interesting comment to make about a guy with two MVPs, the second of which was the first time anyone in the history of the league won by a unanimous vote. Sure, Curry is getting hyped up in the afterglow of a Finals win. That's normal. But let's keep some perspective here.


Is he saying Curry getting it was like Malone getting it?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:26 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
hype wrote:
He not only has never been the best player in the league for a Season


That's an interesting comment to make about a guy with two MVPs, the second of which was the first time anyone in the history of the league won by a unanimous vote. Sure, Curry is getting hyped up in the afterglow of a Finals win. That's normal. But let's keep some perspective here.


Is he saying Curry getting it was like Malone getting it?

Nash got 2 neither of which was he considered best player in league.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:31 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
hype wrote:
He not only has never been the best player in the league for a Season


That's an interesting comment to make about a guy with two MVPs, the second of which was the first time anyone in the history of the league won by a unanimous vote. Sure, Curry is getting hyped up in the afterglow of a Finals win. That's normal. But let's keep some perspective here.


Is he saying Curry getting it was like Malone getting it?

Nash got 2 neither of which was he considered best player in league.


Malone, Nash and Curry. The fraud MVPs of the NBA?
Who else is on that list? AI?
Asking for a friend, not that I agree with said list.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:33 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
Halflife wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
hype wrote:
He not only has never been the best player in the league for a Season


That's an interesting comment to make about a guy with two MVPs, the second of which was the first time anyone in the history of the league won by a unanimous vote. Sure, Curry is getting hyped up in the afterglow of a Finals win. That's normal. But let's keep some perspective here.


Is he saying Curry getting it was like Malone getting it?

Nash got 2 neither of which was he considered best player in league.


Malone, Nash and Curry. The fraud MVPs of the NBA?
Who else is on that list? AI?
Asking for a friend, not that I agree with said list.

I’m not saying they are frauds, but the prerequisite is team success vs best player.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:40 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Halflife wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
hype wrote:
He not only has never been the best player in the league for a Season


That's an interesting comment to make about a guy with two MVPs, the second of which was the first time anyone in the history of the league won by a unanimous vote. Sure, Curry is getting hyped up in the afterglow of a Finals win. That's normal. But let's keep some perspective here.


Is he saying Curry getting it was like Malone getting it?

Nash got 2 neither of which was he considered best player in league.


Malone, Nash and Curry. The fraud MVPs of the NBA?
Who else is on that list? AI?
Asking for a friend, not that I agree with said list.

I’m not saying they are frauds, but the prerequisite is team success vs best player.


Yea. Going by awards based on subjective criteria is pretty wack.
What do you think about all-nba awards? Same issue?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:06 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
Halflife wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Halflife wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
hype wrote:
He not only has never been the best player in the league for a Season


That's an interesting comment to make about a guy with two MVPs, the second of which was the first time anyone in the history of the league won by a unanimous vote. Sure, Curry is getting hyped up in the afterglow of a Finals win. That's normal. But let's keep some perspective here.


Is he saying Curry getting it was like Malone getting it?

Nash got 2 neither of which was he considered best player in league.


Malone, Nash and Curry. The fraud MVPs of the NBA?
Who else is on that list? AI?
Asking for a friend, not that I agree with said list.

I’m not saying they are frauds, but the prerequisite is team success vs best player.


Yea. Going by awards based on subjective criteria is pretty wack.
What do you think about all-nba awards? Same issue?


I def. don't think he's a fraud.. He's clearly an all-time great player and I thought I made that pretty clear.. My point is he is not in that top 10 imo in anyway whatsoever.. No reason to get all crazy and try to make me sound like i'm saying he's trash.

As far as MVP's go that's purely the current "media darling" for that season award more so then the best player in the NBA along with also having a top record. He was still among the best players obviously but I don't buy many people actually believing that he was the clear cut best player in the NBA in either of those years. If you do, cool. I just absolutely do not.

You can hate Bron all you want but him alone was clearly a better overall player both years Curry got the award.. Kind of like in 2016 when as you say Curry got the magical unanimous vote and went on to be vastly outplayed by Bron in the Finals that Season and the Cavs didn't have nearly the overall talent Curry did on his roster which of course caused them to go on to sign Durant where they finally had that consistent #1 threat every game and Curry fell back to the #2 option which made them nearly unbeatable for a few years. So for those years where Durant was on his team he wasn't even the best player on his own roster.


Last edited by hype on Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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