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zambia
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Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 1174
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 Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | Klutch advises both Simmons and AD... wouldn't be shocked if they eventually represent Zion.
As I've said many times. Klutch is good at looking out for their players...
Good for the players... not so much for the teams.
So if you are rooting for players maximizing their salaries... Go Klutch!
If you are rooting for the teams... meh... maybe not so much.
I'm not saying I'm rooting for us to go back to the dark ages where players were paid like slaves while the owners took all their money... but I do miss the part where they played more for the love of the game. |
Choose your words more carefully. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| kwase wrote: | | The league generally views eras by decade. This is the soft, superteam, not wanna compete era. I think it’s over and we’re starting a new era now. |
NBA stars have always wanted to be on stacked teams that give them an advantage over their competitors. And, it's not surprising, that virtually everyone on the GOAT short list played on stacked teams.
Larry Bird was a competitive guy, but he was delighted to add former MVP Bill Walton to an already-stacked Celtics team. Ditto Magic and Bob McAdoo. These guys never said, "Hey, that would be unfair; I want things to be more competitive so I have to work harder." They always said, gimme, gimme, gimme.
The only difference about this era is that stars played a bigger role in stacking their teams, rather than leaving that tasks to GMs. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| focus wrote: |
I did not mean (though it definitely reads that way, sorry) that all young players are doing this, just pointing out that the sums of money are incredible, significantly different than in the old days (even relative to their time - the comparison is the rich players to average folks); and that I find it likely that the set-for-life aspect has a not-surprising impact on those who just like the game and don't need it. Trae, Jayson, Luka, and many others seem to love it for itself (and of course they've all done impressive things as pros). |
Even decades ago, NBA players were being paid huge sums that could easily set them for life. I doubt the larger sums today are causing players to care about the game any less.
For the most part, guys who reach the NBA are very competitive and driven to win. But there have always been players who were lackidasical and lazy.
Iverson and Wilt hated to practice. Lots of stars were often out of shape -- Shaq, Baron Davis, Shawn Kemp, Eddie Curry. From Glenn Robinson to Jerome James, there have always been guys who lost interest in the game after signing a big contract.
I don't see that the guys today are any more likely to be out of shape or lazy than guys in the past. We're just more aware of those guys now because it's now. |
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47580
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if they are out of touch, but to me the NBA Regular Season has become unwatchable.
If they aren't careful, they might slay the Golden Goose.
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slavavov
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Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8330
Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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There are many examples of today's players being very much in touch and dedicated to their craft. It seems like today's players are more conscious of things like conditioning, diet and even sleep than players were 20-30 years ago.
Just look at players who post videos of informal scrimmages in late summer on IG to get ready for training camp.
As for Ben Simmons, he's definitely out of touch, although he's a special case. It seems like he's faking a mental health problem to cover for being a mental midget and not being man enough to handle criticism from fans in Philly or the NYC area. |
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GOODRICH25
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Joined: 17 Jun 2017
Posts: 3366
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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AD has nothing to do in a sentence with those 2
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8450
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| What I don't like about this new generation is that there are so friendly and not as competitive, to me. I don't really get that true intensity in games, outside of maybe Giannis, Brandon Ingram, Chris Paul, Rondo, and a few others. It seems a lot of players are distracted with so many other things, that takes their attention from improving their game. There are too many happy and smiling faces on the Lakers bench when we are losing. Not enough "I'm a work myself to exhaustion" Kobe after losing to the Celtics in the finals. I'm not comparing anyone to Kobe. I'm talking about the idea that losses hurt so bad, that all they wanna do is work towards improvement. I'm not gonna lie and I'm not slandering the man, but it seems once Lebron made that move to Miami, it hurt the competitive spirit of the game. |
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BILBJH
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | What I don't like about this new generation is that there are so friendly and not as competitive, to me. I don't really get that true intensity in games, outside of maybe Giannis, Brandon Ingram, Chris Paul, Rondo, and a few others. It seems a lot of players are distracted with so many other things, that takes their attention from improving their game. There are too many happy and smiling faces on the Lakers bench when we are losing. Not enough "I'm a work myself to exhaustion" Kobe after losing to the Celtics in the finals. I'm not comparing anyone to Kobe. I'm talking about the idea that losses hurt so bad, that all they wanna do is work towards improvement. I'm not gonna lie and I'm not slandering the man, but it seems once Lebron made that move to Miami, it hurt the competitive spirit of the game. |
Social media and text chains brought everyone together. Before you had to make an effort to cultivate a relationship on the phone... now the whole league is in your mentions at any given moment. So on one hand it's nice that the NBA is a big family... but it does dilute the us against them feeling. |
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slavavov
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Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8330
Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | What I don't like about this new generation is that there are so friendly and not as competitive, to me. I don't really get that true intensity in games, outside of maybe Giannis, Brandon Ingram, Chris Paul, Rondo, and a few others. It seems a lot of players are distracted with so many other things, that takes their attention from improving their game. There are too many happy and smiling faces on the Lakers bench when we are losing. Not enough "I'm a work myself to exhaustion" Kobe after losing to the Celtics in the finals. I'm not comparing anyone to Kobe. I'm talking about the idea that losses hurt so bad, that all they wanna do is work towards improvement. I'm not gonna lie and I'm not slandering the man, but it seems once Lebron made that move to Miami, it hurt the competitive spirit of the game. |
Most of the bolded is LeBron and, to a lesser extent, Kevin Durant. LeBron is the face of the NBA, and because he'd rather team up with people than beat them, it has caused people to think that everyone in the league, and all Millennials, is like that.
In addition to Giannis, Brandon Ingram, Chris Paul and Rondo, Russell Westbrook, Damian Lillard, Jimmy Butler, Luka Doncic, Donovan Mitchell, Kyrie Irving, Jayson Tatum and Joel Embiid have that competitive personality.
LeBron might be the first face of the league who wasn't a killer or uber-competitive. |
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KindCrippler2000
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Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 15821
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| I can't really fault Simmons for what's going on. He's a casualty. Social media has made society conscious of everything, and professional players are not the exception. Everything is under a microscope. It's literally at the point where players are afraid of contesting dunks, because they don't want to end up on twitter trends. Sure there was ESPN back in the day but the scope was limited to a niche audience. Also, I remember so many bald players in the NBA during the 90s/00s, and now it's all about crazy hairstyles. Kobe was a real one who didn't give a (bleep) about anything. It's not a coincidence that mental health problems are astronomically high among the youth today. Just look at what they are being exposed to on a daily basis. I do miss the simpler times. |
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PenG_
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Joined: 01 Feb 2020
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | What I don't like about this new generation is that there are so friendly and not as competitive, to me. I don't really get that true intensity in games, outside of maybe Giannis, Brandon Ingram, Chris Paul, Rondo, and a few others. It seems a lot of players are distracted with so many other things, that takes their attention from improving their game. There are too many happy and smiling faces on the Lakers bench when we are losing. Not enough "I'm a work myself to exhaustion" Kobe after losing to the Celtics in the finals. I'm not comparing anyone to Kobe. I'm talking about the idea that losses hurt so bad, that all they wanna do is work towards improvement. I'm not gonna lie and I'm not slandering the man, but it seems once Lebron made that move to Miami, it hurt the competitive spirit of the game. |
Most of the bolded is LeBron and, to a lesser extent, Kevin Durant. LeBron is the face of the NBA, and because he'd rather team up with people than beat them, it has caused people to think that everyone in the league, and all Millennials, is like that.
In addition to Giannis, Brandon Ingram, Chris Paul and Rondo, Russell Westbrook, Damian Lillard, Jimmy Butler, Luka Doncic, Donovan Mitchell, Kyrie Irving, Jayson Tatum and Joel Embiid have that competitive personality.
LeBron might be the first face of the league who wasn't a killer or uber-competitive. |
Lebron is his own worst enemy with regards to politics and likeability, but the discourse around his competitiveness, especially here, is so remarkably silly and unfair.
Last edited by PenG_ on Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: | | LeBron might be the first face of the league who wasn't a killer or uber-competitive. |
Is he really different from Magic in this respect? Remember Magic kissing Isiah?
There is a whole lot of "Get off my grass" in this discussion. The superstars in the past would have been thrilled if they could have teamed up and formed super teams. Every last one of them. What makes some of them and a lot of fans mad is that Lebron actually went out and did it. He took control of his career and didn't just entrust his fate to some bumbling GM or owner. The owners don't like this, either, but they brought it on themselves.
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | What I don't like about this new generation is that there are so friendly and not as competitive, to me. I don't really get that true intensity in games, outside of maybe Giannis, Brandon Ingram, Chris Paul, Rondo, and a few others. It seems a lot of players are distracted with so many other things, that takes their attention from improving their game. There are too many happy and smiling faces on the Lakers bench when we are losing. Not enough "I'm a work myself to exhaustion" Kobe after losing to the Celtics in the finals. I'm not comparing anyone to Kobe. I'm talking about the idea that losses hurt so bad, that all they wanna do is work towards improvement. I'm not gonna lie and I'm not slandering the man, but it seems once Lebron made that move to Miami, it hurt the competitive spirit of the game. |
Most of the bolded is LeBron and, to a lesser extent, Kevin Durant. LeBron is the face of the NBA, and because he'd rather team up with people than beat them, it has caused people to think that everyone in the league, and all Millennials, is like that.
In addition to Giannis, Brandon Ingram, Chris Paul and Rondo, Russell Westbrook, Damian Lillard, Jimmy Butler, Luka Doncic, Donovan Mitchell, Kyrie Irving, Jayson Tatum and Joel Embiid have that competitive personality.
LeBron might be the first face of the league who wasn't a killer or uber-competitive. |
You can't be serious. Did you see this man in his prime? Did you see him in 19/20?
What I don't like about LBJ is that he's a frontrunner, not that he's not "competitive." When he's in the frontrunner position, he is one guy you do not want to go up against. But when he's down, or knows he won't win it all, he lets go of the rope in dramatic fashion. |
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slavavov
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Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8330
Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | What I don't like about this new generation is that there are so friendly and not as competitive, to me. I don't really get that true intensity in games, outside of maybe Giannis, Brandon Ingram, Chris Paul, Rondo, and a few others. It seems a lot of players are distracted with so many other things, that takes their attention from improving their game. There are too many happy and smiling faces on the Lakers bench when we are losing. Not enough "I'm a work myself to exhaustion" Kobe after losing to the Celtics in the finals. I'm not comparing anyone to Kobe. I'm talking about the idea that losses hurt so bad, that all they wanna do is work towards improvement. I'm not gonna lie and I'm not slandering the man, but it seems once Lebron made that move to Miami, it hurt the competitive spirit of the game. |
Most of the bolded is LeBron and, to a lesser extent, Kevin Durant. LeBron is the face of the NBA, and because he'd rather team up with people than beat them, it has caused people to think that everyone in the league, and all Millennials, is like that.
In addition to Giannis, Brandon Ingram, Chris Paul and Rondo, Russell Westbrook, Damian Lillard, Jimmy Butler, Luka Doncic, Donovan Mitchell, Kyrie Irving, Jayson Tatum and Joel Embiid have that competitive personality.
LeBron might be the first face of the league who wasn't a killer or uber-competitive. |
You can't be serious. Did you see this man in his prime? Did you see him in 19/20?
What I don't like about LBJ is that he's a frontrunner, not that he's not "competitive." When he's in the frontrunner position, he is one guy you do not want to go up against. But when he's down, or knows he won't win it all, he lets go of the rope in dramatic fashion. |
You said it so well. That's what I meant when I said he's not uber-competitive.
There's levels to this thing. Let me put it another way: MJ, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Jerry West and Bill Russell needed to win to be happy and OK with themselves.
LeBron wants to win, but I feel like he doesn't need to win to feel OK with himself.
That seems to be that slight edge between people who are successful, versus people who are the best of the best. It's true in sports, business, politics and just about anything else.
Everyone in the NBA is "competitive," but some of them have that quality at that next level and are killers or sociopaths on the court.
Last edited by slavavov on Tue Apr 26, 2022 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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slavavov
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Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | | LeBron might be the first face of the league who wasn't a killer or uber-competitive. |
Is he really different from Magic in this respect? Remember Magic kissing Isiah?
There is a whole lot of "Get off my grass" in this discussion. The superstars in the past would have been thrilled if they could have teamed up and formed super teams. Every last one of them. What makes some of them and a lot of fans mad is that Lebron actually went out and did it. He took control of his career and didn't just entrust his fate to some bumbling GM or owner. The owners don't like this, either, but they brought it on themselves. |
Yeah I've seen those clips, but Magic and Isiah wanted to beat each other. I've also seen that clip from that one game when the Pistons were getting dirty with the Lakers, and magic was like "F that" and he elbowed Isiah in the mouth.
Magic and Isiah were killers on the court. I remember in that HBO doc about the Magic-Bird rivalry, Magic said when he lost the '84 championship to Bird it was the first time he felt depressed and he couldn't talk to anyone for a while.
LeBron? When he loses a championship he seems perfectly OK and can still have a great summer.
Those three guys have different personality types. |
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kwase
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Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 3069
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | | LeBron might be the first face of the league who wasn't a killer or uber-competitive. |
Is he really different from Magic in this respect? Remember Magic kissing Isiah?
There is a whole lot of "Get off my grass" in this discussion. The superstars in the past would have been thrilled if they could have teamed up and formed super teams. Every last one of them. What makes some of them and a lot of fans mad is that Lebron actually went out and did it. He took control of his career and didn't just entrust his fate to some bumbling GM or owner. The owners don't like this, either, but they brought it on themselves. |
Yeah I've seen those clips, but Magic and Isiah wanted to beat each other. I've also seen that clip from that one game when the Pistons were getting dirty with the Lakers, and magic was like "F that" and he elbowed Isiah in the mouth.
Magic and Isiah were killers on the court. I remember in that HBO doc about the Magic-Bird rivalry, Magic said when he lost the '84 championship to Bird it was the first time he felt depressed and he couldn't talk to anyone for a while.
LeBron? When he loses a championship he seems perfectly OK and can still have a great summer.
Those three guys have different personality types. |
There's just no way I could ever see Magic, Bird or Jordan wanting to play with each other. Those guys were always trying to prove they were the best and you can't do that if you team up with them. Personally, I don't think it ever even crossed their minds. I think a big part of what you see now, and what you saw in the 80's and 90's is that back then you had to prove yourself on the court before anybody labeled you a great player, regardless to what you did in high school or college. Now you have some guys that are labeled great and getting $100 million shoe deals before they've even played an NBA game. That's got to stop. |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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they got paid, then stopped caring.
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"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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