| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
2019
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10812
|
 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hydrohead wrote: | Everyone seems to be really focused on the offensive end (for good reason) but it's pretty clear Ham's focus is him being a "pit bull" (his words) on D and helping getting the team stops. His sucess with this team will be predicated on that success.
From there he'll be able to attack from different areas, maybe the dunkers spot and corner, which he has shown to be effective. Is it worth 47 mil, no, but not sure if they ever get that value back in trade. |
I'd argue before we can determine what his success is predicated on, his presence will be predicated on whether or not Rob can find a deal for him. They did a great job displaying a sense of confidence they can win with Russ but I'd like to think behind the scenes Pelinka is pulling every string possible to find a way to banish WB.
However, IF he does make it to the training camp squad, I agree about his defense needing to be noteworthy. If not, I see Ham as the kind of coach that'd make him 6th man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Lakesh0wtime
Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Posts: 5357
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Harlemlakerfan wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | Ham and Pelinka both brought up our young players.
Only Austin and Stanley were brought up.
Nunn, THT, and Monk not brought up. Kinda interesting.
Especially since two out of the 3 are under contract and the 4th and 5th highest paid |
They brought up those 2 specifically because, they both were actually there, working out. |
It was actually Austin and Wenyen though |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hydrohead
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 4112
Location: Space City
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 2019 wrote: | | hydrohead wrote: | Everyone seems to be really focused on the offensive end (for good reason) but it's pretty clear Ham's focus is him being a "pit bull" (his words) on D and helping getting the team stops. His sucess with this team will be predicated on that success.
From there he'll be able to attack from different areas, maybe the dunkers spot and corner, which he has shown to be effective. Is it worth 47 mil, no, but not sure if they ever get that value back in trade. |
I'd argue before we can determine what his success is predicated on, his presence will be predicated on whether or not Rob can find a deal for him. They did a great job displaying a sense of confidence they can win with Russ but I'd like to think behind the scenes Pelinka is pulling every string possible to find a way to banish WB.
However, IF he does make it to the training camp squad, I agree about his defense needing to be noteworthy. If not, I see Ham as the kind of coach that'd make him 6th man. |
Guess I'm putting more stock in Ham unlocking Russ than Rob finding a deal somewhere league that will workout. I'll even admit that the past doesn't leading the this conclusion, but just a hunch.
_________________
Darvin  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Harlemlakerfan
Star Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 2716
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | Harlemlakerfan wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | Ham and Pelinka both brought up our young players.
Only Austin and Stanley were brought up.
Nunn, THT, and Monk not brought up. Kinda interesting.
Especially since two out of the 3 are under contract and the 4th and 5th highest paid |
They brought up those 2 specifically because, they both were actually there, working out. |
It was actually Austin and Wenyen though |
Yes, Wenyen was also there but, I saw another photo of Stanley there as well |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lakesh0wtime
Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Posts: 5357
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Harlemlakerfan wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | Harlemlakerfan wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | Ham and Pelinka both brought up our young players.
Only Austin and Stanley were brought up.
Nunn, THT, and Monk not brought up. Kinda interesting.
Especially since two out of the 3 are under contract and the 4th and 5th highest paid |
They brought up those 2 specifically because, they both were actually there, working out. |
It was actually Austin and Wenyen though |
Yes, Wenyen was also there but, I saw another photo of Stanley there as well |
Ok so all three were there. So I don’t think it was cause who was there as you suggested unless he completely ignored wenyan lol |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
blackmamba08
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 2608
Location: Croatia
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Idk I hope I am not right but Ham sounds completely clueless for me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| troy wrote: | | governator wrote: | Bill Oram: Darvin Ham on working with VP of bball ops Rob Pelinka: “We gonna collaborate, communicate and also make sure we demonstrate.” – via Twitter billoram
Collaborate
Communicate
Demonstrate
.
.
.
Trade |
Several times, I've posted here on LG the Lakers 45 year history of disposing of head coaches after about 2.5 seasons. People shouldn't get excited over Ham saying certain things, and definitely not get used to seeing him the sidelines. If the Lakers fail to make it out of the 1st round, and I don't think we will, then all these people here celebrating the Ham hiring will be frying him with some eggs next season.
Thers is no way in hell we make it "deep" into the playoffs with the current roster, so the question really is, when will the Laker honeymoon with Mr. ham end? |
Yeah, Ham pretty much same things that Vogel did. to answer your question, Lakers coach not named Phil will always be the scapegoat of a failed season (except when there's owner power struggle then the GM will be ousted too) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
It's up to Rob and Jeanie to give Ham a team that fits. Russ is at the epicenter of making Ham's and the Laker's life difficult. Need to fix that ASAP if you want Ham to have a good start.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| blackmamba08 wrote: | | Idk I hope I am not right but Ham sounds completely clueless for me. |
I was neither impressed or disappointed. He seems worthy, just not sure this is the right job for him. Let’s see. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Outspoken
Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8453
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| blackmamba08 wrote: | | Idk I hope I am not right but Ham sounds completely clueless for me. |
Elaborate on what you mean? what about the press conference made you feel he seems clueless? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
You could have prime Phil Jackson and he's not dragging that team last year to the championship, let alone playoffs.
Ham will be as good as Rob/Jeanie handle the Russ situation and other personnel moves. They have very limited resources to improve the team if they keep Russ. Conversely, if they are one foot in the "win now" camp, and one foot in the "save assets for later" camp, they will fail in both. They really need to choose one coherent vision for the team going forward, and the fact that it seems they will keep Russ b/c they don't want to surrender one 1st rounder tells me that they are going to blur these lines, and make Ham's job even more difficult.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Jocker
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 2813
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | You could have prime Phil Jackson and he's not dragging that team last year to the championship, let alone playoffs.
Ham will be as good as Rob/Jeanie handle the Russ situation and other personnel moves. They have very limited resources to improve the team if they keep Russ. Conversely, if they are one foot in the "win now" camp, and one foot in the "save assets for later" camp, they will fail in both. They really need to choose one coherent vision for the team going forward, and the fact that it seems they will keep Russ b/c they don't want to surrender one 1st rounder tells me that they are going to blur these lines, and make Ham's job even more difficult. |
On point…. I think it won’t matter either way in terms of a championship but the Lakers have to pick a path one way or the other on this 3 superstar thing (a clearly outdated roster construction philosophy).
Walk right side of road, ok walk left side of road, ok……walk middle of road get squished like bug. -Mr. Myiagi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144472
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| blackmamba08 wrote: | | Idk I hope I am not right but Ham sounds completely clueless for me. |
Lots of cliches and coach speak. Though for someone with no history in the position that isn’t unusual.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | It's up to Rob and Jeanie to give Ham a team that fits. Russ is at the epicenter of making Ham's and the Laker's life difficult. Need to fix that ASAP if you want Ham to have a good start. |
That's the issue though. If it were Phil Jackson, or someone with stature, they could command WB be moved and get his wish. That's the power of an elite coach just like an elite player.
When we signed OLD Lebron, he had enough power to enure we would trade everything for prime AD as he needed prime AD to win a title.
If we had signed an elite level coach with stature, he could have enforced the WB trade as part of his signing. Instead, we went for mediocrity. All the coaches we aimed for had to be in line with the real scenario that Westbrook would be a Laker most likley and a Big 3 2.0 only this time the coach has WB's respect.
For what we're aiming to be, Ham is the right choice it seems. I'm just not sure what we're aiming to be is the right direction for the franchise. What is the real upside of this situation? I think it's a top 6 seed, maybe top 4, and that's if AD is extremely healthy and Westbrook plays the way Ham wants him to. Then in a year WB wants a massive contract (that we shouldn't even think of giving him) and Lebron is a FA. We may end up losing 2/3 of our big 3 for nothing in a year. I'm not sure why the FO thinks this is a great plan. They're trying to re-build the value of a big 3 that won't deliver you a title, and even if they do as well as they've set the much lower bar for, all it does is make WB and Lebron richer in a year as they go into FA having good individual season's. Not sure how this helps the Lakers longterm ... neither a title now nor closer to a title in the future. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53835
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | blackmamba08 wrote: | | Idk I hope I am not right but Ham sounds completely clueless for me. |
I was neither impressed or disappointed. He seems worthy, just not sure this is the right job for him. Let’s see. |
It’s best to keep expectations low for these intro pressers. All he can do really is offer cliches and some general philosophies because he’s talking about coaching a team that doesn’t exist yet. You try and go out there and put on a good public face because that’s all there is to do. Westbrook is obviously all anyone wants to talk about and was the subject of nearly all the questions. What’s he supposed to say?
I found him to be an engaging guy. Hard not to root for him. Seems to have more teeth to him than Vogel had and that could go a long way. We will know who he is by the staff he hires and how well the team is competing for him.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8160
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | It's up to Rob and Jeanie to give Ham a team that fits. Russ is at the epicenter of making Ham's and the Laker's life difficult. Need to fix that ASAP if you want Ham to have a good start. |
That's the issue though. If it were Phil Jackson, or someone with stature, they could command WB be moved and get his wish. That's the power of an elite coach just like an elite player.
When we signed OLD Lebron, he had enough power to enure we would trade everything for prime AD as he needed prime AD to win a title.
If we had signed an elite level coach with stature, he could have enforced the WB trade as part of his signing. Instead, we went for mediocrity. All the coaches we aimed for had to be in line with the real scenario that Westbrook would be a Laker most likley and a Big 3 2.0 only this time the coach has WB's respect.
For what we're aiming to be, Ham is the right choice it seems. I'm just not sure what we're aiming to be is the right direction for the franchise. What is the real upside of this situation? I think it's a top 6 seed, maybe top 4, and that's if AD is extremely healthy and Westbrook plays the way Ham wants him to. Then in a year WB wants a massive contract (that we shouldn't even think of giving him) and Lebron is a FA. We may end up losing 2/3 of our big 3 for nothing in a year. I'm not sure why the FO thinks this is a great plan. They're trying to re-build the value of a big 3 that won't deliver you a title, and even if they do as well as they've set the much lower bar for, all it does is make WB and Lebron richer in a year as they go into FA having good individual season's. Not sure how this helps the Lakers longterm ... neither a title now nor closer to a title in the future. |
All that makes sense. Except for this path was determined the day they signed James.
Next year is simply about the marketing and hype of the Retirement Tour.
Winning is secondary. Any consideration of a rebuild as what is best “for the Lakers long term” is also down the list of importance.
I have modest expectations for next season from a competitive standpoint. I’m hoping they can put together a better roster, can stay healthier and find a solution for the WB issue. If they can avoid the play- in I’d be shocked. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kfkilla
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 4311
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Just saw the press conference. To be honest I wasn’t impressed. Seemed like there was a lot of talk about nothing. No substance at all just lip service. Hate to say it but Ham exudes a sense of phoniness. Can’t really put my finger on it other than to say I feel the same when DFish tries to be articulate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kfkilla wrote: | | Just saw the press conference. To be honest I wasn’t impressed. Seemed like there was a lot of talk about nothing. No substance at all just lip service. Hate to say it but Ham exudes a sense of phoniness. Can’t really put my finger on it other than to say I feel the same when DFish tries to be articulate. |
The big difference is that Fisher never put in the dues like Ham did. Long time assistant coach, raved around the league by so many players and coaches.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
King Randle
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 7313
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | kfkilla wrote: | | Just saw the press conference. To be honest I wasn’t impressed. Seemed like there was a lot of talk about nothing. No substance at all just lip service. Hate to say it but Ham exudes a sense of phoniness. Can’t really put my finger on it other than to say I feel the same when DFish tries to be articulate. |
The big difference is that Fisher never put in the dues like Ham did. Long time assistant coach, raved around the league by so many players and coaches. |
As long as he hold players accountable I'm all in. Vogel kissed too many azzes. I like the fact he coached Giannis, knows how hard he worked on his body...maybe he can do the same with AD, although I'm not holding my breath because AD is going to be 30 and probably set on his ways. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23788
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Saw the full presser.
Imo it went pretty smoothly outside of 2 areas:
1. Russ laughing when camera went on him about sacrifice/coming off bench. Just a bad look.I realize he was probably mocking the question but this just goes to show Russ is not changing.
2. Ham seems to put a lot respect to Russ career accomplishments, but Russ is what he is with declining athleticism so I hope Ham isn’t thinking he’s getting OKC Russ who tbh still had his flaws.
Ham has paid his dues and seems to be ready for this job imo. The key is you can talk like Fisher or Fizdale all you want, the real signs will be behind the scenes when he has to show his tactical abilities and get buy in like Monty, Lue and Udoka have most recently done before him.
Even Lue wasn’t getting proper respect because he had Lebron in Cleveland. Now, Lue is seen as one of the best coaches in the league. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
anth2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12193
Location: Pasadena, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| blackmamba08 wrote: | | Idk I hope I am not right but Ham sounds completely clueless for me. |
Huh? How so?
Did you watch it?
He sounds brilliant
He is exactly what we need...
Clueless? Huh? what made him seem clueless? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
anth2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12193
Location: Pasadena, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerSD wrote: | Saw the full presser.
Imo it went pretty smoothly outside of 2 areas:
1. Russ laughing when camera went on him about sacrifice/coming off bench. Just a bad look.I realize he was probably mocking the question but this just goes to show Russ is not changing.
2. Ham seems to put a lot respect to Russ career accomplishments, but Russ is what he is with declining athleticism so I hope Ham isn’t thinking he’s getting OKC Russ who tbh still had his flaws.
Ham has paid his dues and seems to be ready for this job imo. The key is you can talk like Fisher or Fizdale all you want, the real signs will be behind the scenes when he has to show his tactical abilities and get buy in like Monty, Lue and Udoka have most recently done before him.
Even Lue wasn’t getting proper respect because he had Lebron in Cleveland. Now, Lue is seen as one of the best coaches in the league. |
Nice analysis....spot on.
I think the Russ talk was just a deterrent. Let's hope the FO is trying to trade him. I don't want him here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
troy
Star Player
Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 4991
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerSD wrote: | Saw the full presser.
Imo it went pretty smoothly outside of 2 areas:
1. Russ laughing when camera went on him about sacrifice/coming off bench. Just a bad look.I realize he was probably mocking the question but this just goes to show Russ is not changing.
2. Ham seems to put a lot respect to Russ career accomplishments, but Russ is what he is with declining athleticism so I hope Ham isn’t thinking he’s getting OKC Russ who tbh still had his flaws.
Ham has paid his dues and seems to be ready for this job imo. The key is you can talk like Fisher or Fizdale all you want, the real signs will be behind the scenes when he has to show his tactical abilities and get buy in like Monty, Lue and Udoka have most recently done before him.
Even Lue wasn’t getting proper respect because he had Lebron in Cleveland. Now, Lue is seen as one of the best coaches in the league. |
There's the saying, 'you can't teach an old dog new tricks.'
You have many old, future HOF players on the Laker team. None of them seem motivated enough, young enough, or invested enough to play the sort of defense Ham so eloquently pronounced the Lakers must play. And because these old players are readily established, I doubt that a rookie head coach will be able to compel them to change their habits.
I see the Lakers playing with defensive energy for the two or three weeks of the season, but after suffering from some ass-kickings by the better teams in the West, frustration will set in and these older players will revert to doing what they do, which is not play any sort of defense and complain if the head coach gets in their face about it. I think that happened to Vogel, and I predict if will happen to Ham. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SGV-Laker fan
Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 8880
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerSD wrote: | Saw the full presser.
Imo it went pretty smoothly outside of 2 areas:
1. Russ laughing when camera went on him about sacrifice/coming off bench. Just a bad look.I realize he was probably mocking the question but this just goes to show Russ is not changing.
2. Ham seems to put a lot respect to Russ career accomplishments, but Russ is what he is with declining athleticism so I hope Ham isn’t thinking he’s getting OKC Russ who tbh still had his flaws.
Ham has paid his dues and seems to be ready for this job imo. The key is you can talk like Fisher or Fizdale all you want, the real signs will be behind the scenes when he has to show his tactical abilities and get buy in like Monty, Lue and Udoka have most recently done before him.
Even Lue wasn’t getting proper respect because he had Lebron in Cleveland. Now, Lue is seen as one of the best coaches in the league. |
Problem is Lakers are and will forever be a star player’s team. Owner will back the stars up before they do with the coaches. That’s also true even when Phil was here. Therefore, we can never have a Ty Lue, Monty or Udoka because our ownership just don’t want to stand out of the way and let the head coach do his things. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23788
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | Saw the full presser.
Imo it went pretty smoothly outside of 2 areas:
1. Russ laughing when camera went on him about sacrifice/coming off bench. Just a bad look.I realize he was probably mocking the question but this just goes to show Russ is not changing.
2. Ham seems to put a lot respect to Russ career accomplishments, but Russ is what he is with declining athleticism so I hope Ham isn’t thinking he’s getting OKC Russ who tbh still had his flaws.
Ham has paid his dues and seems to be ready for this job imo. The key is you can talk like Fisher or Fizdale all you want, the real signs will be behind the scenes when he has to show his tactical abilities and get buy in like Monty, Lue and Udoka have most recently done before him.
Even Lue wasn’t getting proper respect because he had Lebron in Cleveland. Now, Lue is seen as one of the best coaches in the league. |
Problem is Lakers are and will forever be a star player’s team. Owner will back the stars up before they do with the coaches. That’s also true even when Phil was here. Therefore, we can never have a Ty Lue, Monty or Udoka because our ownership just don’t want to stand out of the way and let the head coach do his things. |
You could be correct, but I think Jeanie is learning the lesson of how hard it is without a modern FO. In a way the 2020 title gave a false sense of basketball operations. They stumbled into plan B when Kawhi declined and they suddenly thought they were the smartest FO in the league.
Imo Jeanie is beginning to understand what modern basketball ops looks like, her main challenge is if she can hang with the big $$ owners. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
