What Are the Worst All Time Lakers Trades?
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Yama
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 3:01 pm    Post subject:

I was pretty young when the Nash trade happened so I didn't really think about things such as draft picks and such and was just excited to get Nash, but was it seen as an overpay at the time? Like looking back we gave them 2 firsts and 2 seconds, plus the ability to create a TPE, for someone who was leaving anyways.(if not us wasn't he going to MIA or Toronto?)

Also were there better offers for Shaq than the MIA one? I know in this case Shaq prob got to chose his destination so we didn't have much leverage.
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 3:12 pm    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:

So if Dantley had the drug habit... and Haywood was allowed to statpad in Utah... I'm pretty sure Haywood would have put up bigger numbers.


That was really a trade for fit.

Dantley and Wilkes didn't really fit well on the court. They were both small forwards, and we got massacred on the boards.

Spencer Hayward made sense on paper. Problem was the drugs.

Dantley was a great player but hard to fit it -- he was an undersized low-post, ball-dominant guy. He got traded by two teams (Lakers, Pistons) who immediately won a ring after getting rid of him.
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: What Are the Worst All Time Lakers Trades?

yinoma2001 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
It's crazy b/c Marc was not a top pick, was overweight and didn't look like the likely HOFer (b/c that HOF considers international + NBA and other considerations) he has become. Imagine if we had some other chip we could have given Memphis and had both Gasol Bros.


I've heard people say this, but in fact he was the MVP of the Spanish league in his last year there.


Why was he a 48th pick, especially by that time, Pau was one of the better players in the league too.


For exactly the reasons you gave. When we drafted him in ‘07, he was a so-so prospect. Then he blossomed. The Grizzlies were an awful team back then, and they wanted to rebuild. It worked out well for both teams.
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: What Are the Worst All Time Lakers Trades?

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
It's crazy b/c Marc was not a top pick, was overweight and didn't look like the likely HOFer (b/c that HOF considers international + NBA and other considerations) he has become. Imagine if we had some other chip we could have given Memphis and had both Gasol Bros.


I've heard people say this, but in fact he was the MVP of the Spanish league in his last year there.


Why was he a 48th pick, especially by that time, Pau was one of the better players in the league too.


For exactly the reasons you gave. When we drafted him in ‘07, he was a so-so prospect. Then he blossomed. The Grizzlies were an awful team back then, and they wanted to rebuild. It worked out well for both teams.



When we drafted Marc, he was already 22 years old and there were a lot of questions about whether he had the speed and athleticism to make it in the NBA. I'd say he was considered a project whose ceiling was "solid journeyman."
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 3:32 pm    Post subject:

1. Nash

2. Westbrook
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 4:22 pm    Post subject:

I suppose it’s whether you just look at the trade itself or include the aftermath …

For me it was the Shaq trade. I understand the context of having to get rid of him quickly to make sure Kobe understood we were choosing him which was the absolute right thing to do…wish we traded Shaq a year earlier for more value but we should have gotten Wade instead of Butler. Odom was still considered a SF at the time as was Butler but we were already overloaded at SF. Plus we needed a PG.

We went from a finals team to not making the playoffs with that trade. Riley even said he was grateful (surprised) he didn’t have to give up Wade.

I believe Kobe ascends to GOAT if we get Wade Odom in that deal. Kobe played some of his best ball during that time, we wasted that potential.
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 6:54 pm    Post subject:

Hanging from Rafters wrote:
I suppose it’s whether you just look at the trade itself or include the aftermath …

For me it was the Shaq trade. I understand the context of having to get rid of him quickly to make sure Kobe understood we were choosing him which was the absolute right thing to do…wish we traded Shaq a year earlier for more value but we should have gotten Wade instead of Butler. Odom was still considered a SF at the time as was Butler but we were already overloaded at SF. Plus we needed a PG.

We went from a finals team to not making the playoffs with that trade. Riley even said he was grateful (surprised) he didn’t have to give up Wade.

I believe Kobe ascends to GOAT if we get Wade Odom in that deal. Kobe played some of his best ball during that time, we wasted that potential.


You're over a barrel when you got a disgruntled Shaq who demanded to be dealt to one of 3-4 teams. They were never going to give us Wade. Dunno why that as a scenario still lingers on. I doubt we would've come out on top of that one (or come out w/ Wade) even if Shaq hadn't sabotaged the trade and secretly told the FO to deal him to MIA w/o letting the Heat know that. But he wouldn't have done that because he didn't want to go to a barren team on the other end.
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 7:53 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
32 year old Brian Grant, 6'9" undersized center with shot knees, albatross contract through 2007 (no money for free agents). He stayed home smoking weed after the trade. $15 million was the highest paid player on the team, he couldn't play with knee tendonitis, when he did play he had no mobility and no impact (at least Kwame Brown had impact on defense). His contract was so bad, the CBA was amended to include an amnesty provision (his albatross contract was not taxed).


He had Parkinson's disease, though he wasn't diagnosed until after we released him. It doesn't change anything about his effectiveness as a player, but it explains a lot about why his career fell off the map.
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 8:37 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
D’Angelo Russell + Mozgov for Brook Lopez and a pick was pretty bad. Though if we had kept Lopez, we probably would have won that trade.


Magic let Brook and Jules walk for nothing. Unforgiveable.

Brook apparently would have come back to the Lakers (and wanted to) for cheap, and with his Bird rights, we could have kept him for the future. A perfect pick and pop big for LBJ and would have solved all our center who can shoot issues.

Imagine having Lopez and Zubac fill into the center position. That's a very solid pair even at this year. Instead of trading Zubac for an inferior player Muscala
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 9:08 pm    Post subject:

We could evaluate a trade in hindsight but I wouldn't judge the front office performance based on it.

For example, I wouldn't blame Mitch for the Nash trade. His injury was more unfortunate and there were plenty of reasons to believe he and Kobe would work well together.

In the contrary, the Butler for Kwame trade was pretty bad. Kwame was viewed as one of the worst first pick of all time. Butler's trade value was pretty high. If not for a better player, we should receive draft pick in the deal. Of course, I am aware Kwame's salary was a key part of the Pau trade but that's luck more than thorough planning. In comparison, the Zubac trade was similar but worse. At least Kwame did help us win some games in the Suns series and actually, Kwame was a good one on one interior defender. Muscala didn't help us win any game. Zubac could land us a late first round pick I believe.

Westbrook trade is terrible in so many ways. There are failure to identify what the team needed and very poor player's trade value. We knew Westbrook would be the top 5 highest paid player in the league for the next two years and there was no way he would perform in that level. If you want to argue, the role players included in the trade was necessary for salary match then at least kept the pick.

It definitely feels the Westbrook trade is the worst trade among the ones I mentioned above. More importantly, there is no luck involved. It was pure poor evaluation by the front office.
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 9:12 pm    Post subject:

Hanging from Rafters wrote:
I suppose it’s whether you just look at the trade itself or include the aftermath …

For me it was the Shaq trade. I understand the context of having to get rid of him quickly to make sure Kobe understood we were choosing him which was the absolute right thing to do…wish we traded Shaq a year earlier for more value but we should have gotten Wade instead of Butler. Odom was still considered a SF at the time as was Butler but we were already overloaded at SF. Plus we needed a PG.

We went from a finals team to not making the playoffs with that trade. Riley even said he was grateful (surprised) he didn’t have to give up Wade.

I believe Kobe ascends to GOAT if we get Wade Odom in that deal. Kobe played some of his best ball during that time, we wasted that potential.

Wade was never an option unfortunately. It was not like we chose Butler or Odom over Wade. The only question was could we receive more draft picks instead?
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 11:09 pm    Post subject:

Hanging from Rafters wrote:
I suppose it’s whether you just look at the trade itself or include the aftermath …

For me it was the Shaq trade. I understand the context of having to get rid of him quickly to make sure Kobe understood we were choosing him which was the absolute right thing to do…wish we traded Shaq a year earlier for more value but we should have gotten Wade instead of Butler. Odom was still considered a SF at the time as was Butler but we were already overloaded at SF. Plus we needed a PG.

We went from a finals team to not making the playoffs with that trade. Riley even said he was grateful (surprised) he didn’t have to give up Wade.

I believe Kobe ascends to GOAT if we get Wade Odom in that deal. Kobe played some of his best ball during that time, we wasted that potential.


Why would Miami trade Wade for an older Shaq? That’s like trading Kobe for Hakeem Olajuwon in 1998. And you think Miami would have included Odom too? Just my opinion but I find that hard to believe.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 3:26 am    Post subject:

Two recent ones that stick out to me:

Westbrook trade. Obvious why. This is by far the worst.

Another one that I really didn't like was Odom trade for a TPE, when Kobe/Bynum were all-stars and Gasol was still able to be an all-star caliber player.

Odom was on crack in turns out, so for sure they made the right call trading him. It's that they didn't give that roster a 6MOTY level of player. No one knew LO was on crack at the time and they could have gotten something for a pick/TPE. At some point they got Sessions, but he wasn't an impact player. Can you imagine that year's team with all-star healthy Bynum, Kobe still being a top 10 player, Gasol still being a solid 17-9-3 guy, and you get equal value for someone like LO? May have been able to make a run. Really pisses me off to this day that Kobe's last few elite years were wasted away with average head coaches, and a FO that was not going all in to get him the best talent possible. Kobe was still a MVP level guy in 11-12, 12-13. We mismanaged the team around Kobe those 2 years pretty badly in hindsight and trading Odom away without an impact player coming back was a bad bad move. Odom was near to our Dray Green in value at the time in what he did for us on defense and some things offense. We needed to get some value in there for him. In their defense, they wanted to get CP3, but even if that fell through, you can't just send a player of that value away on a contender with Kobe without getting a high quality player back.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 5:06 am    Post subject:

I agree they didn't get fair value for Odom considering he was coming off a good season. But in fairness to them they got Sterned which led to all that. Trading Odom and Gasol for Chris Paul and then the soon to be happening Howard trade could have gotten them another title.

Unfortunately after that trade Odom was furious. He no longer wanted to be a Laker. Neither Odom or Pau were the same player after that which would have made that trade (which also reduced salary) a steal. They could have gotten some better value for Odom though perhaps, and they also could have traded Pau instead of letting him pout and under D'Antoni. If I recall correctly they could have moved him for a young Kyle Lowry at the time and passed on it.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 5:45 am    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
I agree they didn't get fair value for Odom considering he was coming off a good season. But in fairness to them they got Sterned which led to all that. Trading Odom and Gasol for Chris Paul and then the soon to be happening Howard trade could have gotten them another title.

Unfortunately after that trade Odom was furious. He no longer wanted to be a Laker. Neither Odom or Pau were the same player after that which would have made that trade (which also reduced salary) a steal. They could have gotten some better value for Odom though perhaps, and they also could have traded Pau instead of letting him pout and under D'Antoni. If I recall correctly they could have moved him for a young Kyle Lowry at the time and passed on it.

Pau began to pout a year later, moresl than then. He didn't take to Mike Brown, as it was a big change from Phil and the system the Lakers won rings with, and Pau was more a #3 with Mike Brown, with a big focus on Bynum as a #2. This is the year I'm talking about.

My point is that if you look at the level Pau had in 11-12, Kobe in 11-12 and Bynum in his prime athletic peak, there was an opportunity there to make a run to the Finals. A young inexperienced OKC team went to the Finals that year and Lebron was still learning how to win in Miami. We probably don't win a title there, but I think we lost a significant player in Odom who was similar to what Dray Green does for GST (not exactly but a lot of the same contributions) and we didn't even get a player back. You get similar level player back in that trade and you've got a real chance to make a run in 11-12.

12-13 was different as that's when Howard came into play, he had his back issues and there was friction between Howard/Bryant. There's also the Nash trade that was mentioned, it was a very bad trade in hindsight. I thought our opportunity was moreso in 11-12, when we had peak value of Odom/Gasol etc and after the CP3 trade veto we didn't act properly in giving Kobe/Bynum a title level team.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 8:49 am    Post subject:

People are really overrating Shaq on here. This wasn’t the 1996 version of him. And making it out of the East wasn’t as difficult as getting past the Spurs, Mavs and Suns in the West.

He got motivated and actually bothered to try and get himself into shape when going to Miami. Keep Shaq in LA and you’ll have an older, unmotivated Shaq that prefers to heal on company time because he got hurt on company time. And Kobe would be on the Clippers.

And Shaq missed 95 games in the next 4 years. That was the motivated version of Shaq that Miami got. We would have gotten an inferior version of that.

You want to lose Kobe to the Clippers so we can keep a guy like that instead? The Clippers aren’t exactly well liked on this forum.


Last edited by Steve007 on Wed May 11, 2022 9:00 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 8:58 am    Post subject:

That Eddie Jones trade bothered me because the team was on a 10 game winning streak, just beat Utah in Utah and the team couldn’t defend after he left. And I was always curious how he would have done with Phil; those Shaq/Kobe teams weren’t that talented after the big 2. Whenever the 2001 Lakers get compared to the 87 Lakers or other teams from the past, it can be tempting to pick the 87 Lakers because they had more impressive names on the roster.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 11:16 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
People are really overrating Shaq on here. This wasn’t the 1996 version of him. And making it out of the East wasn’t as difficult as getting past the Spurs, Mavs and Suns in the West.


He went downhill very quickly after the trade, as well. Yeah he did win a title in Miami but that was all Wade. Shaq had a bone bruise or something (been ages I forget) and didn't play well in the playoffs. Was a role player in the finals. By his third season in Miami Shaq was a 17 and 7 player. By year 2 he was down to 20 and 9. They only got one year of 22.9/10.4/2.3 Shaq, and he was gone after three seasons.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 12:23 pm    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
People are really overrating Shaq on here. This wasn’t the 1996 version of him. And making it out of the East wasn’t as difficult as getting past the Spurs, Mavs and Suns in the West.


He went downhill very quickly after the trade, as well. Yeah he did win a title in Miami but that was all Wade. Shaq had a bone bruise or something (been ages I forget) and didn't play well in the playoffs. Was a role player in the finals. By his third season in Miami Shaq was a 17 and 7 player. By year 2 he was down to 20 and 9. They only got one year of 22.9/10.4/2.3 Shaq, and he was gone after three seasons.


He made a brief resurgence as an all star on Phoenix with a 17.8/8.4 season.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 7:18 pm    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
People are really overrating Shaq on here. This wasn’t the 1996 version of him. And making it out of the East wasn’t as difficult as getting past the Spurs, Mavs and Suns in the West.


He went downhill very quickly after the trade, as well. Yeah he did win a title in Miami but that was all Wade. Shaq had a bone bruise or something (been ages I forget) and didn't play well in the playoffs. Was a role player in the finals. By his third season in Miami Shaq was a 17 and 7 player. By year 2 he was down to 20 and 9. They only got one year of 22.9/10.4/2.3 Shaq, and he was gone after three seasons.


It would have been interesting if Shaq was more motivated in LA and was willing to stay and be the #2 option, letting Kobe take over as the clear #1. But the chances of that happening were about the same as Shaq learning to hit his free throws. He wasn’t going to be Robin and let Kobe be Batman.

Another thing I remember is some fans being happy Shaq left.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 8:26 pm    Post subject:

It's gotta be the Westbrook trade.

I honestly think the Lakers would be contending going forward had that trade not happened. The Lakers would have a lot of depth. Or, the Lakers could've made a smaller trade that didn't trade away ALL of it.

I don't see a world-beater in the playoffs right now. The Lakers would have to get lucky with health of course, but that's all teams. The Warriors are lucky to have gotten healthy at the right time. Steph and Klay have dealt with a number of injury issues throughout their careers and look pretty good right now. It can happen, even if some people can't help but think that LeBron and AD are never going to make it to the end of a season ever again.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 9:21 pm    Post subject:

Yama wrote:
I was pretty young when the Nash trade happened so I didn't really think about things such as draft picks and such and was just excited to get Nash, but was it seen as an overpay at the time? Like looking back we gave them 2 firsts and 2 seconds, plus the ability to create a TPE, for someone who was leaving anyways.(if not us wasn't he going to MIA or Toronto?)

Also were there better offers for Shaq than the MIA one? I know in this case Shaq prob got to chose his destination so we didn't have much leverage.


There was talk about the possibility of getting Nash in return for Shaq. Instead Nash went to the Suns.

I think the deal for Nash was seen as an overpay. On the other hand, the team just lost a series to OKC and got nothing from the PG position. The team lost in 5 but blew a 16 point lead in one game and a 7 point lead with around 1-2 minutes left in another game. OKC went to the Finals and it was thought an all-star PG could make a huge difference, especially when it came to holding leads late in the game.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 9:46 pm    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
Yama wrote:
I was pretty young when the Nash trade happened so I didn't really think about things such as draft picks and such and was just excited to get Nash, but was it seen as an overpay at the time? Like looking back we gave them 2 firsts and 2 seconds, plus the ability to create a TPE, for someone who was leaving anyways.(if not us wasn't he going to MIA or Toronto?)

Also were there better offers for Shaq than the MIA one? I know in this case Shaq prob got to chose his destination so we didn't have much leverage.


There was talk about the possibility of getting Nash in return for Shaq. Instead Nash went to the Suns.

I think the deal for Nash was seen as an overpay. On the other hand, the team just lost a series to OKC and got nothing from the PG position. The team lost in 5 but blew a 16 point lead in one game and a 7 point lead with around 1-2 minutes left in another game. OKC went to the Finals and it was thought an all-star PG could make a huge difference, especially when it came to holding leads late in the game.


We lost to OKC in 5, but the series was a lot closer than that would suggest. Mike Brown and company (including Quinn Snyder) basically had the right gameplan, but Bynum and Pau were just too slow to switch on defense. Not having Odom anymore was a big deal.

People on this board were thrilled to get Nash for what we thought would be two late first rounders and two second rounders. But that trade terrorized us on lottery night for years.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 10:24 pm    Post subject:

Interesting reads on this thread.

I'm still going with Westbrook as the worst trade in Laker history, good discussion on several others though.
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 4:12 am    Post subject:

Westbrook right now

If we trade for Wall and give up a pick that would take over as the worst
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