Was passing on Jayson Tatum the biggest draft blunder in the history of the franchise?
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Was passing on Tatum the biggest draft blunder in the history of the Lakers?
yes
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no
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 56%  [ 18 ]
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:54 am    Post subject:

joeblow wrote:
Halflife wrote:
anyone who thinks tatum would have been kept in AD deal hasn't been paying attention.


Nah, they're paying attention. It's called willful ignorance.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:33 am    Post subject:

He's a good player, but I don't see anything particularly special. Not even close to Greek Freak, he's no Curry. People should be able to see through the media's attempts to push a narrative that he's on the same level.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 5:59 pm    Post subject:

Yes it is, its not the franchise‘s biggest blunder, its Magic Johnson‘s biggest blunder and his legacy has been shaken seriously for me for the rest of my life.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:57 pm    Post subject:

M2K wrote:
Tatum was the safest top 5 pick...by far.

Fox torched Ball... utterly embarrassing him in a pivotal matchup but Fox awas not on Tatum's level.

Fultz was way overhyped and I still can't believe a team traded up with Boston to get him.

Lakers had their shot at Tatum.. and wet their pants. That stench centers around Magic and his influence on the FO at the time.


Didn’t Ball have a hamstring injury in that game? In the first matchup UCLA beat Kentucky.

Of course, my source for Lonzo being injured is LaVar Ball lol. But it’s still a possibility.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:54 am    Post subject:

nevitt_smrek wrote:
He's a good player, but I don't see anything particularly special. Not even close to Greek Freak, he's no Curry. People should be able to see through the media's attempts to push a narrative that he's on the same level.

He's still young enough to improve, but I agree with that assessment up to this point.

Still, either way he wouldn't be a Laker today even if we drafted him AND we still got a ring coming out of those draft years. When it comes to Tatum, I have zero to complain about as a Laker fan since I wouldn't change anything that happened before our ring ceremony.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 4:53 am    Post subject:

nevitt_smrek wrote:
He's a good player, but I don't see anything particularly special. Not even close to Greek Freak, he's no Curry. People should be able to see through the media's attempts to push a narrative that he's on the same level.


You're talking about a guy who is first-team all-NBA and who finished sixth in the MVP voting. You're saying that you don't see anything particular special because he's not close to Giannis and Curry, who are likely in the all-time top 15-20, if not higher.

Come on.
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ThePageDude
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 4:54 am    Post subject:

joeblow wrote:

<snip>
He's still young enough to improve, but I agree with that assessment up to this point.

Still, either way he wouldn't be a Laker today even if we drafted him AND we still got a ring coming out of those draft years. When it comes to Tatum, I have zero to complain about as a Laker fan since I wouldn't change anything that happened before our ring ceremony.


That's accepting poor decision making because fate intervened and rendered harmless the poor decision making. (The poor decision making was not making sufficient effort to work out Tatum, leaking draft information to the public, getting fixated on one player, all basic principles of competent FO draft management).

I don't claim Tatum would have been a Laker or stayed a Laker. That's not what I complain about.
I do claim that the FO conducted that draft poorly and must NOT be excused for their poor performance. That's what I complain about.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:00 am    Post subject:

You can't separate Tatum from the synergy he has with Jaylen Brown, Grant Williams, Robert Williams, Derrick White, etc. Boston's success isn't predicated on him alone. In a vacuum, he's a great player and can probably carry a bad team with his scoring, but by no means does it guarantee the Lakers a ring, much less championship contention. Is he a crucial piece to a contending team? Absolutely, but it's also about team construction, team philosophy, coaching, player development, etc. It's too simplistic to say that the Lakers would be good if they had him. Personally, I've never been sold on how they've developed players. The last one they turned into an all-star was Bynum, but that's because Mitch and company were sold on his potential and willing to stick with him.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:46 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
joeblow wrote:

<snip>
He's still young enough to improve, but I agree with that assessment up to this point.

Still, either way he wouldn't be a Laker today even if we drafted him AND we still got a ring coming out of those draft years. When it comes to Tatum, I have zero to complain about as a Laker fan since I wouldn't change anything that happened before our ring ceremony.


That's accepting poor decision making because fate intervened and rendered harmless the poor decision making. (The poor decision making was not making sufficient effort to work out Tatum, leaking draft information to the public, getting fixated on one player, all basic principles of competent FO draft management).

I don't claim Tatum would have been a Laker or stayed a Laker. That's not what I complain about.
I do claim that the FO conducted that draft poorly and must NOT be excused for their poor performance. That's what I complain about.

I didn't suggest otherwise. My only point is that the team made a lot of decisions from when Kobe retired until the end of the regular season 2020, and warts and all, we won a championship.

Because of that singularly important fact, there is not one decision that the front office made that I want undone since doing so for whatever reason could possibly mean we'd have no ring to show for it. All other considerations are subordinate due to that perspective.

Now, from the day we won it all and going forward from that, every decision deserves scrutiny. Of course injuries are a huge factor in our lack of success for the last two seasons (#1 to me), but I've been as vocal as most (reasonable) members here about what I view as TERRIBLE decisions in this particular season about the roster make up. So I am not advocating an infinite leash of grace for anyone involved, including ownership, if we can't do a tremendously better job in the future (which is now).

But to the point of this topic, Tatum as a Laker is 100% a pre-championship issue of consideration. As I said, since we won it all I don't have any intention to lament what wouldn't have been sustained (his presence on the team) in any circumstance with Lebron coming over. All the woulda, coulda, shouldas are way too short sighted in that any changes could rewrite things in all kinds of unforseen ways where we are still sitting on 16 rings.

I mean, just to play along for arguments sake only, here's what could've possibly gone wrong for us if we drafted Tatum over Ball. With the team unimpressed with DRuss and wanting to dump the mistakes of Mozgov and Deng from the financials, we send the youngster to the Nets as compensation for taking one of those two old timers.

The Lakers, with all time great point guard Magic chiming in, are now looking for the next PG to run the offense. They are also looking to be frugal when it comes to vets because the main goal is to target superstars to build around as we've always done going back to the days of snagging Kareem and Shaq. The team wasn't looking to just add a high level, expensive PG from the market to play with the youngsters, especially with a prospect in Ball available at #2 of the draft.

I'm not saying it was the best decision... just summarizing how I viewed their thought process.

Now, up comes the question of getting the best player available regardless of need, right? Sure, Tatum is the obvious answer to all now, but very few people in the media, let alone here at the LG forums, had him ranked that high as a slam dunk choice for a #2 pick.

I was neutral since I do not follow college bball at all, but let's say we did go for Tatum. Not only, as I and others point out, would he be a Pelican right now, but what would the Lakers have done with the #27 pick we got for dumping Mozgov for DRuss?

With SF Tatum and no point guard, I highly doubt we would've still gotten yet another SF in Kuzma. I wouldn't have been surprised to see the Lakers target who they thought would be the best PG available instead.

That is a HUUUGE domino to fall down when it comes to rewriting the history of the championship season in 2020. Ultimately, Kuzma was the only young player we kept by the time AD came on board. If we instead had some PG picked at #27 instead of him, would that've helped or hurt our chances?

I'd say hurt is more likely since he helped solidify our main strength as a team in the bubble playoffs which was defensive versatility, skill and length (with some bonus second unit scoring and playmaking). No point guard taken that close to the 2nd round would have as much of a positive defensive impact because they are smaller players. No Tatum AND no Kuzma might've meant no 17th ring.

Please don't over react. We still should've been the favorites (even if worse off in this scenario), but my overall point is that because nothing is guaranteed, I wouldn't have changed a thing. If by some crazy series of events we had Tatum instead of Kuz in the bubble, on paper we are definitely better, and would look to some in position to win even more in the future, but it isn't guaranteed and we may have lost in 2020 with him on board because you just never know.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:08 am    Post subject:

At the time, we went with the majority.

HOWEVER, the biggest blunder was not even working him out. That’s malpractice. He was a top five prospect, how do you not even bring him in for a workout?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:18 am    Post subject:

textbook wrote:
At the time, we went with the majority.

HOWEVER, the biggest blunder was not even working him out. That’s malpractice. He was a top five prospect, how do you not even bring him in for a workout?


The majority was Magic Johnson. The Laker scouts weren’t impressed.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:28 am    Post subject:

How long are we going to dwell on this?

Obviously, I wouldn't hesitate to trade LBJ or AD for him, but of course that's not even a remote possibility.

Of course picking Lonzo over Tatum was the wrong choice.

I think BI is still a level below Tatum b/c he is not as good of a 2 way player. But with our 3 #2 picks, and a #7 pick, we didn't get anyone of Tatum's level. It is what it is.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:37 am    Post subject:

joeblow wrote:

<snip>
All the woulda, coulda, shouldas are way too short sighted in that any changes could rewrite things in all kinds of unforseen ways where we are still sitting on 16 rings.
<snip>


Maybe we're more aligned than not. I see you discussing at least 2 different issues:

1) Does the FO deserve (a lot? some?) credit for the championship? YES
FO performance should be measured by the sum total of all decisions, good and bad. And ultimately the end result: in this case they have 1 championship.
(The one qualifier here is how much of a role good fortune played, but that's another debate)
2) Does the end-result excuse all prior poor decisions or execution? NO
If we don't objectively examine all decisions as they were made AT THAT POINT IN TIME and call out the bad ones we will never learn from our mistakes and be doomed to repeat them.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:49 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
joeblow wrote:

<snip>
All the woulda, coulda, shouldas are way too short sighted in that any changes could rewrite things in all kinds of unforseen ways where we are still sitting on 16 rings.
<snip>


Maybe we're more aligned than not. I see you discussing at least 2 different issues:

1) Does the FO deserve (a lot? some?) credit for the championship? YES
FO performance should be measured by the sum total of all decisions, good and bad. And ultimately the end result: in this case they have 1 championship.
(The one qualifier here is how much of a role good fortune played, but that's another debate)
2) Does the end-result excuse all prior poor decisions or execution? NO
If we don't objectively examine all decisions as they were made AT THAT POINT IN TIME and call out the bad ones we will never learn from our mistakes and be doomed to repeat them.


Broken record time: One of my biggest concerns has been that the bubble title validates the way that the front office operated. The bubble title is a good thing, but we got there by chasing quick fixes. It's not a question of whether we should give back the bubble title and undo the transactions that led up to it. That's impossible anyway. The question is whether the bubble title validates the quick fix philosophy.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:29 am    Post subject:

Lonzo is the reason why i got banned from LG


I was so upset when we picked him.

It is not that he is a scrub... it's that his ceiling wasn't that high at all.

If you look at the NBA real PG always have issues in the playoff. Let alone a "real PG" that can't create his own shot.

Tatum was always the one.

Since his rookie year he has shown us what he got.

Closest thing to Kobe in terms of ability and skill.

IMO a player who is not able to consistently get a shot off the dribble is a no no... but if you combine that with a 6"6+ frame then you got a Tatum, Luka, Ingram, etc we messed up
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:48 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
joeblow wrote:

<snip>
All the woulda, coulda, shouldas are way too short sighted in that any changes could rewrite things in all kinds of unforseen ways where we are still sitting on 16 rings.
<snip>


Maybe we're more aligned than not. I see you discussing at least 2 different issues:

1) Does the FO deserve (a lot? some?) credit for the championship? YES
FO performance should be measured by the sum total of all decisions, good and bad. And ultimately the end result: in this case they have 1 championship.
(The one qualifier here is how much of a role good fortune played, but that's another debate)
2) Does the end-result excuse all prior poor decisions or execution? NO
If we don't objectively examine all decisions as they were made AT THAT POINT IN TIME and call out the bad ones we will never learn from our mistakes and be doomed to repeat them.


Broken record time: One of my biggest concerns has been that the bubble title validates the way that the front office operated. The bubble title is a good thing, but we got there by chasing quick fixes. It's not a question of whether we should give back the bubble title and undo the transactions that led up to it. That's impossible anyway. The question is whether the bubble title validates the quick fix philosophy.


I'm with you on this broken record, so double broken record it is.
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:25 pm    Post subject:

You guys are complaining that we didn’t get this choker?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:54 pm    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
You guys are complaining that we didn’t get this choker?


27-10-4 on 10/20FG 4/9 3 PT


pure hate
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:00 pm    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
You guys are complaining that we didn’t get this choker?


27-10-4 on 10/20FG 4/9 3 PT


pure hate


The kid just isnt ready to be that #1 of a title team. Put him with Lebron though, I have no doubt he would thrive and would not be struggling the way he is now.....similar to how Wiggins thrives in his role in GSW, having that veteran facilitating leader for Tatum would be ideal for him. He put up most of those numbers when GSW was stagnant and momentum was on the Celtics side following a couple lackadaisical Warrior plays when the game was getting away from them in the third quarter. The moment that the game started to get away from the Celtics, Tatum disappeared again.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:19 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
scout_0 wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
You guys are complaining that we didn’t get this choker?


27-10-4 on 10/20FG 4/9 3 PT


pure hate


The kid just isnt ready to be that #1 of a title team. Put him with Lebron though, I have no doubt he would thrive and would not be struggling the way he is now.....similar to how Wiggins thrives in his role in GSW, having that veteran facilitating leader for Tatum would be ideal for him. He put up most of those numbers when GSW was stagnant and momentum was on the Celtics side following a couple lackadaisical Warrior plays when the game was getting away from them in the third quarter. The moment that the game started to get away from the Celtics, Tatum disappeared again.


I believe Tatum is overrated.
But he's a great #2 imo, which is a great thing to be.
Hopefully Boston never gets a #1.

BTW, I'm using the context of the #1s we've had on the Lakers, so I guess that's not really fair for him. But who cares. He's a Celtic. He can kick rocks.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:19 pm    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
You guys are complaining that we didn’t get this choker?


27-10-4 on 10/20FG 4/9 3 PT


pure hate


And he can’t even hit his free throws in the 4th quarter. What did he do in the 4th again? Proves my point. Talented player that didn’t get it done when it matters most.

Let’s not call him the next Kobe Bryant yet. A great player? Of course. A guy that will win multiple titles? Let’s wait a little bit first.


Last edited by Steve007 on Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:26 pm    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
You guys are complaining that we didn’t get this choker?


27-10-4 on 10/20FG 4/9 3 PT


pure hate


idk dude has choked in massive/critical moments now multiple years in the Playoffs. It's not always strictly about raw stats. He's still obviously a really good player just should absolutely not be mentioned among the very best in the NBA which i've been seeing a lot during these Playoffs.. He's absolutely not at that level imo. He's still young as well so who knows how his future shakes out but all we can judge is the past and present thus far.

Also, i'm not sure he's much better then Ingram honestly.. Ingram was killing it in the Playoffs he just has a massively inferior supporting cast to Tatum. I got no problem with giving Tatum the nod especially because of his 2 way play but it's def. not a big gap between the two imo.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:17 am    Post subject:

Tatum is not a #1 yet, but he will get there. Kid is only 24 years old.

He was absolutely gassed last night. His shots were barely hitting the front of the rim.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:54 am    Post subject:

Jayson Tatum takes out Kevin Durant, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Jimmy Butler, only to fall to Andrew Wiggins.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:07 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
scout_0 wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
You guys are complaining that we didn’t get this choker?


27-10-4 on 10/20FG 4/9 3 PT


pure hate


And he can’t even hit his free throws in the 4th quarter. What did he do in the 4th again? Proves my point. Talented player that didn’t get it done when it matters most.

Let’s not call him the next Kobe Bryant yet. A great player? Of course. A guy that will win multiple titles? Let’s wait a little bit first.


So you take Lonzo Ball over him?
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