Was passing on Jayson Tatum the biggest draft blunder in the history of the franchise?
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Was passing on Tatum the biggest draft blunder in the history of the Lakers?
yes
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no
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RashardA
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 2:51 pm    Post subject: Was passing on Jayson Tatum the biggest draft blunder in the history of the franchise?

A pretty straight forward question.

That one miscalculation cost the Lakers a true franchise player.

Not only a true franchise player but one who is a disciple of the greatest Laker to ever wear the uniform, Kobe Bryant.

The way it would have been a seamless transition is scary.

And to those who will respond with the "well he would have been traded for AD anyway so what does it matter?"

That just further solidifies how GOD awful the Magic/Rob front office has been when it comes to evaluating talent.

If this regime would have traded both BI and Tatum for a brittle Anthony Davis, they should never again in life be allowed near any team's front office.
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epic_
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 2:57 pm    Post subject:

Lebron, BI and Tatum.
Don't they all need the ball in their hands (offensive initiators) to be at their highest productive selves?
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 3:02 pm    Post subject:

1) Again, traded for AD at the 1st opportunity, just like with all the other young kids. That was always going to be the endgame after Lebron signed. There is no player development or youth movement on Lebron's timeline.
2) Tatum and BI were not the same players they are today. It's futile to speculate about this. They don't blossom here with the current coaching staff and player development personnel.
3) Yes, the front office is awful, but the AD got them the ring. Rob bid against himself and should have kept a few more assets. Lakers would be in a different position today if he put protections on the picks or kept Hart/#4 (Garland). He gave up way too much.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 3:06 pm    Post subject:

Drafting is an inexact science. Nobody gets it right all the time. But like most of our problems, the blunder lies in our flawed process. Magic was so enamored and focused on Lonzo it felt like they didn’t really consider anyone else. A better process may have resulted in the same pick, but at least you’d be relying on an evaluation that was more sound.
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Gellollo
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 3:12 pm    Post subject:

I don't even remember Tatum being the consensus #3 pick. He was projected top 5, sure, but only the Celtics seemed to covet him that highly. Josh Jackson had just as much buzz, if not more.

I am just going off media buzz though. Not actual team scouting.
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2019
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 3:26 pm    Post subject:

People keep talking about Tatum would've been traded for AD. IMO Lakers would've waited one more season til AD was a FA and then went and got him. BI took a couple years to develop while Tatum out the gate was looking pretty polished. Me thinks he'd have been either kept out of a deal with others added instead or more like Lakers just wait as LeBron/Tatum/BI would have been good enough to stay atop the west one more season til Davis hit free agency.
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j-dawg
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 3:31 pm    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
Tatum would've been traded for AD
this
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 3:31 pm    Post subject:

They haven't had many lottery picks in franchise history, so that narrows it down quite a bit.

1958 #1 pick - Elgin Baylor (#5 pick Guy Rodgers, #14 pick Hal Greer, #23 pick Wayne Embry)
1979 #1 pick - Magic Johnson (#5 pick Sidney Moncrief, #65 pick Bill Laimbeer)
1982 #1 pick - James Worthy (#2 pick Terry Cummings, #3 pick Dominque Wilkins)

1960 #2 pick - Jerry West (#6 pick Lenny Wilkins, #8 pick Tom Sanders)
2015 #2 pick - Deangelo Russell (#4 pick Kristaps Porzingis, #11 pick Myles Turner, #13 pick Devin Booker)
2016 #2 pick - Brandon Ingram (#3 pick Jaylen Brown, #7 pick Jamal Murray, #11 pick Domantas Sabonis, #27 pick Pascal Siakam)
2017 #2 pick - Lonzo Ball (#3 pick Jayson Taytum, #13 pick Donovan Mitchell, #14 pick Bam Adebayo)

1956 #3 pick - Jim Paxson
1957 #3 pick - Jim Krebs

1959 #4 pick - Tom Hawkins

1961 #5 pick - Wayne Yates
1964 #5 pick - Walt Hazzard
1973 #5 pick - Kermit Washington

1955 #6 pick - Dick Garmaker
1977 #6 pick - Kenny Carr (#8 pick Jack Sikma, #12 pick Cedric Maxwell, #7 pick Bernard King)

1966 #7 pick - Jerry Chambers
2014 #7 pick - Julius Randle (#13 pick Zach Lavine, #25 pick Clint Capela, #39 pick Jerami Grant, #41 pick Nikola Jokic)
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Last edited by JUST-MING on Sat May 14, 2022 4:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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deal
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 4:10 pm    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
People keep talking about Tatum would've been traded for AD. IMO Lakers would've waited one more season til AD was a FA and then went and got him. BI took a couple years to develop while Tatum out the gate was looking pretty polished. Me thinks he'd have been either kept out of a deal with others added instead or more like Lakers just wait as LeBron/Tatum/BI would have been good enough to stay atop the west one more season til Davis hit free agency.



You think he would have been traded; I doubt it.


Huge draft error.
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deal
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 4:12 pm    Post subject:

j-dawg wrote:
2019 wrote:
Tatum would've been traded for AD
this



ASSUME - has a story behind it
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 4:15 pm    Post subject:

Offer of Jayson Tatum and a horde of first round picks was leveraged. I thought Anthony Davis was headed to Boston, like Kevin Garnett.
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j-dawg
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 4:19 pm    Post subject:

deal wrote:
j-dawg wrote:
2019 wrote:
Tatum would've been traded for AD
this



ASSUME - has a story behind it

Well, because that Laker team was just full of tradable blue chip prospects.. I guess I’m inclined to agree and say the Lakers should’ve just given them Ingram + Josh Hart for AD.. I mean, that would’ve been such a fair trade and one that I’m sure the Pelicans were very much willing to do…
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 4:56 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

Absolutely dead on about my thoughts about Fultz, Ball, and Tatum. But, Vecenie's comments on Tatum about "Wanting to be a great player" and having a great work ethic? THAT I wasn't expecting.

I'd bump him to two.


https://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=179786&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=9950
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 4:58 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
Lebron, BI and Tatum.
Don't they all need the ball in their hands (offensive initiators) to be at their highest productive selves?

That sounds like the logic the Portland Trail Blazers used to justify taking Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan in 1984.

Bobby Knight once said that one of his close friends was in the Blazers' front office and that he told that friend he had to draft Jordan.

The friend was like, "But we need a center."

Knight was like, "Then play Jordan at center."

Magic Johnson and the rest of the front office fell for the stupid Lonzo Ball hype, thinking that he would be a Hall of Famer and break Magic's records.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 4:58 pm    Post subject:

j-dawg wrote:
2019 wrote:
Tatum would've been traded for AD
this


And allow LAL to keep Hart and Kuzma.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 5:00 pm    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Lebron, BI and Tatum.
Don't they all need the ball in their hands (offensive initiators) to be at their highest productive selves?

That sounds like the logic the Portland Trail Blazers used to justify taking Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan in 1984.

Bobby Knight once said that one of his close friends was in the Blazers' front office and that he told that friend he had to draft Jordan.

The friend was like, "But we need a center."

Knight was like, "Then play Jordan at center."

Magic Johnson and the rest of the front office fell for the stupid Lonzo Ball hype, thinking that he would be a Hall of Famer and break Magic's records.



More recently, GSW choosing James Wiseman over LaMelo Ball.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 5:06 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:

Absolutely dead on about my thoughts about Fultz, Ball, and Tatum. But, Vecenie's comments on Tatum about "Wanting to be a great player" and having a great work ethic? THAT I wasn't expecting.

I'd bump him to two.


https://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=179786&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=9950


Kuzma, Hart and TB at 27, 30 and 42 is just ridiculous. They still had the best draft that year IMHO. I'm still high on both Kuz and Hart. With Kuz, it's about shot selection and playing a wee bit smarter so he can raise his efficiency. Hart post trade deadline put up 20/5/4 on 50/37/77 splits. His game is similar to Brunson's. And TB is a serviceable backup center.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 5:10 pm    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:

Absolutely dead on about my thoughts about Fultz, Ball, and Tatum. But, Vecenie's comments on Tatum about "Wanting to be a great player" and having a great work ethic? THAT I wasn't expecting.

I'd bump him to two.


https://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=179786&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=9950


Kuzma, Hart and TB at 27, 30 and 42 is just ridiculous. They still had the best draft that year IMHO. I'm still high on both Kuz and Hart. With Kuz, it's about shot selection and playing a wee bit smarter so he can raise his efficiency. Hart post trade deadline put up 20/5/4 on 50/37/77 splits. He's a Jalen Brunson clone. And TB is a serviceable backup center.


I didn't scout Kuzma, but you wouldn't believe the reaction from my teacher and the rest of the class while the NBA draft was happening and they were updating me on getting my guys. Even had Derrick White, Jalen Brunson, Josh Hart in that order. Even had Tony Bradley as the late 1st round pick too, until he got traded off. Thomas Bryant was pretty no brainer to me as well.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 5:21 pm    Post subject:

j-dawg wrote:
2019 wrote:
Tatum would've been traded for AD
this


Pretty much.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 5:21 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
j-dawg wrote:
2019 wrote:
Tatum would've been traded for AD
this


And allow LAL to keep Hart and Kuzma.

This is the most realistic upside in the hypthetical scenario in which we had drafted Jayson Tatum.

For anyone to suggest that the Lakers would’ve been able to keep Tatum is way off the mark. The Lakers would’ve traded for AD several months before they actually did if all NO wanted was Ingram. The media (and narrative around the league back then) was speculating that the Lakers didn’t have the capital to actually trade for AD. Everyone thought that we were trying to fleece NO even though we did put all of our eggs into that basket. In the end, we barely had enough in part because we lucked into getting the 4th pick in the draft. To suggest otherwise is just a revisionist perspective of what actually took place.

It didn’t matter if we had drafted Tatum, Ball or De’Aaron Fox for that matter. They were gonna be gone no matter what.


Last edited by j-dawg on Sat May 14, 2022 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 5:27 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Drafting is an inexact science. Nobody gets it right all the time. But like most of our problems, the blunder lies in our flawed process. Magic was so enamored and focused on Lonzo it felt like they didn’t really consider anyone else. A better process may have resulted in the same pick, but at least you’d be relying on an evaluation that was more sound.


Well said.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Was passing on Jayson Tatum the biggest draft blunder in the history of the franchise?

RashardA wrote:
A pretty straight forward question.

That one miscalculation cost the Lakers a true franchise player.

Not only a true franchise player but one who is a disciple of the greatest Laker to ever wear the uniform, Kobe Bryant.

The way it would have been a seamless transition is scary.

And to those who will respond with the "well he would have been traded for AD anyway so what does it matter?"

That just further solidifies how GOD awful the Magic/Rob front office has been when it comes to evaluating talent.

If this regime would have traded both BI and Tatum for a brittle Anthony Davis, they should never again in life be allowed near any team's front office.


How about 1999 draft Devean George over Andrei Kirilenko that may have extended our title run to include the 2003 title. AK47 in his prime was a true unicorn on defense with elite ability to defend the wing and protect the rim and would have fit at the 3 perfectly for the Shaq-Kobe teams. You give me a choice of prime Tatum vs prime Kirilenko, this is not as big of a whitewash as you may think. As a role player, Kirilenko is superior to Tatum, as a go-to scorer of course Tatum is better than Kirilenko

How about 2002 draft of bypassing Carlos Boozer for Kareem Rush when Power Forward had been our perennial weakness for years.

Or 2003 draft of bypassing Josh Howard for Brian Cook.

Actually the biggest miss for the Lakers in history would have been not drafting Gus Johnson in 1963 and selecting Roger Strickland. Not selecting Johnson the closest thing to Barkley and someone the Lakers considered cost the Lakers 2-3 titles during Jerry West's run as he said so himself


Last edited by 1995Lakers on Sat May 14, 2022 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 5:38 pm    Post subject:

Jokic was available.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 5:45 pm    Post subject:

LakersRGolden wrote:
Jokic was available.


True....THAT was a huge miss.....but so was Manu Ginobili. I think u can only compare with those players that were heavily considered at that spot at that point in time.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Was passing on Jayson Tatum the biggest draft blunder in the history of the franchise?

1995Lakers wrote:
RashardA wrote:
A pretty straight forward question.

That one miscalculation cost the Lakers a true franchise player.

Not only a true franchise player but one who is a disciple of the greatest Laker to ever wear the uniform, Kobe Bryant.

The way it would have been a seamless transition is scary.

And to those who will respond with the "well he would have been traded for AD anyway so what does it matter?"

That just further solidifies how GOD awful the Magic/Rob front office has been when it comes to evaluating talent.

If this regime would have traded both BI and Tatum for a brittle Anthony Davis, they should never again in life be allowed near any team's front office.


How about 1999 draft Devean George over Andrei Kirilenko that may have extended our title run to include the 2003 title. AK47 in his prime was a true unicorn on defense with elite ability to defend the wing and protect the rim and would have fit at the 3 perfectly for the Shaq-Kobe teams. You give me a choice of prime Tatum vs prime Kirilenko, this is not as big of a whitewash as you may think.

How about 2002 draft of bypassing Carlos Boozer for Kareem Rush when Power Forward had been our perennial weakness for years.

Or 2003 draft of bypassing Josh Howard for Brian Cook.

Actually the biggest miss for the Lakers in history would have been not drafting Gus Johnson in 1963 and selecting Roger Strickland. Not selecting Johnson the closest thing to Barkley and someone the Lakers considered cost the Lakers 2-3 titles during Jerry West's run as he said so himself


This is a good post. Lakers didn't prioritize the draft during the 3pt era because they mistakenly felt the main core (Fisher, Horry, Fox, etc) was good enough to 4-peat. The wheels fell off quickly, and the aging core was no match for a Spurs team with a young Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili. It's kind of interesting how current management made a similar mistake after trading for AD, thinking that draft picks wouldn't have value after the acquisition. Their overconfidence cost them in 02-03 and then in 20-21, 21-22. Shaq decided to get surgery on "company time" while Kobe was stuck carrying a relatively weak and aging Laker core. Same thing with AD, with Lebron carrying them. The lesson is to never slack on draft choices. You may hit it out of the park or not, but at least you have a chance to hit a homerun.
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